When did America cease to be the land of the forefathers?

It's still "government of the people, by the people and for the people". We don't work for politicians, they work for us. Americans got complacent and a bit lazy and during the last 100 years we relied on glitz disguised as news and hollywood disguised as reality. As soon as Americans learn to think again and understand the gift of the Constitution and freedom we will get back what we gave away.

Politicians represent us. We the people elect them. We live in a democracy with representative republican form of government.
 
It's still "government of the people, by the people and for the people". We don't work for politicians, they work for us.
Not according to the politicians (and the leftists who want to be subjects, not citizens).

I hate it when a House member calls himself "Congressman". It's like he doesn't want to be reminded he's a Representative and not a leader.
 
It's still "government of the people, by the people and for the people". We don't work for politicians, they work for us.
Not according to the politicians (and the leftists who want to be subjects, not citizens).

I hate it when a House member calls himself "Congressman". It's like he doesn't want to be reminded he's a Representative and not a leader.

is this when they are drinking?
 
It's still "government of the people, by the people and for the people". We don't work for politicians, they work for us.
Not according to the politicians (and the leftists who want to be subjects, not citizens).

I hate it when a House member calls himself "Congressman". It's like he doesn't want to be reminded he's a Representative and not a leader.

is this when they are drinking?
No.

Manny Pacquiao Sworn in: 'I Am Actually a Congressman'

IAmA Congressman Darrell Issa, Internet defender and techie. Ask away! : IAmA
 
Not according to the politicians (and the leftists who want to be subjects, not citizens).

I hate it when a House member calls himself "Congressman". It's like he doesn't want to be reminded he's a Representative and not a leader.

is this when they are drinking?
No.

Manny Pacquiao Sworn in: 'I Am Actually a Congressman'

IAmA Congressman Darrell Issa, Internet defender and techie. Ask away! : IAmA

It's a title. No on called themselves Congressman.
 
Yes, they did. Don't be stupid.

"I'm very excited. I was very overwhelmed today at the swearing in because this has been the culmination of a longtime dream of mine to be a public servant to my people," said Pacquiao, in an exclusive statement to FanHouse. "Now that I've been sworn in, the dream has been achieved. Now, I am actually a congressman."​
Good morning. I'm Congressman Darrell Issa from Vista, CA (near San Diego) by way of Cleveland, OH.​

"Representative" is the correct title.
 
Our forefathers set up a government to be ran by people as they are, not as they should be. There are a certain percentage of the people that are venal and crooked. There are some that are straight, but so ideoloigical that they cannot see any idea but their own. And there are the pragmaticists that just want to achieve certain goals. By setting up a government that took all of these crosscurrent in people into account, and used the antagonisms of the varied interests to keep the power of any one group in check, they created a government that has, and continues to, expand the freedom and social mobility of it's people.

And each generation has a fight over the meaning and desirability of that expansion.
 
It's still "government of the people, by the people and for the people". We don't work for politicians, they work for us. Americans got complacent and a bit lazy and during the last 100 years we relied on glitz disguised as news and hollywood disguised as reality. As soon as Americans learn to think again and understand the gift of the Constitution and freedom we will get back what we gave away.

More nonsense.

Americans have worked harder, have been more successful, and have achieved more in the last 100 years than any time previous. That success was based on a pragmatic blend of private and pubic sector efforts – and similar success for the upcoming 100 years is jeopardized by the ignorant reactionaryism exhibited by the likes of you and the OP.
 
Oh the dreams of the imaginary past when knights in shining armor, cowboys on white horses, or farmer Joe fighting for freedom, oh the bygone days of glory and brave souls - what hokum. I know you wingnuts don't like Howard Zinn but you should read his history, call it negative, call it whatever you like, but you cannot deny its realities.

Even George way back then realized your challenges to reality. "The unity of Government, which constitutes you one people, is also now dear to you. It is justly so; for it is a main pillar in the edifice of your real independence, the support of your tranquillity at home, your peace abroad; of your safety; of your prosperity; of that very Liberty, which you so highly prize. But as it is easy to foresee, that, from different causes and from different quarters, much pains will be taken, many artifices employed, to weaken in your minds the conviction of this truth; as this is the point in your political fortress against which the batteries of internal and external enemies will be most constantly and actively (though often covertly and insidiously) directed, it is of infinite moment, that you should properly estimate the immense value of your national Union to your collective and individual happiness; that you should cherish a cordial, habitual, and immovable attachment to it; accustoming yourselves to think and speak of it as of the Palladium of your political safety and prosperity; watching for its preservation with jealous anxiety; discountenancing whatever may suggest even a suspicion, that it can in any event be abandoned; and indignantly frowning upon the first dawning of every attempt to alienate any portion of our country from the rest, or to enfeeble the sacred ties which now link together the various parts." Quote DB :: Speeches :: George Washington :: George Washington's Farewell Address Speech


http://www.usmessageboard.com/history/214435-what-americans-were-sigh.html#post5003175


"Why Conservatives Can't Govern" by Alan Wolfe
 
Oh the dreams of the imaginary past when knights in shining armor, cowboys on white horses, or farmer Joe fighting for freedom, oh the bygone days of glory and brave souls - what hokum. I know you wingnuts don't like Howard Zinn but you should read his history, call it negative, call it whatever you like, but you cannot deny its realities.
Zinn's a liar. I know you like the taste of his bullshit, but it's still bullshit, and normal people don't want any of it.
 
The American Colonies were established by England with the goal of expanding the realm of the British Empire and increasing its wealth. The New World was teaming with untapped resources and proved to be a rich ground upon which agriculture and industry could be formed for the benefit of the Empire. The Colonies were established to obtain this wealth and send it back to England to be used by her citizens.

For nearly 150 years this continued until the Colonies threw off the tyrannical rule of the English king and Parliament in order to establish a new government for themselves. They based this government on the freedoms inherent to all men – life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The chief role of this government was to protect these freedoms for the common individual and establish a system whereby wrongs against these freedoms could be redressed. The Constitution lays down the goals of this government – establishing justice, insuring domestic tranquility, providing for the common defense, promoting the general welfare, and securing the blessings of liberty for present and future generations. This was the ultimate extent of the government and its sphere of authority. It was a limited, small government that left to the individual many responsibilities and choices about how to best pursue their own happiness.

For a while the government was able to do just this. But in looking at the modern American government one can see that the form of government established by the forefathers no longer exists in the modern world. The present government has extended its influence far beyond what the Constitution originally proposed as the obligations of the government into the Leviathan it is today. Our modern American government is not what the American forefathers designed it to be. This begs the question, when in American history did the American government cease to be the government laid down by the forefathers? What caused this change that pushed our government in the direction it is currently moving in away from individual responsibility and control toward more government control over individuals? Is liberty today the same as it was 200 years ago?

*yawn*
 
The American Colonies were established by England with the goal of expanding the realm of the British Empire and increasing its wealth. The New World was teaming with untapped resources and proved to be a rich ground upon which agriculture and industry could be formed for the benefit of the Empire. The Colonies were established to obtain this wealth and send it back to England to be used by her citizens.

For nearly 150 years this continued until the Colonies threw off the tyrannical rule of the English king and Parliament in order to establish a new government for themselves. They based this government on the freedoms inherent to all men – life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The chief role of this government was to protect these freedoms for the common individual and establish a system whereby wrongs against these freedoms could be redressed. The Constitution lays down the goals of this government – establishing justice, insuring domestic tranquility, providing for the common defense, promoting the general welfare, and securing the blessings of liberty for present and future generations. This was the ultimate extent of the government and its sphere of authority. It was a limited, small government that left to the individual many responsibilities and choices about how to best pursue their own happiness.

For a while the government was able to do just this. But in looking at the modern American government one can see that the form of government established by the forefathers no longer exists in the modern world. The present government has extended its influence far beyond what the Constitution originally proposed as the obligations of the government into the Leviathan it is today. Our modern American government is not what the American forefathers designed it to be. This begs the question, when in American history did the American government cease to be the government laid down by the forefathers? What caused this change that pushed our government in the direction it is currently moving in away from individual responsibility and control toward more government control over individuals? Is liberty today the same as it was 200 years ago?
Honestly it stopped in 1860, but not for the worse, for it ended many great blights left over from colonial eras, but at the expense of the rights of states. It stopped being for the better in 1901 with the inauguration of Teddy Roosevelt and many of his accomplishments based on 'public good' and 'international interventionism'. The concrete of this change set with Woodrow Wilson's presidency and his desire to rule and control people around the world, not serve them.
 
The Framer's idea was a totally dependent culture whose primary occupations are getting high and having sex?

That's a new one.
 
Zinn's a liar. I know you like the taste of his bullshit, but it's still bullshit, and normal people don't want any of it.

And that is all you wingnuts ever have as a response, reality is a lie when it doesn't agree with your partisan fantasy. How boring and empty you people are.

"In 'America: Who Really Pays The Taxes?', two investigative reporters with the Philadelphia Inquirer, Donald Barlett and James Steele, traced the path by which tax rates for the very rich got lower and lower. It was not the Republicans but the Democrats-the Kennedy-Johnson administrations-who, under the guise of "tax reform," first lowered the World War II-era rate of 91 percent on incomes over $400,000 a year to 70 percent. During the Carter Administration (though over his objections) Democrats and Republicans in Congress joined to give even more tax breaks to the rich.

The Reagan administration, with the help of Democrats in Congress, lowered the tax rate on the very rich to 50 percent and in 1986 a coalition of Republicans and Democrats sponsored another "tax reform" bill that lowered the top rate to 28 percent. Barlett and Steele noted that a schoolteacher, a factory worker, and a billionaire could all pay 28 percent. The idea of a "progressive" income in which the rich paid at higher rates than everyone else was now almost dead." from Howard Zinn 'A People's History of the United States"
 
The American Colonies were established by England with the goal of expanding the realm of the British Empire and increasing its wealth. The New World was teaming with untapped resources and proved to be a rich ground upon which agriculture and industry could be formed for the benefit of the Empire. The Colonies were established to obtain this wealth and send it back to England to be used by her citizens.

For nearly 150 years this continued until the Colonies threw off the tyrannical rule of the English king and Parliament in order to establish a new government for themselves. They based this government on the freedoms inherent to all men – life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The chief role of this government was to protect these freedoms for the common individual and establish a system whereby wrongs against these freedoms could be redressed. The Constitution lays down the goals of this government – establishing justice, insuring domestic tranquility, providing for the common defense, promoting the general welfare, and securing the blessings of liberty for present and future generations. This was the ultimate extent of the government and its sphere of authority. It was a limited, small government that left to the individual many responsibilities and choices about how to best pursue their own happiness.

For a while the government was able to do just this. But in looking at the modern American government one can see that the form of government established by the forefathers no longer exists in the modern world. The present government has extended its influence far beyond what the Constitution originally proposed as the obligations of the government into the Leviathan it is today. Our modern American government is not what the American forefathers designed it to be. This begs the question, when in American history did the American government cease to be the government laid down by the forefathers? What caused this change that pushed our government in the direction it is currently moving in away from individual responsibility and control toward more government control over individuals? Is liberty today the same as it was 200 years ago?

You're imagining a that the post revolutionary period in American history was a land of FREEDOM.

It most assuredly wasn't remotely a land of FREE MEN.

We're MUCH closer to the IDEALS set out by the Constiution NOW, than we were back THEN.
 
Zinn's a liar. I know you like the taste of his bullshit, but it's still bullshit, and normal people don't want any of it.

And that is all you wingnuts ever have as a response, reality is a lie when it doesn't agree with your partisan fantasy. How boring and empty you people are.
I repeat: Zinn's a liar. His "reality" is leftist fantasy. It's not real at all.

Enjoy your delusions.
 
The American Colonies were established by England with the goal of expanding the realm of the British Empire and increasing its wealth. The New World was teaming with untapped resources and proved to be a rich ground upon which agriculture and industry could be formed for the benefit of the Empire. The Colonies were established to obtain this wealth and send it back to England to be used by her citizens.

For nearly 150 years this continued until the Colonies threw off the tyrannical rule of the English king and Parliament in order to establish a new government for themselves. They based this government on the freedoms inherent to all men – life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The chief role of this government was to protect these freedoms for the common individual and establish a system whereby wrongs against these freedoms could be redressed. The Constitution lays down the goals of this government – establishing justice, insuring domestic tranquility, providing for the common defense, promoting the general welfare, and securing the blessings of liberty for present and future generations. This was the ultimate extent of the government and its sphere of authority. It was a limited, small government that left to the individual many responsibilities and choices about how to best pursue their own happiness.

For a while the government was able to do just this. But in looking at the modern American government one can see that the form of government established by the forefathers no longer exists in the modern world. The present government has extended its influence far beyond what the Constitution originally proposed as the obligations of the government into the Leviathan it is today. Our modern American government is not what the American forefathers designed it to be. This begs the question, when in American history did the American government cease to be the government laid down by the forefathers? What caused this change that pushed our government in the direction it is currently moving in away from individual responsibility and control toward more government control over individuals? Is liberty today the same as it was 200 years ago?

You're imagining a that the post revolutionary period in American history was a land of FREEDOM.

It most assuredly wasn't remotely a land of FREE MEN.

We're MUCH closer to the IDEALS set out by the Constiution NOW, than we were back THEN.
Not under Obama, we're not.
 

New Topics

Forum List

Back
Top