What The Founding Fathers Thought About Corporations

[Dick Tuck]

Yes, it's just a blog. But it makes an interesting argument, using facts. So instead of shooting the messenger, and feeble minded flaming (from both sides). Let's try something new, and have an intelligent discussion (yeah, I know I'm dreaming).

What The Founding Fathers Thought About Corporations

One interesting observation comes from Jefferson.

1802 letter to Secretary of State Albert Gallatin, Jefferson said,

“If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them (around the banks), will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.”

Thomas Jefferson also said this in 1816,

“I hope that we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.”

How well did he describe our financial near collapse of 2008? It seems to predict what will happen if we allow financial institutions to become "too big to fail" pretty well.

Then you have Lincoln:

“We may congratulate ourselves that this cruel war is nearing its end. It has cost a vast amount of treasure and blood … It has indeed been a trying hour for the Republic; but I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. As a result of war, corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands, and the Republic is destroyed. I feel at this moment more anxiety for the safety of my country than ever before, even in the midst of war. God grant that my suspicions may prove groundless.”

 

[SniperFire]

Jefferson can be quoted to take both sides of any issue.

 

[WillowTree]

Yes, it's just a blog. But it makes an interesting argument, using facts. So instead of shooting the messenger, and feeble minded flaming (from both sides). Let's try something new, and have an intelligent discussion (yeah, I know I'm dreaming).

What The Founding Fathers Thought About Corporations

One interesting observation comes from Jefferson.

1802 letter to Secretary of State Albert Gallatin, Jefferson said,

“If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them (around the banks), will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.”

Thomas Jefferson also said this in 1816,

“I hope that we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.”

How well did he describe our financial near collapse of 2008? It seems to predict what will happen if we allow financial institutions to become "too big to fail" pretty well.

Then you have Lincoln:

“We may congratulate ourselves that this cruel war is nearing its end. It has cost a vast amount of treasure and blood … It has indeed been a trying hour for the Republic; but I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. As a result of war, corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands, and the Republic is destroyed. I feel at this moment more anxiety for the safety of my country than ever before, even in the midst of war. God grant that my suspicions may prove groundless.”

what do you plan on replacing corporations with?

 

[SniperFire]

Yes, it's just a blog. But it makes an interesting argument, using facts. So instead of shooting the messenger, and feeble minded flaming (from both sides). Let's try something new, and have an intelligent discussion (yeah, I know I'm dreaming).

What The Founding Fathers Thought About Corporations

One interesting observation comes from Jefferson.

1802 letter to Secretary of State Albert Gallatin, Jefferson said,

“If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them (around the banks), will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.”

Thomas Jefferson also said this in 1816,

“I hope that we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.”

How well did he describe our financial near collapse of 2008? It seems to predict what will happen if we allow financial institutions to become "too big to fail" pretty well.

Then you have Lincoln:

“We may congratulate ourselves that this cruel war is nearing its end. It has cost a vast amount of treasure and blood … It has indeed been a trying hour for the Republic; but I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. As a result of war, corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands, and the Republic is destroyed. I feel at this moment more anxiety for the safety of my country than ever before, even in the midst of war. God grant that my suspicions may prove groundless.”

what do you plan on replacing corporations with?

The Nanny State, of course!

 

[g5000]

what do you plan on replacing corporations with?

Corporations should not be replaced. We just need to make sure there are safeguards which prevent the unnatural redistribution of wealth from the pockets of the common man into the rich man's vault.

If the law and its enforcers allow the defrauding and robbing of ordinary people, then our Republic is in jeopardy.

 

[Dick Tuck]

Jefferson can be quoted to take both sides of any issue.

What quotes did you have in mind? He, like many changed their pov when confronted with pragmatic choices. One in particular is the "small government" Madison, who fought against a National Bank, but did a 180 after Washington was burned, after the failure of the local militias to stop the British at the Battle of Bladensburg. It also turned him around about reliance on local militias, who lost that battle, in spite of having 2 to 1 superiority in troops.

 

[g5000]

Jefferson can be quoted to take both sides of any issue.

Not really. Jefferson strongly believed in a progressive tax system and an agrarian society. He strongly opposed federalism. There is not much mystery to where he stood on issues.

The problem is using the term "Founding Fathers" as though they were monolithic in their opinions and backgrounds. Casual examination shows they were far from agreement on all matters.

For example, the polar opposite of Jefferson was Hamilton. I'm sure you could find all kinds of supportive statements from Hamilton when it comes to businesses and banks. Especially banks.

The GOP has strayed a long way from Jeffersonian ideals. It is more representative of Hamilton's views these days.

 

[Dick Tuck]

Yes, it's just a blog. But it makes an interesting argument, using facts. So instead of shooting the messenger, and feeble minded flaming (from both sides). Let's try something new, and have an intelligent discussion (yeah, I know I'm dreaming).

What The Founding Fathers Thought About Corporations

One interesting observation comes from Jefferson.

1802 letter to Secretary of State Albert Gallatin, Jefferson said,

“If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them (around the banks), will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.”

Thomas Jefferson also said this in 1816,

“I hope that we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.”

How well did he describe our financial near collapse of 2008? It seems to predict what will happen if we allow financial institutions to become "too big to fail" pretty well.

Then you have Lincoln:

“We may congratulate ourselves that this cruel war is nearing its end. It has cost a vast amount of treasure and blood … It has indeed been a trying hour for the Republic; but I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. As a result of war, corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands, and the Republic is destroyed. I feel at this moment more anxiety for the safety of my country than ever before, even in the midst of war. God grant that my suspicions may prove groundless.”

what do you plan on replacing corporations with?

I wouldn't. World commerce is too complex today. What I would do is regulate them, especially in areas that threaten our Republic. When owners of corporations receive the benefit of limited liability, they have to give up something in return. Do you know that the founders cancelled the corporate charter of the company building the Erie Canal, because the corporation tried to use their largess to influence legislation?

Consider the real Boston Tea Party. George III gave the East Indian Tea Company an exclusive franchise in the states, in return for them collecting taxes on their sales. Our patriots boarded their ships, and threw their property over the side, into Boston's harbor. They made Occupy Wall Street look like pikers in their actions.

 

[Oddball]

Was this the same Thomas Jefferson who owned slaves and had an illegitimate child with one of them?

 

[Dick Tuck]

Was this the same Thomas Jefferson who owned slaves and had an illegitimate child with one of them?

One and the same, but lets try not to stray off topic. He was also co-author of the Declaration of Independence and our third president. One could reasonably call him one of our founders. Now, there's also his partner in the authorship of that great document, John Adams, who wrote:

“Banks have done more injury to the religion, morality, tranquility, prosperity, and even wealth of the nation than they can have done or ever will do good.”

John Adams didn't poontang or own slaves. His son even advocated for the slaves on the Amistead.

 

[WillowTree]

what do you plan on replacing corporations with?

Corporations should not be replaced. We just need to make sure there are safeguards which prevent the unnatural redistribution of wealth from the pockets of the common man into the rich man's vault.

If the law and its enforcers allow the defrauding and robbing of ordinary people, then our Republic is in jeopardy.

what would those safeguards be exactly?

 

[Gremlin-USA]

I am a corporation, I only have one employee, guess I am evil

 

[SniperFire]

He strongly opposed federalism.

"We are all republicans -- we are all federalists," Thomas Jefferson told the American people in his first inaugural address.'

Thomas Jefferson, Federalist. | Essays in History

Like I said.

 

[WillowTree]

Yes, it's just a blog. But it makes an interesting argument, using facts. So instead of shooting the messenger, and feeble minded flaming (from both sides). Let's try something new, and have an intelligent discussion (yeah, I know I'm dreaming).

What The Founding Fathers Thought About Corporations

One interesting observation comes from Jefferson.



How well did he describe our financial near collapse of 2008? It seems to predict what will happen if we allow financial institutions to become "too big to fail" pretty well.

Then you have Lincoln:

what do you plan on replacing corporations with?

I wouldn't. World commerce is too complex today. What I would do is regulate them, especially in areas that threaten our Republic. When owners of corporations receive the benefit of limited liability, they have to give up something in return. Do you know that the founders cancelled the corporate charter of the company building the Erie Canal, because the corporation tried to use their largess to influence legislation?

Consider the real Boston Tea Party. George III gave the East Indian Tea Company an exclusive franchise in the states, in return for them collecting taxes on their sales. Our patriots boarded their ships, and threw their property over the side, into Boston's harbor. They made Occupy Wall Street look like pikers in their actions.

Like what would they have to give up exactly?

 

[asaratis]

Limiting several things seems to me to be in order.

One...the terms of service for politicians. There should be a limit to how long a person can "represent" those back home. This would limit their "power of incumbency" and decrease the contributions that lobbyists are willing to make to them.

Two...the contributions to campaigns. To be closer to fair, political candidates for certain offices should be allowed to spend X dollars and no more. The best man wins...not the one with the most cash on hand.

Three...the access to legislators by lobbyists. Lobbyists should not be permitted to present anything other than written ideas to legislators. No money, no gifts, no free tickets, no dinners, no NOTHING.

 

[Mr.Nick]

Jefferson can be quoted to take both sides of any issue.

That is one thing about Jefferson - He contradicted himself all the time..

Thomas Jefferson's Letters

 

[Oddball]

If the framers hated corporations so much, why did they incorporate the District of Columbia?

 

[Dick Tuck]

what do you plan on replacing corporations with?

Corporations should not be replaced. We just need to make sure there are safeguards which prevent the unnatural redistribution of wealth from the pockets of the common man into the rich man's vault.

If the law and its enforcers allow the defrauding and robbing of ordinary people, then our Republic is in jeopardy.

what would those safeguards be exactly?

We could start with K Street, which finds new interesting ways to legally bribe our elected officials. If you got rid of every single perk a registered lobbyist could give an elected official, and the only thing they could do was argue a POV, that would be a start. No phony fact finding trips paid by them. No phony golf outings, disguised as charity tournaments, or vacations disguised as fact finding missions, paying for anything for an elected official or their staff. No lobbyist run PACs.

Then we could work on recusal of any federal legislature, who had direct interest, or a direct family member (mother, father, spouse, sibling, or child) who had equity, including options, employment, contract or consulting agreement, from voting on legislation on any public law where a clear material gain could be demonstrated.

 

[WillowTree]

Corporations should not be replaced. We just need to make sure there are safeguards which prevent the unnatural redistribution of wealth from the pockets of the common man into the rich man's vault.

If the law and its enforcers allow the defrauding and robbing of ordinary people, then our Republic is in jeopardy.

what would those safeguards be exactly?

We could start with K Street, which finds new interesting ways to legally bribe our elected officials. If you got rid of every single perk a registered lobbyist could give an elected official, and the only thing they could do was argue a POV, that would be a start. No phony fact finding trips paid by them. No phony golf outings, disguised as charity tournaments, or vacations disguised as fact finding missions, paying for anything for an elected official or their staff. No lobbyist run PACs.

Then we could work on recusal of any federal legislature, who had direct interest, or a direct family member (mother, father, spouse, sibling, or child) who had equity, including options, employment, contract or consulting agreement, from voting on legislation on any public law where a clear material gain could be demonstrated.

and the unions too? is that correct?

 

[SniperFire]

Corporations should not be replaced. We just need to make sure there are safeguards which prevent the unnatural redistribution of wealth from the pockets of the common man into the rich man's vault.

If the law and its enforcers allow the defrauding and robbing of ordinary people, then our Republic is in jeopardy.

what would those safeguards be exactly?

We could start with K Street, which finds new interesting ways to legally bribe our elected officials. If you got rid of every single perk a registered lobbyist could give an elected official, and the only thing they could do was argue a POV, that would be a start. No phony fact finding trips paid by them. No phony golf outings, disguised as charity tournaments, or vacations disguised as fact finding missions, paying for anything for an elected official or their staff. No lobbyist run PACs.

Then we could work on recusal of any federal legislature, who had direct interest, or a direct family member (mother, father, spouse, sibling, or child) who had equity, including options, employment, contract or consulting agreement, from voting on legislation on any public law where a clear material gain could be demonstrated.

Do you feel the same way about Unions and their influence peddling, Lefty?