What's wrong with Unions?

[Charles_Main]

I don't see them making twice as much as the private sector. Have references? And once again, contracts are negotiated and agreed by both sides, not just one.

They don't make twice but its something like 30%-40% more. It was in the Wall Street Journal a few months ago. I was going to start a thread about it but didn't get around to it.

The problem with public sector unions is that the other side of the table is often on the same side of the union. The politicians have incentives to curry votes from government employees. So they give them what they want.

When you count benefits they do indeed make twice as much as their private sector Counter parts. There was a whole thread with links to this already on this board. not going to go looking for them again.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Go through this thread and see what your "Conservative Republicans" are saying about unions. Looks like they may not have a very high opinion of you.

thats their problem Dean.....AND they are not MY "Conservatives Republicans".....i bet i may be the only one here who actually works for the govt and knows what it would be like working for them if it wasnt Unionised.....lots of people think because you work for the Govt your well taken care of and have a good job........but it has nothing to do with the guys running the show.....if it was up to them you would be making minimum wage and thats it.... and they would say be lucky you have a fucking job.....some of the comments about unions here are true,including mine....but then there is a lot of bullshit too.....when you work in the PO you have to put up with ALOT of BULLSHIT from the management.....they get in the way while they are "managing"....the Union tries to keep them out of our way as much as possible so we can deliver the mail.....and they do a decent job of that....

 

[shintao]

This conservative isn't a fan of corruption. That's why.

Where is the corruption? Have a reference?

If we produced evidence of union corruption, would you come back and say "yes, as you say unions have corruption"? Or would you impugn the source, make sweeping generalizations, say the evidence doesnt cover every union that has ever existed from the beginning of time or just walk away?
If someone does the work, will you actually respond appropriately?

Who is "WE?" A research foundation? You can either prove your case or you cannot.

 

[shintao]

Hmm, sounds like the people on the draw bridge should be union, huh?

No. Sounds like your whiny ignorant ass needs to be on ignore.

I've challenged you numerous times with facts and requests for what would constitute an acceptable argument. Silence.
You are a troll. Buh bye.

Translation: I know I lost the argument on facts and on bullshit, so I should leave like a whipped dog with my tail between my legs. bow-wow.......

Notice who the troll is folks!! No answer from the pasture...............................silence...........

 

[shintao]

I don't see them making twice as much as the private sector. Have references? And once again, contracts are negotiated and agreed by both sides, not just one.

They don't make twice but its something like 30%-40% more. It was in the Wall Street Journal a few months ago. I was going to start a thread about it but didn't get around to it.

The problem with public sector unions is that the other side of the table is often on the same side of the union. The politicians have incentives to curry votes from government employees. So they give them what they want.

Ok, that sounds reasonable, for people we put our trust into to protect private information of ours and respond quickly to our requests, have a decent education, a history not mared in crime. We also pay our non-union legislatures, pages, etc. quite a bit of money as well.

The only way to solve the problem of government workers, is to turn them over to corporations that have no loyalty to America for your information or anything else the governement has. That wouldn't desolve unionization, just change the hands that get buttered in this capitalist society.

 

[Dr Grump]

Well, if the likes of Gautama et al really want to go back to the days where workers had no rights and the corporations had all the rights, they could lobby their congress critters and Senators to repeal all the labour laws pertaining to those specific outcomes.

However, before they do, they should experience those types of working conditions first hand. Take a trip to the Philippines, Indonesia, India, Pakistan and visit some of the factories that have little or no labour laws. Down here, we call them sweatshops. Dunno what you call them stateside....Why are they sweatshops? Because people work in unbearable heat, in atrocious conditions for little pay while their coporate masters get stinking rich.

 

[edthecynic]

Since you say it is crap, that proves it is absolutely true.
Thank you.

Here is an example of the pay scale for a software engineer by employer. Obviously government jobs do not pay double private sector jobs when you compare the SAME JOB in each sector. If you notice some private sector SW engineers earn more and some earn less but nowhere do gov SW engineers earn double the private sector!!!!

You only say it's crap because your MessiahRushie told you and you are STUPID enough to believe him.

Federal Worker Compensation Doubles Private Sector Salaries
August 10, 2010
RUSH: The average compensation 2009, federal civilian, meaning non-uniform military, is $123,049."* Of that $81,000 is salary, $41,000 is benefits.* Benefits are health care, pension, whatever the hell else the benefits are.* In the private sector, the amount is $61,000: $50,000 of it in salary and 10,000 in benefits.

hey Eddie....you were talking about how CONSERVATIVES determine pay.....i said BULLSHIT.....it had nothing to do with who makes how much.....they do it the same way Democrat big shots do it......here is your twisted post...
""The way the dishonest GOP think tanks generated that deliberately misleading stat was by comparing all jobs combined. In reality there is a very different mix of jobs in the government and private sectors.

Government jobs have more high paying white collar jobs and the private sector has more low paying blue collar jobs, so it is dishonest to compare total jobs between both sectors, which is exactly why CON$ use only that comparison. The only honest way to compare the two sectors is to compare the SAME JOB in one sector to the SAME JOB in the other sector, which dishonest CON$ will never do.""

and if what you say about the money White Collar guys make was true....the PMG would be making well into the millions for the kinda money the PO brings in.....he doesnt even hit a million.....the UPS guy makes 27-28 hr...i do 24.....

No, I was talking about how CON$ervative GOP think tanks generate phony stats like the one that claims that government jobs pay twice as much as private sector jobs. The chart I posted when comparing the SAME job in both sectors shows that the pay scale is pretty much the same.

You have unwittingly confirmed what I said, the GOP claim of government jobs paying double the private sector is bogus, with your own example.
Thank you.

 

[editec]

I am not sure why conservatives fear and dislike unions. It seems they operate in a conservative fashion, and continue building America and making it a better place. What's wrong with Unions?

Why did the KING often fear the other peers of the realm?

Because they are the ONLY people that can stand up to him.

So too with unions.

They are the ONLY thing that can stand up to BIG CAPITAL.

As they so clearly proved to do between about 1880 and 1960 or so.

But BIG CAPITAL has the hammer now.

Want to know what it's called?

FREE TRADE.

 

[The Rabbi]

Well, if the likes of Gautama et al really want to go back to the days where workers had no rights and the corporations had all the rights, they could lobby their congress critters and Senators to repeal all the labour laws pertaining to those specific outcomes.

However, before they do, they should experience those types of working conditions first hand. Take a trip to the Philippines, Indonesia, India, Pakistan and visit some of the factories that have little or no labour laws. Down here, we call them sweatshops. Dunno what you call them stateside....Why are they sweatshops? Because people work in unbearable heat, in atrocious conditions for little pay while their coporate masters get stinking rich.

When did workers "have no rights"? Workers agreed to work for prevailing wages and conditions at the time. It was entirely voluntary. The alternative was to go back to the farm and spend your time in back breaking dangerous labor with no guaranteed paycheck at the end.
Similarly in 3rd world countries, why do workers flock to these factories, even though conditions are poor by our standards? Because the alternatives are much worse.
Get your class envy crap back in your cranium where it belongs.

 

[Harry Dresden]

No, I was talking about how CON$ervative GOP think tanks generate phony stats like the one that claims that government jobs pay twice as much as private sector jobs. The chart I posted when comparing the SAME job in both sectors shows that the pay scale is pretty much the same.

You have unwittingly confirmed what I said, the GOP claim of government jobs paying double the private sector is bogus, with your own example.
Thank you.

Ed dont be such a dildo....when it comes to business and paying their workers, for you to think the Democratic heads of companies would not twist the facts to show how their workers get too much is pretty naive.....they both do it moron...

 

[edthecynic]

No, I was talking about how CON$ervative GOP think tanks generate phony stats like the one that claims that government jobs pay twice as much as private sector jobs. The chart I posted when comparing the SAME job in both sectors shows that the pay scale is pretty much the same.

You have unwittingly confirmed what I said, the GOP claim of government jobs paying double the private sector is bogus, with your own example.
Thank you.

Ed dont be such a dildo....when it comes to business and paying their workers, for you to think the Democratic heads of companies would not twist the facts to show how their workers get too much is pretty naive.....they both do it moron...

Put the bong down!
Do you even know where you are?

This has nothing to do with Dem or GOP heads of companies!!!

The pretend anti-government GOP THINK TANKS fabricated a stat that gov jobs pay double what the private sector pays. They did it dishonestly, as usual. That is what being discussed. When your head clears reread this thread.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Put the bong down!
Do you even know where you are?

This has nothing to do with Dem or GOP heads of companies!!!

The pretend anti-government GOP THINK TANKS fabricated a stat that gov jobs pay double what the private sector pays. They did it dishonestly, as usual. That is what being discussed. When your head clears reread this thread.

no it has nothing to do with it.....but yet you mention Conservative GOP think tanks.....why did you not mention Liberal DNP think tanks also?.....oh thats right ....they dont play that game.....

 

[The T]

Put the bong down!
Do you even know where you are?

This has nothing to do with Dem or GOP heads of companies!!!

The pretend anti-government GOP THINK TANKS fabricated a stat that gov jobs pay double what the private sector pays. They did it dishonestly, as usual. That is what being discussed. When your head clears reread this thread.

no it has nothing to do with it.....but yet you mention Conservative GOP think tanks.....why did you not mention Liberal DNP think tanks also?.....oh thats right ....they dont play that game.....

As a matter of course? Statists as edthecynic forget it's a two-way street. It's always their WAY or the Hiway.

 

[shintao]

It's always their WAY or the Hiway.

Why of course! Like you are either with us our way or against us the highway. Fact is the party of NO doesn't want to play..............

 

[edthecynic]

Put the bong down!
Do you even know where you are?

This has nothing to do with Dem or GOP heads of companies!!!

The pretend anti-government GOP THINK TANKS fabricated a stat that gov jobs pay double what the private sector pays. They did it dishonestly, as usual. That is what being discussed. When your head clears reread this thread.

no it has nothing to do with it.....but yet you mention Conservative GOP think tanks.....why did you not mention Liberal DNP think tanks also?.....oh thats right ....they dont play that game.....

Because this particular bit of disinformation was generated by the CON$ervative GOP think tanks. DUH

When and if you defend disinformation from a DNC think tank I'll nail you on that too!

 

[Harry Dresden]

When and if you defend disinformation from a DNC think tank I'll nail you on that too!

oh yea....im sure you will criticize the Left Ed.....that i would like to see....your like Dean....the left has NEVER has screwed this Country....

 

[SuMar]

Seniority.

Seniority is what's wrong with unions?

Seniority in unions? Not sure what you mean. There is pay scale difference between an apprentice and a journeyman.




Really? Why don't they deserve a job?





And does this happen among scabs? In otherwords, is it a common human behavior you are complaining about here? You would find that where ever two humans work together.

I've worked around companies that are union and from what I've seen, the ones with seniority are the ones that have the good work ethic and do their job.

So I assume you are referring to journeymen and apprentices on a job.

Actually the thing wrong with unions is that they are the ATM for the democratic party.

That is probably the most honest answer I will get on this thread. Now, ask yourself why that is true? Because the corporate leadership is the ATM of the Republican party. Now, ask yourself why that is true, and draw a conclusion to your two answers.

Let me ask you this...Why would the democrats be the ATM for the democratic party? The democrats are the ones who want the open borders allowing just anyone to enter this country. And also keeping jobs here in America as opposed to outsourcing (NAFTA). The unions were suppose to be about the American working man and the American dream.

 

[edthecynic]

When and if you defend disinformation from a DNC think tank I'll nail you on that too!

oh yea....im sure you will criticize the Left Ed.....that i would like to see....your like Dean....the left has NEVER has screwed this Country....

Like I said, when and if YOU defend disinformation from a DNC think tank like you defend disinformation from the GOP think tanks, I'll nail YOU on that too!

 

[Ragnar]

Nothing is "wrong" so long as one is free not to join one...

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/132233-open-shop-and-proud-of-it.html

... the results of nonunion labor can be pretty damn sweet.

 

[Charles_Main]

The funniest thing to me is How Obama said he would not listen to Special Interests and then rewards Unions at every turn. The person who has visited him at the WH the most times since taking office is the Head of the SEIU.

Unions are one of if not the Largest Special interest in this country. They represent only about 20% of American workers yet are treated like gods by the left.