whats it worth to you

[DaGoose]

The truth is this, the teachers who everyone is taking to the cleaners is costing the tax payers 2/5 of what inflation does to the cost of goods over 40 years.

In 1970 the 5000 a student would be 28,000 in 2010 dollars but we only spend 10/11000 depending on who you talk to. thats less that 2/5ths of what inflation says it should cost.


In 1970 i was making 3.00 an hr and I retired in 2006 at 26.00 an hr as a machinist.

so how the hell is a Techer who has a college degree not worth more than a machinist.

It's called supply and demand. There was a bigger demand for machinist than teachers.


duh!

Its more than that. There is a smaller supply with a hire demand. Not anyone can be a machinist. Teaching is overflowing with candidates. sadly not all of them are good.

Uh-huh.

Despite capital region layoffs, a teacher shortage looms - Sacramento News - Local and Breaking Sacramento News | Sacramento Bee

National Teacher Shortage

Teacher Shortage Areas

Designated Teacher Shortage Areas

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/07/education/07teacher.html

.

 

[westwall]

First. True, however we also MUST pay for the public school system as well which is why we are fully in favor of vouchers. That way public schools have to compete for students which means quality will go up.

If you have some measure of disatisfaction with your local public school then talk to your local school board. I'll bet you've never been to even one school board meeting, right? They spend hundreds, if not thousands of your local property tax dollars and you probably have no idea how it's spent. Tell your locally elected school board representative you want vouchers and listen to what he or she says. Vouchers are not need or even wanted where I live.

Second, private schools out here are not picky at all. They will accept anyone who can afford to pay.

Not around here. In fact there is only one private school that caters to a strict Baptists.



Then you're not getting your money's worth.

Fourth, what planet do you live on! Corporal punishment will get a teacher thrown in jail and the school sued in a heartbeat. You have no idea what is going on in schools if you truly believe that particular BS.

Nope. It depends on the private school. The aforementioned Baptist school explains upfront that they use corporal punishment with at least two staff members present.

Try looking at some of the surveys of public school students, they don't know geography, they don't know history, they can't read, they can't write, they are incapable of pointing to a globe and placing their country on a continent. So what exactly are teachers responsible for? They teach kids how to sing and feel good about themselves but little else.

I don't know who "they" are but I'm guessing you're full of BS if you're attempting to describe your local school system or you live in an area full of nuke plants and paint lead.

Here we have an excellant school system, a VERY active PTA and school board meetings that are generally standing room only.

Around here we care about education, have clean schools and respectful students. And it shows by their test scores. And most of the small towns around us are the same way.

It must suck to live in your area.

.

Wrong but continue with your silliness. I am a very involved member of the community here so I attend almost all the various city and county meetings. I even head down to Carson when a State issue comes up that I am interested in. Lately the school board is buying some real nice cars for the administrators to drive home in.

The public achool system is broken nationwide. Unions control the curriculum and make it virtually impossible to get rid of bad teachers.

I am happy that you have a good public school system where you live, you are the exception to the rule. Around here we care as well but the school system is littered with liberal teachers who care more about their paycheck then teaching which is the norm nationwide. There are of course exceptions but the rest of the teachers then treat the standouts so poorly that they leave and come work in the private schools for less money. The poor teachers don't want to look bad don't you know.

Actually other then the poor schools and the worthless libs trying to destroy this state it is quite nice, I get to have my toys and do what I want so long as I don't bother anyone else.
The libs on the other hand just can't stand to have someone with freedom to do that so it is a constant battle to keep them under control. We're trying to get them to move back to California where they came from.

As for you, instead of resorting to petty insults try addressing the actual points in a reasonable way. You'll get further.

 

[DaGoose]

First. True, however we also MUST pay for the public school system as well which is why we are fully in favor of vouchers. That way public schools have to compete for students which means quality will go up.

If you have some measure of disatisfaction with your local public school then talk to your local school board. I'll bet you've never been to even one school board meeting, right? They spend hundreds, if not thousands of your local property tax dollars and you probably have no idea how it's spent. Tell your locally elected school board representative you want vouchers and listen to what he or she says. Vouchers are not need or even wanted where I live.



Not around here. In fact there is only one private school that caters to a strict Baptists.



Then you're not getting your money's worth.



Nope. It depends on the private school. The aforementioned Baptist school explains upfront that they use corporal punishment with at least two staff members present.

Try looking at some of the surveys of public school students, they don't know geography, they don't know history, they can't read, they can't write, they are incapable of pointing to a globe and placing their country on a continent. So what exactly are teachers responsible for? They teach kids how to sing and feel good about themselves but little else.

I don't know who "they" are but I'm guessing you're full of BS if you're attempting to describe your local school system or you live in an area full of nuke plants and paint lead.

Here we have an excellant school system, a VERY active PTA and school board meetings that are generally standing room only.

Around here we care about education, have clean schools and respectful students. And it shows by their test scores. And most of the small towns around us are the same way.

It must suck to live in your area.

.

Wrong but continue with your silliness. I am a very involved member of the community here so I attend almost all the various city and county meetings. I even head down to Carson when a State issue comes up that I am interested in. Lately the school board is buying some real nice cars for the administrators to drive home in.

The public achool system is broken nationwide. Unions control the curriculum and make it virtually impossible to get rid of bad teachers.

I am happy that you have a good public school system where you live, you are the exception to the rule. Around here we care as well but the school system is littered with liberal teachers who care more about their paycheck then teaching which is the norm nationwide. There are of course exceptions but the rest of the teachers then treat the standouts so poorly that they leave and come work in the private schools for less money. The poor teachers don't want to look bad don't you know.

Actually other then the poor schools and the worthless libs trying to destroy this state it is quite nice, I get to have my toys and do what I want so long as I don't bother anyone else.
The libs on the other hand just can't stand to have someone with freedom to do that so it is a constant battle to keep them under control. We're trying to get them to move back to California where they came from.

As for you, instead of resorting to petty insults try addressing the actual points in a reasonable way. You'll get further.

The point I'm trying to make is that ALL schools are governed locally. They are financed mostly through local property taxes. You and the Neo-Cons make it sound like they're this big state and federal utopia for waste and bad teachers. And that is patently false. There are very few bad teachers. There are TONS of bad parents.

It's all about local control chief. You want to complain about a teacher? Some money waste you saw? School rules? Pick up the phone and make a local call your neighbor who happens to be on the board.

And as for you....Since you're for so much freedom you'll agree with me that laws against abortion, euthanasia, prostitution and marijuana are wrong? Or do you just parrot the Neo-Con talking points and really don't stand for personal freedom?


.

 

[Douger]

Why on earth would I be happy about being dependent on someone else for 40+ years?

do you produce your own gas? Do you make your own clothes? Do you grow your own foods?

Yes.
I also produce my own electricity.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

The truth is this, the teachers who everyone is taking to the cleaners is costing the tax payers 2/5 of what inflation does to the cost of goods over 40 years.

In 1970 the 5000 a student would be 28,000 in 2010 dollars but we only spend 10/11000 depending on who you talk to. thats less that 2/5ths of what inflation says it should cost.


In 1970 i was making 3.00 an hr and I retired in 2006 at 26.00 an hr as a machinist.

so how the hell is a Techer who has a college degree not worth more than a machinist.

It's called supply and demand. There was a bigger demand for machinist than teachers.


duh!

Its more than that. There is a smaller supply with a hire demand. Not anyone can be a machinist. Teaching is overflowing with candidates. sadly not all of them are good.

I agree.

 

[DaGoose]

It's called supply and demand. There was a bigger demand for machinist than teachers.


duh!

Its more than that. There is a smaller supply with a hire demand. Not anyone can be a machinist. Teaching is overflowing with candidates. sadly not all of them are good.

I agree.

Uh-huh.

Despite capital region layoffs, a teacher shortage looms - Sacramento News - Local and Breaking Sacramento News | Sacramento Bee

National Teacher Shortage

Teacher Shortage Areas

Designated Teacher Shortage Areas

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/07/ed...07teacher.html

 

[Mini 14]

You people really need investment counseling.

These are HORRIBLE returns.

If any broker brought me back a 4% return, he wouldn't be around long, unless they were muni-bonds or other tax-free investments.

 

[ba1614]

Its more than that. There is a smaller supply with a hire demand. Not anyone can be a machinist. Teaching is overflowing with candidates. sadly not all of them are good.

I agree.

Uh-huh.

Despite capital region layoffs, a teacher shortage looms - Sacramento News - Local and Breaking Sacramento News | Sacramento Bee

National Teacher Shortage

Teacher Shortage Areas

Designated Teacher Shortage Areas

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/07/ed...07teacher.html

I guess the teachers getting laid off will have to move where the jobs are. I know the union might not be able to hold their hand through the whole process, but they should be able to draw on their exceptional intelligence to figure it out.

 

[DaGoose]

I agree.

Uh-huh.

Despite capital region layoffs, a teacher shortage looms - Sacramento News - Local and Breaking Sacramento News | Sacramento Bee

National Teacher Shortage

Teacher Shortage Areas

Designated Teacher Shortage Areas

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/07/ed...07teacher.html

I guess the teachers getting laid off will have to move where the jobs are. I know the union might not be able to hold their hand through the whole process, but they should be able to draw on their exceptional intelligence to figure it out.

Which is goood for them since nearly 100% of teachers I know (and I know many) have "exceptional intelligence" AND dedication to their profession.

.

 

[westwall]

If you have some measure of disatisfaction with your local public school then talk to your local school board. I'll bet you've never been to even one school board meeting, right? They spend hundreds, if not thousands of your local property tax dollars and you probably have no idea how it's spent. Tell your locally elected school board representative you want vouchers and listen to what he or she says. Vouchers are not need or even wanted where I live.



Not around here. In fact there is only one private school that caters to a strict Baptists.



Then you're not getting your money's worth.



Nope. It depends on the private school. The aforementioned Baptist school explains upfront that they use corporal punishment with at least two staff members present.



I don't know who "they" are but I'm guessing you're full of BS if you're attempting to describe your local school system or you live in an area full of nuke plants and paint lead.

Here we have an excellant school system, a VERY active PTA and school board meetings that are generally standing room only.

Around here we care about education, have clean schools and respectful students. And it shows by their test scores. And most of the small towns around us are the same way.

It must suck to live in your area.

.

Wrong but continue with your silliness. I am a very involved member of the community here so I attend almost all the various city and county meetings. I even head down to Carson when a State issue comes up that I am interested in. Lately the school board is buying some real nice cars for the administrators to drive home in.

The public achool system is broken nationwide. Unions control the curriculum and make it virtually impossible to get rid of bad teachers.

I am happy that you have a good public school system where you live, you are the exception to the rule. Around here we care as well but the school system is littered with liberal teachers who care more about their paycheck then teaching which is the norm nationwide. There are of course exceptions but the rest of the teachers then treat the standouts so poorly that they leave and come work in the private schools for less money. The poor teachers don't want to look bad don't you know.

Actually other then the poor schools and the worthless libs trying to destroy this state it is quite nice, I get to have my toys and do what I want so long as I don't bother anyone else.
The libs on the other hand just can't stand to have someone with freedom to do that so it is a constant battle to keep them under control. We're trying to get them to move back to California where they came from.

As for you, instead of resorting to petty insults try addressing the actual points in a reasonable way. You'll get further.

The point I'm trying to make is that ALL schools are governed locally. They are financed mostly through local property taxes. You and the Neo-Cons make it sound like they're this big state and federal utopia for waste and bad teachers. And that is patently false. There are very few bad teachers. There are TONS of bad parents.

It's all about local control chief. You want to complain about a teacher? Some money waste you saw? School rules? Pick up the phone and make a local call your neighbor who happens to be on the board.

And as for you....Since you're for so much freedom you'll agree with me that laws against abortion, euthanasia, prostitution and marijuana are wrong? Or do you just parrot the Neo-Con talking points and really don't stand for personal freedom?


.

For your info I'm a Democrat and have been my whole life. I just find it despicable that teachers unions will screw over children at the drop of a hat to try and extort more money that isn't available. As far as the rest, ALL drugs should be decriminalised, ANYONE should be free to marry whom they wish (my daughters godmother is lesbian), I live in a state where prostituton is legal in most counties (and I feel it should be legalised Statewide), abortion is legal here and I support it, but for a reason counter to yours I am sure and that is the State that has the power to say it is illegal also has the power to say you must have an abortion, al a China.

How about you Chief, how about gun rights. Should people who are not felons and who are not monitored by the mental health system of the US and its various States be allowed to own any type of firearm they wish to include machineguns? Hmm? Let's see just how into persoanal freedoms and personal responsibilities you are.


And finally to the point, schools are supposed to bhe governed locally but ALL are beholden to powere far, far away. They all must teach to a federally approved curriculum, and all must have teachers certified by the various teachers unions. It is nearly impossible to fire bad teachers. The unions protect them. Google bad teachers and you will see all over the country where horrible teachers are shuffled from one school to the next, kind of like the Catholic Church and how it shuffled pedophile priests from one parish to the next, intgeresting how you villify (rightly so) the Church for doing exactly the same thing as the teachers unions with nearly the same harm commited in some cases (look up convicted New York teachers for that, who are still on the payroll, at least they are made to sit in a room and not teach anymore, but they still get to pull down their full salaries).

The school boards here are also corrupted, recently a principle was arrested for DUI and drug charges, so the School Board rightly removed him from his job but then turned right around and created a 100,000+ per year job that he was "uniquely" qualified to do, they take care of their own at the expense of the taxpayer all over the country....THAT'S why the public is revolted by their behavior and are in full support of reigning in their collective bargaining BS.

 

[ba1614]

Uh-huh.

Despite capital region layoffs, a teacher shortage looms - Sacramento News - Local and Breaking Sacramento News | Sacramento Bee

National Teacher Shortage

Teacher Shortage Areas

Designated Teacher Shortage Areas

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/07/ed...07teacher.html

I guess the teachers getting laid off will have to move where the jobs are. I know the union might not be able to hold their hand through the whole process, but they should be able to draw on their exceptional intelligence to figure it out.

Which is goood for them since nearly 100% of teachers I know (and I know many) have "exceptional intelligence" AND dedication to their profession.

.

Then I'm not sure what you are crying about?

 

[DaGoose]

Wrong but continue with your silliness. I am a very involved member of the community here so I attend almost all the various city and county meetings. I even head down to Carson when a State issue comes up that I am interested in. Lately the school board is buying some real nice cars for the administrators to drive home in.

The public achool system is broken nationwide. Unions control the curriculum and make it virtually impossible to get rid of bad teachers.

I am happy that you have a good public school system where you live, you are the exception to the rule. Around here we care as well but the school system is littered with liberal teachers who care more about their paycheck then teaching which is the norm nationwide. There are of course exceptions but the rest of the teachers then treat the standouts so poorly that they leave and come work in the private schools for less money. The poor teachers don't want to look bad don't you know.

Actually other then the poor schools and the worthless libs trying to destroy this state it is quite nice, I get to have my toys and do what I want so long as I don't bother anyone else.
The libs on the other hand just can't stand to have someone with freedom to do that so it is a constant battle to keep them under control. We're trying to get them to move back to California where they came from.

As for you, instead of resorting to petty insults try addressing the actual points in a reasonable way. You'll get further.

The point I'm trying to make is that ALL schools are governed locally. They are financed mostly through local property taxes. You and the Neo-Cons make it sound like they're this big state and federal utopia for waste and bad teachers. And that is patently false. There are very few bad teachers. There are TONS of bad parents.

It's all about local control chief. You want to complain about a teacher? Some money waste you saw? School rules? Pick up the phone and make a local call your neighbor who happens to be on the board.

And as for you....Since you're for so much freedom you'll agree with me that laws against abortion, euthanasia, prostitution and marijuana are wrong? Or do you just parrot the Neo-Con talking points and really don't stand for personal freedom?


.

For your info I'm a Democrat and have been my whole life. I just find it despicable that teachers unions will screw over children at the drop of a hat to try and extort more money that isn't available. As far as the rest, ALL drugs should be decriminalised, ANYONE should be free to marry whom they wish (my daughters godmother is lesbian), I live in a state where prostituton is legal in most counties (and I feel it should be legalised Statewide), abortion is legal here and I support it, but for a reason counter to yours I am sure and that is the State that has the power to say it is illegal also has the power to say you must have an abortion, al a China.

How about you Chief, how about gun rights. Should people who are not felons and who are not monitored by the mental health system of the US and its various States be allowed to own any type of firearm they wish to include machineguns? Hmm? Let's see just how into persoanal freedoms and personal responsibilities you are.


And finally to the point, schools are supposed to bhe governed locally but ALL are beholden to powere far, far away. They all must teach to a federally approved curriculum, and all must have teachers certified by the various teachers unions. It is nearly impossible to fire bad teachers. The unions protect them. Google bad teachers and you will see all over the country where horrible teachers are shuffled from one school to the next, kind of like the Catholic Church and how it shuffled pedophile priests from one parish to the next, intgeresting how you villify (rightly so) the Church for doing exactly the same thing as the teachers unions with nearly the same harm commited in some cases (look up convicted New York teachers for that, who are still on the payroll, at least they are made to sit in a room and not teach anymore, but they still get to pull down their full salaries).

The school boards here are also corrupted, recently a principle was arrested for DUI and drug charges, so the School Board rightly removed him from his job but then turned right around and created a 100,000+ per year job that he was "uniquely" qualified to do, they take care of their own at the expense of the taxpayer all over the country....THAT'S why the public is revolted by their behavior and are in full support of reigning in their collective bargaining BS.

For your info I'm a Democrat and have been my whole life. I just find it despicable that teachers unions will screw over children at the drop of a hat to try and extort more money that isn't available.

No they don't. Period. What they do is BARGAIN. The school district does not have to agree with anything they don't want to. But once an agreement is reached it is incumbent on both parties to honor it.

As far as the rest, ALL drugs should be decriminalised, ANYONE should be free to marry whom they wish (my daughters godmother is lesbian), I live in a state where prostituton is legal in most counties (and I feel it should be legalised Statewide), abortion is legal here and I support it, but for a reason counter to yours I am sure and that is the State that has the power to say it is illegal also has the power to say you must have an abortion, al a China.

I agree.

How about you Chief, how about gun rights. Should people who are not felons and who are not monitored by the mental health system of the US and its various States be allowed to own any type of firearm they wish to include machineguns? Hmm? Let's see just how into persoanal freedoms and personal responsibilities you are.

If you're asking me if the 2nd Amendment is an absolute right then I would disagree. Otherwise 10 year old children would have to be allowed to carry since they have Consitutional rights too. Also the 2nd Amendment say nothing about guns. It says ARMS. That means that if you took it literally I should be able to buy anti-aircraft weaponry, artillery, etc. So no, it's not an absolute right. I strongly support CC laws though.

And finally to the point, schools are supposed to bhe governed locally but ALL are beholden to powere far, far away. They all must teach to a federally approved curriculum, and all must have teachers certified by the various teachers unions. It is nearly impossible to fire bad teachers. The unions protect them. Google bad teachers and you will see all over the country where horrible teachers are shuffled from one school to the next, kind of like the Catholic Church and how it shuffled pedophile priests from one parish to the next, intgeresting how you villify (rightly so) the Church for doing exactly the same thing as the teachers unions with nearly the same harm commited in some cases (look up convicted New York teachers for that, who are still on the payroll, at least they are made to sit in a room and not teach anymore, but they still get to pull down their full salaries).
The school boards here are also corrupted, recently a principle was arrested for DUI and drug charges, so the School Board rightly removed him from his job but then turned right around and created a 100,000+ per year job that he was "uniquely" qualified to do, they take care of their own at the expense of the taxpayer all over the country....THAT'S why the public is revolted by their behavior and are in full support of reigning in their collective bargaining BS.

I agree that one can find extreme cases to make a point. Here are mine.

I personally know of a principal who deliberately gave a new, GOOD, popular non-tenured teacher a bad review because his niece was out of a job and he wanted to hire her. So with the bad review the new teacher had a hard time finding another job.

Another principal consistently favored one teacher on job assignments, schedules, etc. It turned out they were having an affair.

My point is that without the checks and balances that unions provide jobs would be nothing more than political patronage for principals and school board members. That's why unions were created and needed in the first place.

.

 

[DaGoose]

I guess the teachers getting laid off will have to move where the jobs are. I know the union might not be able to hold their hand through the whole process, but they should be able to draw on their exceptional intelligence to figure it out.

Which is goood for them since nearly 100% of teachers I know (and I know many) have "exceptional intelligence" AND dedication to their profession.

.

Then I'm not sure what you are crying about?

Who's crying? I'm just stating facts.


.

 

[westwall]

The point I'm trying to make is that ALL schools are governed locally. They are financed mostly through local property taxes. You and the Neo-Cons make it sound like they're this big state and federal utopia for waste and bad teachers. And that is patently false. There are very few bad teachers. There are TONS of bad parents.

It's all about local control chief. You want to complain about a teacher? Some money waste you saw? School rules? Pick up the phone and make a local call your neighbor who happens to be on the board.

And as for you....Since you're for so much freedom you'll agree with me that laws against abortion, euthanasia, prostitution and marijuana are wrong? Or do you just parrot the Neo-Con talking points and really don't stand for personal freedom?


.

For your info I'm a Democrat and have been my whole life. I just find it despicable that teachers unions will screw over children at the drop of a hat to try and extort more money that isn't available. As far as the rest, ALL drugs should be decriminalised, ANYONE should be free to marry whom they wish (my daughters godmother is lesbian), I live in a state where prostituton is legal in most counties (and I feel it should be legalised Statewide), abortion is legal here and I support it, but for a reason counter to yours I am sure and that is the State that has the power to say it is illegal also has the power to say you must have an abortion, al a China.

How about you Chief, how about gun rights. Should people who are not felons and who are not monitored by the mental health system of the US and its various States be allowed to own any type of firearm they wish to include machineguns? Hmm? Let's see just how into persoanal freedoms and personal responsibilities you are.


And finally to the point, schools are supposed to bhe governed locally but ALL are beholden to powere far, far away. They all must teach to a federally approved curriculum, and all must have teachers certified by the various teachers unions. It is nearly impossible to fire bad teachers. The unions protect them. Google bad teachers and you will see all over the country where horrible teachers are shuffled from one school to the next, kind of like the Catholic Church and how it shuffled pedophile priests from one parish to the next, intgeresting how you villify (rightly so) the Church for doing exactly the same thing as the teachers unions with nearly the same harm commited in some cases (look up convicted New York teachers for that, who are still on the payroll, at least they are made to sit in a room and not teach anymore, but they still get to pull down their full salaries).

The school boards here are also corrupted, recently a principle was arrested for DUI and drug charges, so the School Board rightly removed him from his job but then turned right around and created a 100,000+ per year job that he was "uniquely" qualified to do, they take care of their own at the expense of the taxpayer all over the country....THAT'S why the public is revolted by their behavior and are in full support of reigning in their collective bargaining BS.

No they don't. Period. What they do is BARGAIN. The school district does not have to agree with anything they don't want to. But once an agreement is reached it is incumbent on both parties to honor it.



I agree.

How about you Chief, how about gun rights. Should people who are not felons and who are not monitored by the mental health system of the US and its various States be allowed to own any type of firearm they wish to include machineguns? Hmm? Let's see just how into persoanal freedoms and personal responsibilities you are.

If you're asking me if the 2nd Amendment is an absolute right then I would disagree. Otherwise 10 year old children would have to be allowed to carry since they have Consitutional rights too. Also the 2nd Amendment say nothing about guns. It says ARMS. That means that if you took it literally I should be able to buy anti-aircraft weaponry, artillery, etc. So no, it's not an absolute right. I strongly support CC laws though.

And finally to the point, schools are supposed to bhe governed locally but ALL are beholden to powere far, far away. They all must teach to a federally approved curriculum, and all must have teachers certified by the various teachers unions. It is nearly impossible to fire bad teachers. The unions protect them. Google bad teachers and you will see all over the country where horrible teachers are shuffled from one school to the next, kind of like the Catholic Church and how it shuffled pedophile priests from one parish to the next, intgeresting how you villify (rightly so) the Church for doing exactly the same thing as the teachers unions with nearly the same harm commited in some cases (look up convicted New York teachers for that, who are still on the payroll, at least they are made to sit in a room and not teach anymore, but they still get to pull down their full salaries).
The school boards here are also corrupted, recently a principle was arrested for DUI and drug charges, so the School Board rightly removed him from his job but then turned right around and created a 100,000+ per year job that he was "uniquely" qualified to do, they take care of their own at the expense of the taxpayer all over the country....THAT'S why the public is revolted by their behavior and are in full support of reigning in their collective bargaining BS.

I agree that one can find extreme cases to make a point. Here are mine.

I personally know of a principal who deliberately gave a new, GOOD, popular non-tenured teacher a bad review because his niece was out of a job and he wanted to hire her. So with the bad review the new teacher had a hard time finding another job.

Another principal consistently favored one teacher on job assignments, schedules, etc. It turned out they were having an affair.

My point is that without the checks and balances that unions provide jobs would be nothing more than political patronage for principals and school board members. That's why unions were created and needed in the first place.

.

Out here we have education administrators making twenty times as much money as the Governor. I wonder who has the tougher job? I wonder who is being overpaid? We have teachers with tenure who are awful pulling down well over 100k.

Even your hero Roosevelt thought collective bargaining for Public Employees should not be allowed to happen. Bargaining the way it is done nationwide is "you get us the benefits we want and we'll make sure we donate millions to your campaign fund. We will also very strenuously suggest that our membership vote for you...or stuff ballot boxes for you, whichever works best.

The 2nd Amendment uses the term Arms for a very important reason. "Arms" is an age old term for firearms which are rifles shotguns and handguns. Artillery, anti aircraft artillery, missiles etc. are classified as "ordnance" and have been since the 1400's so that argument doesn't wash, nice try though. As far as the child aspect goes, the Militia was considered anyone of 18 years ago to the age of 65 so if you wanted to get really technical you could make the attempt that only those between those ages could have arms, but the intent of the original founders is clear. Children did not have the right but adults did. So once again your argument fails. Looks like I am more in favor of individual rights then you eh!

Finally to your point, there are far more examples of bad teachers being protected then the types you gave. I agree that both are wrong. However the unions have so alienated the general public by their antics that they are going to continue to lose ground nationwide. And they should. My dad was a Teamster for 40 years and had a good job with a good company. The local teamsters union decided to strike for more money even though the owner of the company opened the books to them to show he was barely scraping by. They decided he was lying so struck anyway. He closed the shop up and put 300 people out of work. My dad was the only person that the owner got a job for because my dad was a loyal worker who despised the union work rules that allowed 22% of the shops workforce to lounge around all day collecting a paycheck for doing nothing.

The unions have screwed the regular folks over for too long and it is now their time to get reigned back in, and it is happening as we speak.

 

[DaGoose]

For your info I'm a Democrat and have been my whole life. I just find it despicable that teachers unions will screw over children at the drop of a hat to try and extort more money that isn't available. As far as the rest, ALL drugs should be decriminalised, ANYONE should be free to marry whom they wish (my daughters godmother is lesbian), I live in a state where prostituton is legal in most counties (and I feel it should be legalised Statewide), abortion is legal here and I support it, but for a reason counter to yours I am sure and that is the State that has the power to say it is illegal also has the power to say you must have an abortion, al a China.

How about you Chief, how about gun rights. Should people who are not felons and who are not monitored by the mental health system of the US and its various States be allowed to own any type of firearm they wish to include machineguns? Hmm? Let's see just how into persoanal freedoms and personal responsibilities you are.


And finally to the point, schools are supposed to bhe governed locally but ALL are beholden to powere far, far away. They all must teach to a federally approved curriculum, and all must have teachers certified by the various teachers unions. It is nearly impossible to fire bad teachers. The unions protect them. Google bad teachers and you will see all over the country where horrible teachers are shuffled from one school to the next, kind of like the Catholic Church and how it shuffled pedophile priests from one parish to the next, intgeresting how you villify (rightly so) the Church for doing exactly the same thing as the teachers unions with nearly the same harm commited in some cases (look up convicted New York teachers for that, who are still on the payroll, at least they are made to sit in a room and not teach anymore, but they still get to pull down their full salaries).

The school boards here are also corrupted, recently a principle was arrested for DUI and drug charges, so the School Board rightly removed him from his job but then turned right around and created a 100,000+ per year job that he was "uniquely" qualified to do, they take care of their own at the expense of the taxpayer all over the country....THAT'S why the public is revolted by their behavior and are in full support of reigning in their collective bargaining BS.

No they don't. Period. What they do is BARGAIN. The school district does not have to agree with anything they don't want to. But once an agreement is reached it is incumbent on both parties to honor it.



I agree.



If you're asking me if the 2nd Amendment is an absolute right then I would disagree. Otherwise 10 year old children would have to be allowed to carry since they have Consitutional rights too. Also the 2nd Amendment say nothing about guns. It says ARMS. That means that if you took it literally I should be able to buy anti-aircraft weaponry, artillery, etc. So no, it's not an absolute right. I strongly support CC laws though.

And finally to the point, schools are supposed to bhe governed locally but ALL are beholden to powere far, far away. They all must teach to a federally approved curriculum, and all must have teachers certified by the various teachers unions. It is nearly impossible to fire bad teachers. The unions protect them. Google bad teachers and you will see all over the country where horrible teachers are shuffled from one school to the next, kind of like the Catholic Church and how it shuffled pedophile priests from one parish to the next, intgeresting how you villify (rightly so) the Church for doing exactly the same thing as the teachers unions with nearly the same harm commited in some cases (look up convicted New York teachers for that, who are still on the payroll, at least they are made to sit in a room and not teach anymore, but they still get to pull down their full salaries).
The school boards here are also corrupted, recently a principle was arrested for DUI and drug charges, so the School Board rightly removed him from his job but then turned right around and created a 100,000+ per year job that he was "uniquely" qualified to do, they take care of their own at the expense of the taxpayer all over the country....THAT'S why the public is revolted by their behavior and are in full support of reigning in their collective bargaining BS.

I agree that one can find extreme cases to make a point. Here are mine.

I personally know of a principal who deliberately gave a new, GOOD, popular non-tenured teacher a bad review because his niece was out of a job and he wanted to hire her. So with the bad review the new teacher had a hard time finding another job.

Another principal consistently favored one teacher on job assignments, schedules, etc. It turned out they were having an affair.

My point is that without the checks and balances that unions provide jobs would be nothing more than political patronage for principals and school board members. That's why unions were created and needed in the first place.

.

Out here we have education administrators making twenty times as much money as the Governor. I wonder who has the tougher job? I wonder who is being overpaid? We have teachers with tenure who are awful pulling down well over 100k.

Even your hero Roosevelt thought collective bargaining for Public Employees should not be allowed to happen. Bargaining the way it is done nationwide is "you get us the benefits we want and we'll make sure we donate millions to your campaign fund. We will also very strenuously suggest that our membership vote for you...or stuff ballot boxes for you, whichever works best.

The 2nd Amendment uses the term Arms for a very important reason. "Arms" is an age old term for firearms which are rifles shotguns and handguns. Artillery, anti aircraft artillery, missiles etc. are classified as "ordnance" and have been since the 1400's so that argument doesn't wash, nice try though. As far as the child aspect goes, the Militia was considered anyone of 18 years ago to the age of 65 so if you wanted to get really technical you could make the attempt that only those between those ages could have arms, but the intent of the original founders is clear. Children did not have the right but adults did. So once again your argument fails. Looks like I am more in favor of individual rights then you eh!

Finally to your point, there are far more examples of bad teachers being protected then the types you gave. I agree that both are wrong. However the unions have so alienated the general public by their antics that they are going to continue to lose ground nationwide. And they should. My dad was a Teamster for 40 years and had a good job with a good company. The local teamsters union decided to strike for more money even though the owner of the company opened the books to them to show he was barely scraping by. They decided he was lying so struck anyway. He closed the shop up and put 300 people out of work. My dad was the only person that the owner got a job for because my dad was a loyal worker who despised the union work rules that allowed 22% of the shops workforce to lounge around all day collecting a paycheck for doing nothing.

The unions have screwed the regular folks over for too long and it is now their time to get reigned back in, and it is happening as we speak.

1) Uhhh....administrators are not part of the union.

2) What makes you think that Roosevelt is my hero? Please explain your assumption.

3) I'll accept your 2nd Amendment argument as soon as you locate a definition of ARMS that says the same thing you just did. If not then you must admit you simply made it up.

4) Unions have done far more good for the workers than bad. To say they lost their effectiveness is to say the Constitution has lost its effectiveness. You sound like you have a problem being grateful.

5) According to the polls you're wrong about how the public feels about unions but why speculate? We'll wait to see what happens with the recalls in Wisconsin.

.

 

[Jarhead]

Goose...

your:

4) Unions have done far more good for the workers than bad. To say they lost their effectiveness is to say the Constitution has lost its effectiveness. You sound like you have a problem being grateful.

As I see it...they did great job at the beginning and opened the eyes of our legislators who have since enacted labor laws that prevent child labor and sweat shops, set a minimum wage and establish equality laws, including exempt and non exempt status, etc.

Now? Unions do nothing but try to push the envelope.

They have overstayed their welcome in my eyes.

 

[westwall]

No they don't. Period. What they do is BARGAIN. The school district does not have to agree with anything they don't want to. But once an agreement is reached it is incumbent on both parties to honor it.



I agree.



If you're asking me if the 2nd Amendment is an absolute right then I would disagree. Otherwise 10 year old children would have to be allowed to carry since they have Consitutional rights too. Also the 2nd Amendment say nothing about guns. It says ARMS. That means that if you took it literally I should be able to buy anti-aircraft weaponry, artillery, etc. So no, it's not an absolute right. I strongly support CC laws though.



I agree that one can find extreme cases to make a point. Here are mine.

I personally know of a principal who deliberately gave a new, GOOD, popular non-tenured teacher a bad review because his niece was out of a job and he wanted to hire her. So with the bad review the new teacher had a hard time finding another job.

Another principal consistently favored one teacher on job assignments, schedules, etc. It turned out they were having an affair.

My point is that without the checks and balances that unions provide jobs would be nothing more than political patronage for principals and school board members. That's why unions were created and needed in the first place.

.

Out here we have education administrators making twenty times as much money as the Governor. I wonder who has the tougher job? I wonder who is being overpaid? We have teachers with tenure who are awful pulling down well over 100k.

Even your hero Roosevelt thought collective bargaining for Public Employees should not be allowed to happen. Bargaining the way it is done nationwide is "you get us the benefits we want and we'll make sure we donate millions to your campaign fund. We will also very strenuously suggest that our membership vote for you...or stuff ballot boxes for you, whichever works best.

The 2nd Amendment uses the term Arms for a very important reason. "Arms" is an age old term for firearms which are rifles shotguns and handguns. Artillery, anti aircraft artillery, missiles etc. are classified as "ordnance" and have been since the 1400's so that argument doesn't wash, nice try though. As far as the child aspect goes, the Militia was considered anyone of 18 years ago to the age of 65 so if you wanted to get really technical you could make the attempt that only those between those ages could have arms, but the intent of the original founders is clear. Children did not have the right but adults did. So once again your argument fails. Looks like I am more in favor of individual rights then you eh!

Finally to your point, there are far more examples of bad teachers being protected then the types you gave. I agree that both are wrong. However the unions have so alienated the general public by their antics that they are going to continue to lose ground nationwide. And they should. My dad was a Teamster for 40 years and had a good job with a good company. The local teamsters union decided to strike for more money even though the owner of the company opened the books to them to show he was barely scraping by. They decided he was lying so struck anyway. He closed the shop up and put 300 people out of work. My dad was the only person that the owner got a job for because my dad was a loyal worker who despised the union work rules that allowed 22% of the shops workforce to lounge around all day collecting a paycheck for doing nothing.

The unions have screwed the regular folks over for too long and it is now their time to get reigned back in, and it is happening as we speak.

1) Uhhh....administrators are not part of the union.

2) What makes you think that Roosevelt is my hero? Please explain your assumption.

3) I'll accept your 2nd Amendment argument as soon as you locate a definition of ARMS that says the same thing you just did. If not then you must admit you simply made it up.

4) Unions have done far more good for the workers than bad. To say they lost their effectiveness is to say the Constitution has lost its effectiveness. You sound like you have a problem being grateful.

5) According to the polls you're wrong about how the public feels about unions but why speculate? We'll wait to see what happens with the recalls in Wisconsin.

.

Definition:
Small arms are man portable or vehicle mounted light weapons, designed primarily for anti-personnel use. Small arms include rifles, pistols and light machine guns.

Related:
Machine Guns, Small Arms and Sights


Small Arms - Glossary Definition - Army Technology

Definition:
Ordnance refers to ammunition for weapons as well as explosives and other similar items.

Related:
Ammunition and Fuzes
Artillery and Mortars Explosive Ordnance and Bomb Disposal
Explosive Ordnance Disposal and Mine Clearance
Explosives, Powders and Propellants

Ordnance - Glossary Definition - Army Technology

 

[DaGoose]

Out here we have education administrators making twenty times as much money as the Governor. I wonder who has the tougher job? I wonder who is being overpaid? We have teachers with tenure who are awful pulling down well over 100k.

Even your hero Roosevelt thought collective bargaining for Public Employees should not be allowed to happen. Bargaining the way it is done nationwide is "you get us the benefits we want and we'll make sure we donate millions to your campaign fund. We will also very strenuously suggest that our membership vote for you...or stuff ballot boxes for you, whichever works best.

The 2nd Amendment uses the term Arms for a very important reason. "Arms" is an age old term for firearms which are rifles shotguns and handguns. Artillery, anti aircraft artillery, missiles etc. are classified as "ordnance" and have been since the 1400's so that argument doesn't wash, nice try though. As far as the child aspect goes, the Militia was considered anyone of 18 years ago to the age of 65 so if you wanted to get really technical you could make the attempt that only those between those ages could have arms, but the intent of the original founders is clear. Children did not have the right but adults did. So once again your argument fails. Looks like I am more in favor of individual rights then you eh!

Finally to your point, there are far more examples of bad teachers being protected then the types you gave. I agree that both are wrong. However the unions have so alienated the general public by their antics that they are going to continue to lose ground nationwide. And they should. My dad was a Teamster for 40 years and had a good job with a good company. The local teamsters union decided to strike for more money even though the owner of the company opened the books to them to show he was barely scraping by. They decided he was lying so struck anyway. He closed the shop up and put 300 people out of work. My dad was the only person that the owner got a job for because my dad was a loyal worker who despised the union work rules that allowed 22% of the shops workforce to lounge around all day collecting a paycheck for doing nothing.

The unions have screwed the regular folks over for too long and it is now their time to get reigned back in, and it is happening as we speak.

1) Uhhh....administrators are not part of the union.

2) What makes you think that Roosevelt is my hero? Please explain your assumption.

3) I'll accept your 2nd Amendment argument as soon as you locate a definition of ARMS that says the same thing you just did. If not then you must admit you simply made it up.

4) Unions have done far more good for the workers than bad. To say they lost their effectiveness is to say the Constitution has lost its effectiveness. You sound like you have a problem being grateful.

5) According to the polls you're wrong about how the public feels about unions but why speculate? We'll wait to see what happens with the recalls in Wisconsin.

.

Definition:
Small arms are man portable or vehicle mounted light weapons, designed primarily for anti-personnel use. Small arms include rifles, pistols and light machine guns.

Related:
Machine Guns, Small Arms and Sights


Small Arms - Glossary Definition - Army Technology

Definition:
Ordnance refers to ammunition for weapons as well as explosives and other similar items.

Related:
Ammunition and Fuzes
Artillery and Mortars Explosive Ordnance and Bomb Disposal
Explosive Ordnance Disposal and Mine Clearance
Explosives, Powders and Propellants

Ordnance - Glossary Definition - Army Technology

OHHH.....I see!! The Constitution was written by the army and says "small arms" and specifically talks about ordnance.

I'm sure that would hold up in court.

That was a pretty lame ass post to try and prove a point that doesn't exist. Try again.

.

 

[DaGoose]

Goose...

your:

4) Unions have done far more good for the workers than bad. To say they lost their effectiveness is to say the Constitution has lost its effectiveness. You sound like you have a problem being grateful.

As I see it...they did great job at the beginning and opened the eyes of our legislators who have since enacted labor laws that prevent child labor and sweat shops, set a minimum wage and establish equality laws, including exempt and non exempt status, etc.

Now? Unions do nothing but try to push the envelope.

They have overstayed their welcome in my eyes.

Not in my eyes.

.

 

[westwall]

1) Uhhh....administrators are not part of the union.

2) What makes you think that Roosevelt is my hero? Please explain your assumption.

3) I'll accept your 2nd Amendment argument as soon as you locate a definition of ARMS that says the same thing you just did. If not then you must admit you simply made it up.

4) Unions have done far more good for the workers than bad. To say they lost their effectiveness is to say the Constitution has lost its effectiveness. You sound like you have a problem being grateful.

5) According to the polls you're wrong about how the public feels about unions but why speculate? We'll wait to see what happens with the recalls in Wisconsin.

.

Definition:
Small arms are man portable or vehicle mounted light weapons, designed primarily for anti-personnel use. Small arms include rifles, pistols and light machine guns.

Related:
Machine Guns, Small Arms and Sights


Small Arms - Glossary Definition - Army Technology

Definition:
Ordnance refers to ammunition for weapons as well as explosives and other similar items.

Related:
Ammunition and Fuzes
Artillery and Mortars Explosive Ordnance and Bomb Disposal
Explosive Ordnance Disposal and Mine Clearance
Explosives, Powders and Propellants

Ordnance - Glossary Definition - Army Technology

OHHH.....I see!! The Constitution was written by the army and says "small arms" and specifically talks about ordnance.

I'm sure that would hold up in court.

That was a pretty lame ass post to try and prove a point that doesn't exist. Try again.

.

Fine, how about the Houghton Mifflin Dictionary....

small arm

NOUN:

A firearm that can be carried in the hand.


small arm - Dictionary definition and pronunciation - Yahoo! Education


ord·nance (ôrdnns) KEY

NOUN:

Military materiel, such as weapons, ammunition, combat vehicles, and equipment.
The branch of an armed force that procures, maintains, and issues weapons, ammunition, and combat vehicles.
Cannon; artillery.

Dictionary - Yahoo! Education

Anything else?