What was a reason to pay Judas?

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by ESay, May 13, 2015.

  1. ESay
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    ESay Silver Member

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    So, the soldiers were sent to arrest Jesus without anyone who could recognise him? (I mean except of Judas). I repeat it again - It would be understandable if very few people had seen Jesus in Jerusalem; if he kept a low profile there. But he was doing the opposite. And the soldiers had to rely only on Judas because no single person among the law enforcement services (I don’t know how they was called at that time, and I agree there were no contemporary police at that time, but some people did similar job, didn’t they?) could put Jesus out?

    Maybe you are right, guys. Maybe there is no contradiction there, and it is only my inability to understand that.


    I totally agree with you. I can accept neither the Jesus’ physical resurrection nor claims that he is God in human form. Actually, here is one more contradiction I am unable to understand – if he really did all these miracles, if there really was the physical resurrection, then how it was possible that there were so many sceptical people who didn’t believe him and his disciples that his teaching didn’t take root at the place where he was teaching? But that is rather a rhetorical question.

    I am sure you have heard about Arius, haven’t you?
     
  2. BluePhantom
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    BluePhantom Educator (of liberals)

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    Well, not believing in the resurrection is a bit different than a Catholic using contraception. :lol: Belief in the physical resurrection is one of the primary planks that make up the Christian faith. It's something I have thought about, meditated on, prayed about, opened myself to God for guidance about, and, at the end of the day, I just don't buy that one. Now, people are dynamic and they change their minds. There are many things I believe now that I did not believe five or ten years ago, so perhaps I will change my position on this at some point in the future. But, for where I am right now, it's not something I can honestly say I believe. For me, it's the honesty part that is really important. One might cal me a believer with a skeptical modus operandi. That is, I don't believe in something simply because that is the tradition or because someone told me to. I research it, learn about it, look for problems with it, pray on it, and ask God for guidance and do my best to allow my true beliefs that reside in my spirit to be revealed to me. There are many people who go around professing belief about something, anything, when they don't really believe it. They have other reasons for claiming that belief. Sometimes it's that they simply want to believe it. Some are even at a place where they want to want to believe it. I am not one of them. But that's my path to walk and no one else's and I bear the responsibility for that path. We will see where it leads me.
     
  3. BluePhantom
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    BluePhantom Educator (of liberals)

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    Well I do believe He was God in human form. It's just that I believe we are all God in human form. In my concept of who and what God is, God is everything. That includes everything...all matter in the universe. God is the planets, the nebulae, the grass, the dirt, the DVD player, and the helium balloon. It also means it is us. That does not mean that 'we are God' but rather 'God is us'. I draw a distinction between the two. That's a very unorthodox way of looking at God, but it is what works and makes sense for me. Others might call that view silly, foolish, misguided, or downright blasphemous...but it's not their path to walk. ;)

    As far as the miracles and his teachings taking root, I think they did take root where He was teaching. It just didn't grow because most people stayed where they were and didn't travel a lot. It took Paul to really spread it around and make it grow. And yes, I am familiar with Arius and Arianism
     
  4. zaangalewa
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    zaangalewa Gold Member

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    ¿No?

    Again: the only position where the word "lucifer" exists in the latin translation of the bible (NT) is 2 Petr 1,19: Et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem : cui benefacitis attendentes quasi lucernæ lucenti in caliginoso donec dies elucescat, et lucifer oriatur in cordibus vestris ... = and we have the prophetic word more fully confirmed, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.

    I gave you already some informations about and made clear that all this "Lucifer"-nonsense has nothing to do with the christian religion and is only a sensless anticatholic attitude. Seems to me you decided to ignore this informations. So I have to accept that you are only a preacher of hate.

    No wonder that a preacher of hate has a problem with every god or godess who represents heavenly love like Athtar, Venus or Eros. Let me say in another way now: When you are able to see the light of the morning star - the light of love - soon the nearly endless dark night of your soul will be over. Don't close your eyes. Don't try to tell others there's only night and they will need no eyes nor laterns. Today we are celebrating the day Jesus went to heaven and started to prepare for us a home there. He will soon come back.

    Sounds a little as if you would be a fakir bareback riding in an rodeo on Christmas trees. Do you believe in anything what you say?

     
    Last edited: May 14, 2015
  5. BluePhantom
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    BluePhantom Educator (of liberals)

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    You are wasting your time. I have refuted HaShev's nonsense several times and provided supporting links and all that. He just goes to a different thread and says the exact same thing. I have found that unless you wish to chase him all over USMB refuting his same ridiculous claims over and over, it's easier to just put him on ignore. Personally, I am not a big fan of ignore. I only have three people on it, but they all share the trait that their conclusions are, in my view, so mind-numbingly idiotic that they are not even worth reading. A person who insists that Jesus claimed to be Lucifer makes the list.
     
  6. ESay
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    ESay Silver Member

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    It is called Pantheism, isn’t it? I have heard about it, but I know about it even less than about the Gospels, unfortunately.

    Is that so? If I remember correctly the territory of contemporary Israel has never been the stronghold of Christianity. Christianity was founding its followers beyond this territory, at the lands where people weren’t familiar with a real life of Jesus and because of it they accepted with happiness the fairy tales about Saviour who was able to do miracles and who ascended physically to the sky.

    What do you think the most dubious statements of this teaching are? The statements you don’t agree with. In few words.
     
  7. BluePhantom
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    BluePhantom Educator (of liberals)

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    It could be easily misunderstood to be pantheism. Like all religions (or for that matter political parties, sociological demographics, etc) there are various factions within pantheism. Some to do not believe in God at all but believe the universe is worthy of divine worship, shall we say. You might refer to that as pagan pantheism as the worshp goes to nature instead of God. Some believe that God is the universe. There are many variants. I believe that God is the universe but I also believe that God exists as an absolute entity as well. In my view, God is a dichotomy. In what I would call the 'relative realm' (the physical universe), God exists as the universe but individual elements are distinguishable. However, God also exists in what I would call the 'absolute realm' which would be the spiritual afterlife, heaven, whatever you wish to call it. Thus, God exists at the same time as all things together spiritually, and all things apart physically. I know, that's kind of odd....really odd actually...but that's just how I view it. So it has some pantheistic elements but I would not categorize it as such.


    Well I think that is the result of how the Bible is written and pieced together. Most of the 27 books of the New Testament are written by, attributed to, or about the Apostle Paul. Paul's mission was to spread the word to Gentiles across the empire while the other apostles focused on the Jews. Paul was a very educated man and he was very successful in his ministry so we have writings of Paul where for the others we don't. We ave letters that claim to be written by John, and Peter, and Jude, etc but the vast majority of scholars view them as pseudepigraphic. So in addition to having documents from Paul and none from the others, we also see Paul working with a much larger geographical area. Thus we get the illusion that Christianity didn't take hold in Jerusalem or Judea. But actually according to Acts it caught on very strongly among the Jewish population. Additionally, one of Paul's main responsibilities was to gather a collection for the converted Jewish population in Jerusaem. This pre-supposes that there was one as it makes no sense to gather a collection for a population that did not exist.


    Well first of all, I am familiar with Arius and have a basic understanding of the controversies associated with him and Arianism in general. I am far from an expert on him. I guess if you are asking for a specific point of disagreement it would be that Arius stated that Jesus was subordinate to God and was not God in human form. As previously stated, I believe we are all God in human form and thus I would stand in contrast to his view. So in a way, you could say that I agreed with the Catholic view during the Arian Controversy, but I would have taken it further to say 'there is not just a trinity, there is a spiritual unity that includes all things'.
     
  8. zaangalewa
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    zaangalewa Gold Member

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    :lol: Ah - a joke. Lost in translation unfortunatelly. I know from a fellow countryman who is 28 years old and speaks 33 languages. He's never where I need him. Whatever - if you should think contraception is against the teaching of the catholic church then you are wrong. Contraception is a completly normal form of family planing.

    But if god allows you [still] not to believe this then it's more important to be in this what you are able to accept from him. Be patient. There are lots of diamonds.

    Very good. Don't buy it if you are not convinced.

    In worst case you will never believe it. Maybe you should try to find out what this means for you. But I have the feeling you will understand one day more about - maybe even much more than I. Te future is open. We are not able to know the future result now.

    Traditions means not to take everything. Tradition means to take the flame. Tradition is progress too, because we are taking the good from the past and bring it into the future.

    Don't worry. Relax. God is a nice guy, a very good friend. There's a reason for everything - even for the fact that there are sometimes no reasons if something happens what 's not so good - but not always are we able to understand now immediatelly. I'm convinced we are living in the best of all possible worlds. Unfortunatelly we are doing not always the best of all possible decisions. It's good to communicate and to learn from others.

    A problem.

    Don't worry. God will lead you. Maybe not always the way you like to go - hopefully not ways no human being likes to go - but wherever you will be: he will always be with you.

     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
    Last edited: May 14, 2015
  9. HaShev
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    HaShev Gold Member

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    Blue,
    you obviously have a problem reading and telling the truth.
    1) you never posted links or refuted anything otherwise I would have asked for a brief summary since linking is lazy and disruptive and I never trust to click them.
    2) Since I teach Jesus didn't exist as a singular figure and that Rome created his image then it's Rome saing Jesus is Lucifer since they create his speach...did you not see the wizard of oz to know how that works? This is where you lie or are mistaking by not reading properly what I'm saying.
    3) in understanding what I'm saying about creating his image previously showing where they plagiarize the OT we see they blunder everything they place Jesus in using the OT stories and verses.
    This includes placing him into the OT accounts of
    Rabbi Yohoshua Ben Chananiah who spoke of resurrection teachings.
    Was Chana a town or was this Yshua (Jesus) visiting his father nicknamed Chana in the NT?
    Why does Yeshu son of mary the figure used for portions of the Jesus myth teach of Egyptian underworld paradise in death he learned when fleeing to Egypt, and not resurrection teachings yet Jesus the icon created is opposite teaching life in "returning" (hashev) to life not life in death?
     
  10. HaShev
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    HaShev Gold Member

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    Christianity teaches 2 opposing teachings on death and dying, litterally teaching knowledge that is good (resurrection into life-to see the benefits of your good deeds) and that which is evil (death cultism death worship).
     

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