What will increase more jobs?

[Shogun]

Oh, and just so you can see the putrid fruit of your shit tree....



U.S. layoffs reach five-year high

NEW YORK, Nov. 5 (UPI) -- Job cuts in the United States reached a five-year high in October, a private research group said Wednesday.

Downsizing has eliminated 875,974 jobs for the year, 14 percent higher than the total announced job cuts for 2007, Challenger, Gray & Christmas, a Chicago-headquartered outplacement consultancy, said.

In October, job cuts reached 112,884, a 19 percent increase over September and 79 percent higher than October 2007.

In layoff announcements, the financial sector topped the list with 17,949, followed by the automobile industry, which announced 15,692. In 2008, these sectors have announced a total of 239,760 layoffs, 27 percent of all layoff announcements, the report said.

However, "a year ago, job cuts were concentrated in the financial sector and home-building industries," Chief Executive Officer John Challenger said.

"Job cuts are now rising across the board," he said. "In fact, October represented the biggest job-cut month of the year for several industries, including industrial goods manufacturing, consumer products, pharmaceutical, food and electronics."

U.S. layoffs reach five-year high - UPI.com

 

[sealybobo]

Green will create new jobs, end our independence on foreign oil and help with national security.

This is what the GOP has been fighting us on for 8 years.

 

[Bern80]

When WE are the worlds most dedicated consumers of goods and services (largely BECAUSE of that American sol that you'd sell out) you are goddamn right im for keeping production and consumption inside our borders. Inflated cost of goods to the level which they were at PRE-selling out our fucking production to china wn't kill commerce because Americans will have jobs that pay more than your "competitive" average chinese ghetto weekly wage.

First, your usual M.O. forgets that Americans will still have to compete with each other ala ford and chevy. Just because we restrict Toyota doesn't mean that American companies will have no competition. However, they would have competition that facilitates that American standard of living you seem to want to trade in for a nice begging spot in India. Indeed, nothing says "decreased quality" like a fucking American product made 40 fucking years ago. Indeed, we can look at Autos made in the 50s and DAMN were they shittier than the plastic molded dash of the latest toyota!

Freedom to choose does not mean the freedom to sink out society just because you want to cry that the sky is falling every time we have to react to the failure of free market capitalism. Find where the Constitution protects your right to buy cheap foreign shit.

You wanna talk about basic math? Go take a gander at election numbers, buddy. You've been having your way for quite some time and, shocker, look where were at now that a populist, PROTECTIONIST message buys more votes than the same ole bullshit rhetoric that caused even the god of free market capitalism, greenspan, to admit that shit just wasn't heading the direction he thought it would. You think fucking Ohio and each of the red turned blue states just decided to hop on board because of a historic election? Fuck no. They hopped on because THEY see the failure of your argument and want their fucking American standard of living jobs back.

Shogun everyone knows by now that you live in a truly warped reality. In times of economic down times, standard of living goes down, when economic times are good it goes up. Not a tough concept. Your notion that there is this mass migration of jobs going overseas is an exaggeration to say the least. You claim companies will pay better wages, how exactley is that going to happen when they have less money to work with? Or do you plan on mandating that as well. The level of restriction and control you wish to place on our economy is what will kill it, not jobs going overseas.

 

[Shogun]

Shogun everyone knows by now that you live in a truly warped reality. In times of economic down times, standard of living goes down, when economic times are good it goes up. Not a tough concept. Your notion that there is this mass migration of jobs going overseas is an exaggeration to say the least. You claim companies will pay better wages, how exactley is that going to happen when they have less money to work with? Or do you plan on mandating that as well. The level of restriction and control you wish to place on our economy is what will kill it, not jobs going overseas.

Hey, if you wanna start talking shit we can both throw stones, dude. Looks like the voting population of the US live in the same "warped" reality I live in. enjoy sucking the marrow out of that bone.

This isn't just a matter of "economic downtimes" when your kind enjoy selling off the American SOL for the sake of a few dollars more in the pockets of the beloved upper 2%. We've all seen the failures of your economic opinions. It is a total knee slapping joke that you seem to think that no one else in the US sees the FACT of jettisoned jobs to china, mexico and india. for real, dude. You go figure out why disenfranchised workers jumped the "free market" fense this year. I'll stick to telling you "I told you so".

companies who pay better wages and retain American employment would qualify for tax breaks. Talk about simple concepts. Those who don't get taxed. Funny how the one thing that never fluctuates are ridiculous CEO compensations, eh? I'm not really interested in hearing your claim that the sky is falling when your "royal" class continually gets paid for failing while threatening jobs at the very hint of regulation. It's cool though.. You lost. Greenspan failed. Your economic opinions have the value of confederate dollars these days.

if you think putting MORE Americans to work at a wage that will sustain the American SOL will kill jobs then you clearly have jumped the shark and have no national concern outside of how to fleece whomever becomes the latest excuse for your get rich schemes. If you don't think American workers have been cast aside by your kind then I suggest you travel to Ohio and figure out why it went blue this week.

 

[Bern80]

Hey, if you wanna start talking shit we can both throw stones, dude. Looks like the voting population of the US live in the same "warped" reality I live in. enjoy sucking the marrow out of that bone.

You honestly believe that the results of the election indicate there is mandate against capitalism? Obama had a lot of talking points but I don't recall being isolationist and reverting to a socialistic economy being one of them.

This isn't just a matter of "economic downtimes" when your kind enjoy selling off the American SOL for the sake of a few dollars more in the pockets of the beloved upper 2%. We've all seen the failures of your economic opinions. It is a total knee slapping joke that you seem to think that no one else in the US sees the FACT of jettisoned jobs to china, mexico and india. for real, dude. You go figure out why disenfranchised workers jumped the "free market" fense this year. I'll stick to telling you "I told you so".

You really haven't thought through the ramifications of what you're talking about. That much is pretty obvious. "We" don't enjoy selling off the American SOL. The concept alone is laughable that there is some enormous wane in this countries sol. This is no failure of capitalism. It is a failure of Americans to compete in the system. Again it's basic math. First we crossed a point where people believe they are entitled to a certain standard of living. The cost of that sol unfortunately exceeds the value of most people's skill sets.

Again this is a basic math problem. A standard of living, whatever level you desire that to be, costs a certain amount of money. Thus you need to possess a skill set with a value that exceeds that or at the very least equals it. How should skills be valued? The answer in your world is that they should be valued based on what the individual determines is an acceptable standard of living and the company should just pay it. Rather than the company setting what the value is based on things like the scarcity of the skill set and the extent it is beneficial to the company.

companies who pay better wages and retain American employment would qualify for tax breaks. Talk about simple concepts. Those who don't get taxed. Funny how the one thing that never fluctuates are ridiculous CEO compensations, eh? I'm not really interested in hearing your claim that the sky is falling when your "royal" class continually gets paid for failing while threatening jobs at the very hint of regulation. It's cool though.. You lost. Greenspan failed. Your economic opinions have the value of confederate dollars these days.

So essentially a subsidy. What do subsidies do to the cost of goods and services?

if you think putting MORE Americans to work at a wage that will sustain the American SOL will kill jobs then you clearly have jumped the shark and have no national concern outside of how to fleece whomever becomes the latest excuse for your get rich schemes. If you don't think American workers have been cast aside by your kind then I suggest you travel to Ohio and figure out why it went blue this week.

It isn't my desire to fleece anyone. I want the same thing you want. For American's to work. We just differ in how to do that. Based on what I know of economics I just don't see how that is possible under the policies you propose without compromonsing a lot of freedoms, including basic consumer choice. Your policies would require considerable more government control and regulation. They would have the effect of essentially requiring me to keep you in a job. That isn't my job. It's yours.

 

[KMAN]

Hmm... Sounds like we all agree.... So why is Obama wanting to raise taxes on coporations?

 

[Skull Pilot]

I mean our outsourced jobs and imported goods must match the rate at which we take on outsourced jobs FROM foreign nations and export our goods. Anything after that I'm willing to consider heavy tariffs. We can't continue to believe some capitalist pipe dream about free markets when those free markets have used the American consumer like a global stepladder. If we don't protect OUR society then there will be nothing to protect until our standards of living is normalized with every third world ghetto that can pump out cheap plastic shit sold at wal mart.

FactCheck.org: What kind of tax breaks does the U.S. give to oil companies and to corporations that send jobs overseas?

referring to a feature of the U.S. tax code that allows domestic companies to defer taxes on “unrepatriated income.” In other words, revenue that companies earn through their overseas subsidiaries goes untaxed by the IRS as long as it stays off the company’s U.S. books.

But economists, including left-leaning ones, do not agree that eliminating this provision will bring an end to off-shoring. And here’s why: In the U.S., companies are taxed 35 percent on earnings of $10 million to $15 million or on all earnings over $18.3 million. That’s one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world, making an overseas move somewhat attractive to companies that wish to avoid the U.S. tax rate. But that's not the leading reason companies send jobs overseas. According to a 2005 report by the Government Accountability Office, global technological advancement, increased openness of countries such as China and India, the higher education level of foreign workers in technological fields, and the reduced cost per foreign worker are all contributing factors to off-shoring.

There is more to a company moving off shore that just the income tax laws.

 

[Freedomlover]

Taxes play a big part in why companies move out of the country. We have the second highest corporate tax rates in the world. By the way corporations do not pay taxes, they collect taxes that are reflected in the prices we pay. Want higher prices at the store, at the pump, on anything you buy? Keep taxes high!

Second, at one time unions played an important role in raising the standard of living in our country. They got greedy and kept demanding more and more. Essentially they priced themselves out of the market and as result jobs have disappeared.

Third, technology has replaced many vocational choices that our parents and grandparents had. These will never come back. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying and is only pandering for your vote.

One tried and proven way to create new jobs is to lower taxes. Everytime it has been tried it has worked. This is an indisputable fact! Everytime taxes have been increased it ultimately has failed over time. Lower taxes bring in more revenue to the federal government, create more jobs, and directly help people to take care of themselves instead of relying on tax payers to support them. It comes down to give a fish... or teach to fish.

 

[Zoomie1980]

Hey, if you wanna start talking shit we can both throw stones, dude. Looks like the voting population of the US live in the same "warped" reality I live in. enjoy sucking the marrow out of that bone.

This isn't just a matter of "economic downtimes" when your kind enjoy selling off the American SOL for the sake of a few dollars more in the pockets of the beloved upper 2%. We've all seen the failures of your economic opinions. It is a total knee slapping joke that you seem to think that no one else in the US sees the FACT of jettisoned jobs to china, mexico and india. for real, dude. You go figure out why disenfranchised workers jumped the "free market" fense this year. I'll stick to telling you "I told you so".

companies who pay better wages and retain American employment would qualify for tax breaks. Talk about simple concepts. Those who don't get taxed. Funny how the one thing that never fluctuates are ridiculous CEO compensations, eh? I'm not really interested in hearing your claim that the sky is falling when your "royal" class continually gets paid for failing while threatening jobs at the very hint of regulation. It's cool though.. You lost. Greenspan failed. Your economic opinions have the value of confederate dollars these days.

if you think putting MORE Americans to work at a wage that will sustain the American SOL will kill jobs then you clearly have jumped the shark and have no national concern outside of how to fleece whomever becomes the latest excuse for your get rich schemes. If you don't think American workers have been cast aside by your kind then I suggest you travel to Ohio and figure out why it went blue this week.

Large companies do care that much about corporate taxes. They either pass them off to the consumer or move operations overseas. It's that simple. Companies will pay no more than the going rate for a skill set, period. The more people in a skill the less they will and the more rare a skill the more they will pay. They will expand their hiring when they are selling stuff for more than it costs to sell it and contract it when they are not. It's a simple concept.

 

[Zoomie1980]

Taxes play a big part in why companies move out of the country. We have the second highest corporate tax rates in the world. By the way corporations do not pay taxes, they collect taxes that are reflected in the prices we pay. Want higher prices at the store, at the pump, on anything you buy? Keep taxes high!

Second, at one time unions played an important role in raising the standard of living in our country. They got greedy and kept demanding more and more. Essentially they priced themselves out of the market and as result jobs have disappeared.

Third, technology has replaced many vocational choices that our parents and grandparents had. These will never come back. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying and is only pandering for your vote.

One tried and proven way to create new jobs is to lower taxes. Everytime it has been tried it has worked. This is an indisputable fact! Everytime taxes have been increased it ultimately has failed over time. Lower taxes bring in more revenue to the federal government, create more jobs, and directly help people to take care of themselves instead of relying on tax payers to support them. It comes down to give a fish... or teach to fish.

Globalization of labor is what has really killed unions. 50 years ago companies were largely held hostage by unions as they controlled the bulk of the labor pool. But technology not only replace a lot of manual labor it has also allowed employers to shop the world for labor. The only way wages stay high in the US anymore is through productivity. So long as American labor is considerably more productive than offshore labor wages will remain relatively high but lose that, and we will see third world wage rates here.

That is also a good reason to move obsolete manufacturing like Textiles overseas. We need to keep the high paying, high skill jobs here and let the rest of the world deal with the low skill, old guard industries.

American labor now has to compete DIRECTLY with foreign labor, which means it has to offer something foreign labor doesn't. The main thing it offers is productivity. But it is a complete waste of time to force wage rates artificially high because it is simply far to easy for companies to either outsource it offshore or move the whole operation offshore.

Remember, business has no social role or obligation. Business exists for one and only one purpose.....to make money for it's owners. IT has no other reason for existence.

 

[Zoomie1980]

FactCheck.org: What kind of tax breaks does the U.S. give to oil companies and to corporations that send jobs overseas?

referring to a feature of the U.S. tax code that allows domestic companies to defer taxes on “unrepatriated income.” In other words, revenue that companies earn through their overseas subsidiaries goes untaxed by the IRS as long as it stays off the company’s U.S. books.

But economists, including left-leaning ones, do not agree that eliminating this provision will bring an end to off-shoring. And here’s why: In the U.S., companies are taxed 35 percent on earnings of $10 million to $15 million or on all earnings over $18.3 million. That’s one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world, making an overseas move somewhat attractive to companies that wish to avoid the U.S. tax rate. But that's not the leading reason companies send jobs overseas. According to a 2005 report by the Government Accountability Office, global technological advancement, increased openness of countries such as China and India, the higher education level of foreign workers in technological fields, and the reduced cost per foreign worker are all contributing factors to off-shoring.

There is more to a company moving off shore that just the income tax laws.

I currently offshore about 33% of my technology labor. I do so because:

1) US colleges simply do not produce enough qualified graduates to fill my needs.

2) The level of skill in India has finally gotten to a level that they can do the work or at least the entry level technical work.

Taxes have nothing to do with it. We just pass on our taxes to our customers because all our competitors do the same....

The fly in the offshore ointment however is that the Standard of Living in India among technology professionals has EXPLODED and as such is approaching the level that their income expectations are such that the losses of productivity in using them is beginning to overcome their lower wage rates. Once Inidan technology incomes approach 70% of American incomes for the same skills they will cease to be economical to use.

Funny thing is now, India is outsourcing American outsourcing to Indonesia and Africa!!! It's not unusual to find out that some of my outsourced work to India has ended up being outsourced, in turn to Jakarta!!!!

 

[Care4all]

That's a no-brainer. Just look at Ireland. They decreased corporate taxes and got massive foreign investment and jobs. You increase taxes and the economy slows down and corporations send jobs overseas.

Taxation in the Republic of Ireland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

FRIGHTENINGLY HIGH TAXES overall if you ask me!

free healthcare, free education including college, retirement, unemployment and stuff like that though....

but damn, the taxes are so high! vat taxes, income taxes, social retirement taxes, healthcare taxes are all thru the roof

 

[Skull Pilot]

Green will create new jobs, end our independence on foreign oil and help with national security.

This is what the GOP has been fighting us on for 8 years.

I hate to tell you this Bobo, but "green" jobs will be offset by the people losing jobs in the fossil fuel industry.

And government subsidized jobs are never a good idea. Every tax dollar taken from the private sector is a dollar that could be used to start a new business, buy a new car, build a new house etc.

BHO's cap and trade will result in a huge increase in electric bills then, when and if his non nuclear energy grid gets on line, the price of electricity will stay high to pay for all the new gadgets.

And the 5 million jobs BHO promised is probably a little overly optimistic.

Does Green Energy Add 5 Million Jobs? Potent Pitch, but Numbers Are Squishy - WSJ.com

Critics say analyzing only new green jobs misses half the story.

"It's not looking at the other side of the coin: You are spending more money for your energy," says Anne Smith, a vice president at CRA International. The consulting firm wrote a report for the coal-mining industry in April that concluded that, under a bill to cap global-warming emissions, gains in green jobs would be "more than offset" by job losses elsewhere in the economy.

The answer to energy independence is not more taxes. The answer is to let the private sector do what it does best; innovate and make money.

If the government, both state and federal enacted tax credits for homeowners and businesses to offset the cost of solar hot water heaters, geothermal heating and cooling, etc. If there was a dollar for dollar tax credit given over say 5 years equal to the cost of purchasing and installing these technologies, we would see more people installing these energy saving technologies that already exist and have a proven track record. The demand would spur the growth of new businesses and put millions of people to work.

The second avenue should be a phased in change in building codes to require, building with insulated concrete forms instead of 2x4 stick construction. Not only are these homes more energy efficient, they are stronger and also impervious to insects and rodents. And again company using these building techniques should be given a tax break.

This strategy would result in huge decreases in energy consumption, huge savings for people and businesses, a huge number of jobs and as a bonus a cleaner and safer country. And it will cost less than BHO's plan.

 

[Care4all]

Increasing corporate taxes?

Decreasing corporate Taxes?

NEITHER will do anything to create jobs if the people buying their products don't have the money to do such...

A Stimulus is needed in the ranks of the middle class to get things moving again....

no need to add employees if no one is buying the goods.

A Job program stimulus for rebuilding our infrastructure would kill 2 birds with one stone....fixing our failing roads, railways, bridges and schools, while putting people to work.

This will also give people the money to buy the global corporation's products, which will then make the corps hire more people to service their new customers.

Again, a job stimulus in the form of retrofitting all government buildings with solar panels, solar heat/ geothermal retrofits, wind power and a number of things that would also kill 2 bird's with one stone by putting people to work and SAVING us tax payers a ton of money by reducing our gvt's electric bills for a generation or two to come!

A job stimulus that pays auto mechanics to refit all of the fleet of government vehicles in to running on Natural gas instead of gasoline/diesal, and other companies will put people to work making the products which are needed for the conversion....

We don't need to give away our own individual taxes so that the corporations can get a tax break and pocket it if they wish....

We need to pay ourselves with this stimulus coming up....not by only handing us money to spend, though this will help alot of the other industries like our department stores and small businesses because we will put this money in to the economy fairly quickly, but to pay for things that are well needed in our infrastructure that are investments in us and our children, like what i mentioned above....that would be using our tax dollars to help us and our own infrastructure that would come back and help us in the long run as well as the short term.

care

 

[Skull Pilot]

NEITHER will do anything to create jobs if the people buying their products don't have the money to do such...

A Stimulus is needed in the ranks of the middle class to get things moving again....

no need to add employees if no one is buying the goods.

A Job program stimulus for rebuilding our infrastructure would kill 2 birds with one stone....fixing our failing roads, railways, bridges and schools, while putting people to work.

This will also give people the money to buy the global corporation's products, which will then make the corps hire more people to service their new customers.

Again, a job stimulus in the form of retrofitting all government buildings with solar panels, solar heat/ geothermal retrofits, wind power and a number of things that would also kill 2 bird's with one stone by putting people to work and SAVING us tax payers a ton of money by reducing our gvt's electric bills for a generation or two to come!

A job stimulus that pays auto mechanics to refit all of the fleet of government vehicles in to running on Natural gas instead of gasoline/diesal, and other companies will put people to work making the products which are needed for the conversion....

We don't need to give away our own individual taxes so that the corporations can get a tax break and pocket it if they wish....

We need to pay ourselves with this stimulus coming up....not by only handing us money to spend, though this will help alot of the other industries like our department stores and small businesses because we will put this money in to the economy fairly quickly, but to pay for things that are well needed in our infrastructure that are investments in us and our children, like what i mentioned above....that would be using our tax dollars to help us and our own infrastructure that would come back and help us in the long run as well as the short term.

care

The best stimulus is a tax cut. Give the people their money back and let them keep more of what they earn.

Give tax breaks to businesses that manufacture, install and service alternative energy systems. Give tax credits to people who retrofit existing structures and homes. Give tax credits to people who build new energy efficient homes and buildings.

The last entity you want spending your money is the government. You want proof look up the big dig

 

[Care4all]

The best stimulus is a tax cut. Give the people their money back and let them keep more of what they earn.

Give tax breaks to businesses that manufacture, install and service alternative energy systems. Give tax credits to people who retrofit existing structures and homes. Give tax credits to people who build new energy efficient homes and buildings.

The last entity you want spending your money is the government. You want proof look up the big dig

no argument here, it still would be a gvt program or initiative... only paying the private sector to do it, whether it be tax credits or a contract.

 

[editec]

FAIR trade laws. Nothing else is really going to solve the long term problem we've created since 1934, and been accelerating since the 1960s.

As long as we keep making our workers compete with third world workers, the problem of declining wages and offshoring factories is going to keep screwing this nation in multiple ways.

The reason that our governments are going broke is because our workers aren't making enough money to pay a fiar share of their taxes, and our dollars are all going offshore.

This is NOT rocket science and the Free traders who keep insisting that FREE TRADE is good for America are goofy idealogues. The numbers like trade imbalances and industries leaving our land prove that they are entirely wrong.

I actually think raising taxes, even on the super rich, is a mistake.

But raising tariffs on crap coming into this nation WILL encentiize industries that want to sell into our markets to start manufacutruing here.

NO NATION ON EARTH but the USA has completely opened its borders to incoming manufacutured goods, folks.

Why are we doing this to ourselves when China isn't The common market isn't, Korea isn't, and so forth?

Why?

Because the NEO-CONS WANT to destroy this government.

Seriously, they hate government and this stupid policy is how they are detroying ours.

They want to destroy all governments FYI and all nations, too.

Read Pa Buchanan's book on this subject.

Remember now, I am the one who is sounding like an old time conservative, now, not these FREE TRADERS,

Learn you history, folks, and you'll see I am right about this.

 

[Care4all]

Large companies do care that much about corporate taxes. They either pass them off to the consumer or move operations overseas. It's that simple. Companies will pay no more than the going rate for a skill set, period. The more people in a skill the less they will and the more rare a skill the more they will pay. They will expand their hiring when they are selling stuff for more than it costs to sell it and contract it when they are not. It's a simple concept.

according to our gvernment, corporations pass their taxes over to their shareholders, with less profits to them....not to the consumer...

i tend to think it is a little bit of both...

 

[KMAN]

Banks lending and people spending creates jobs.....nothing else.

So if a company has less money from taxes that doesn't affect how many people they hire is that what you are saying?

 

[Care4all]

So if a company has less money from taxes that doesn't affect how many people they hire is that what you are saying?

no it doesn't kman, it encourages them to HIRE if anything...primarily because of the tax write off for the new, added, employee.