CDZ What will America become in 20 years?

jwoodie

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Aug 15, 2012
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Is there any existing model for America's destiny? Will it be able to maintain the ideals of individualism and self reliance, or are they to be considered historical fairy tales that must be discarded in favor of collectivist principles? Are we now so cynical as to accept corruption as the norm? I fear that America's citizens are no longer up to the task of defending their own liberties.

What say you?
 
As long as somebody doesn't start tinkering with and re-writing the constitution, we'll be ok. It's mainly because of that document that we're still here.
 
If America's citizens are no longer up to the task of defending their own liberties, it’s the consequence of their own ignorance and stupidity.

What’s in jeopardy is not the ideals of individualism and self-reliance, nor is there any advocacy for the implementation of ‘collectivist principles,’ whatever that’s supposed to be.

Rather, the threat is to our Constitutional Republic itself, to the rule of law, and the principle of citizens’ inalienable rights.

The danger has never been so great as it is today, where there is a real possibility that the principle of inalienable rights – rights that can be neither taken nor bestowed by any government, constitution, or man – will be wrongfully subject to ‘majority rule’ and the ‘will of the people,’ contrary to the original intent of the Founding Generation and our Constitutional Republic.
 
A civilization in decline, and history is strewn with cultures that have grown fat at the top end, and meet their end at the hands of the proletariat, or sharper cultures.
While the Government continues to be driven by the interests of the wealthy, we are in danger of insurgency.
 
Is there any existing model for America's destiny? Will it be able to maintain the ideals of individualism and self reliance, or are they to be considered historical fairy tales that must be discarded in favor of collectivist principles? Are we now so cynical as to accept corruption as the norm? I fear that America's citizens are no longer up to the task of defending their own liberties.

What say you?

I use the British and Roman expires as the well known models for America's destiny as a world power. The Spanish and any of the Chinese empires could work as well.

Collectivist vs individualism has only a bit to do with it. Sometimes empires rise, especially short term, when a nation gets a purpose.

During my life time the trend towards not defending your liberties from a centralized government took a huge push in the 80's under Reagan and the 2000's under the Patriot Act (Bush W was a joke before 9-11 if you remember). Think about the folks who were supposed to be the small government crowd throwing themselves down to worship the PMRC "moral majority" and the loss of rights we had after 9-11.
 
During my life time the trend towards not defending your liberties from a centralized government took a huge push in the 80's under Reagan and the 2000's under the Patriot Act (Bush W was a joke before 9-11 if you remember). Think about the folks who were supposed to be the small government crowd throwing themselves down to worship the PMRC "moral majority" and the loss of rights we had after 9-11.

Are you ever able to get off your partisan high horse?
 
A civilization in decline, and history is strewn with cultures that have grown fat at the top end, and meet their end at the hands of the proletariat, or sharper cultures.
While the Government continues to be driven by the interests of the wealthy, we are in danger of insurgency.

The irony is that successful governance has always been driven by the interests of the wealthy. How else would we have gotten planes, trains, automobiles, electricity and almost every other invention that benefits us? The key for continued success seems to be bringing the larger population along through the incentive of gainful employment. Unfortunately, many of these wonderful improvements have reduced the need for and value of less skilled human labor.

What is to be done? Simply buying off the masses with bread and circuses inevitably leads to lack of self worth, degradation of social mores and, ultimately, overthrowing the established order (usually with something worse). The notable exceptions (so far) to this demise are the American Revolution and the evolution of the British Constitutional Monarchy. How much longer we can escape this fate is the subject of this thread.
 
As long as somebody doesn't start tinkering with and re-writing the constitution, we'll be ok. It's mainly because of that document that we're still here.

towers_always_watching.jpg
 
A civilization in decline, and history is strewn with cultures that have grown fat at the top end, and meet their end at the hands of the proletariat, or sharper cultures.
While the Government continues to be driven by the interests of the wealthy, we are in danger of insurgency.

We're like the Roman Empire around 300AD, and will soon split in 2
 
Is there any existing model for America's destiny? We're kind of the world's first republican democracy, aren't we? So we're sort of establishing the baseline here for how to really screw things up when you've got that form of gov't.


Will it be able to maintain the ideals of individualism and self reliance? I don't think so, possibly if we have to go through another Great Depression similar to the 1930s. It could be that such a serious economic catastrophe might re-orient the ship so to speak. Or we could go the other way into total socialism.


Are they (the ideals of individualism and self reliance) to be considered historical fairy tales that must be discarded in favor of collectivist principles? It's 50-50 IMHO.


Are we now so cynical as to accept corruption as the norm? Uh, yeah. Especially if it's the other side being the accused.


I fear that America's citizens are no longer up to the task of defending their own liberties. Don't know. The millenials and those who follow them seem all too willing to sacrifice their liberties in the name of the collective good. We'll maybe see how good it really is. By then of course, I'll be long gone. So it'll be you young people who decide which way to go, individualism and self reliance OR collectivism, and if you make the wrong decision it will you guys and your kids who will pay the price for it.


And I will add this, it was my generation (the boomers) who effed it up 6 ways from Sunday and left you in a bad place in a bunch of different ways. But you guys are going to get stuck with the bill anyway.
 
Within 20-30 years I believe you will see a major violent revolt in this country. It will probably take 5-10 years to resolve and will end with either a single party (Progressive OR Conservative) wiping out the other, or a two-state solution.
 
During my life time the trend towards not defending your liberties from a centralized government took a huge push in the 80's under Reagan and the 2000's under the Patriot Act (Bush W was a joke before 9-11 if you remember). Think about the folks who were supposed to be the small government crowd throwing themselves down to worship the PMRC "moral majority" and the loss of rights we had after 9-11.

Are you ever able to get off your partisan high horse?

Maybe. Something in the past on here just motivated me to throw that in to make sure we knew "both sides" were guilty. I'm not really partisan though. I'm just bringing down the side I think is being hypocritical at the moment. On Gardenweb I tell people to quit complaining and either pull their weeds or use the Round-up.

Oh, 20 years, I dunno. AD380 Rome? 1915 England? Being drained fighting a very expensive war of the kind we prefer not to fight?
 

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