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José;2298403 said:Originally posted by Nate
There are so many things wrong with the OP, I just don't know where to begin. Other than the fact this EXACT post had hit in various other message boards(didn't know which to respond to first), I have issues with people using Christianity and the Bible(or any other religion/book) like a buffet line where they pick and choose various passages to suit there own twisted agendas.
I completely understand the issues with illegal immigration just find another way to prove or voice your concerns.
And as an afterthought;
Quote:
Leviticus (19:33-4):"And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him. But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself."
The fact that so many people can't even realise the overt, blatant contradiction between that biblical passage and the point they are trying to make is far beyond my comprehension powers and will remain so forever, Nate : )
José;2298646 said:Still waiting for whatthehell or any other member who agrees with the babble he wrote to explain how Americans and America didn't violate "God's law" by immigrating illegally and annexing half of that country by brute force respectively...
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I don't agree with the OP, but as far as I am concerned he did a decent job of laying out his reasons for believing as he does.
I don't see him as having chose various passages to suit his needs. Did he rewrite or interpret the passages or simply use them as proof text?
Is there anything wrong with using the Bible or another religious book to make one's point especially when the point is how a religious figure (in this case the one about whom that particular book was written) would act under a given situation?
Personally, I think Jesus would treat illegal aliens no different than he treats me or he treated the adulteress that was to be stoned. Another thing, to be quite frank, I would rather be in the shoes of the illegal aliens than in the shoes of those who think that they are "more righteous" than any other human being including illegal aliens.
Immie
You are right Immie the passages he quoted out of the bible were not altered in any way and i may have been too harsh initially on the OP, it has always been interesting to me how one person can read the passages in the bible and come up with completely different conclusions on why or it was written. For example if you were to take the complete Romans 13 passage(which is used multiple times in the OP) you will see that "Love thy Neighbor" and "Love one another" is in it multiple times. So it confused me that it would be used to demonize illegal immigrants;
Damn, that many verses from the bible will probably send this thread to the Religion section...13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Like I said, I don't agree with his conclusion.
I think if the question were presented to Jesus, he would have done something similar to what he did when asked about whether or not one should pay taxes. I do not believe that he would condemn the illegal alien. He might tell them to go back to Mexico and apply for legal entry, but even that is not certain. He might also tell those who brought the question up that they were a brood of vipers and that they should leave the poor alone and maybe even feed them? /gasp
Immie
José;2298403 said:Originally posted by Nate
There are so many things wrong with the OP, I just don't know where to begin. Other than the fact this EXACT post had hit in various other message boards(didn't know which to respond to first), I have issues with people using Christianity and the Bible(or any other religion/book) like a buffet line where they pick and choose various passages to suit there own twisted agendas.
I completely understand the issues with illegal immigration just find another way to prove or voice your concerns.
And as an afterthought;
Quote:
Leviticus (19:33-4):"And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him. But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself."
The fact that so many people can't even realise the overt, blatant contradiction between that biblical passage and the point they are trying to make is far beyond my comprehension powers and will remain so forever, Nate : )
SOJOURN; A TEMPORARY STAY
THERE SEEM TO BE TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT.
You are right Immie the passages he quoted out of the bible were not altered in any way and i may have been too harsh initially on the OP, it has always been interesting to me how one person can read the passages in the bible and come up with completely different conclusions on why or it was written. For example if you were to take the complete Romans 13 passage(which is used multiple times in the OP) you will see that "Love thy Neighbor" and "Love one another" is in it multiple times. So it confused me that it would be used to demonize illegal immigrants;
Damn, that many verses from the bible will probably send this thread to the Religion section...
Like I said, I don't agree with his conclusion.
I think if the question were presented to Jesus, he would have done something similar to what he did when asked about whether or not one should pay taxes. I do not believe that he would condemn the illegal alien. He might tell them to go back to Mexico and apply for legal entry, but even that is not certain. He might also tell those who brought the question up that they were a brood of vipers and that they should leave the poor alone and maybe even feed them? /gasp
Immie
That depends of the meaning of "poor" Ilegal aliens are not poor in the sense that jesus ment. Even the poor has to obey the law.
WHAT WOULD JESUS DO ABOUT ILLEGAL ALIENS?
He would admonish them. Advocates and churches who are confused in the sanctuary laws instituted by GOD for murderers and do not apply today, to respect and obey our immigration laws, Superior Authorities, (government) that stand in place by him and pay their taxes just as he did. Superior Authorities exist because he allows them to exist and immigration laws do not conflict with his laws.
Our leaders are just like the Pharisees. Hypocrites.
SUPERIOR AUTHORITIES.
Rom 13;17 .let every soul be in subjection to superior authorities.
Titus 3;1..be obedient to government and authorities as rulers.
Luke 2;1-5 a decree went forth from Caesar for all the inhabited earth to be registered
Acts 24;16 I am exercising myself continually of committing no offense to GOD and men. (they are breaking our laws and GODs laws.)
Rom 13;2-4 he who opposes the authority has taken a stand against the arrangement of GOD those who have taken a stand against it will receive judgment..if you are doing what is bad, be in fear.
Christians who subject themselves to proper authority of political government receive benefits .Rom 13;3,4 .1Pet 2;12-14.
BOUNDARIES
Boundaries (borders) Boundaries were set in place by God from the beginning of time and for a reason. Gen 4;10,11....3;23,24... Gen 15;18-21. Ex 23;31..... To Abraham and his seed God promised a certain land with definitely stated boundaries. Gen 15;13-16.....would enforce an eviction decree when the error of the Amorites came to its completion. Deut 2;4,5,18,19....Jehovah God also decreed that the Israelites would not encrouch on the boundaries of the nations of Edom, .... Deut 32;8....when the Most High gave the nations an inheritance, when he parted the sons of Adam from one another, he proceeded to fix the boundary of the people with regard for the number of the sons of Israel. Eph 2;12-16....Under penalty of death, Gentiles were prohibited beyond that boundary, such wall serving the apostle as an apt illustration of the division created by the Law covenant. Isa 54;l14,15...60;18..Co 3;16,17.
TAXES
Both Jesus and the apostle Paul showed that I was proper to pay taxes to Caesaror the Superior Authorities. Matt 22;17-21.
This is the most retarded and unchristian post I have ever seen. Illegals pay taxes, so stop listening to Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity. Immigrants, even illegal immigrants, boost our economy.
They put more money into your pockets than you're capable of realizing.
too many idiots here seem to forget that AMericans came here and friggin slaughtered the indians when they had their own immigration laws in place. Then they decided to start a war with Mexico, which at the time owned Texas and virtually everything west of it. Many politicians like Abraham Lincoln and Ulysses Grant condemned that act.
So any way you slice it, you condemn Mexicans for coming here to run from starvation, then you double-condemn our ancestors who came here and slaughtered and threw around their military technology to kill off the indigenous tribes.
WHAT WOULD JESUS DO ABOUT ILLEGAL ALIENS?
He would admonish them. Advocates and churches who are confused in the sanctuary laws instituted by GOD for murderers and do not apply today, to respect and obey our immigration laws, Superior Authorities, (government) that stand in place by him and pay their taxes just as he did. Superior Authorities exist because he allows them to exist and immigration laws do not conflict with his laws.
Our leaders are just like the Pharisees. Hypocrites.
SUPERIOR AUTHORITIES.
Rom 13;17 .let every soul be in subjection to superior authorities.
Titus 3;1..be obedient to government and authorities as rulers.
Luke 2;1-5 a decree went forth from Caesar for all the inhabited earth to be registered
Acts 24;16 I am exercising myself continually of committing no offense to GOD and men. (they are breaking our laws and GODs laws.)
Rom 13;2-4 he who opposes the authority has taken a stand against the arrangement of GOD those who have taken a stand against it will receive judgment..if you are doing what is bad, be in fear.
Christians who subject themselves to proper authority of political government receive benefits .Rom 13;3,4 .1Pet 2;12-14.
BOUNDARIES
Boundaries (borders) Boundaries were set in place by God from the beginning of time and for a reason. Gen 4;10,11....3;23,24... Gen 15;18-21. Ex 23;31..... To Abraham and his seed God promised a certain land with definitely stated boundaries. Gen 15;13-16.....would enforce an eviction decree when the error of the Amorites came to its completion. Deut 2;4,5,18,19....Jehovah God also decreed that the Israelites would not encrouch on the boundaries of the nations of Edom, .... Deut 32;8....when the Most High gave the nations an inheritance, when he parted the sons of Adam from one another, he proceeded to fix the boundary of the people with regard for the number of the sons of Israel. Eph 2;12-16....Under penalty of death, Gentiles were prohibited beyond that boundary, such wall serving the apostle as an apt illustration of the division created by the Law covenant. Isa 54;l14,15...60;18..Co 3;16,17.
TAXES
Both Jesus and the apostle Paul showed that I was proper to pay taxes to Caesaror the Superior Authorities. Matt 22;17-21.
WHAT WOULD JESUS DO ABOUT ILLEGAL ALIENS?
He would admonish them. Advocates and churches who are confused in the sanctuary laws instituted by GOD for murderers and do not apply today, to respect and obey our immigration laws, Superior Authorities, (government) that stand in place by him and pay their taxes just as he did. Superior Authorities exist because he allows them to exist and immigration laws do not conflict with his laws.
Our leaders are just like the Pharisees. Hypocrites.
SUPERIOR AUTHORITIES.
Rom 13;17 .let every soul be in subjection to superior authorities.
Titus 3;1..be obedient to government and authorities as rulers.
Luke 2;1-5 a decree went forth from Caesar for all the inhabited earth to be registered
Acts 24;16 I am exercising myself continually of committing no offense to GOD and men. (they are breaking our laws and GODs laws.)
Rom 13;2-4 he who opposes the authority has taken a stand against the arrangement of GOD those who have taken a stand against it will receive judgment..if you are doing what is bad, be in fear.
Christians who subject themselves to proper authority of political government receive benefits .Rom 13;3,4 .1Pet 2;12-14.
BOUNDARIES
Boundaries (borders) Boundaries were set in place by God from the beginning of time and for a reason. Gen 4;10,11....3;23,24... Gen 15;18-21. Ex 23;31..... To Abraham and his seed God promised a certain land with definitely stated boundaries. Gen 15;13-16.....would enforce an eviction decree when the error of the Amorites came to its completion. Deut 2;4,5,18,19....Jehovah God also decreed that the Israelites would not encrouch on the boundaries of the nations of Edom, .... Deut 32;8....when the Most High gave the nations an inheritance, when he parted the sons of Adam from one another, he proceeded to fix the boundary of the people with regard for the number of the sons of Israel. Eph 2;12-16....Under penalty of death, Gentiles were prohibited beyond that boundary, such wall serving the apostle as an apt illustration of the division created by the Law covenant. Isa 54;l14,15...60;18..Co 3;16,17.
TAXES
Both Jesus and the apostle Paul showed that I was proper to pay taxes to Caesaror the Superior Authorities. Matt 22;17-21.
What the fuck has Jesus got to do with this? I continue to find it amazing how often some posters will quote passages from scripture in order to sit in judgement on others, but conveniently forget that it is not their job to judge in the first place.
Illegals should be deported. Law of the land. Nothing to do with religion.
WHAT WOULD JESUS DO ABOUT ILLEGAL ALIENS?
He would admonish them. Advocates and churches who are confused in the sanctuary laws instituted by GOD for murderers and do not apply today, to respect and obey our immigration laws, Superior Authorities, (government) that stand in place by him and pay their taxes just as he did. Superior Authorities exist because he allows them to exist and immigration laws do not conflict with his laws.
Our leaders are just like the Pharisees. Hypocrites.
SUPERIOR AUTHORITIES.
Rom 13;17 .let every soul be in subjection to superior authorities.
Titus 3;1..be obedient to government and authorities as rulers.
Luke 2;1-5 a decree went forth from Caesar for all the inhabited earth to be registered
Acts 24;16 I am exercising myself continually of committing no offense to GOD and men. (they are breaking our laws and GODs laws.)
Rom 13;2-4 he who opposes the authority has taken a stand against the arrangement of GOD those who have taken a stand against it will receive judgment..if you are doing what is bad, be in fear.
Christians who subject themselves to proper authority of political government receive benefits .Rom 13;3,4 .1Pet 2;12-14.
BOUNDARIES
Boundaries (borders) Boundaries were set in place by God from the beginning of time and for a reason. Gen 4;10,11....3;23,24... Gen 15;18-21. Ex 23;31..... To Abraham and his seed God promised a certain land with definitely stated boundaries. Gen 15;13-16.....would enforce an eviction decree when the error of the Amorites came to its completion. Deut 2;4,5,18,19....Jehovah God also decreed that the Israelites would not encrouch on the boundaries of the nations of Edom, .... Deut 32;8....when the Most High gave the nations an inheritance, when he parted the sons of Adam from one another, he proceeded to fix the boundary of the people with regard for the number of the sons of Israel. Eph 2;12-16....Under penalty of death, Gentiles were prohibited beyond that boundary, such wall serving the apostle as an apt illustration of the division created by the Law covenant. Isa 54;l14,15...60;18..Co 3;16,17.
TAXES
Both Jesus and the apostle Paul showed that I was proper to pay taxes to Caesaror the Superior Authorities. Matt 22;17-21.
What the fuck has Jesus got to do with this? I continue to find it amazing how often some posters will quote passages from scripture in order to sit in judgement on others, but conveniently forget that it is not their job to judge in the first place.
Illegals should be deported. Law of the land. Nothing to do with religion.
The question was asked, what would Jesus do? The only way to answer that question is to look at what the scriptures say. No one is sitting in judgement, although we judge people every day of our lives, including you, I mean that's exactly what you just did, isn't it?
What the fuck has Jesus got to do with this? I continue to find it amazing how often some posters will quote passages from scripture in order to sit in judgement on others, but conveniently forget that it is not their job to judge in the first place.
Illegals should be deported. Law of the land. Nothing to do with religion.
The question was asked, what would Jesus do? The only way to answer that question is to look at what the scriptures say. No one is sitting in judgement, although we judge people every day of our lives, including you, I mean that's exactly what you just did, isn't it?
How exactly did I judge anything?
José;2298282 said:Mentally retarded super patriotic american clown of the US Message Board:
If "boundaries were set in place by God from the beginning of time and for a reason" California, Texas, New Mexico and Arizona would be MEXICAN TERRITORY now!!!!
There are so many things wrong with the OP, I just don't know where to begin. Other than the fact this EXACT post had hit in various other message boards(didn't know which to respond to first), I have issues with people using Christianity and the Bible(or any other religion/book) like a buffet line where they pick and choose various passages to suit there own twisted agendas.
I completely understand the issues with illegal immigration just find another way to prove or voice your concerns.
And as an afterthought;
Leviticus (19:33-4):"And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him. But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself."
The question was asked, what would Jesus do? The only way to answer that question is to look at what the scriptures say. No one is sitting in judgement, although we judge people every day of our lives, including you, I mean that's exactly what you just did, isn't it?
How exactly did I judge anything?
By saying that "some posters will quote passages from scripture in order to sit in judgement" is in fact judging "some" posters on their actions.
Judgement is nothing more than forming an opinion or evaluation after consideration or deliberation.
). After all, that's what we do here, isn't it? Judge people.
José;2298282 said:Mentally retarded super patriotic american clown of the US Message Board:
If "boundaries were set in place by God from the beginning of time and for a reason" California, Texas, New Mexico and Arizona would be MEXICAN TERRITORY now!!!!
There are so many things wrong with the OP, I just don't know where to begin. Other than the fact this EXACT post had hit in various other message boards(didn't know which to respond to first), I have issues with people using Christianity and the Bible(or any other religion/book) like a buffet line where they pick and choose various passages to suit there own twisted agendas.
I completely understand the issues with illegal immigration just find another way to prove or voice your concerns.
And as an afterthought;
Leviticus (19:33-4):"And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him. But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself."
I have a problem with people taking a verse entirely out of context so they can pretend it was actually intended to apply to a totally different and unrelated issue. This verse was NOT about illegal immigration and in NO WAY applies.
In those days the winner in war would often enslave those on the losing side and forcibly take them back to the lands of the winner to serve them. People who drag this verse out in order to pretend Jesus was an advocate of illegal immigration and would say the US has no right to enforce their own immigration law and no right to demand that outsiders enter our country legally so we can know who enters the country and for what purposes -very conveniently leave off the last part of this verse. And they do because it reveals the true context of this verse -the last part of this verse is " for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt".
The verse is about how to treat the DEFEATED in battle who were forcibly dragged back against their will to serve their conquerors after being on the losing end of a war. Which is exactly how the Jews ended up in Egypt -against their will as the slaves of the Egyptians. It is a verse admonishing the Jews how not to treat those who find themselves in the same situation the Jews found themselves to be in Egypt. Other verses tell the Jews to not make such people feel as outsiders to their new community but how to make them feel a part of it. Because it benefits a community when everyone in it feels like they have a stake in its well-being. Poorly treated slaves have no such feelings for their new environment because they feel cut off from their new surroundings and treated as inferior outsiders. Just like the Jews were treated in Egypt -and this verse is telling them not to treat others who find themselves in this same situation as the Jews were treated in Egypt.
This is NOT a verse ordering to Jews to throw open their doors and then lay down so it will be even easier for parasites to feed off them by those who illegally sneak in among them in order to exploit the institutions Jews created for themselves. And no amount of backbreaking twisting will give it that kind of meaning.
What Jesus would say about immigration is OBEY THE LAWS and enter legally or not at all! He never advocated violating man's laws and would never have advocated violating any of man's laws EXCEPT when they conflicted with God's Laws -the Ten Commandments. Illegal immigration isn't on that list.
It never fails to amaze me the people who really have no understanding of either Judaism or Christianity and practice neither religion and certainly none of the tenets of either religion -but have no problem taking any verse they can to try and pretend it means God intended Jews to be the patsies and helpless prey of anyone who wanted to exploit them -and Jesus was actually this Kumbaya-singing, hand-holding wimp who wanted His followers to bare their throats so the wolves could get a better hold. Neither religion requires its followers to forfeit what is theirs to those intent on exploiting it or stealing it for themselves.
Illegal immigration is a form of THEFT by those intent on bypassing laws in order to take what they cannot get legally. Neither Judaism nor Christianity demands followers to open their doors to thieves. Instead, stealing IS on that list of God's laws and it is illegal aliens in violation of that. Not those who insist that foreigners must enter their country only by legal means.
