What the hell is a fair tax?

[Camp]

Is there such a thing as a fair tax? Seems no matter what kind of system is used, it turns out to be unfair to some people. My thinking is that the closest thing to a fair tax or taxes are user fee type taxes and sales taxes. Everything else allows some folks to pay little or nothing, and others to pay way to much. I don't consider a flat tax to be fair. Why should a person making a hundred thousand bucks a year have to pay way more for the same benifits and services as a person making twenty thousand bucks a year? Same for any kind of progressive type tax. Shouldn't a fair tax be spread out evenly?

 

[Katzndogz]

Forget the idea of tax. The liberal concept of equality isn't how much is taken. It's how much the individual is left with after what they have is taken. Even if the corporate CEO is taxed at 90%, that CEO will still be left with more than the janitor makes. The only way to make things fair and equal, is to take everything from the CEO until the CEO and the Janitor's salary is equalized. It might be a tax of 99.75% and that might not be enough. The obamadaddy thought that all salaries should be taxed at 100% with the government providing subsistence, equally. That's the essence of marxism, to each according to his needs, from each according to their ability.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Is there such a thing as a fair tax? Seems no matter what kind of system is used, it turns out to be unfair to some people. My thinking is that the closest thing to a fair tax or taxes are user fee type taxes and sales taxes. Everything else allows some folks to pay little or nothing, and others to pay way to much. I don't consider a flat tax to be fair. Why should a person making a hundred thousand bucks a year have to pay way more for the same benifits and services as a person making twenty thousand bucks a year? Same for any kind of progressive type tax. Shouldn't a fair tax be spread out evenly?

Define "evenly".

Isn't that really the question?

 

[Camp]

Is there such a thing as a fair tax? Seems no matter what kind of system is used, it turns out to be unfair to some people. My thinking is that the closest thing to a fair tax or taxes are user fee type taxes and sales taxes. Everything else allows some folks to pay little or nothing, and others to pay way to much. I don't consider a flat tax to be fair. Why should a person making a hundred thousand bucks a year have to pay way more for the same benifits and services as a person making twenty thousand bucks a year? Same for any kind of progressive type tax. Shouldn't a fair tax be spread out evenly?

Define "evenly".

Isn't that really the question?

Well that didn't take long. Evenly would mean everyone paid the exact amount. A set amount to be paid by or for each individual. That is not a workable system. The amount to be paid would be beyond what many and even what most citizens could afford
The closest I can imagine taxes being evenly applied are those user fee taxes and sales taxes. Everyone pays the same percentage of taxes based on what they "consume" from the benifits or services they obtain from the government. The tax payer has the option of regulating what they pay in taxes. Less taxes are applied to persons who do not use specific government benifits and services.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

... Evenly would mean everyone paid the exact amount. ...

Yes, that would be one possible definition, although not one I would agree could ever be "even".

It could also be a set percentage of each dollar earned.

Or it could be one of the gazillion variations that are talked about constantly.

My intention was simply to point out that "evenly" means something different to different people.

 

[GHook93]

Is there such a thing as a fair tax? Seems no matter what kind of system is used, it turns out to be unfair to some people. My thinking is that the closest thing to a fair tax or taxes are user fee type taxes and sales taxes. Everything else allows some folks to pay little or nothing, and others to pay way to much. I don't consider a flat tax to be fair. Why should a person making a hundred thousand bucks a year have to pay way more for the same benifits and services as a person making twenty thousand bucks a year? Same for any kind of progressive type tax. Shouldn't a fair tax be spread out evenly?

It's the savior of America! It's a consumption tax. It replaces the income, corporate tax, payroll (SSN), capital gains (investment tax) and death tax and replaces it with a consumption/sales tax.

Why is this great.
(1) First it will lower taxes on everyone, because everyone at least pays the payroll taxes.
(2) Prices and inflation will go DOWN. First, C-Corps will not have the corporate tax to pay, so they won't have to push that cost onto consumers. C-Corps are the only businesses that pay the corporate tax. Most business are not C-Corps. Every other business entity, S Corp, LLC, LP, LLP, SP and partnerships have flow through taxation at the individual level. These business will not have to push those costs onto the consumer also. Costs will go down.
(3) There will be ZERO incentive to offshore to avoid taxes.
(4) Zero income taxes will provide the US business the weapon it needs to compete with the slave wages over seasons.
(5) Investment income will be worth more.

Yes the tax will add to the cost of products, but the benefits well outweigh the negative aspects!

 

[PMZ]

Nothing in life is fair. It's a purely subjective concept. It has no application to taxes.

 

[Camp]

Nothing in life is fair. It's a purely subjective concept. It has no application to taxes.

Lots of things in life are fair. It's nobodys fault but your own that your glass is half empty and not half full.

 

[PMZ]

Nothing in life is fair. It's a purely subjective concept. It has no application to taxes.

Lots of things in life are fair. It's nobodys fault but your own that your glass is half empty and not half full.

"Lots of things in life are fair."

Name one.

 

[Camp]

Nothing in life is fair. It's a purely subjective concept. It has no application to taxes.

Lots of things in life are fair. It's nobodys fault but your own that your glass is half empty and not half full.

"Lots of things in life are fair."

Name one.

It starts at birth and ends at death. Life is full of fair stuff and unfair stuff. If you are born healthy, with all your limbs and body parts and a brain that gives you normal intelligence, that is fair. If you are born with a missing limb, but above average intelligence, that might be fair too. If you die in your sleep a little time beyond what the average person lives, thats fair. Some people are born and go through life always on the unfair side of things. They are usually the grumpy and sad people. Other folks seem to think they are always treated fairly. They are the happy people.

 

[Camp]

Nothing in life is fair. It's a purely subjective concept. It has no application to taxes.

Lots of things in life are fair. It's nobodys fault but your own that your glass is half empty and not half full.

"Lots of things in life are fair."

Name one.

The fuel tax seems fair to me.

 

[PMZ]

Lots of things in life are fair. It's nobodys fault but your own that your glass is half empty and not half full.

"Lots of things in life are fair."

Name one.

It starts at birth and ends at death. Life is full of fair stuff and unfair stuff. If you are born healthy, with all your limbs and body parts and a brain that gives you normal intelligence, that is fair. If you are born with a missing limb, but above average intelligence, that might be fair too. If you die in your sleep a little time beyond what the average person lives, thats fair. Some people are born and go through life always on the unfair side of things. They are usually the grumpy and sad people. Other folks seem to think they are always treated fairly. They are the happy people.

The fact that there is good and bad luck is not fair.

 

[Camp]

"Lots of things in life are fair."

Name one.

It starts at birth and ends at death. Life is full of fair stuff and unfair stuff. If you are born healthy, with all your limbs and body parts and a brain that gives you normal intelligence, that is fair. If you are born with a missing limb, but above average intelligence, that might be fair too. If you die in your sleep a little time beyond what the average person lives, thats fair. Some people are born and go through life always on the unfair side of things. They are usually the grumpy and sad people. Other folks seem to think they are always treated fairly. They are the happy people.

The fact that there is good and bad luck is not fair.

OK, your comment is fair. Is the fuel tax fair?

 

[PMZ]

It starts at birth and ends at death. Life is full of fair stuff and unfair stuff. If you are born healthy, with all your limbs and body parts and a brain that gives you normal intelligence, that is fair. If you are born with a missing limb, but above average intelligence, that might be fair too. If you die in your sleep a little time beyond what the average person lives, thats fair. Some people are born and go through life always on the unfair side of things. They are usually the grumpy and sad people. Other folks seem to think they are always treated fairly. They are the happy people.

The fact that there is good and bad luck is not fair.

OK, your comment is fair. Is the fuel tax fair?

I think that it could be fairer, but never will be. To be fair it would have to be based on recovering all of, and only, the costs of each level of government associated with its use. Like the wars that we fight to maintain its supply, and the cost of AGW induced, extreme weather consequences.

Even then it would be more fair if it was levied in accordance to uses. A lawnmower gallon of gas doesn't impact road maintenance and repair.

But perfectly fair is impossible to even describe.

 

[Camp]

The fact that there is good and bad luck is not fair.

OK, your comment is fair. Is the fuel tax fair?

I think that it could be fairer, but never will be. To be fair it would have to be based on recovering all of, and only, the costs of each level of government associated with its use. Like the wars that we fight to maintain its supply, and the cost of AGW induced, extreme weather consequences.

Even then it would be more fair if it was levied in accordance to uses. A lawnmower gallon of gas doesn't impact road maintenance and repair.

But perfectly fair is impossible to even describe.

So, if there is no such thing as a real "fair tax", my question should be "what would be the fairest tax". I lean towards a national sales tax of some sort.

 

[PMZ]

OK, your comment is fair. Is the fuel tax fair?

I think that it could be fairer, but never will be. To be fair it would have to be based on recovering all of, and only, the costs of each level of government associated with its use. Like the wars that we fight to maintain its supply, and the cost of AGW induced, extreme weather consequences.

Even then it would be more fair if it was levied in accordance to uses. A lawnmower gallon of gas doesn't impact road maintenance and repair.

But perfectly fair is impossible to even describe.

So, if there is no such thing as a real "fair tax", my question should be "what would be the fairest tax". I lean towards a national sales tax of some sort.

One recognized consequence of capitalism is its tendency to distribute wealth from some segments of the population to others. The longer it goes on, the richer the rich get, the poorer the poor get. That's the motivational aspects of it.

The most dysfunctional aspect of that is that in most societies wealth confers power and power tilts the playing field. It can become irreversible. And society can become unstable, a consequence that has no winners.

So one aspect of taxes on money, income or wealth, is to undue, to some degree, what capitalism does.

Fair? Depends. Some would say no, but would not like the consequences of not restoring some of what capitalism creates.

The people that capitalism benefits the most give back some of their winnings.

Capitalism's losers, win some back.

Society remains stable.

There is substantial evidence that we aren't doing enough correction these days. Many social ills on the rise these days correlate highly with extreme wealth inequality. We are among the most extreme in our inequity. The top 20% of us possess all but 15% of the wealth.

"Fair" is what works.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I think that it could be fairer, but never will be. To be fair it would have to be based on recovering all of, and only, the costs of each level of government associated with its use. Like the wars that we fight to maintain its supply, and the cost of AGW induced, extreme weather consequences.

Even then it would be more fair if it was levied in accordance to uses. A lawnmower gallon of gas doesn't impact road maintenance and repair.

But perfectly fair is impossible to even describe.

So, if there is no such thing as a real "fair tax", my question should be "what would be the fairest tax". I lean towards a national sales tax of some sort.

One recognized consequence of capitalism is its tendency to distribute wealth from some segments of the population to others. The longer it goes on, the richer the rich get, the poorer the poor get. That's the motivational aspects of it.

The most dysfunctional aspect of that is that in most societies wealth confers power and power tilts the playing field. It can become irreversible. And society can become unstable, a consequence that has no winners.

So one aspect of taxes on money, income or wealth, is to undue, to some degree, what capitalism does.

Fair? Depends. Some would say no, but would not like the consequences of not restoring some of what capitalism creates.

The people that capitalism benefits the most give back some of their winnings.

Capitalism's losers, win some back.

Society remains stable.

There is substantial evidence that we aren't doing enough correction these days. Many social ills on the rise these days correlate highly with extreme wealth inequality. We are among the most extreme in our inequity. The top 20% of us possess all but 15% of the wealth.

"Fair" is what works.

One recognized consequence of capitalism is its tendency to distribute wealth from some segments of the population to others.

When you buy a styrofoam beer cooler and a box of Pop Tarts from WalMart, are you distributing wealth to the Walton family?

 

[PMZ]

So, if there is no such thing as a real "fair tax", my question should be "what would be the fairest tax". I lean towards a national sales tax of some sort.

One recognized consequence of capitalism is its tendency to distribute wealth from some segments of the population to others. The longer it goes on, the richer the rich get, the poorer the poor get. That's the motivational aspects of it.

The most dysfunctional aspect of that is that in most societies wealth confers power and power tilts the playing field. It can become irreversible. And society can become unstable, a consequence that has no winners.

So one aspect of taxes on money, income or wealth, is to undue, to some degree, what capitalism does.

Fair? Depends. Some would say no, but would not like the consequences of not restoring some of what capitalism creates.

The people that capitalism benefits the most give back some of their winnings.

Capitalism's losers, win some back.

Society remains stable.

There is substantial evidence that we aren't doing enough correction these days. Many social ills on the rise these days correlate highly with extreme wealth inequality. We are among the most extreme in our inequity. The top 20% of us possess all but 15% of the wealth.

"Fair" is what works.

One recognized consequence of capitalism is its tendency to distribute wealth from some segments of the population to others.

When you buy a styrofoam beer cooler and a box of Pop Tarts from WalMart, are you distributing wealth to the Walton family?

This is actually pretty typical of the folks who love the idea of poorer.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

One recognized consequence of capitalism is its tendency to distribute wealth from some segments of the population to others. The longer it goes on, the richer the rich get, the poorer the poor get. That's the motivational aspects of it.

The most dysfunctional aspect of that is that in most societies wealth confers power and power tilts the playing field. It can become irreversible. And society can become unstable, a consequence that has no winners.

So one aspect of taxes on money, income or wealth, is to undue, to some degree, what capitalism does.

Fair? Depends. Some would say no, but would not like the consequences of not restoring some of what capitalism creates.

The people that capitalism benefits the most give back some of their winnings.

Capitalism's losers, win some back.

Society remains stable.

There is substantial evidence that we aren't doing enough correction these days. Many social ills on the rise these days correlate highly with extreme wealth inequality. We are among the most extreme in our inequity. The top 20% of us possess all but 15% of the wealth.

"Fair" is what works.

One recognized consequence of capitalism is its tendency to distribute wealth from some segments of the population to others.

When you buy a styrofoam beer cooler and a box of Pop Tarts from WalMart, are you distributing wealth to the Walton family?

This is actually pretty typical of the folks who love the idea of poorer.

You avoiding the question is pretty typical of a liberal.

 

[arKangel]

Is there such a thing as a fair tax? Seems no matter what kind of system is used, it turns out to be unfair to some people. My thinking is that the closest thing to a fair tax or taxes are user fee type taxes and sales taxes. Everything else allows some folks to pay little or nothing, and others to pay way to much. I don't consider a flat tax to be fair. Why should a person making a hundred thousand bucks a year have to pay way more for the same benifits and services as a person making twenty thousand bucks a year? Same for any kind of progressive type tax. Shouldn't a fair tax be spread out evenly?

Fair tax = no tax.

0%

The wealthiest benefit the most from taxation.
(That is why they generally agree to "pay" the most "percentage")

If they are able to extort monies, then they of course support taxation. It is simple.