Whats really going on in IRAQ no "Happy News"

[Dawoud]

#1 In Bushes state of the union speech he said Iraq had been trying to get radioactive material from Niger...even thoe The CIA had told him this was false.

#2 Then Powell made the same claim to the UN

 

[eric]

First of all certain element in the CIA informed Bush they had their doubts about the authenticity of a british intel report, this is a little different from saying they knew the claim was false. Second the british claim their intel came from more than just the report, and still stand by their intelligence today. Until it can be absolutely proven that Iraq was not trying to obtain nuclear technology the use of the word lying is extreme. By the way have you forgotten about the french reactor that Isreal took care of.

 

[jimnyc]

Eric, lets not allow facts to get in the way of propaganda.

 

[eric]

Jim your right. We have to keep that propaganda machine moving, lest we forget elections are coming soon. The economy is now growing faster than expected, in fact if the growth continues at this rate even the deficit won't hold any political value. Not to mention Bush's approval rating just rose 10% according to the latest Gallup Poll. Even California is starting to realize the ills of liberal politics, geez what's a dem to do.

 

[Aquarian]

That's just the thing, Dawoud, at this juncture we can't be sure if he lied, was misled by faulty intelligence, used faulty intelligence knowingly which is slightly different than lying outright imo, or if he was right in essence but for different reason than the evidence presented. Obviously a lot of folks have made up their minds one way or the other but outside the loop all opinions are unsubstantiated at this point.

 

[eric]

Wise words !

 

[jimnyc]

Aquarian, I like your new avatar, whats that from?

 

[Aquarian]

2001: a space odysee or 2010: the year we make contact, think its an amalgam of images rather than a straight screen shot from the movie.

 

[jimnyc]

Thanks, Aquarian.

Ok, back on topic...

I agree with your prior post as well, it's all nothing more than opinion at this point.

 

[eric]

Yes it seems that people are rushing to conclusions to suit their political or social agendas, and may very well turn out looking foolish.

 

[Dawoud]

Eight Marines Charged in Iraq Death
Sat Oct 18, 4:17 AM ET

CAMP PENDLETON, Calif. - Eight Marine reservists stationed at Camp Pendleton have been charged in connection with the June death of an Iraqi man who was held at a detention facility in Iraq (news - web sites), authorities said.

Two of the men, Maj. Clark A. Paulus and Lance Cpl. Christian Hernandez, face negligent homicide charges, said staff Sgt. Bill Lisbon, a Marine spokesman at Camp Pendleton. Charges against the other six range from assault to dereliction of duty.

"I think it's surprising because this is not what Marines do," Lisbon said Friday. "They don't do what these guys are being charged with."
All eight men, who belong to the 2nd Battalion, 25th Marine Regiment, are being held at Camp Pendleton. It was not known late Friday who their lawyers were.
Lisbon acknowledged the charges stemmed from a case in which an Iraqi man died while being detained by U.S. authorities. He would not, however, say whether the case in question was that of a 52-year-old Iraqi prisoner of war, whose corpse was found June 6 at a camp run by the 1st Marine Division near Nasiriyah. The man had been held at the camp in southern Iraq since his capture May 3.
Lisbon said Paulus and Hernandez also face lesser charges, including cruelty and maltreatment, and assault.

Three others, Maj. William Vickers, Sgt. Gary Pittman and Lance Cpl. William Roy, also faced charges ranging from dereliction of duty to cruelty.
The remaining three men, Sgt. Albert Rodriquez-Martinez, Lance Cpl. Andrew Rodney and Lance Cpl. Konstantin Mikholap, are each charged with making false official statements and assault, Lisbon said.

The cases will be examined by the military equivalent of a grand jury, which will decide whether the men will be court-martialed.

Lisbon also would not say when the unit was activated for duty nor when it returned to the United States. The unit is in New York, he said.

In a separate case, four military police from a Pennsylvania-based Army Reserve unit were charged in July with punching, kicking and breaking bones of prisoners at Camp Bucca, the largest U.S.-run POW camp in Iraq. Those soldiers and their families have denied the accusations.

 

[Dawoud]

Afghan prisoners beaten to death at US military interrogation base

'Blunt force injuries' cited in murder ruling

Duncan Campbell in Los Angeles
Friday March 7, 2003
The Guardian

Two prisoners who died while being held for interrogation at the US military base in Afghanistan had apparently been beaten, according to a military pathologist's report. A criminal investigation is now under way into the deaths which have both been classified as homicides.
The deaths have led to calls for an inquiry into what interrogation techniques are being used at the base where it is believed the al-Qaida leader, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, is now also being held. Former prisoners at the base claim that detainees are chained to the ceiling, shackled so tightly that the blood flow stops, kept naked and hooded and kicked to keep them awake for days on end.
The two men, both Afghans, died last December at the US forces base in Bagram, north of Kabul, where prisoners have been held for questioning. The autopsies found they had suffered "blunt force injuries" and classified both deaths as homicides.
A spokesman for the Pentagon said yesterday it was not possible to discuss the details of the case because of the proceeding investigation. If the investigation finds that the prisoners had been unlawfully killed during interrogation, it could lead to both civil and military prosecutions. He added that it was not clear whether only US personnel had had access to the men.
One of the dead prisoners, known only as Dilawar, died as a result of "blunt force injuries to lower extremities complicating coronary artery disease", according to the death certificate signed by Major Elizabeth Rouse, a pathologist with the Washington-based Armed Forces Institute of Pathology, which operates under the auspices of the defence department. The dead man was aged 22 and was a farmer and part-time taxi-driver. He was said to have had an advanced heart condition and blocked arteries.
Chris Kelly, a spokesman for the institute, said yesterday that their pathologists were involved in all cases on military bases where there were unusual or suspicious deaths. He was not aware of any other homicides of prisoners held since September 11. He said that the definition of homicide was "death resulting from the intentional or grossly reckless behaviour of another person or persons" but could also encompass "self-defence or justifiable killings".
The death certificates for the men have four boxes on them giving choices of "natural, accident, suicide, homicide". The Pentagon said yesterday that the choice of "homicide" did not necessarily mean that the dead person had been unlawfully killed. There was no box which would indicate that a pathologist was uncertain how a person had died.
It is believed that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, described as the number three in al-Qaida, is being interrogated at Bagram. He is said to have started providing information about the possible whereabouts of Osama bin Laden whom he is said to have met in Pakistan last month. Most al-Qaida suspects are being held outside the US which means that they are not entitled to access to the US judicial system.
Two former prisoners at the base, Abdul Jabar and Hakkim Shah, told the New York Times this week that they recalled seeing Dilawar at Bagram. They said that they had been kept naked, hooded and shackled and were deprived of sleep for days on end. Mr Shah said that American guards kicked him to stop him falling asleep and that on one occasion he had been kicked by a woman interrogator, while her male colleague held him in a kneeling position.
The commander of the coalition forces in Afghanistan, General Daniel McNeill, said that prisoners were made to stand for long periods but he denied that they were chained to the ceiling. "Our interrogation techniques are adapted," he said.
"They are in accordance with what is generally accepted as interrogation techniques, and if incidental to the due course of this investigation, we find things that need to be changed, we will certainly change them."
In January, in his state of the union address, President George Bush announced that "3,000 suspected terrorists have been arrested in many countries" and "many others have met a different fate" and "are no longer a problem to the United States".
The other death being investigated is that of Mullah Habibullah, the brother of a former Taliban commander. His death certificate indicates that he died of a pulmonary embolism, or a blood clot in the lung.

 

[eric]

See now we are getting smart ! I really could care less what means are used in order to get the intel we need ! Lets be honest, if the tables were turned I am sure there would be no hesitation on their part. These people are animals and need to be treated as such!

Keep posting these news stories, your not changing any opinions.

 

[jones]

Dawoud, some nice stuff.

Yes its true Iraq is alot worse than we hear on CNN and from Dubya's mouth. I'm sorry eric, jim, you're dead wrong.

Find a letter, any letter from a soldier in Iraq. Im talking real, not military propaganda.

here are some for u to browse, I typed "Iraq letter soldier" in google. Disturbing.

And dont say this is leftist propaganda. Oh Please. whats that? every letter is fake? Please don't DISRESPECT our soldiers' by saying "its their job, they should expect hardship" crap.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4121.htm

http://www.electgore04.com/military/mil.htm

http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/2003/09/001265.html

Oh and dont get me started on reservists who get treated like shit when they've been injured and put on "medical hold".

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by jones
Yes its true Iraq is alot worse than we hear on CNN and from Dubya's mouth. I'm sorry eric, jim, you're dead wrong.

So are you saying all the good news about banks, currency, schools, business's, new roads, TV, radio... It all false? Can you show us where Bush and Rumsfeld's statements about the current state of Iraq are false?

 

[Dawoud]

Originally posted by jimnyc
So are you saying all the good news about banks, currency, schools, business's, new roads, TV, radio... It all false? Can you show us where Bush and Rumsfeld's statements about the current state of Iraq are false?

Well what good would it do to do that you will just edit it out saying it had nothing to do with the thread and to "start a new one" youve found a very convient way to edit out anyone who doesent march ( or should i say Goose step)in sinc with your right wing opinions

 

[Spirit_Soul]

I like your signature dawoud, I wish people realized it( as in what it says).

 

[jones]

If its so great, Bush and his staff should visit Iraq and greet the cheering crouds of iraqs. You know, it should be safe, since Bush declared the war over and all.

Darn, Its a trend.

http://www.takebackthemedia.com/sanfran.html

 

[jones]

This costume is great. Couldnt resist..

http://www.moveon.org/misleader/3lies-ad.pdf

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Dawoud
Well what good would it do to do that you will just edit it out saying it had nothing to do with the thread and to "start a new one" youve found a very convient way to edit out anyone who doesent march ( or should i say Goose step)in sinc with your right wing opinions

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news to you, Dawoud! You're the first and only person who's post had to be edited for refusal to follow simple instructions.

Not one person has had a problem with posting ON TOPIC for the particular thread, why do you have such an issue with this? Do you think people should be able to post whatever they want on any subject in any thread?

Stop obsessing, you're starting to sound pathetic.