What will make up a 6th gen Fighter or Bomber

[Daryl Hunt]

Been looking at what it might be to make up a 6th gen fighter or bomber.

1. No moving Surfaces. Sound impossible? It's already being done on a X Drone. It uses bleed air or exhaust gasses. If you have a moveable control surface then Radar can pick up a signal. The B-2, F-22 and F-35 have a mode where the control surfaces barely move.

2. Flying Wing. Already being done in bombers and drones. No fuselage

3. The ability to fly supercruise. Already being done. And I imagine if they go to the conformal tanks on the F-15 and hold the fuel and weapons inside the tanks then it can probably supercruise. The F-15 can almost do it dead stock. With the followon engines that produce 22K thrust without afterburner, It might do it without conformal tanks.

4. The ability to go very high (70K or higher) and attain speeds of at least Mach 4. Already being done with the scramjet engine in the X Planes. In order to fly at the higher speeds, you will have to have altitude where the air is thinner and the control surfaces will be cooler. This isn't new. The SR-71 normally flies at about 85K and can run at Mach 3.3+. How fast is it really? If I told you I would have to kill you. Obviously, it won't run that fast at 20K since you can't change the fact that air heats up the faster you go and the lower you go.

5. Baked in Stealth skin. It's already being done on the F-35. The stealth covering on the F-22 and B-2 is painted on. It breaks down after almost each flight. The baked in skin stands the pressures of flight better. And besides, you don't have to schedule it for a special paint job. You just remove and replace the panel that is showing wear.

6. The entire skin is a detector. The F-35 comes close to this but not quite. The F-35 has the sensors in it's leading, side and trailing edges. We just take it one step further and make all the skin able to be used as detection. The F-35 only needs to blip his radar to find you. After that, he passively tracks you. The Passive Tracking has even more range this his radar unless it's another Stealth Bird with it's radar off. By utilizing the entire skin, he might be able to detect even a stealth bird at 80 miles. A Non Stealth Bird, he can detect at over 100K.

7. The ability to have the option to have a live pilot or an AI. The Live Pilot is just the Quarterback who is making suggestions to the AI birds. Can you imagine flying against your enemy thinking it has a pilot on board that limits the Gs and, all of a sudden, the bird does a 15G nose diving turn that you have absolutely no chance of matching unless you want to turn your brain into mush or stop your heart.

8. Laser Weapons. We are about 3 years away from the F-35 carrying a Laser Weapon. It just takes oodles of electric power to make it work. The 4th gen fighters can't generate that much free electric power. Even the F-22 can't. The only fighter that can is the F-35 which is designed to have that excess power. I predict 2021 will be the year it goes operation.

The US and Britain have all the pieces. It just needs to be wrapped up into a new Fighter or Bomber or even Cargo/Tanker.

 

[Darkwind]

 

[mhansen2]

Daryl,

It all sounds great, maybe too great. How long will it take to perfect these advances in an operational, tactical combat aircraft? We see what's happening with CVN-78 trying to introduce many new features.

Then there's the magical question: How much will it cost? Money drives everything. Remember the saying, "No bucks, no Buck Rogers."

I see future platforms as unmanned, more or less. That's assuming computer systems can be made hack-proof and I don't know if such a thing is even possible. Good luck to us all.

 

[MisterBeale]

Anti-Gravity.

TR-3B. Above Top Secret.

TR-3B Anti-Gravity Spacecrafts

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Anti-Gravity.

TR-3B. Above Top Secret.

TR-3B Anti-Gravity Spacecrafts

You are posting in the wrong area. UFOs may or may not be real. But the tip off to a fake is the fuzzy, out of focus pics and vids. My Cell Phone does a much better job than I see in your vid. And I am not exactly a professional photographer.

 

[Manonthestreet]

If you're not supercruising you are losing

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Daryl,

It all sounds great, maybe too great. How long will it take to perfect these advances in an operational, tactical combat aircraft? We see what's happening with CVN-78 trying to introduce many new features.

Then there's the magical question: How much will it cost? Money drives everything. Remember the saying, "No bucks, no Buck Rogers."

I see future platforms as unmanned, more or less. That's assuming computer systems can be made hack-proof and I don't know if such a thing is even possible. Good luck to us all.

It certainly won't happen over night that's for sure. But suspect it will come into service no later than 2035 when the F-22s run out of airframe time. The F-22 is already showing it's age. The lessons learned from the F-35 can be transferred to the new bird without the huge pricetag. Much of the cost of the initial F-35 was to learn how to do it in the first place. The money for R$D has already been spent.

The F-22 was constructed to do a specific job which it does the best in the world right now. But the construction didn't leave any space in the Air Frame to expand it's mission any further than it does right now. The cost of upgrading the F-22 to the concept that the F-35 is would cost more than if you started from scratch. If the US wants to stay on top, the F-22 replacement has to be started right now or actually, yesterday. The F-22 will probably be either equaled or surpassed by some other country sometime in the next decade. The question comes up as, not the cost, but what cost if the new true 6th gen fighter isn't produced before the end of the next decade. Can we afford anything else? This is what drove the F-22 and the F-35.

What I proposed is actually a mix of the F-22 and F-35 just refined a bit using building methods we already are using and technology that we already possess. Why should be not do it. I can think of one reason we should. It's the right thing to do.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

If you're not supercruising you are losing

I think we are on the verge of going much faster than supercruise. That would just get you to altitude and then you would pop up to some staggering Mach Number so you could use the same gas to get many times further with only one tanker visit going up and one tanker visit coming down. Just think how difficult it was to bag a SR-71 at Mach 3 at 85,000 feet. Imagine 100,000 feet at Mach 4 or 5. At 100,000 feet, there isn't much air there so your speed could be even faster with the same thrust. Or you could be running at Mach 3 and saving on fuel for distance. We all know it's coming. According to the Russians, they are working something that does this called the Mig-41. I don't say they can't do it but their Mig-41 would light up the ground radars for hundreds of miles.

 

[westwall]

Been looking at what it might be to make up a 6th gen fighter or bomber.

1. No moving Surfaces. Sound impossible? It's already being done on a X Drone. It uses bleed air or exhaust gasses. If you have a moveable control surface then Radar can pick up a signal. The B-2, F-22 and F-35 have a mode where the control surfaces barely move.

2. Flying Wing. Already being done in bombers and drones. No fuselage

3. The ability to fly supercruise. Already being done. And I imagine if they go to the conformal tanks on the F-15 and hold the fuel and weapons inside the tanks then it can probably supercruise. The F-15 can almost do it dead stock. With the followon engines that produce 22K thrust without afterburner, It might do it without conformal tanks.

4. The ability to go very high (70K or higher) and attain speeds of at least Mach 4. Already being done with the scramjet engine in the X Planes. In order to fly at the higher speeds, you will have to have altitude where the air is thinner and the control surfaces will be cooler. This isn't new. The SR-71 normally flies at about 85K and can run at Mach 3.3+. How fast is it really? If I told you I would have to kill you. Obviously, it won't run that fast at 20K since you can't change the fact that air heats up the faster you go and the lower you go.

5. Baked in Stealth skin. It's already being done on the F-35. The stealth covering on the F-22 and B-2 is painted on. It breaks down after almost each flight. The baked in skin stands the pressures of flight better. And besides, you don't have to schedule it for a special paint job. You just remove and replace the panel that is showing wear.

6. The entire skin is a detector. The F-35 comes close to this but not quite. The F-35 has the sensors in it's leading, side and trailing edges. We just take it one step further and make all the skin able to be used as detection. The F-35 only needs to blip his radar to find you. After that, he passively tracks you. The Passive Tracking has even more range this his radar unless it's another Stealth Bird with it's radar off. By utilizing the entire skin, he might be able to detect even a stealth bird at 80 miles. A Non Stealth Bird, he can detect at over 100K.

7. The ability to have the option to have a live pilot or an AI. The Live Pilot is just the Quarterback who is making suggestions to the AI birds. Can you imagine flying against your enemy thinking it has a pilot on board that limits the Gs and, all of a sudden, the bird does a 15G nose diving turn that you have absolutely no chance of matching unless you want to turn your brain into mush or stop your heart.

8. Laser Weapons. We are about 3 years away from the F-35 carrying a Laser Weapon. It just takes oodles of electric power to make it work. The 4th gen fighters can't generate that much free electric power. Even the F-22 can't. The only fighter that can is the F-35 which is designed to have that excess power. I predict 2021 will be the year it goes operation.

The US and Britain have all the pieces. It just needs to be wrapped up into a new Fighter or Bomber or even Cargo/Tanker.

No small aircraft will be able to generate enough power for a usable LASER weapon. X-ray LASERS are the route needed for serious damage and they require orders of magnitude more energy than can be provided from a flying platform. Even shipboard power systems are currently not up to snuff.

 

[MisterBeale]

Anti-Gravity.

TR-3B. Above Top Secret.

TR-3B Anti-Gravity Spacecrafts

You are posting in the wrong area. UFOs may or may not be real. But the tip off to a fake is the fuzzy, out of focus pics and vids. My Cell Phone does a much better job than I see in your vid. And I am not exactly a professional photographer.

You're right, the Military-Industrial complex would never keep what they have secret from the public, my bad.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Been looking at what it might be to make up a 6th gen fighter or bomber.

1. No moving Surfaces. Sound impossible? It's already being done on a X Drone. It uses bleed air or exhaust gasses. If you have a moveable control surface then Radar can pick up a signal. The B-2, F-22 and F-35 have a mode where the control surfaces barely move.

2. Flying Wing. Already being done in bombers and drones. No fuselage

3. The ability to fly supercruise. Already being done. And I imagine if they go to the conformal tanks on the F-15 and hold the fuel and weapons inside the tanks then it can probably supercruise. The F-15 can almost do it dead stock. With the followon engines that produce 22K thrust without afterburner, It might do it without conformal tanks.

4. The ability to go very high (70K or higher) and attain speeds of at least Mach 4. Already being done with the scramjet engine in the X Planes. In order to fly at the higher speeds, you will have to have altitude where the air is thinner and the control surfaces will be cooler. This isn't new. The SR-71 normally flies at about 85K and can run at Mach 3.3+. How fast is it really? If I told you I would have to kill you. Obviously, it won't run that fast at 20K since you can't change the fact that air heats up the faster you go and the lower you go.

5. Baked in Stealth skin. It's already being done on the F-35. The stealth covering on the F-22 and B-2 is painted on. It breaks down after almost each flight. The baked in skin stands the pressures of flight better. And besides, you don't have to schedule it for a special paint job. You just remove and replace the panel that is showing wear.

6. The entire skin is a detector. The F-35 comes close to this but not quite. The F-35 has the sensors in it's leading, side and trailing edges. We just take it one step further and make all the skin able to be used as detection. The F-35 only needs to blip his radar to find you. After that, he passively tracks you. The Passive Tracking has even more range this his radar unless it's another Stealth Bird with it's radar off. By utilizing the entire skin, he might be able to detect even a stealth bird at 80 miles. A Non Stealth Bird, he can detect at over 100K.

7. The ability to have the option to have a live pilot or an AI. The Live Pilot is just the Quarterback who is making suggestions to the AI birds. Can you imagine flying against your enemy thinking it has a pilot on board that limits the Gs and, all of a sudden, the bird does a 15G nose diving turn that you have absolutely no chance of matching unless you want to turn your brain into mush or stop your heart.

8. Laser Weapons. We are about 3 years away from the F-35 carrying a Laser Weapon. It just takes oodles of electric power to make it work. The 4th gen fighters can't generate that much free electric power. Even the F-22 can't. The only fighter that can is the F-35 which is designed to have that excess power. I predict 2021 will be the year it goes operation.

The US and Britain have all the pieces. It just needs to be wrapped up into a new Fighter or Bomber or even Cargo/Tanker.

No small aircraft will be able to generate enough power for a usable LASER weapon. X-ray LASERS are the route needed for serious damage and they require orders of magnitude more energy than can be provided from a flying platform. Even shipboard power systems are currently not up to snuff.

They are developing a new laser that only requires electricity. The old way (since retired) was to use chemical lasers. That pretty well took up all the space on a 747 cargo. Today, they are playing around with a much, much smaller laser that only requires electricity. It's been tested for the Army with success. It's been tested for the Navy with success and the Air Force is considering adding to the AC-130s. They have yet to get it small enough and with enough power for the fighters but that will come. As it stands right now, the only bird with the excess electric power that could power it would be the F-35A.

 

[Picaro]

Laser 'weaponry' is going in a different direction than raw power for beam weapons mounted on aircraft, and more toward multi-frequency and multi-wavelength ECM and disruption. The big demand for power is because formerly that was the only way to get any range out of the systems through massive atmospheric losses; the latter is far less of a problem, as is having to build the system around a single wavelength. Even LOS limitations are being overcome to some extent now. Some wavelengths are better than others at the same given power. It's not necessary to punch big holes in aircraft to disable them, either.

But, the poster who said the time when these all become truly bug free and reliable, and also cheap enough, is still further away than what the Gee Whiz mags and Defense manufacturers hustling for R&D and building contractors will admit to.

Manned aircraft are obsolete; they can't even fly the F-16's built in the 1980's at more than 20% of its maneuvering capabilities, and the costs for human pilots adds a lot of weight and almost triples the costs; the latter reason is most likely the main reason we still have them: bigger profit margins, more pork to spread around. Forget all the rubbish about 'dog-fighting'; it's completely irrelevant, has been for at least 3 decades.

 

[westwall]

Laser 'weaponry' is going in a different direction than raw power for beam weapons mounted on aircraft, and more toward multi-frequency and multi-wavelength ECM and disruption. The big demand for power is because formerly that was the only way to get any range out of the systems through massive atmospheric losses; the latter is far less of a problem, as is having to build the system around a single wavelength. Even LOS limitations are being overcome to some extent now. Some wavelengths are better than others at the same given power. But, the poster who said the time when these all become truly bug free and reliable, and also cheap enough, is still further away than what the Gee Whiz mags and Defense manufacturers hustling for R&D and building contractors will admit to.

Indeed. LASERS will be effective at disabling optical and radar systems long before they will truly be effective airframe killers. The problem that LASERS have in punching through steel, titanium, and aluminium is that once a burn through has been achieved, the target material turns to plasma and cuts off the LASER. Thus, the move to pulse LASERS. Pulse LASERS deal very effectively with the plasma/target issue, but they still require enormous levels of energy to to deal with the thermal bloom, and other atmospheric effects.

Used in space and the majority of those problems disappear, but atmospheric usage is still years away.

 

[Picaro]

Laser 'weaponry' is going in a different direction than raw power for beam weapons mounted on aircraft, and more toward multi-frequency and multi-wavelength ECM and disruption. The big demand for power is because formerly that was the only way to get any range out of the systems through massive atmospheric losses; the latter is far less of a problem, as is having to build the system around a single wavelength. Even LOS limitations are being overcome to some extent now. Some wavelengths are better than others at the same given power. But, the poster who said the time when these all become truly bug free and reliable, and also cheap enough, is still further away than what the Gee Whiz mags and Defense manufacturers hustling for R&D and building contractors will admit to.

Indeed. LASERS will be effective at disabling optical and radar systems long before they will truly be effective airframe killers. The problem that LASERS have in punching through steel, titanium, and aluminium is that once a burn through has been achieved, the target material turns to plasma and cuts off the LASER. Thus, the move to pulse LASERS. Pulse LASERS deal very effectively with the plasma/target issue, but they still require enormous levels of energy to to deal with the thermal bloom, and other atmospheric effects.

Used in space and the majority of those problems disappear, but atmospheric usage is still years away.

Well, it's much closer than one would think. Breakthroughs in 'chirping' and using the lensing effects of the atmosphere itself have made some amazing stuff possible. As for the ship board lasers, they're much faster than rapid fire gunnery at ship defense, though still dependent on LOS; but, aircraft over come that limitation, same as with radio or other detectors, extending ranges. I've got some links somewhere to now publicly available info on some of this that makes it more clear. I'll look for them. I built master oscillators for the Air Force and Navy research lasers for some 12 years back in the late 1980's and 1990's, and what has come along since then is pretty cool stuff.