What's the Difference between Socialists and Communists?

[Sunni Man]

OK.......Then explain the difference to all of us Oldguy??

 

[SniperFire]

Communism v. Fascism?

Chocolate or vanilla?

[youtube]J_uC0wy_O90[/youtube]

 

[daveman]

Hmmm...

Communism: Centrally planned economies, military dictatorship, social stratification via political affiliation, vast propaganda machines with strict censorship, oppressive police state, and concentration/slave labor camps (if not summary execution) for dissenters and other "undesirables".

Fascism: Centrally planned economies, military dictatorship, social stratification via political affiliation, vast propaganda machines with strict censorship, oppressive police state, and concentration/slave labor camps (if not summary execution) for dissenters and other "undesirables".


Yup...There's a whooooole lotta difference between those two forms of authoritarian tyranny!

You're confusing an economic system with totalitarianism. The supposition is that neither economic model can exist outside a repressive government and that's not so.

Don't feel bad, though. Most people don't know the difference.

Really? Communism and fascism CAN exist outside a repressive government?

What do you do with the people who don't want to play along?

 

[Desperado]

Socialists = Communist Lite

 

[regent]

A few quickies that might invite research and criticism:


Under communism there is government as people think of governments.
Under communism there is no money.
Under communism there are no classes.
Under communism there are no taxes.
Socialism is bad except Marx's Scientific Socialism which prepares people for communism.
Marx opposed trade unions.
Marx opposed revolutions.

Who defines communism, Marx. Lenin, Stalin?

 

[Oldguy]

OK.......Then explain the difference to all of us Oldguy??

Communism is nothing more than an extreme version of Socialism in which the state owns all the means of production: land, labor and capital. In theory, the state is run by the masses for the good of all: From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs. There is no private property because everything belongs to The People. Naturally, that falls apart because of human nature and communism, as practiced in the 20th and 21st centuries, did indeed come complete with repressive and dictatorial governments BECAUSE of human nature.

We don't know of communism can co-exist with a freely elected, democratic government because the only time a people voluntarily voted in a communist regime was in Chile, and we made sure that never came to fruition.

Socialism, on the other hand (and there a many, many variations of it) has existed in league with freely elected governments for decades in Europe. Some version of socialism is practiced in all the great western democracies, including our own, with no overt repression of The People, at least not to the degree you're thinking. France, the UK, Sweden, Germany, Holland, the US....none have concentration camps or re-education camps. (No....don't go there Obama conspiracist's!)

Fascism, according to Mussolini, the father of it, is the joining together of corporations and the state into one indivisible entity. Private property is sacred and corporations are privately owned, but are managed by the state for the good of the state and their profitability. Even under the horridly repressive regime of the Nazi's, private corporations existed and prospered off the slave labor provided by the state.

Fascist's of various stripes have been freely elected in several countries, though they don't commonly call themselves that because Hitler gave Fascism a bad name. Italy comes to mind and, for that matter, so do we. It's hard to deny that corporations control a great deal of what our government does, and would do more if certain people got their way, and that blending of government and business is Fascist by any definition. Yet, we do not yet have a Gestapo or concentration camps.

The point is that socialism, communism and fascism are economic models, just as is capitalism. And, as Adam Smith opined centuries ago, it is the ECONOMY which drives the creation of the government it needs to sustain itself, not the other way around. In every case, whatever economic system a country has will determine the kind of government it has, but that government does NOT have to be repressive IF it's democratically elected as an expression of the Will of The People. Democracy certainly can co-exist with any of the economic models IF that's what The People want. A repressive government only arises if the economic model is imposed against the Will of The People.

 

[AquaAthena]

To consider the differences, the two terms would have to be defined, but how many of us can define the two terms? Their main usage in America is in their use as political labels, labels meant to evoke an emotional response. If the thread has much response I would suspect a lot of trivial type answers indicating our lack of definition.

I suspect Obammy wants to see capitalism destroyed in America, moving on to socialism, then communism. Watch out for your two types of private property rights, explained in the link below.

SNIP:

Socialism and communism are alike in that both are systems of production for use based on public ownership of the means of production and centralized planning.

Socialism grows directly out of capitalism; it is the first form of the new society. Communism is a further development or "higher stage" of socialism.

From each according to his ability, to each according to his deeds (socialism). From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs (communism).

SNIP:

Are there, then, no differences between the Socialist and Communist parties? Yes, there are.

The Communists believe that as soon as the working class and its allies are in a position to do so they must make a basic change in the character of the state; they must replace capitalist dictatorship over the working class with workers’ dictatorship over the capitalist class as the first step in the process by which the existence of capitalists as a class (but not as individuals) is ended and a classless society is eventually ushered in. Socialism cannot be built merely by taking over and using the old capitalist machinery of government; the workers must destroy the old and set up their own new state apparatus. The workers’ state must give the old ruling class no opportunity to organize a counter-revolution; it must use its armed strength to crush capitalist resistance when it arises.

The Socialists, on the other hand, believe that it is possible to make the transition from capitalism to socialism without a basic change in the character of the state. They hold this view because they do not think of the capitalist state as essentially an institution for the dictatorship of the capitalist class, but rather as a perfectly good piece of machinery which can be used in the interest of whichever class gets command of it. No need, then, for the working class in power to smash the old capitalist state apparatus and set up its own—the march to socialism can be made step by step within the framework of the democratic forms of the capitalist state.

Much more:

Socialism and communism are alike in that both are systems of production for use based on public ownership of the means of production

 

[SniperFire]

Socialism, fascism and communism are certainly more than just economic models.

The Chinese are excellent state capitalists, for example.

 

[Oldguy]

Socialism, fascism and communism are certainly more than just economic models.

The Chinese are excellent state capitalists, for example.

China was once a "pure" communist country, complete with a tyrannical government. Today, it more closely resembles a fascist country than a communist one. They've sorta blended the two because private corporations are allowed, but the state retains a controlling interest in them.

 

[regent]

For almost 100 years the American people have lived in dread of communism, have spent billions of dollars, thousands of lives to fight communism, and in fact, are still living in a cold war economic era, trying to figure it out, before the cliff. Politicians have used it to gain votes, spend money, scare us, yet no one seems to know what communism really is. First, came the trivial definitions, then a few real attempts, but the bottom line seems to be that none of us really seem to know. Is communism just a label to raise the fear level, or is it real?

 

[Oldguy]

For almost 100 years the American people have lived in dread of communism, have spent billions of dollars, thousands of lives to fight communism, and in fact, are still living in a cold war economic era, trying to figure it out, before the cliff. Politicians have used it to gain votes, spend money, scare us, yet no one seems to know what communism really is. First, came the trivial definitions, then a few real attempts, but the bottom line seems to be that none of us really seem to know. Is communism just a label to raise the fear level, or is it real?

It's both.

 

[regent]

For almost 100 years the American people have lived in dread of communism, have spent billions of dollars, thousands of lives to fight communism, and in fact, are still living in a cold war economic era, trying to figure it out, before the cliff. Politicians have used it to gain votes, spend money, scare us, yet no one seems to know what communism really is. First, came the trivial definitions, then a few real attempts, but the bottom line seems to be that none of us really seem to know. Is communism just a label to raise the fear level, or is it real?

It's both.

And many can't seem to know the difference.

 

[daveman]

Marx opposed revolutions.

...after he was in power. He encouraged Communist revolutions in other countries, I believe.

 

[daveman]

For almost 100 years the American people have lived in dread of communism, have spent billions of dollars, thousands of lives to fight communism, and in fact, are still living in a cold war economic era, trying to figure it out, before the cliff. Politicians have used it to gain votes, spend money, scare us, yet no one seems to know what communism really is. First, came the trivial definitions, then a few real attempts, but the bottom line seems to be that none of us really seem to know. Is communism just a label to raise the fear level, or is it real?

Considering that Communism ALWAYS turns into a dictatorship, there is no reason to believe that "pure" Communism could ever work.

Period.

 

[hazlnut]

What's the Difference between Socialists and Communists?


By: Reaganite Republican
18 December 2012


Joke from communist-era Poland still rings-true...


Teen: 'Father, what's the difference between socialists and communists?'


Dad: 'The communists shoot you right in the head, while socialists torment you through your whole life.'

[Excerpt}

Read more:
RR: What's the Difference between Socialists and Communists?

What's the difference between a inbred redneck and someone educated by right-wing bloggers?


People educated by right-wing bloggers have no excuse for eating their own shit.

 

[SniperFire]

What's the Difference between Socialists and Communists?


By: Reaganite Republican
18 December 2012


Joke from communist-era Poland still rings-true...


Teen: 'Father, what's the difference between socialists and communists?'


Dad: 'The communists shoot you right in the head, while socialists torment you through your whole life.'

[Excerpt}

Read more:
RR: What's the Difference between Socialists and Communists?

What's the difference between a inbred redneck and someone educated by right-wing bloggers?


People educated by right-wing bloggers have no excuse for eating their own shit.

Be thahkful for the freedom loving 'right wing' which is dedicated to protecting liberties.

In Iran, you fags don't even exist.

 

[Oldguy]

For almost 100 years the American people have lived in dread of communism, have spent billions of dollars, thousands of lives to fight communism, and in fact, are still living in a cold war economic era, trying to figure it out, before the cliff. Politicians have used it to gain votes, spend money, scare us, yet no one seems to know what communism really is. First, came the trivial definitions, then a few real attempts, but the bottom line seems to be that none of us really seem to know. Is communism just a label to raise the fear level, or is it real?

It's both.

And many can't seem to know the difference.

Why should they? They don't even know the difference between fascism and nazism, let along fascism and communism. Knowing the difference between theoretical communism, Soviet communism and political communism would be too far a stretch.

 

[Oldguy]

Marx opposed revolutions.

...after he was in power. He encouraged Communist revolutions in other countries, I believe.

Marx was never "in power" anywhere.

 

[SniperFire]

It's both.

And many can't seem to know the difference.

Why should they? They don't even know the difference between fascism and nazism, let along fascism and communism. Knowing the difference between theoretical communism, Soviet communism and political communism would be too far a stretch.

Just slight variations of a theme, as has been demonstrated to you repeatedly.

 

[Oldguy]

For almost 100 years the American people have lived in dread of communism, have spent billions of dollars, thousands of lives to fight communism, and in fact, are still living in a cold war economic era, trying to figure it out, before the cliff. Politicians have used it to gain votes, spend money, scare us, yet no one seems to know what communism really is. First, came the trivial definitions, then a few real attempts, but the bottom line seems to be that none of us really seem to know. Is communism just a label to raise the fear level, or is it real?

Considering that Communism ALWAYS turns into a dictatorship, there is no reason to believe that "pure" Communism could ever work.

Period.

No, I doubt pure communism would work because it denies human nature.

And, we don't know if it would always turn into a dictatorship because we didn't give it time to develop in democratic Chile.