What the Right doesn’t get about “scientist and science” Part 2

Discussion in 'Science and Technology' started by rdean, Oct 16, 2010.

  1. rdean

    rdean Guest

    How much education does it take to become a scientist:

    Scientists are extremely well schooled.

    To quote C0nc0rdance:

    To get your first tenure-track faculty job, you will need:

    4 years to BS or BA
    2 years to MS or MA (optional)
    3-4 years to PhD
    4-12 years of post-doctoral research
    2-6 years as Associate Professor or Research Fellow.

    If you start at 18, you could be tenure track as early as 31, or as late as 46.

    How To Become A Scientist - Science News

    The age of the Physics Nobel Prize recipients has clearly been on the sharp increase since the mid-1960s! But why?!


    However, as science became increasingly sophisticated and incomprehensible, it now takes much more time to muster its intricacies to a sufficient degree that a novel and original contribution can be made. In other words, today's physicists have to spend more time in school before they can start advancing the cutting edge of science.

    Nobel Prize Winners Age Statistics

    A novel and original contribution.

    The goal of every scientist.

    How many right wingers on this board have said such things as:

    Scientists sit on their duffs collecting government paychecks.

    They don't do anything.

    They have no common sense.

    When a new disease is discovered or a disaster happens, such as the BP oil spill, or the US needs a new weapon to counter a national threat or new food crops need to be developed, who are the first people the country looks too? Pastors?

    Science is hard work. How likely is it for people to work all of their adult lives and then just "stop" because they want to live off a fat government stipend? People that motivated will work until they drop.

    Most Right wingers would rather believe a book of fables written by primitive Middle Eastern desert people than knowledge gained from modern science by people who have worked their entire lives on the slight chance that they can come up with, "A novel and original contribution". Even a small one.

    Most right wingers expect to be taken care of by science and scientists, but treat those same scientists as "unwanted step children".

    The reason more scientists don't "fight the ignorance"? It takes a lot of time and effort to change the minds of those who are willfully and determinedly closed minded. Scientists simply don't have the time in their relatively short careers to deal with nonsense. They assume their results speak for themselves.
  2. IanC

    IanC Gold Member

    Sep 22, 2009
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    unfortunately it takes longer to acquire the body of knowledge necessary to get to the edge of any scientific field. it also precludes the ability to become a polymath who can easily switch fields and bring fresh ideas into a related or even unrelated field. Some of the best ideas have been initiated by outsiders with a new angle on an old theory.
  3. Quantum Windbag

    Quantum Windbag Gold Member

    May 9, 2010
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    Do you not recognize a joke when you see it? Maybe if you had an open mind (Step 1) you wouldn't overlook the obvious clues in both the video and the blog.

    BTW, why would a scientist want to be tenure track?

    Probably because the Nobel Prize is highly political, and rarely based on merit.

    Just a thought.

    The goal of every doctorate candidate.

    As far as I know, none.


    Sounds like a conservative work ethic to me. What is your point again?

    You do know that a ThD requires the same "novel and original" contribution that a PhD does, don't you?

    I thought they expected to be taken care of by God. When am I going to start getting these memos?

    Scientists fight the ignorance every day. They start with their own, and then work on the ignorance of others. Maybe if you got rid of your own ignorance you would have fewer problems with the real world.
  4. eagleseven

    eagleseven Quod Erat Demonstrandum

    Jul 8, 2009
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    1. God help the poor schmuck stuck as a post-doc for 12 years, making less than a BS college grad.

    2. You forgot to mention that 70-90% of PhD's won't find tenure-track positions at all.

    3. Those non-tenured PhDs will find industry work, if they're lucky, or be stuck as an adjunct/community-college-instructor making pennies.

    4. PhD programs are not education...they are socialization into the research community. Principally, you learn to write papers that please your peers (PhD committee), while spinning your narrow topic into as many grant-applications as you can physically manage to type.

    5. In the sciences, time to PhD is now 5-6 years...of hell.


    This is why PhD programs are filled with immigrants...the PhD no longer offers the payoff it once did, for Americans with education in STEM fields. It is, however, an excellent way to get your green card.

    I myself have forgone the PhD (to the dismay of my professors) for the medical field.
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2010
  5. Si modo

    Si modo Diamond Member

    Sep 9, 2009
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    Fairfax, Virginia
    Who knew that there were research scientist groupies.

  6. CrusaderFrank

    CrusaderFrank Diamond Member

    May 20, 2009
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    My PhD Thesis: Is Rdean braindead?

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