What to do about schools

[Big Fitz]

No, Big Fitz, that's why the people elect their superintendents and board members. That is called republicanism, a representative form of government. You must be a liberal if you want a straight democracy.

Right. Did you know in the twin cities, you can't be on the board of education if you are not a member of the teacher's union? Smell a conflict of interest?

I agree with you on a school teacher serving on the board of education of his district, but I have no problem if he is serving on the state board.

MN is also perhaps the most lib state in the nation.

I'm more for a capitalist system. Business to client relationship between the schools and the parents. The Schools run by a private management firm for the cities can then fight over contracts, save the cities tons of money if not make them some. All that staff and overhead that can be cut, and potentially all those facility costs that can be born by the companies and paid directly by the students families who are saving on local property taxes increasing the overall quality of life by reducing tax burden allowing for money to be spent or invested in different ways.

That's more my model. Oh, and unruly kids can be kicked out and discipline maintained.

And yes, MN is in the top five most liberal states, as well as top 5 most heavily taxed per capita. Of course, you can find that information at the jason lewis show website regarding taxes per capita. The government hides it and it must be extrapolated.

 

[uscitizen]

Close about 1/4 of the schools and only let in the ones that are proper students.
Throw out the dead weight.
Heck we don't have enough jobs anyway. Why spend money educating them?

It is socialist anyway So I am sure all the Tea Partiers will support this.

By "proper students" I assume you mean Aryan, middle class.

Nope I am not that rerired military guy.

I mean the ones that want to learn.

School should not be a babysitter for mommy and daddy's little brat.

 

[Samson]

Close about 1/4 of the schools and only let in the ones that are proper students.
Throw out the dead weight.
Heck we don't have enough jobs anyway. Why spend money educating them?

It is socialist anyway So I am sure all the Tea Partiers will support this.

By "proper students" I assume you mean Aryan, middle class.

Nope I am not that rerired military guy.

I mean the ones that want to learn.

School should not be a babysitter for mommy and daddy's little brat.

The "ones that want to learn?"

You can tell these from those that don't want to learn?

How? Do they smell different?

 

[marvel]

I have a lot to say on this, but let me share a personal experience. My son went to Uganda for six weeks and taught. He had a similar experience. Each semester cost $10 and parents would spend every dime they had to send their kids to school. Uniforms cost $10 but were optional. The orphanage he was affiliated with provided the kids with uniforms, so he said it was obvious which kids had no parents. Instead of being embarrassed, they wore these uniforms proudly because they loved their school.

He also decided he wanted to be a teacher when he got back. I support him in whatever decision he makes, but warned him that American kids are quite different. I love my job - but it's not at all what I expected it would be.

I don't think privatization is the answer, but certainly competition is healthy. My fear is that the negative publicity schools are getting will translate into even more student apathy and antagonism. We need to balance what is wrong with what is right. Bashing schools translates to kids - "school sucks". That is dangerous rhetoric. Many of our students and public schools are doing very, very well. Let's focus on what is working.

Privatization is clearly not the answer. Public schools will be saved if the great majority of the parents become involved in their school districts. If not, they will be transformed into . . .? The parents are the key for accountability and discipline of students.

Parents already know that the school boards are incestuous organizations populated with teachers union members who have no interest but their own pockets and turn a deaf ear to all parent groups. They only have real pull with private, magnet and charter schools where an individual student means something.

But yes, parents are the key and that's why when you give them back a direct link and control to the school, and not filter it through unions and boards and committees... you get damn fine results.

This.

I am on an education board that is made up of parents, and parents feel their involvement leads to very little. And the sad fact is that it does. The union really controls everything, they are not advocating for our children and we have to operate within that. It's a really disempowering place to be. There are also a number of other entities that are vying for the little control left, and it leads to an inefficient educational process.

And people wander why parents love charter schools. Not only are they closing achievement gaps and serving students better, they allow and often require a higher degree of parental involvement and they make it possible.

 

[Samson]

Privatization is clearly not the answer. Public schools will be saved if the great majority of the parents become involved in their school districts. If not, they will be transformed into . . .? The parents are the key for accountability and discipline of students.

Parents already know that the school boards are incestuous organizations populated with teachers union members who have no interest but their own pockets and turn a deaf ear to all parent groups. They only have real pull with private, magnet and charter schools where an individual student means something.

But yes, parents are the key and that's why when you give them back a direct link and control to the school, and not filter it through unions and boards and committees... you get damn fine results.

This.

I am on an education board that is made up of parents, and parents feel their involvement leads to very little. And the sad fact is that it does. The union really controls everything, they are not advocating for our children and we have to operate within that. It's a really disempowering place to be. There are also a number of other entities that are vying for the little control left, and it leads to an inefficient educational process.

And people wander why parents love charter schools. Not only are they closing achievement gaps and serving students better, they allow and often require a higher degree of parental involvement and they make it possible.

States that allow public employees to unionize are asking for trouble.

States without teachers unions have much weaker charter schools.

My question is, why would voters in, say New York, allow public employees to unionize?

 

[Big Fitz]

States that allow public employees to unionize are asking for trouble.

Of course you could also counter public union power by forcing any changes in union contracts to be approved by public referenda and ban state money for local schools. That right there gives the people paying the bill direct control over their employees... the teachers and administration.

 

[Samson]

States that allow public employees to unionize are asking for trouble.

Of course you could also counter public union power by forcing any changes in union contracts to be approved by public referenda and ban state money for local schools. That right there gives the people paying the bill direct control over their employees... the teachers and administration.

I guess there are all sorts of bandaids to be thrown over the situation, but I still think it would be better to simply eliminate the problem (Unionization of Public Employees).

Banning state money from local schools creates local tax enclaves: All The Rich live in one district, and that district has a wonderful tax base to build a heated, olympic-sized indoor swimming pool for the school's underwater basket weaving team. Everyone Else lives in another district, where kids recycle pencil erasers by collecting and washing the rubber shavings, and 150 5th graders share one Math Text written in 1908.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

And the kids in the second school get a better education.


It depends on the commitment of the parents and students.

Really, the parents and students who don't care should be allowed to wash out, and allow more time and attention to the students that do.

 

[Samson]

And the kids in the second school get a better education.


It depends on the commitment of the parents and students.

Really, the parents and students who don't care should be allowed to wash out, and allow more time and attention to the students that do.

What you are describing is fine.....for a PRIVATE School.

However, a PUBLIC school financed by and for, obviously, the public, which is sadly imperfect, sending the entire spectrum of physical, mental, emotional, and social problems to focus on one place to be formed into Upstanding Citizens.

This is the Mission of the Public School.

There is no caveat to educate, "only students of parents who care."

 

[Baruch Menachem]

That is all that is achieved anyway..... But meanwhile the jerkasses slow everyone down.

 

[Samson]

That is all that is achieved anyway..... But meanwhile the jerkasses slow everyone down.

They do?

are you saying there are no Honors, or Advanced Placement classes in US public schools?

 

[syrenn]

The problem as I see is we are a nation of "give me, I am entitled to" There is no need or motivation for a "better" life. Why would lazy kids want to learn or get a job?

 

[JakeStarkey]

The problem as I see is we are a nation of "give me, I am entitled to" There is no need or motivation for a "better" life. Why would lazy kids want to learn or get a job?

Blanket statement covering everyone is as helpful as anything else: almost nothing.

Many kids work very hard to get ahead in school. The issue is what to do about the 25%? Got a solution?

 

[syrenn]

The problem as I see is we are a nation of "give me, I am entitled to" There is no need or motivation for a "better" life. Why would lazy kids want to learn or get a job?

Blanket statement covering everyone is as helpful as anything else: almost nothing.

Many kids work very hard to get ahead in school. The issue is what to do about the 25%? Got a solution?

Personally I dont think very may kids get ahead in school. They make the minimum passing grade.

Yes I have a solution. No more welfare. No more food stamps. No more health care. No more aid to mothers with dependent children. No more free anything.

Your 25% is most likely the poorer kids. Of which a good deal come from homes who have been on welfare all of their lives, and do just fine. Why change it? Why learn to speak english and get a job when everything you may need or want is free?

 

[Samson]

The problem as I see is we are a nation of "give me, I am entitled to" There is no need or motivation for a "better" life. Why would lazy kids want to learn or get a job?

Blanket statement covering everyone is as helpful as anything else: almost nothing.

Many kids work very hard to get ahead in school. The issue is what to do about the 25%? Got a solution?

Personally I dont think very may kids get ahead in school. They make the minimum passing grade.

Yes I have a solution. No more welfare. No more food stamps. No more health care. No more aid to mothers with dependent children. No more free anything.

Your 25% is most likely the poorer kids. Of which a good deal come from homes who have been on welfare all of their lives, and do just fine. Why change it? Why learn to speak english and get a job when everything you may need or want is free?

Ah, yes No more "Free" anything.

Well, nothing is really "Free" now, is it?

 

[syrenn]

Ah, yes No more "Free" anything.
Well, nothing is really "Free" now, is it?

Look around you, there is LOTS of free everything in this country, depending on who you are.

What is free to some, I of course have paid for!

 

[Samson]

Ah, yes No more "Free" anything.
Well, nothing is really "Free" now, is it?

Look around you, there is LOTS of free everything in this country, depending on who you are.

What is free to some, I of course have paid for!

Someone has paid for everything.

The Public pays for Public School.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

After all the wining I have done in this thread, I have to say I commend those who are actually in the trenches in this.


I just spent 90 minutes doing ESL tutoring with folks who are hard working and dedicated, but English is a bitch.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The problem as I see is we are a nation of "give me, I am entitled to" There is no need or motivation for a "better" life. Why would lazy kids want to learn or get a job?

Blanket statement covering everyone is as helpful as anything else: almost nothing.

Many kids work very hard to get ahead in school. The issue is what to do about the 25%? Got a solution?

Personally I dont think very may kids get ahead in school. They make the minimum passing grade.

Yes I have a solution. No more welfare. No more food stamps. No more health care. No more aid to mothers with dependent children. No more free anything.

Your 25% is most likely the poorer kids. Of which a good deal come from homes who have been on welfare all of their lives, and do just fine. Why change it? Why learn to speak english and get a job when everything you may need or want is free?

OK, you don't have a solution: got it.

 

[syrenn]

The Public pays for Public School.

Not quite, be more accurate. Some of the public pay for public schools. Not everyone.