What's wrong with this political philosophy?

DavidS

Anti-Tea Party Member
Sep 7, 2008
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New York, NY
A completely cashless/valueless society. No money, no wealth... people work as they need to in order to fulfill their needs. You're free to pursue whatever line of work you wish to - as all of your basic needs will be met to allow you to achieve a higher level of existence. Where you work because you want to, not because you have to. So what's wrong with this philosophy?



Our political theory stresses egalitarianism and the abolition of social hierarchy and class distinctions that arise from unequal wealth distribution, the abolition of capitalism and money, and the collective production and distribution of wealth by means of voluntary associations.


In our political theory, the state and property no longer exist. Each individual and group is free to contribute to production and to satisfy their needs based on their own choice. Systems of production and distribution are managed by their participants.


The abolition of wage labor is central to our political theory. With distribution of wealth being based on self-determined needs, people will be free to engage in whatever activities they find most fulfilling and will no longer have to engage in work for which they have neither the temperament nor the aptitude. We argue that there is no valid way of measuring the value of any one person's economic contributions because all wealth is a collective product of current and preceding generations.
We argue that any economic system based on wage labor and private property will require a coercive state apparatus to enforce property rights and to maintain the unequal economic relationships that will inevitably arise.


We reject the claim that wage labor is necessary because people are by "nature" lazy and selfish. They point out that even the so-called "idle rich" sometimes find useful things to do despite having all their needs satisfied by the labor of others.
We support our theory as a means for ensuring the greatest freedom and well-being for everyone, rather than only the wealthy and powerful. In this sense, our political theory is a profoundly egalitarian philosophy. We do not think that anyone has the right to be anyone else's boss.
 
Won't work, many jobs won't be done unless people get paid for them, and the money is transmuted into things they want or like.
 
Won't work, many jobs won't be done unless people get paid for them, and the money is transmuted into things they want or like.

Many jobs won't be relevant in a cashless society. And many new types of jobs will become relevant. People can't just sit around and do nothing while all of their needs such as food and shelter are being met.
 
A completely cashless/valueless society. No money, no wealth... people work as they need to in order to fulfill their needs. You're free to pursue whatever line of work you wish to - as all of your basic needs will be met to allow you to achieve a higher level of existence. Where you work because you want to, not because you have to.

Let us finally imagine, for a change, an association of free men, working with the means of production held in common, and expending their many different forms of labour-power in full self-awareness as one single social labour force.

...

The total product of our imagined association is a social product. One part of this product serves as a fresh means of production and remains social. But another part is consumed by the members of the association as a means of subsistence. This part must therefore be divided amongst them. The way this division is made will vary with the particular kind of social organization of production and the corresponding level of social development attained by the producers. We shall assume, but only for the sake of a parallel with the production of commodities, that the share of each individual producer in the means of subsistence is determined by his labour-time. Labour-time would in that case play a double part. Its appointment in accordance with a definite social plan maintains the correct proportion between the different functions of labour and the various needs of the associations. On the other hand, labour-time also serves as a measure of the part taken by each individual in the common labour, and of his share in the total product destined for individual consumption. The social relations of the individual producers, both towards their labour and the products of their labour, are here transparent in their simplicity, in production as well as in distribution.



Like that?
 
A completely cashless/valueless society. No money, no wealth... people work as they need to in order to fulfill their needs. You're free to pursue whatever line of work you wish to - as all of your basic needs will be met to allow you to achieve a higher level of existence. Where you work because you want to, not because you have to. So what's wrong with this philosophy?



Our political theory stresses egalitarianism and the abolition of social hierarchy and class distinctions that arise from unequal wealth distribution, the abolition of capitalism and money, and the collective production and distribution of wealth by means of voluntary associations.


In our political theory, the state and property no longer exist. Each individual and group is free to contribute to production and to satisfy their needs based on their own choice. Systems of production and distribution are managed by their participants.


The abolition of wage labor is central to our political theory. With distribution of wealth being based on self-determined needs, people will be free to engage in whatever activities they find most fulfilling and will no longer have to engage in work for which they have neither the temperament nor the aptitude. We argue that there is no valid way of measuring the value of any one person's economic contributions because all wealth is a collective product of current and preceding generations.
We argue that any economic system based on wage labor and private property will require a coercive state apparatus to enforce property rights and to maintain the unequal economic relationships that will inevitably arise.


We reject the claim that wage labor is necessary because people are by "nature" lazy and selfish. They point out that even the so-called "idle rich" sometimes find useful things to do despite having all their needs satisfied by the labor of others.
We support our theory as a means for ensuring the greatest freedom and well-being for everyone, rather than only the wealthy and powerful. In this sense, our political theory is a profoundly egalitarian philosophy. We do not think that anyone has the right to be anyone else's boss.

Sounds like Star Trek TNG to me. Work is it's own reward. People work to advance and they work towards their own betterment. I like it. Especially since everyone can go to college to better themselves. Poor people aren't kept down just because their parents were poor. Rich people aren't sent to the head of the class just cause their parents attended the college before them.

Everyone is actually equal and they each achieve according to their own means.
 
You do understand that money(cash) is a tool and value is something the beholder assigns. Of course, with the advent of merchants, the beholder is told not to ask for less than what is considered acceptable by the merchant!!

Also, even if BASIC NEED are met, the desire for more(want) will spur forward and entice people to overthrow such a system. Alas, it is also WANT that will encourage people to work at slave wages as we see in even the most ruthless of communists regimes. It is WANT that puts the prostitute on the streets of Scandanavian countries and cause riots to form in the capitals during economic down times. Want is the driver of crimes during economic Booms, during times when needs are met.

Want is the downfall of any Utopia. The fatal Human flaws of lust and greed. Until man can be successfully re-programmed to ignore his desires, the dreams of Idealists and their allies will never become a permanent situation. Their world like the temporal existance of a Moth. A winged creature that burns in its blinding ignorance of mankind!
 
Won't work, many jobs won't be done unless people get paid for them, and the money is transmuted into things they want or like.

Many jobs won't be relevant in a cashless society. And many new types of jobs will become relevant. People can't just sit around and do nothing while all of their needs such as food and shelter are being met.

Why not? They do it now. It's called welfare.
 
Whoa, there David... are you turning into some sort of Anarchist??

I was trying not to use keywords that would automatically make people think that this is a terrible idea and not even read it.

I'm also not saying I believe in this, but I'd like to know what other people believe what's wrong with a society where everyone works for the common good of each other?

Example: I'm a farmer - I love to farm. I create fruits and vegetables for all to eat, including myself. Why do I need money for this if all of my basic needs are being met?
 
Won't work, many jobs won't be done unless people get paid for them, and the money is transmuted into things they want or like.

Many jobs won't be relevant in a cashless society. And many new types of jobs will become relevant. People can't just sit around and do nothing while all of their needs such as food and shelter are being met.

Why not? They do it now. It's called welfare.

I don't think you understand. Welfare is money. This is no money. Not one person has money. Need a car? A basic car is free. Need a home? A house is free. Need doctors? They're free. Medicine? Free. Everything is free. People work to better themselves as human beings, not to earn money.
 
A completely cashless/valueless society. No money, no wealth... people work as they need to in order to fulfill their needs. You're free to pursue whatever line of work you wish to - as all of your basic needs will be met to allow you to achieve a higher level of existence. Where you work because you want to, not because you have to. So what's wrong with this philosophy?



Our political theory stresses egalitarianism and the abolition of social hierarchy and class distinctions that arise from unequal wealth distribution, the abolition of capitalism and money, and the collective production and distribution of wealth by means of voluntary associations.


In our political theory, the state and property no longer exist. Each individual and group is free to contribute to production and to satisfy their needs based on their own choice. Systems of production and distribution are managed by their participants.


The abolition of wage labor is central to our political theory. With distribution of wealth being based on self-determined needs, people will be free to engage in whatever activities they find most fulfilling and will no longer have to engage in work for which they have neither the temperament nor the aptitude. We argue that there is no valid way of measuring the value of any one person's economic contributions because all wealth is a collective product of current and preceding generations.
We argue that any economic system based on wage labor and private property will require a coercive state apparatus to enforce property rights and to maintain the unequal economic relationships that will inevitably arise.


We reject the claim that wage labor is necessary because people are by "nature" lazy and selfish. They point out that even the so-called "idle rich" sometimes find useful things to do despite having all their needs satisfied by the labor of others.
We support our theory as a means for ensuring the greatest freedom and well-being for everyone, rather than only the wealthy and powerful. In this sense, our political theory is a profoundly egalitarian philosophy. We do not think that anyone has the right to be anyone else's boss.

Sounds like Star Trek TNG to me. Work is it's own reward. People work to advance and they work towards their own betterment. I like it. Especially since everyone can go to college to better themselves. Poor people aren't kept down just because their parents were poor. Rich people aren't sent to the head of the class just cause their parents attended the college before them.

Everyone is actually equal and they each achieve according to their own means.

So you like that? You like that someone who works twice as hard as the next guy gets the same lifestyle as the next guy? You think a person who works 12 hours a day, 7 days a week deserves the same kind of healthcare, college and home that someone who is lazy and rarely works at all has?
 
A completely cashless/valueless society. No money, no wealth... people work as they need to in order to fulfill their needs. You're free to pursue whatever line of work you wish to - as all of your basic needs will be met to allow you to achieve a higher level of existence. Where you work because you want to, not because you have to. So what's wrong with this philosophy?



Our political theory stresses egalitarianism and the abolition of social hierarchy and class distinctions that arise from unequal wealth distribution, the abolition of capitalism and money, and the collective production and distribution of wealth by means of voluntary associations.


In our political theory, the state and property no longer exist. Each individual and group is free to contribute to production and to satisfy their needs based on their own choice. Systems of production and distribution are managed by their participants.


The abolition of wage labor is central to our political theory. With distribution of wealth being based on self-determined needs, people will be free to engage in whatever activities they find most fulfilling and will no longer have to engage in work for which they have neither the temperament nor the aptitude. We argue that there is no valid way of measuring the value of any one person's economic contributions because all wealth is a collective product of current and preceding generations.
We argue that any economic system based on wage labor and private property will require a coercive state apparatus to enforce property rights and to maintain the unequal economic relationships that will inevitably arise.


We reject the claim that wage labor is necessary because people are by "nature" lazy and selfish. They point out that even the so-called "idle rich" sometimes find useful things to do despite having all their needs satisfied by the labor of others.
We support our theory as a means for ensuring the greatest freedom and well-being for everyone, rather than only the wealthy and powerful. In this sense, our political theory is a profoundly egalitarian philosophy. We do not think that anyone has the right to be anyone else's boss.


Ahh Utopia... she's simply beautiful in the spring...

What's wrong with it, is it rejects human nature... but if you're planning on implementing this, on those who are NOT humans, I'd say go for it.

Otherwise, if you're limited to human beings, it's a non-starter.

Human's aren't auotomotons... people need pressure, they need impetus, a reason for being; a reason for doing and where such is not present, people tend to languish.

Now what you've described... "You're free to pursue whatever line of work you wish to - as all of your basic needs will be met to allow you to achieve a higher level of existence." is prison... anyone interested in 15-20 to explore your awakening? All your basic needs are met; food, shelter, clothing... thus freeing you to pursue whatever work you like, as long as your desires aren't beyond the scope of that system which provides for those basic needs...

See the problem? My basic needs extend well beyond what prison provides in terms of everything from food UP and that HOUSING? Forgedaboudit!

It's an untenable notion which would never have my compliance and without compliance it's dead... thus we begin to see how such a system must induce compliance and it's at THAT point where we begin to see the whole "PRISON" thing begin to take shape.
 
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You do understand that money(cash) is a tool and value is something the beholder assigns. Of course, with the advent of merchants, the beholder is told not to ask for less than what is considered acceptable by the merchant!!

Also, even if BASIC NEED are met, the desire for more(want) will spur forward and entice people to overthrow such a system. Alas, it is also WANT that will encourage people to work at slave wages as we see in even the most ruthless of communists regimes. It is WANT that puts the prostitute on the streets of Scandanavian countries and cause riots to form in the capitals during economic down times. Want is the driver of crimes during economic Booms, during times when needs are met.

Want is the downfall of any Utopia. The fatal Human flaws of lust and greed. Until man can be successfully re-programmed to ignore his desires, the dreams of Idealists and their allies will never become a permanent situation. Their world like the temporal existance of a Moth. A winged creature that burns in its blinding ignorance of mankind!

Mmmmmm MAN! Those reprogrammed folks sound like a REAL HOOT!
 
You do understand that money(cash) is a tool and value is something the beholder assigns. Of course, with the advent of merchants, the beholder is told not to ask for less than what is considered acceptable by the merchant!!

Also, even if BASIC NEED are met, the desire for more(want) will spur forward and entice people to overthrow such a system. Alas, it is also WANT that will encourage people to work at slave wages as we see in even the most ruthless of communists regimes. It is WANT that puts the prostitute on the streets of Scandanavian countries and cause riots to form in the capitals during economic down times. Want is the driver of crimes during economic Booms, during times when needs are met.

Want is the downfall of any Utopia. The fatal Human flaws of lust and greed. Until man can be successfully re-programmed to ignore his desires, the dreams of Idealists and their allies will never become a permanent situation. Their world like the temporal existance of a Moth. A winged creature that burns in its blinding ignorance of mankind!

Let's say my dream passion is to create TVs. I run a company that creates them. I give them away to anyone who wants them.

Any conceivable product you can think of in our current society, from mansions to leather seating to 50" screen 3-D TV's, to anything - is met. Of course, there is government oversight - making sure the products we buy are safe.
 
For one there's no incentive to work for anyone other than yourself, and it's unlikely that everyone can provide everything they want or need for themselves. You talked about a free car, but who's going to build it? Why would somebody build a car for me for free, and why would they build it for me particularly? Same with the free house.
 

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