What's Happening With Britain And The US?

[NATO AIR]

this is highly disturbing... what's going on here? what can we do to fix this?
how much truth is there to this article?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6315335/site/newsweek/

The Creaky Coalition
Allies are getting balky about following America's leadBy Stryker McGuire
NewsweekNov. 1 issue - America's 138,000 troops in Iraq were asking for a little help from their British friends. Could an 850-strong armored battalion of Scotland's Black Watch Regiment please be redeployed from Basra, in southern Iraq, to the outskirts of Baghdad? The request seemed straightforward enough. Yet it triggered another political crisis for Prime Minister Tony Blair last week. As British commanders weighed the American request, London editors wrote scaremongering headlines about the Black Watch's walking into a "Triangle of Death." Blair's critics charged that acceding to the U.S. request would amount to an election-eve boost to Bush's presidential campaign. Is it not time "to say 'no' to the Americans?" one Labour Party M.P. demanded of Blair.

The prime minister didn't cave. But a new conventional wisdom is taking hold among Britain's military and foreign-policy elite: even if John Kerry defeats Bush, any British government will find it difficult, if not impossible, to muster popular support for a future American-led military intervention. A senior British diplomat put it bluntly to NEWSWEEK: "Never again."

BY THE NUMBERS Troops in Iraq

Which countries are providing military support
United States 138,000
Britain 8,530
Albania 70
Australia 850
Azerbaijan 150
Bulgaria 455
Czech Rep. 92
Denmark 510
Dominican Rep. 300
El Salvador 360
Estonia 55
Georgia 150
Hungary 300
Italy 2,700
Japan 1,000
Kazakhstan 25
Latvia 120
Lithuania 105
Macedonia 28
Moldova 25
Mongolia 180
Netherlands 1,263
New Zealand 60
Nicaragua 115
Norway 150
Poland 2,400
Portugal 120
Romania 730
Singapore 200
Slovakia 105
South Korea 675 (3,000 on way)
Thailand 460
Tonga 44
Ukraine 1,700


Sources: Reuters news reports/GlobalSecurity.org. • Print this

Other members of Bush's Coalition of the Willing are getting balky, too. A total of 29 countries now have troops in Iraq, including Britain's 8,300. After pro-war Spanish Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar was voted out of office earlier this year, the new government withdrew all of Spain's 1,300 troops. Honduras and the Dominican Republic then brought home their small contingents. Under mounting domestic pressure, Italy (2,700 troops), Poland (2,500), Ukraine (1,600), the Czech Republic (100) and Slovakia (105) have hinted at troop reductions next year. The Coalition's Potemkin-village quality is perhaps best illustrated by Japan's contribution: 600 Self-Defense Force troops. By law, they cannot instigate combat, and have not fired a single shot in anger. In fact, troops from the Netherlands' 500-strong contingent are deployed around the SDF compound in southern Iraq to provide an extra layer of security for the Japanese.

Blair's fealty to Bush barely masks serious disagreements between the American and the British governments. In private, senior British military commanders have strongly criticized the United States' "overwhelming force" tactics in Iraq. Senior British Foreign Service officers have despaired at the post-9/11 collapse of American diplomacy. For Washington, it's one thing to see Thailand and New Zealand pulling troops out of Iraq. It's quite another to have Britain questioning its "special relationship" with the United States.

With Rod Nordland and Sarah Sennott in London and bureau reports

© 2004 Newsweek, Inc.

 

[Avatar4321]

Anyone see SNL the other night with President Bush and Tony Blair's press conference? haha that was good.

as for whats going on between USA and the UK, i dont know. perhaps the socialist propaganda is starting to weaken their resolve.

 

[NATO AIR]

Anyone see SNL the other night with President Bush and Tony Blair's press conference? haha that was good.

as for whats going on between USA and the UK, i dont know. perhaps the socialist propaganda is starting to weaken their resolve.

i am sickened by this though, losing the brits is not something i want to stomach at this point. i do believe you are right about the socialists though.

 

[onedomino]

Anti-Americanism is certainly nothing new in the UK; particularly from the British left. It pre-dates GW Bush by decades. Recent, however, is the almost universal disapproval shown for America in the UK media. This anti-American attitude is visceral and extends throughout Western Europe. The fall of the Soviet Union has unleashed an anti-American political and media whirlwind in socialist Western Europe. US protection is no longer necessary and anti-American attitudes now have free reign.

Certainly some of these negative feelings stem from envy of the most successful nation in world history. An American nation that is not socialist. The US is a nation whose very success belies the European tendency to collectivism and manifest distain for the rights and aspirations of the individual. European anti-Americanism is often irrational: seventy percent of Nobel Prize winners are American, yet European intellectuals consider us stupid, uncultured “cowboys.”

Beyond envy, there is fear. Europeans are afraid of an America that is so powerful it alone can do almost anything on the world stage. It does not matter that American power is largely benign. It is the overwhelming magnitude of American power that Europeans fear. The lack of any real political, economic, or military levers on American international behavior intensifies the fear of European impotency. This is why Europeans howl at the moon when America acts unilaterally. It makes no difference, for example, that Kyoto emissions have increased in Europe. What causes European fear is that America has the political and economic strength to ignore the protocol. Most of all, though, Europeans fear the “Americanization” of the planet. This attitude is especially prevalent in the French. American culture is a pervasive worldwide reality that makes Europeans fear that their cultures will drown in a Yankee sea of music, movies, software, clothes, and hamburgers.

Hatred of the US also springs from 1000 years of European anti-Semitism. America is seen as the defender of the Israeli state. It makes no difference to the Europeans that Israel was created by the UN and that three of the five UNSC members were European. Germans, for example, want to believe that the cowboys have acted illegally by invading Iraq. It helps to relieve the socio-psychological pressure of their recent history.

I could post any of hundreds of articles about European anti-Americanism. Here is one from the BBC, published in 2003:

Anti-Americanism 'Dangerous'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/3018367.stm

Continued anti-Americanism could result in the US disengaging from the rest of the world with "dangerous" consequences, Nato General Secretary Lord Robertson has warned.
He was commenting on the threat to world order posed by the continuing rift between Europe and the US in the wake of the Iraq war.
Relations between America and France reached an all time low following French President Jacques Chirac's outspoken criticism of the US-led conflict.
UK Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said he was concerned about "trite anti-Americanism" in the UK, arguing it had "become fashionable".
Lord Robertson and Mr. Straw were speaking in "Which Way are We Facing", a BBC Radio 4 program examining the British public's attitudes to the US and to Europe.
The program, to be broadcast at 1900GMT on Monday, also looks at how much British anti-Americanism there is.
'Generic attack'
Lord Robertson, a former UK defense secretary, said: "Anti-Americanism I see not as a criticism of individual policies or even an individual president. It's a sort of racialist view that the USA is wrong in principle and wrong in practice.
"It is a generic attack on America and American standards and American values and approaches.
"I'm very worried about anti-Americanism because I think it is deeply corrosive to a relationship that is critically important for the overall security of the world.
"These attitudes are deeply worrying, deeply corrosive and have to be tackled head on. If they're not, then the future is bleak indeed.
"If they continue to be criticized in that unreasoning and emotive way then I see disengagement being the outcome and that being much more dangerous to all of us than American involvement or interventionism."
Mr Straw echoed this concern and reminded people of the "immense" contribution made by the US "for the good".
'Obsession'
"I am worried about trite anti-Americanism in this country," he told the program.
"I think that people get obsessed about the United States because of its immense wealth and power. I think it's just become fashionable, this kind of anti-Americanism, and it's a convenient parody.
"If you look at the United States of course there are things that we would not necessarily approve of, but if you look at the US's contribution to where we are today, it has been immense and for the good.
"First of all they did literally save Europe from the most terrible tyranny in the Second World War but in addition if you look at IT, you look at biotech, the things that these days keep us going, make our lives happier and healthier, it's to America that we owe a huge amount.
"People need to remember that."

 

[NATO AIR]

you are speaking truth onedomino. painful truth though.

at least there are wise men like lord robertson and jack straw (and tony blair) in key positions. let's just hope there are more like them out there, somewhere.

 

[Kentucky]

The EU, as led by France and Germany, is forming up as a state beligerent to US interests. This rift will widen as the EU assumes the role of the old Soviet Union in attempting to counter the US on a global scale.

The UK is caught in the middle and must soon choose one side of the Atlantic or the other. The current political regime recognizes a greater alliance with the US while the populace more readily identifies with their local neighbors. I think that, as with any representative government, the will of the populace will ultimately prevail and the UK will adopt a government that is more like that of France/Germany.

If that happens, it will signal a historic break in relations between the US and Europe. This was the principal point in Blair's address to the EU a couple of days ago.

 

[NATO AIR]

The EU, as led by France and Germany, is forming up as a state beligerent to US interests. This rift will widen as the EU assumes the role of the old Soviet Union in attempting to counter the US on a global scale.

The UK is caught in the middle and must soon choose one side of the Atlantic or the other. The current political regime recognizes a greater alliance with the US while the populace more readily identifies with their local neighbors. I think that, as with any representative government, the will of the populace will ultimately prevail and the UK will adopt a government that is more like that of France/Germany.

If that happens, it will signal a historic break in relations between the US and Europe. This was the principal point in Blair's address to the EU a couple of days ago.

we shall see what happens, let us hope the french and germans overplay their hand with the british public.

 

[theim]

The EU will not stand a chance against America.

Before I explain why, though, I must ask: Why do they want to fight us (militarily if they were able to, currently economically and politically)? We have not invaded or annexed any European country. We have not really done anything to provoke such hatred. I can think of only 2 things:

1) Defeated the USSR, world beacon of Socialism.
2) Defeating Iraq, source of sweet, albeit ILLEGAL, oil deals.

The EU will never be able to compete with America, unless a Democrat is elected President. The socialist governments of France and Germany are teetering on the edge of collapse. France's economy is in shambles, and people take to the streets and riot at any sign of cutting their "benefits", which are bankrupting the country. Germany is experiencing symptoms such as the 1930's: low ecomomic power, high inflation, high unemployment, and the Neo-Nazi Party is making headways among the nations youth. For the EU to be run as these 2 nations...it will not work. If Britain wants to join them (as I think they eventually will) , it will be most unfortunate, but not a major blow to our country. Just one less proxy-ally. Look at it like this:

American power is like a bodybuilder who has worked for all his life. He has made the right choices throughout. He has trained and practiced constantly.

European power is like a guy using steroids to get strong. Temporarily, he will convey a sense of strength and power. Eventually in the near future he will become weak again, and sickly. He will be worse off than he was before.

 

[wolvie20m]

It sort of reminds me about WWII, France is like Hitler protesting against the Jews. Except it's not really Jews, it's America. It's all good though I think we can do a good job on being a self-sustaining country.

 

[Kentucky]

It sort of reminds me about WWII, France is like Hitler protesting against the Jews. Except it's not really Jews, it's America. It's all good though I think we can do a good job on being a self-sustaining country.

wolvie20m makes a good point here. Numerous forces are driving EU policies. One of them is a history of anti-Semitism that goes back 1,000 years. America's support of Israel, as well as the prominent economic success and influence of some American jews, aligns with that ingrained anit-Semitism and is expressed as anti-Americanism. It doesn't explain all of the anti-American feelings, but it is one part of the explanation.

 

[taff]

How can you dissmiss the support the British have given you so casualy.I know for a fact that America is becoming more and more popular for the British public as a holiday destination, so much so that Gordon Brown the chancellor of the exchequer is trying to lift the 148 pound customs limit on goods being brought into the EU because so many Brits are favouring Holidaying and shopping in the US.Hardly sounds anti american does it . Sure you,ll find negative reports about Britains involvement in Iraq.But Iraq is now being used as a political weapon by the tories againt Tony Blair.

But worst of all is tarring us with the same brush as the Germans and the French. Trust me , they have hated the brits a helluva lot longer than the US.Not long ago a top parisian radio station banned all english music from getting any air time. Funny enough after a couple of hours and thousands of complaints they started playing them again. Makes you laugh dont they.

Anyway ive never posted on here before but felt compelled to do so after reading this thread.All the best. Taff

 

[no1tovote4]

How can you dissmiss the support the British have given you so casualy.I know for a fact that America is becoming more and more popular for the British public as a holiday destination, so much so that Gordon Brown the chancellor of the exchequer is trying to lift the 148 pound customs limit on goods being brought into the EU because so many Brits are favouring Holidaying and shopping in the US.Hardly sounds anti american does it . Sure you,ll find negative reports about Britains involvement in Iraq.But Iraq is now being used as a political weapon by the tories againt Tony Blair.

But worst of all is tarring us with the same brush as the Germans and the French. Trust me , they have hated the brits a helluva lot longer than the US.Not long ago a top parisian radio station banned all english music from getting any air time. Funny enough after a couple of hours and thousands of complaints they started playing them again. Makes you laugh dont they.

Anyway ive never posted on here before but felt compelled to do so after reading this thread.All the best. Taff

There are many here that would thank the Brits for their staunch support over all the years. Whenever we need a hand, an ally, and support the Brits and Aussies are always the first to step up to the plate. In all our humanitarian efforts as well as Security efforts they are always there. The Brits are a good ally and friend to the US.

 

[NATO AIR]

There are many here that would thank the Brits for their staunch support over all the years. Whenever we need a hand, an ally, and support the Brits and Aussies are always the first to step up to the plate. In all our humanitarian efforts as well as Security efforts they are always there. The Brits are a good ally and friend to the US.

Amen, they are great allies and we are better having them stand alongside us.

 

[j07950]

This is beggining to ressemble as another anti-europen(without England) and anti-french thread...care to even get another point of view on some stuff or are you content with your own theories?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

This is beggining to ressemble as another anti-europen(without England) and anti-french thread...care to even get another point of view on some stuff or are you content with your own theories?

OUr theories are superior. We've heard all the left wing crap before. It's all poorly thoughtout and intellectually constricted.

 

[j07950]

OUr theories are superior. We've heard all the left wing crap before. It's all poorly thoughtout and intellectually constricted.

Didn't expect less coming from you...
By the way I'd just like to remind you that the French government in power is right wing...just thought I'd let you know.

 

[Said1]

This is beggining to ressemble as another anti-europen(without England) and anti-french thread...care to even get another point of view on some stuff or are you content with your own theories?

Is your signature (#2) an example of another view point?

 

[j07950]

Is your signature (#2) an example of another view point?

It's in a way what I think but some of you have opened me up a little bit, although you still can't take any criticism of your government (while I can) and you blindly believe everything it says (which is admirable in a way but dead dangerous).

But that mostly concerns you guys here as the other 45-50% of US citizens (who aren't really represented in this message board) who didn't vote to re-elect Bush and his government don't all support your ideas.

 

[Said1]

It's in a way what I think but some of you have opened me up a little bit, although you still can't take any criticism of your government (while I can) and you blindly believe everything it says (which is admirable in a way but dead dangerous).

Ok, for 5th and final time, I'm CANADIAN. I guess you don't read profiles either - doh!

 

[j07950]

Ok, for 5th and final time, I'm CANADIAN. I guess you don't read profiles either - doh!

Oh right I forgot...well I'm answering for everyone else who might think like you.