Whats really going on in IRAQ no "Happy News"

[jimnyc]

Jones, you have your opinion, but the majority of soldiers and America share a different one!

The last time the soldiers were polled, they were overwhelmingly in support of Bush.

2/3 of America polled feel soldiers should remain in Iraq until order has been restored. 60% of those polled still feel the war was worth fighting.

Here's the funny stats!
87% of republicans back Bush
57% of Independents back Bush
32% of Democrats back Bush

Those stats coupled with that last link you provided shows where you get your thinking from!

New Hampshire Gazette? LOL They claim on their page that they now have over 10,000 readers. They also state they were founded in 1756! In 250 years thats the best they could do? I also like their slogan "live free or die" - I guess that doesn't apply to Iraqi's though.

 

[eric]

I do not have time this morning for a full response, but one point must be made in response to:

"Aww, you employ and support our veterans?
Dont give a damn..I respect their opinions and knowledge"

Of course you don't, to you they are just political pawns. This is the fundamental difference between us, I take action while you sit and whine. Tell the family of an unemployed vet how much you respect their opinions, I'm sure they will appreciate it.

Much more latter.

 

[Dawoud]

Plenty of money for fat contracts for Bush campaign contributors but the men being wounded get little help from our compassionate conservatism leaders


By RUSS BYNUM, Associated Press Writer

FORT STEWART, Ga. - Spc. Joseph Eason came to Fort Stewart for medical treatment in August after leaving Iraq with five metal shards lodged in his lower body from a mortar round.
Eason, a citizen-soldier in the Florida National Guard, says he would prefer to go home and let a civilian physician treat his wounds. But that's not an option as long as he remains on active duty.
Instead, he's spent the past two months living in spartan concrete barracks at Fort Stewart, where he says his treatment has amounted to one doctor appointment, a visit to a physician's assistant and one physical therapy session.
"The medical care here, in my personal opinion, I feel is substandard if any," said Eason, 35, from Ft. Lauderdale, Fla.
Reports that sick or injured reservists complained of long waits for health care and uncomfortable housing put the Army on the defensive Monday, with post officials saying they're doing the best they can with what they have.
"We're constantly working on improvements," said Col. Joe Barthel, commander of Winn Army Hospital at Fort Stewart.

He acknowledged that the wait for orthopedic procedures is six weeks and "we like to keep that below four weeks. ... Our other surgical services are two to three weeks."
There are 633 National Guard and Army Reserve troops on what the Army calls "medical hold" for treatment of injuries or illnesses at Fort Stewart, with problems ranging from sprained ankles to war wounds.
The citizen-soldiers aren't considered sick enough for hospitalization, so they stay in the same minimal barracks, some without air conditioning or private bathrooms, used by healthy reservists.
If the soldiers get well, they go home when their unit is released from active duty. If they're still waiting for treatment when their units are deactivated, the Army may hold them until they're healed or discharged.
"We want to take care of soldiers and we're not going to send soldiers home broken," Barthel said.
Eason said he's been told it could take another nine months for his discharge to go through.
Spc. Chris Rinchich, an Army Reservist from Myrtle Beach, S.C., says he's waiting for knee surgery after tearing a ligament in his left knee in Kuwait in May. He said he doesn't expect to leave Fort Stewart until next summer.
"It's pending. I'm on a waiting list, I heard," said the 21-year-old Rinchich, who spent last summer in a cement-block barracks without air conditioning.
Col. John Kidd, garrison commander at Fort Stewart, said improvements are being made to the barracks. Window air conditioning units have been added to some and others have gotten new mattresses in the past month.
"They're designed for annual training for the National Guard, so they're fairly bare bones. They're habitable, but there's certainly no frills," he said. "They're not the best that we would like them to have. We would like to do better."

 

[jimnyc]

Look, Mr. "cut n paste because I can't spell worth a damn and have no opinion of my own that I can coherently discuss" is back!

 

[Dawoud]

By APARNA H. KUMAR, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - Anti-war groups are planning their largest demonstrations since after the start of the war in Iraq (news - web sites), with thousands expected at rallies Saturday in Washington and San Francisco.



Protesters are expected from 140 cities in the United States and Canada, organizers said Tuesday. They hope to foment public pressure that will force the withdrawal of U.S. troops.


With Congress poised to authorize $87 billion for Iraq's reconstruction, "Now more than ever it is critical that we stand united in our effort to turn this all around," said Leslie Cagan, an organizer for United for Peace and Justice.


The protests are being organized by Cagan's group and also International ANSWER, or Act Now to Stop War and End Racism, which led earlier protests. Their largest was in January in Washington, where police said 30,000 participated. Organizers said nearly a half million protested.


The last protest in Washington, in late March, drew only a few thousand people. Organizers hope to attract far more this weekend.


Police are planning for more than 40,000. "We expect it's going to be a big day," said Sgt. Scott Fear, a Park Police spokesman. The department has canceled days off for its officers, and will have extra horse and motorcycle patrols.


Fear said organizers have been working with authorities, and the protests should be mostly peaceful.


In March, about 65 people were arrested after climbing police barricades closing off Lafayette Park, which is across Pennsylvania Avenue from the White House.


The protests in Washington are scheduled at 11 a.m. EDT at the Washington Monument, followed by a march to the White House and Justice Department at 1:30 p.m. Speakers will include former Attorney General Ramsey Clark, Martin Luther King III, Bob Edgar, president of the National Council of Churches, and Fernando Suarez del Solar, the father of a Marine who was killed in Iraq.


"We honor and support our troops, but we are deeply opposed to the mission on which President Bush has sent them," said Stephen Cleghorn of Washington, a member of Military Families Against the War. He said his stepson is serving with the Army in Baghdad.
Presidential candidate Al Sharpton and Rep. John Conyers, D-Mich., will lead a Black Voices for Peace march.

In San Francisco, organizers are expecting thousands of protesters to participate in a 2 p.m. EDT rally followed by a march through downtown.


___

 

[Dawoud]

By The Associated Press

As of Tuesday, Oct. 21, 340 U.S. service members have died since the beginning of military operations in Iraq (news - web sites), according to the Department of Defense (news - web sites).
The British military has reported 50 deaths; Denmark, one; and Ukraine, one.


On or since May 1, when President Bush (news - web sites) declared that major combat operations in Iraq had ended, 202 U.S. soldiers have died in Iraq, according to the latest Defense Department figures.


Since the start of military operations, 1,597 U.S. service members have been injured as a result of hostile action, according to U.S. Central Command. Non-hostile injured numbered 337.

The latest deaths reported by U.S. Central Command:


_ A 377th Theater Support Command soldier was killed and one was injured in a maintenance accident on Tuesday at Camp Anaconda in Balad, Iraq.

The latest identifications reported by the U.S. Military:

_ Air Force Tech. Sgt. Bruce E. Brown, 32, Coatopa, Ala.; killed in a vehicle accident on Sept. 4 near Qatar's al-Udeid base; assigned to the 78th Logistics Readiness Squadron, Robins Air Force Base, Ga.

_Army Staff Sgt. Paul J. Johnson, 29, Calumet, Mich.; killed Monday when he came under attack while on patrol in Fallujah, Iraq; assigned to 1st Battalion, 505th Parachute Infantry Regiment, 82nd Airborne Division, Fort Bragg, N.C.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Dawoud
By The Associated Press

As of Tuesday, Oct. 21, 340 U.S. service members have died since the beginning of military operations in Iraq

And how many of the enemy? 9,565 dead Iraqi's And hopefully they are those wife beating muslims. Are you one of them, Dawoud?

 

[eric]

Hey Jim, I just developed a new version of Internet Explorer, Dawoud should download it and check it out. He might not be please though, it has no "Edit menu", and the hotkeys Ctrl-C and Ctrl-X are disabled. This is one thing he might like, Haliburton gets no royalties.

 

[dijetlo]

>> This is the fundamental difference between us, I take action while you sit and whine<<
You're arguing that you employ people as a public service, not because you need thier labor to make your business profitable?
>> No money does not equate to happiness, but it is a marker of our intelligence in a capitalistic society.<<
Your claims of a relationship between intelligence and wealth do not bear scientific scrutiny. Wealthy americans are not notably smarter than the average american. Having read your posts extensively, I can assure you that you are not smarter than the average american either, thus giving some credence to your claims of wealth and power.

Dawoud, the cutting and pasting of entire news articles is not going to engender a lively depate (If I may be so bold as to suggest that you post the link instead and only paste the parts of the article that bear directly on your stated argument).

For Jimmyc, why doesn't the pentagon track (or at least publicly admit they track) the number of Iraqis killed in incedents with the occupation army? You don't find that...curious? It doesn't make you wonder what else they don't want us to know?

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by dijetlo
[BFor Jimmyc, why doesn't the pentagon track (or at least publicly admit they track) the number of Iraqis killed in incedents with the occupation army? You don't find that...curious? It doesn't make you wonder what else they don't want us to know? [/B]

Not sure what exactly you mean, the casualties from all parties involved are readily available from our military. Try searching, let me know what you find!

 

[dijetlo]

I found this here:
>>The Pentagon said yesterday that it has no plans to determine how many Iraqi civilians may have been killed or injured or suffered property damage as a result of U.S. military operations in Iraq.<<
Do you have more recent information that they have begun to record deaths? Please post the link if you have a source, I'd be interested to see it.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by dijetlo
I found this here:
>>The Pentagon said yesterday that it has no plans to determine how many Iraqi civilians may have been killed or injured or suffered property damage as a result of U.S. military operations in Iraq.<<
Do you have more recent information that they have begun to record deaths? Please post the link if you have a source, I'd be interested to see it.

I'm man enough to admit it; I was wrong and posted erroneously. The stats I look at that are updated daily only include combatants that can be verified. Civilians killed as "collateral damage" are not being counted, but not being discounted.

It appears the USA is prepared to compensate any Iraqi that suffered a loss in their family due to this collateral damage.

Counting civilian losses during war is apparently something the US has never done, so this is nothing specific with the war in Iraq.

Compensating families who lost loved ones is also something that was never done before, and that IS something specific to this war.

So, I would guess that when all is said and done they WILL have a good indication of civilians killed, as they'll need this data in order to form compensation.

My apologies for my bad post.

 

[dijetlo]

>>So, I would guess that when all is said and done they WILL have a good indication of civilians killed, as they'll need this data in order to form compensation.<<

Sounds like it, doesn't it. That's why their public claims that they are not keeping this kind of data just seems...odd. With all the money they might have to pay out in claims, you don't think the pentagon has this data? When the administration does a cost estimate, aren't they already using it? If not, what else is the Administration guessing at when it tries to define the costs of the war?

 

[eric]

Originally posted by dijetlo
>> This is the fundamental difference between us, I take action while you sit and whine<<
You're arguing that you employ people as a public service, not because you need thier labor to make your business profitable?
>> No money does not equate to happiness, but it is a marker of our intelligence in a capitalistic society.<<
Your claims of a relationship between intelligence and wealth do not bear scientific scrutiny. Wealthy americans are not notably smarter than the average american. Having read your posts extensively, I can assure you that you are not smarter than the average american either, thus giving some credence to your claims of wealth and power.

Dawoud, the cutting and pasting of entire news articles is not going to engender a lively depate (If I may be so bold as to suggest that you post the link instead and only paste the parts of the article that bear directly on your stated argument).

For Jimmyc, why doesn't the pentagon track (or at least publicly admit they track) the number of Iraqis killed in incedents with the occupation army? You don't find that...curious? It doesn't make you wonder what else they don't want us to know?

Look, I have no desire to get personal with you, but here is a great example of why I wrote this kind of post. We have not debated anything yet and you already are starting to get personal. Furthermore did you read my posts in all the forms or just this thread. I am not used to people calling me a F*king idiot, and I do not take kindly to it.

To answer your question you posed to me about hiring people. Yes I do hire some people as a public service. My feeling is if two people are equally qualified and one happens to be disabled or a Vet, why not give these people a break. Believe it or not there are people who run businesses that are kind and not driven entirely by money.

Now let me pose a question to you, who are you to judge my level of intellegence? What uniquely qualifies you in this area?

One should examine one's self before passing judgment on others. Do you care to explain what this statement means :

"Having read your posts extensively, I can assure you that you are not smarter than the average american either, thus giving some credence to your claims of wealth and power."

 

[jimnyc]

Eric, I wouldn't even think twice about it if I were you. He's obviously just trying to piss you off, and under the circumstances I'd say you've handled yourself admirably.

Although I've never met you face to face, I am willing to go as far as to say that you do seem smarter than the average Joe. Owning and operating your own business is not something the average Joe could do on paper, let alone do in real time. Your political knowledge appears to be extensive and your technical knowledge in the IT arena is superb.

If dijetlo is an example of the "average American", that is proof enough that you are much smarter.

 

[eric]

Thank you Jim, I really do appreciate it. You know what it is, and I know you have experienced this many times yourself, if you do not agree with certain peoples wacky conspiracy theories then they try and make you feel as though you are some simple-minded idiot who is unable to think for yourself and blindly buy into the great Bush Lie. Just because we happen to agree with some of the actions of our country, this should in no way illicit that response from these people. This theme repeats itself over and over, and after a while pisses you off and makes you want to put them in there place. I think this is evidenced by our posts; the people with whom we have good debates we treat with respect, even though we disagree, and there is no mention of intellegence, money, or power.

Thanks again

Eric

 

[Dawoud]

Bad news comming out of Iraq every day. I beleave thats what I named this thread.
Im not here to debate you eric or jimnyc
I really dont give a damn what both of you think or how much money you have or how smart you think eachother are.
I will continue copying and pasting this news as it comes out.

I will say one thing there IS some good news comming out of Iraq too and Im glad of it...Just not very much........Hell I wish I was wrong and things were getting better...........But so far just what I said would happen when this war started is playing out. we have won the war...and are loseing the peace.

Another thing look at the number of views on this thread do you really think all the people comming to read this stuff is comming to here you put me down.........I think not

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20031022/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_441

 

[jimnyc]

Dawoud, I'm asking that you try to limit the thread size by just adding links to your posts as you did in your last post. You may even want to do what I do mostly, which is post the first paragraph and then give the link. If someone wants to read the rest they will click on the link. It makes it much easier for a new user to follow who clicks on this thread for the first time.

Another thing look at the number of views on this thread do you really think all the people comming to read this stuff is comming to here you put me down.........I think not

There is a thread in the adult section called "New Bra" that has nearly as many views with only 7 replies! Views don't lead to support or disagreements. Sometimes a catchy title is all that is needed for someone to click on a thread.

 

[eric]

Well if this thread is not going to consist of opinions and debate I have much better things to to with my time. So post away Dawoud eventually you will turn everyone else off too. I am really not sure what your purpose is, as I have said your are not going to change anyones views with these news flashes. Sorry !

I'll join people in other threads that are able to hold a conversation.

 

[Dawoud]

Ok jimnyc
And if i didn't limit my posts to a thread that was appropriate to what i spoke of or pasted things too then I was wrong and apologize to you for that
I will limit it to URLs and my views on things concerning the news from IRAQ Or other threads I am on.

jimnyc did you do that when you accused me of beating my wife?
Im 56 years old and have never hit a woman in my entire life. and for all your saying how bad Muslims are to their women we are scraping now to pay for my wife going back to school to finish her PH D in physics

And eric you can kiss my ass. If I never saw another post from you it would be too soon.


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...p/20031023/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_prisoner_death