What's with some on the right and purity?

[code1211]

Say what you will but we have had threads here about how liberals don't even like calling themselves liberals but if somehow conservatism could be brewed into an energy drink it would fly off the shelves.

I don't really care about what people call themselves - other than the fact that progressives lie and pretend they're liberals.

But... you did prove my point. You claim 'conservatism' is practically a religion on the right and completely ignore the exact same issue on the left. Therefore, this thread is more about your own inability to see the flaws on your 'side' and, as usual, over-emphasis the issues on the right.

Again, I believe it is more prevalent on the right ... I did not ignore the exact issue on the left ... I'm talking about how it is MORE prevalent on the right, in my opinion, not that it doesn't exist on the left. I've been very clear about this so I don't understand what you are missing.

Just out of curiosity, who was the last Domocrat White House appointed Judge or Justice who demonstrated in previous decisions and publications a strong pro life bias?

 

[code1211]

It would be nice if the purists...formerly the moral majority and now the teapartiers...would split the GOP and leave the sensible Republicans (actual conservatives) to rebuild the party.

I think the Moral majority was a Pat Robertson thingy and was concerned about Social Issues. Fiscal issues were either ignored or very unimportant.

The TEA Party (Taxed Enough Already) is more a creature of Fiscal Conservativism. Social issues are mentioned, but, who cares?

I never identified with the Moral Majority and I feel a strong Affinity with the TEA party. Members of one group are not automatically members of the ohter. Grouping people into groups you hate leads to you not knowing who it is you hate.

Must be confusing.

 

[code1211]

and liberalism or 'progressivism' isn't? come now.

I think it would be interesting to take 100 self described liberals and 100 self described conservatives and ask them to define their respective ideologies and see which group has a more uniform set of answers.

I doubt many on either side could form an intelligent answer


Hell, how many self-described Liberals even know what Liberalism really is? And those self-described conservatives? Conservatism isn't an ideology- it simply means preference for the status quo or status quo ante, either as pertains to a given matter or as a general trend in thought [or lack thereof].

Few on either side could name their ideology or sum up their beliefs, let alone describe in brief how they want to see a government arranged or what actual changes they'd see put beyond the current talking points.

Cut spending to 2008 levels and freeze it there. Cut back all wages to 2008 levels at the federal level for all elected, appointed or hired employees and freeze it there. Insitute a hiring freeze effective RFN. Outsource everything. No budget overruns. If the cash runs runs out, shut down the department. Review budget attainment quarterly to avoid an idiot from shutting down a critical function.

Mail delivery to all addresses reduced to 3 days weekly. Cancel all new weapons systems.

Every department has to be re-authorized every year. The Cuts in the budget for every department can be avoided by Congressional vote. No increase will be allowed. Any department that exceeds its budget will carry automatic termination for the head of that department.

My ideology: Don't spend more than you collect. Balance the budget. Get the Hell out of the way and let the business of America do business.

 

[code1211]

The Tea Party is a conservative movement within the republican party. It doesn't speak for the republican party. The term "purity" is offensive, possibly deliberately so. Ever see a democrat that didn't toe the line about the abortion issue? Joe Lieberman was the democrat VP candidate and they threw him out of the party when he didn't "toe the line" about the war in Iraq.

"Ever see a democrat that didn't toe the line about the abortion issue?"

yes.

"Joe Lieberman was the democrat VP candidate and they threw him out of the party when he didn't "toe the line" about the war in Iraq."


it's hard to choose, from so many stupid statements made by so many deranged people on this board..

but this is certainly a candidate for STUPIDEST STATEMENT EVER MADE on t his board!

congratulations!

lieberman LEFT the party on his own and became a conservative-leaning independent


and the OP specifically admitted that there are, indeed, democrats and liberals who "toe the party line"

his/her point was that it seems to be MORE PREVALENT amongst conservatives and republicans...

hence; the term RINO is quite familiar to us all while the term DINO is NOT often used

stop being stupid

tow

not toe

I vote for "toe".

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I have observed that there are those on the right who are often measuring one another based on some idea of what a "real" conservative is ... the term RINO is given to Republicans who don't toe the party line enough.

I'm sure this exists on some level with the left but it isn't nearly as prevelant as is on the right.

What gives?

Really? How about Zel Miller and Lieberman? I mean 4 years after running as the parties Vice President on the National Ticket the party kicked Lieberman to the curb.

I know ... like I said ... I'm sure this exists on some level with the left but it isn't nearly as prevalent as is on the right.

Really? Name the high profile Republican the Republicans basically kicked out of the Party.

 

[Article 15]

Really? How about Zel Miller and Lieberman? I mean 4 years after running as the parties Vice President on the National Ticket the party kicked Lieberman to the curb.

I know ... like I said ... I'm sure this exists on some level with the left but it isn't nearly as prevalent as is on the right.

Really? Name the high profile Republican the Republicans basically kicked out of the Party.

That's a pretty silly question considering the Tea Party challenged and beat out several incumbent Republicans in 2010 ... in favor of the ... wait for it ... more conservative candidate.

 

[JBeukema]

not tow...it's TOE as in "toe the line"...an idiomatic expression meaning to conform to a rule or standard

how much can you tow with your big toe?

The expression is "toe the line". Not "tow the line"

Toe the line - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I prefer to use the line to tow a trailer- or to drag political opponents behind the truck

 

[JBeukema]

I think it would be interesting to take 100 self described liberals and 100 self described conservatives and ask them to define their respective ideologies and see which group has a more uniform set of answers.

I doubt many on either side could form an intelligent answer


Hell, how many self-described Liberals even know what Liberalism really is? And those self-described conservatives? Conservatism isn't an ideology- it simply means preference for the status quo or status quo ante, either as pertains to a given matter or as a general trend in thought [or lack thereof].

Few on either side could name their ideology or sum up their beliefs, let alone describe in brief how they want to see a government arranged or what actual changes they'd see put beyond the current talking points.

Cut spending to 2008 levels and freeze it there

Congrats, you've solved nothing

. Cut back all wages to 2008 levels at the federal level for all elected, appointed or hired employees and freeze it there

Congrats, you've solved nothing

. Insitute a hiring freeze effective RFN. Outsource everything.

If the cash runs runs out, shut down the department.

I'm sure the criminals will appreciate there being no LEOs

Every department has to be re-authorized every year.

the concept of feasibility is alien to you, isn't it?

The Cuts in the budget for every department can be avoided by Congressional vote. No increase will be allowed.

congrats, you've still not addressed the problem

Any department that exceeds its budget will carry automatic termination for the head of that department.

unforeseen never happen?

My ideology: Don't spend more than you collect. Balance the budget.

Great talking points. Please list your cuts. How much? Where?

be specific

Get the Hell out of the way and let the business of America do business.

America is a republic, not a corporation

and getting out of the way of business sounds a lot like a return to flaming rivers

are talking points and political slogans all you have?

 

[JBeukema]

I know ... like I said ... I'm sure this exists on some level with the left but it isn't nearly as prevalent as is on the right.

Really? Name the high profile Republican the Republicans basically kicked out of the Party.

That's a pretty silly question considering the Tea Party challenged and beat out several incumbent Republicans in 2010

No, it didn't

every self-proclaimed teabagger ran as a Republican

there is no 'tea party'

just the Republican base coming out of the woodwork

 

[code1211]

I doubt many on either side could form an intelligent answer


Hell, how many self-described Liberals even know what Liberalism really is? And those self-described conservatives? Conservatism isn't an ideology- it simply means preference for the status quo or status quo ante, either as pertains to a given matter or as a general trend in thought [or lack thereof].

Few on either side could name their ideology or sum up their beliefs, let alone describe in brief how they want to see a government arranged or what actual changes they'd see put beyond the current talking points.

Cut spending to 2008 levels and freeze it there

Congrats, you've solved nothing
Congrats, you've solved nothing




I'm sure the criminals will appreciate there being no LEOs



the concept of feasibility is alien to you, isn't it?

congrats, you've still not addressed the problem

unforeseen never happen?

My ideology: Don't spend more than you collect. Balance the budget.

Great talking points. Please list your cuts. How much? Where?
be specific

Get the Hell out of the way and let the business of America do business.

America is a republic, not a corporation

and getting out of the way of business sounds a lot like a return to flaming rivers

are talking points and political slogans all you have?

To any true Liberal, cutting spending is a foreign concept and it's not surprising that you simply do not understand it. There is an old saying in business that the amount of time required to accomplish any task expands or contracts to fit the amount of time available to accomplish that task. The same is true of money, FTE's or equipment.

In the typical LIBERAL TALKING POINT, you ask me to define where and how much the cuts should be. Okay, here it is:

The 2008 budget was 2.9 Trillion dollars.

The 2010 Federal expenditures are projected to be 3.55 Trillion.

Since no budget was approved by the Congress, it's difficult to call this a budget. On its face, this is gross neglect of responsibility and utter job abandonment by the Democrat sloths who refused to do the work they were charged to perform.

But, I digress.

Where should the cuts occur? In the Federal Expenditures.

How much? .65 Trillion dollars.

There are people who go to work every day and their jobs are to accomplish tasks with the available funds. In the private sector, this is done on a daily basis. In government, this is neglected on a daily basis. This is criminal in its scope and represents the kind of utter incompetence that should be embarrassing, but somehow is just accepted, perhaps encouraged, by people like you.

If the mangers of the various agencies and departments cannot figure out how to accomplish the cuts, bring in people who can. This is not a game. This is not impossible. Anyone who is reading this who has had the same job for the last three years knows that he or she is working harder for the same pay unless that person is a government worker in which case they are doing the same job for more pay.

Every cost from car rental to donuts for meetings to retreats to office supplies to office cleaning to expense accounts to remodeling to overtime to wage rate increases to benefits to pensions to paid time off to any theng at all that costs money needs to be reassessed.

This cannot be done from 35 thousand feet. It has to be done by the guy who approves the cash. At every level, every bit of every dollar needs to be checked and re-checked and re-approved or stopped. Re-authorizing every agency and department annually is probably wrong. Re-authorizing every employee and every desk is how this must be done.

Unlike a Liberal, I don't presume to to know where the waste is. I do however know that we got the job done in 2008 with a given amount of money. The collections have gone down since then and the spending has gone up. What's wrong with this picture?

This is no longer a theoretical brain teaser. The problem is here and now and pretending it's just too hard to figure out is not going to solve it.

 

[Cuyo]

Cut spending to 2008 levels and freeze it there

Congrats, you've solved nothing
Congrats, you've solved nothing




I'm sure the criminals will appreciate there being no LEOs



the concept of feasibility is alien to you, isn't it?

congrats, you've still not addressed the problem

unforeseen never happen?

Great talking points. Please list your cuts. How much? Where?
be specific

Get the Hell out of the way and let the business of America do business.

America is a republic, not a corporation

and getting out of the way of business sounds a lot like a return to flaming rivers

are talking points and political slogans all you have?

To any true Liberal, cutting spending is a foreign concept and it's not surprising that you simply do not understand it. There is an old saying in business that the amount of time required to accomplish any task expands or contracts to fit the amount of time available to accomplish that task. The same is true of money, FTE's or equipment.

In the typical LIBERAL TALKING POINT, you ask me to define where and how much the cuts should be. Okay, here it is:

The 2008 budget was 2.9 Trillion dollars.

The 2010 Federal expenditures are projected to be 3.55 Trillion.

Since no budget was approved by the Congress, it's difficult to call this a budget. On its face, this is gross neglect of responsibility and utter job abandonment by the Democrat sloths who refused to do the work they were charged to perform.

But, I digress.

Where should the cuts occur? In the Federal Expenditures.

How much? .65 Trillion dollars.

There are people who go to work every day and their jobs are to accomplish tasks with the available funds. In the private sector, this is done on a daily basis. In government, this is neglected on a daily basis. This is criminal in its scope and represents the kind of utter incompetence that should be embarrassing, but somehow is just accepted, perhaps encouraged, by people like you.

If the mangers of the various agencies and departments cannot figure out how to accomplish the cuts, bring in people who can. This is not a game. This is not impossible. Anyone who is reading this who has had the same job for the last three years knows that he or she is working harder for the same pay unless that person is a government worker in which case they are doing the same job for more pay.

Every cost from car rental to donuts for meetings to retreats to office supplies to office cleaning to expense accounts to remodeling to overtime to wage rate increases to benefits to pensions to paid time off to any theng at all that costs money needs to be reassessed.

This cannot be done from 35 thousand feet. It has to be done by the guy who approves the cash. At every level, every bit of every dollar needs to be checked and re-checked and re-approved or stopped. Re-authorizing every agency and department annually is probably wrong. Re-authorizing every employee and every desk is how this must be done.

Unlike a Liberal, I don't presume to to know where the waste is. I do however know that we got the job done in 2008 with a given amount of money. The collections have gone down since then and the spending has gone up. What's wrong with this picture?

This is no longer a theoretical brain teaser. The problem is here and now and pretending it's just too hard to figure out is not going to solve it.

It's the Economy, stupid.

 

[goldcatt]

To any true Liberal, cutting spending is a foreign concept and it's not surprising that you simply do not understand it. There is an old saying in business that the amount of time required to accomplish any task expands or contracts to fit the amount of time available to accomplish that task. The same is true of money, FTE's or equipment.

In the typical LIBERAL TALKING POINT, you ask me to define where and how much the cuts should be. Okay, here it is:

The 2008 budget was 2.9 Trillion dollars.

The 2010 Federal expenditures are projected to be 3.55 Trillion.

Since no budget was approved by the Congress, it's difficult to call this a budget. On its face, this is gross neglect of responsibility and utter job abandonment by the Democrat sloths who refused to do the work they were charged to perform.

But, I digress.

Where should the cuts occur? In the Federal Expenditures.

How much? .65 Trillion dollars.

There are people who go to work every day and their jobs are to accomplish tasks with the available funds. In the private sector, this is done on a daily basis. In government, this is neglected on a daily basis. This is criminal in its scope and represents the kind of utter incompetence that should be embarrassing, but somehow is just accepted, perhaps encouraged, by people like you.

If the mangers of the various agencies and departments cannot figure out how to accomplish the cuts, bring in people who can. This is not a game. This is not impossible. Anyone who is reading this who has had the same job for the last three years knows that he or she is working harder for the same pay unless that person is a government worker in which case they are doing the same job for more pay.

Every cost from car rental to donuts for meetings to retreats to office supplies to office cleaning to expense accounts to remodeling to overtime to wage rate increases to benefits to pensions to paid time off to any theng at all that costs money needs to be reassessed.

This cannot be done from 35 thousand feet. It has to be done by the guy who approves the cash. At every level, every bit of every dollar needs to be checked and re-checked and re-approved or stopped. Re-authorizing every agency and department annually is probably wrong. Re-authorizing every employee and every desk is how this must be done.

Unlike a Liberal, I don't presume to to know where the waste is. I do however know that we got the job done in 2008 with a given amount of money. The collections have gone down since then and the spending has gone up. What's wrong with this picture?

This is no longer a theoretical brain teaser. The problem is here and now and pretending it's just too hard to figure out is not going to solve it.

You highlight the problem beautifully. Nobody, but nobody, wants to take responsibility for naming a budget item they actually want to cut or by how much. Which Federal Expenditures? There are literally millions of line items. Which ones would you cut? How would you identify them?

Until there's an actual plan on what spending to cut or even a method for identifying what to cut, it's all just more talk with nothing to back it up.

For myself, I propose these people take their time and go through that monster line by physical line, looking first for things like outdated or redundant programs and obvious pork and cutting those to get the easy stuff most people would agree is waste out of the way for at least that amount of immediate savings. Start with Ag at the top of the alphabet and go straight down the line, every word, no sacred cows. Millions for studies on the effects of cable television watching on vegetarian alpaca farmers named Fred who have seventeen tattoos? Gone, no problem, immediate small results that add up fast. Once identified they can dispense with a few dozen of these a day, at least. Then go back and argue the big stuff.

While half of the staffer rats are working on that, the other half can be examining the procurement process including and ESPECIALLY DoD and working on a way to change the system to make it more transparent, streamlined and competitive. Also go talk to the people actually wearing the uniform to see what they need, what works, and what doesn't. Nobody knows the real needs and the real waste like the front line in any organization. As one example, what $300 tools never get used while the servicemen buy themselves a $5 replacement that works better?

Doing it right will take time and actual work and it's not at all sexy for the 24/7/365 perpetual campaign cycle. It's not like making a show of reading the constitution for the cameras while the members read the paper, text and pick their noses. Which means it won't happen. If we're really, really "lucky" we'll get a couple of knee-jerk pieces of crap pandering to the base without looking at any of the unintended consequences of slapping a band-aid on the problem, and a few more pieces of corporate welfare written by corporate lobbyists and touted as "savings" or better yet, "reform".

But hey, I'm not a conservative, what do I know?

 

[editec]

I have observed that there are those on the right who are often measuring one another based on some idea of what a "real" conservative is ... the term RINO is given to Republicans who don't toe the party line enough.

I'm sure this exists on some level with the left but it isn't nearly as prevelant as is on the right.

What gives?

Its a who's got the biggest ideological dick contest.

And yeah, the lefties do the same thing.

Well I don't know why I came here tonight,
I got the feeling that something ain't right,
I'm so scared in case I fall off my chair,
And I'm wondering how I'll get down the stairs,
Clowns to the left of me,
Jokers to the right, here I am,
Stuck in the middle with you.

Yes I'm stuck in the middle with you,
And I'm wondering what it is I should do,
It's so hard to keep this smile from my face,
Losing control, yeah, I'm all over the place,
Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right,
Here I am, stuck in the middle with you.

Well you started out with nothing,
And you're proud that you're a self made man,
And your friends, they all come crawlin,
Slap you on the back and say,
Please.... Please.....

Trying to make some sense of it all,
But I can see that it makes no sense at all,
Is it cool to go to sleep on the floor,
'Cause I don't think that I can take anymore
Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right,
Here I am, stuck in the middle with you.

Well you started out with nothing,
And you're proud that you're a self made man,
And your friends, they all come crawlin,
Slap you on the back and say,
Please.... Please.....

Well I don't know why I came here tonight,
I got the feeling that something ain't right,
I'm so scared in case I fall off my chair,
And I'm wondering how I'll get down the stairs,
Clowns to the left of me,
Jokers to the right, here I am,
Stuck in the middle with you,
Yes I'm stuck in the middle with you,
Stuck in the middle with you.

Stealers Wheel

 

[JBeukema]

To any true Liberal, cutting spending is a foreign concept

So you don't know what Liberalism even is. Par for the course.

and it's not surprising that you simply do not understand it

O RLY?

http://www.usmessageboard.com/scien...h-the-year-in-obvious-scientific-studies.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/145606-weekends-without-hunger-act.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/145447-defense-spending.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/energy/145448-corn-ethanol-subsidies.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/145449-farm-subsidies.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/145445-amtrak.html

In the typical LIBERAL TALKING POINT

. Okay, here it is:

The 2008 budget was 2.9 Trillion dollars.

The 2010 Federal expenditures are projected to be 3.55 Trillion.

Since no budget was approved by the Congress, it's difficult to call this a budget. On its face, this is gross neglect of responsibility and utter job abandonment by the Democrat sloths who refused to do the work they were charged to perform.

Ah, sweet partisan hackery...

I see a lot of words and no answer

Unlike a Liberal, I don't presume to to know where the waste is.

Here are a few examples

The military of the United States is deployed in more than 150[1] countries around the world, with more than 369,000 of its 1,580,255[2] active-duty personnel serving outside the United States and its territories. Many of these personnel are still located at installations activated during the Cold War, by which the US government sought to counter the Soviet Union in the aftermath of World War II.

United States military deployments - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/145606-weekends-without-hunger-act.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/145447-defense-spending.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/energy/145448-corn-ethanol-subsidies.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/145449-farm-subsidies.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/145445-amtrak.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/race-relations-racism/146155-justify-these-racist-programs.html

There is surely much more to be found

I do however know that we got the job done in 2008 with a given amount of money

Fiscal 2008 budget deficit seen about $400 billion | Reuters

 

[Mr. Shaman]

What's with some on the right and purity?

It's just one more "conservative"

MARKETING-$CAM!!!


​

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Say what you will but we have had threads here about how liberals don't even like calling themselves liberals but if somehow conservatism could be brewed into an energy drink it would fly off the shelves.

Don't worry your little pointy head about it, you and Jake have Detroit, Newark, NYC with a $4B shortfall and can't even clear snow off the streets, 10% national unemployment, record debt deficits and poverty. You run on your record, we'll run on ours.

Omg, you are that stupid. As if the underlying problems didn't exist until 1-20-09.

You and Obama run on your ideas, we're going to run on ours. Best thing is that we get to run against Obama, Reid and Pelosi again.

Magic 8 Ball says: I see Dems losing another 50 seats November 2012, the POTUS, the Senate and 10 more state houses.

See you again in Nov 2012

 

[Cuyo]

Don't worry your little pointy head about it, you and Jake have Detroit, Newark, NYC with a $4B shortfall and can't even clear snow off the streets, 10% national unemployment, record debt deficits and poverty. You run on your record, we'll run on ours.

Omg, you are that stupid. As if the underlying problems didn't exist until 1-20-09.

You and Obama run on your ideas, we're going to run on ours. Best thing is that we get to run against Obama, Reid and Pelosi again.

Magic 8 Ball says: I see Dems losing another 50 seats November 2012, the POTUS, the Senate and 10 more state houses.

See you again in Nov 2012

If you win, it will be nothing to be proud of. The ideologues advocating for the rich will once again have succeeded in tricking a nation of mental midgets into voting against their own interests.

And that's the way it is on 12-31-2010.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Omg, you are that stupid. As if the underlying problems didn't exist until 1-20-09.

You and Obama run on your ideas, we're going to run on ours. Best thing is that we get to run against Obama, Reid and Pelosi again.

Magic 8 Ball says: I see Dems losing another 50 seats November 2012, the POTUS, the Senate and 10 more state houses.

See you again in Nov 2012

If you win, it will be nothing to be proud of. The ideologues advocating for the rich will once again have succeeded in tricking a nation of mental midgets into voting against their own interests.

Hell....it's already developing!!

Where's John Boner....and, The DICK; Armey???????

*

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Omg, you are that stupid. As if the underlying problems didn't exist until 1-20-09.

You and Obama run on your ideas, we're going to run on ours. Best thing is that we get to run against Obama, Reid and Pelosi again.

Magic 8 Ball says: I see Dems losing another 50 seats November 2012, the POTUS, the Senate and 10 more state houses.

See you again in Nov 2012

If you win, it will be nothing to be proud of. The ideologues advocating for the rich will once again have succeeded in tricking a nation of mental midgets into voting against their own interests.

And that's the way it is on 12-31-2010.

Yes, keeping you Socialist fuckers out of power is "Voting against our own interests".

Charming

Oh and Happy New Year

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I may have to have Mr Shaman as the only person on my ignore list for the New Year. It's not for what he says either, idiots make me laugh, it's the annoying center post, big red letter, 3rd grade nonsense