what so bad about socialism

[Two Thumbs]

I've seen and experienced great things in countries that are more geared to socialism. The happiest rated countries in the world are all highly socialistic countries. Why can't we do what we already know that works?

Greece, Italy, Spain, USSR, China, N. Korea, most african nations, most S American nations, most C American nations.

not to mention the HUGE body count.

"what so bad about socialism"

Conservatives have no idea what it really is.

actually we do.

See we look up from the dictionary definition of it and read the historical results of it and we did this thing called "learned".

we "learned" that the reality of socialism is just terrible and we don't want that to happen in America.

If you could learn, you wouldn't support it, but you're a leftist, so sadly you can't learn.

 

[danielpalos]

I've seen and experienced great things in countries that are more geared to socialism. The happiest rated countries in the world are all highly socialistic countries. Why can't we do what we already know that works?

Greece, Italy, Spain, USSR, China, N. Korea, most african nations, most S American nations, most C American nations.

not to mention the HUGE body count.

"what so bad about socialism"

Conservatives have no idea what it really is.

actually we do.

See we look up from the dictionary definition of it and read the historical results of it and we did this thing called "learned".

we "learned" that the reality of socialism is just terrible and we don't want that to happen in America.

If you could learn, you wouldn't support it, but you're a leftist, so sadly you can't learn.

The right still doesn't know that socialism is like Palmolive; we are all soaking in it. Socialism starts with a Social Contract like our Constitution.

 

[Two Thumbs]

I've seen and experienced great things in countries that are more geared to socialism. The happiest rated countries in the world are all highly socialistic countries. Why can't we do what we already know that works?

Greece, Italy, Spain, USSR, China, N. Korea, most african nations, most S American nations, most C American nations.

not to mention the HUGE body count.

"what so bad about socialism"

Conservatives have no idea what it really is.

actually we do.

See we look up from the dictionary definition of it and read the historical results of it and we did this thing called "learned".

we "learned" that the reality of socialism is just terrible and we don't want that to happen in America.

If you could learn, you wouldn't support it, but you're a leftist, so sadly you can't learn.

The right still doesn't know that socialism is like Palmolive; we are all soaking in it. Socialism starts with a Social Contract like our Constitution.

That's the dumbest thing I have ever read in my entire life and I have been here nearly 5 years.

Please don't breed, for the love of all that's good in humanity, take your highly defective genes out of the pool.

 

[bripat9643]

I really thought I would have more support than this. Liberal's don't like free stuff sir, but we don't like people so suffer, and we do want everyone living outside of poverty, and enjoying there lives. I encourage anyone with very different views to please google happiest countries in the world, and see the results. Then spend some time looking that there politics, benefits, and rights... You might be surprised what you find.

View attachment 45824

You can't measure happiness, so your list is meaningless. It's flypaper for suckers.

I can measure my happiness very easily. It's an emotion that I think most human can scale. So I can't agree with your statement.

What are the units of happiness? How do you measure them?

 

[danielpalos]

what is so bad about socialism; it is like using leverage and requires Good Management to achieve good results.

 

[Wry Catcher]

It'll only cause them to dig deeper in their trenches, and their hate and anger we caused them will be their fuel.

I mean, GOD. If you want to win an ideological war, you have to change minds. Being calm, kind, patient and rational might just help!

Asking bripat or the other fool who began his post questioning the IQ of the author of the OP to be rational is unrealistic.

 

[danielpalos]

Socialism got us to the Moon and back last millennium; Capitalism has yet to discover (and be faithful to our California State Motto, a Capital profit motive--it is why Socialists on the left will always be better Capitalists than socialists on the Right; the left knows to merely and simply Use Capitalism for All of its worth.

It may be why Capitalism is Only useless to the Right.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

what is so bad about socialism;

nothing really except it slowly starved 120 million souls to death making it the dumbest and deadliest political idea in all of human history. Try to imagine how stupid liberals must be to subscribe to it.

 

[danielpalos]

Because, it merely and only requires the "hard work" of Good Management.

Social morals for free should Always be Good and not Bad.

Is not Only capitalism useless to the Right but also a potential, Commune of Heaven on Earth where Man has no need for the Expense of Government.

If men were angels, no government would be necessary.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Socialism got us to the Moon and back last millennium; Capitalism has yet to discover (and be faithful to our California State Motto, a Capital profit motive--it is why Socialists on the left will always be better Capitalists than socialists on the Right; the left knows to merely and simply Use Capitalism for All of its worth.

It may be why Capitalism is Only useless to the Right.

Socialism created the Great Depression.

but yea, landing on the moon did so much for the country

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Because, it merely and only requires the "hard work" of Good Management.

10000% stupid of course. Good management emerges only after decades of capitalist competition and even then it sometimes fails.

The idea that a govt monopoly could be well managed is utterly and perfectly stupid and of course liberal and very deadly.

Do you lack the IQ to understand? See why we are positive that liberalism is based in pure ignorance and so only attracts the very stupid?

 

[danielpalos]

Only in a vacuum of special pleading; dear Person on the Right. The left knows to assume full employment of resources in any given market and correct to full employment merely and simply in the name of Socialism bailing out Capitalism, as a moral and ethic in modern times.

 

[dblack]

Only in a vacuum of special pleading; dear Person on the Right. The left knows to assume full employment of resources in any given market and correct to full employment merely and simply in the name of Socialism bailing out Capitalism, as a moral and ethic in modern times.

Right on!

 

[Toro]

Even though Margaret may have felt this way, the UK is a very success socialistic country, and provides amazing citizen benefits that American could only dream about.

The UK sucked as a socialist country.

 

[Toro]

The most successful Labour party leader ever warns the Labour Party to not go backwards and nominate a socialist for leader.

Tony Blair warns against moving left as Jeremy Corbyn leads poll - BBC News

Why? Because the former leader of the formerly socialist party knows why socialism sucks so much.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

The left knows to assume full employment

too stupid the left knows how to slowly starved 120 million souls to death with their soviet management and "hard work."

You are a devil in human form with bad english

 

[Andylusion]

Even though Margaret may have felt this way, the UK is a very success socialistic country, and provides amazing citizen benefits that American could only dream about.

First, I've been the UK. We'd have to drastically cut our standard of living down, to meet the UK standard. Some of the poorest people in our country, have a standard of living that UK citizen could only dream about.

Further, those 'amazing benefits' are not so amazing. The waiting lists for getting treatment in the UK, makes the way the VA treated our vets here in the US, look like they were getting royalty service.

When our vets were waiting months, their average citizens were waiting years. When we were appalled by how long our vets were waiting to get help, people in the UK were saying "what? That's it?".

Well maybe you do make good arguments. I've never lived in the UK, sounds like you have, and must be a citizen to comment with so much emotion. I did however live in Australia for 5 years, and became a Citizen. It seems your primary focus was around Healthcare. So I'll comment about the Australia Healthcare system. Every Australian has free (paid by taxes) healthcare, that I and my family used several times. They also have a private system as well. So if you have the money, by all means go to a private hospital, with your private insurance (just like in America) If you don't however, people are not turned away, or stuck with absurd bills that they'll never be able to pay off.

I had my second child in a public Hospital in Australia. By weekly doc appointments, ultrasounds, 5 days in a private room after the baby was born. Everything that I would receive in America I got in Australia and It cost us $0... What a relief it was, and wish many other can experience not having to be scared of what the bill is going to be. It's a great feeling, let me tell you. On a separate occasion I needed an MRI, which I got in a few days after my doctor requested it. They sent me to the private hospital, and the public system paid the bill. Great service, with out the worries.

So when our Vets wait months (which is awful, and needs work) it doesn't mean other free services are bad. They can be quit good when managed properly.

I did not live there for an extended period of time. But I did live with missionaries who did live there, as well as military personnel stationed there. External to that, I listen to the BBC out of Briton every single day, and read numerous publications, most notably from the London School of economics.

Further I have many friends who live in the UK to this day. Obviously the biggest reason I know so much about the UK specifically, is because all the information sources are in English. I recently did a major post on Greece, and that was hard because all the source were in Greek.

That said, you mentioned Australia. Here's the biggest deception of socialism. Any socialist system, will work fantastically, as long as the money keeps coming.

As Margaret pointed out in the 1980s, eventually you run out of other people's money.

Yes, you had free health care, and it was fantastic. Soviet Russia also had free stuff for it's people too... until they went broke, and everyone was starving, and the entire empire imploded on itself.

Perhaps that was an isolated example?

What about the subsidized food in Venezuela, under Hugo Chavez's "21st Century Socialism"?

Food shortages. Electricity shortages. Heck, they have shortages of paper products.

Still could be isolated.

Cuba in the 1950s, had hospitals and health care, on par with American health care.

Cuban health care today.... isn't quite the same. This is the Cuban version of a CVS or Walgreen.

Let me ask you, do you think all of these systems got that way, in a day? Or even a week? How long did it take for American quality care, to end up shacks with broken windows?

It didn't happen in a month. It happens over a long extended period of time.

If it happened quickly, everyone would see socialism as the failure that it is. But because it happens gradually over a long time frame.... the Soviet Union had to reach the point, people had to be imprisoned for cannibalism, because they were eating each other suffering from starvation.

Because at some point, you run out of other people's money.

This is a public hospital in Greece. These people are the some of the staff who have no jobs. Socialism works great. I'm sure just last year, Greek people were walking in these doors thinking "What a relief it was, and wish many other can experience not having to be scared of what the bill is going to be. It's a great feeling, let me tell you."

I wonder what they are thinking now.... Now that they can't even pay to get service.....

But hey... we were talking about Australia, right? And Australia doesn't have any problems at all! There system works great, and is fully funded, and still free........ right.....?

Australian hospital waiting times worsen under health reform - World Socialist Web Site

An official progress report on the Australian government’s health and hospital reform plan has revealed lengthening public hospital waiting lists, continuing failures in emergency departments to treat critically-ill patients within medically safe times and widespread delays for patients seeking access to general practitioners (GPs) and specialists.​

Or not....... Australia's system is also running out of money too. As a result, longer wait times, delays in seeing doctors. "waiting lists" that go on for months. Emergency rooms failing to get to critically ill patients.

What does this sound like? It sounds exactly like the VA system here in the US, which is socialized and free too.

Let me explain to you why this is. It's actually very fundamental to the system. It doesn't matter who you elect into government. If you've read "The Road to Serfdom" by Friedrich Hayek, you'll know that his entire point was that inherently, the worst people are elected to high office.

But even if you elect good people, the system itself inherently fails.

Lets take that MRI you mentioned. In a capitalist free-market system, customers pay for the MRI services they use. As a result, as more people use the MRI service, the provider of that service has more money to hire people to provide the service. They have more money to maintain the MRI, and build up capital (from profits) purchase more MRI machines, to expand the MRI service for more people.

In a socialist system, all of that is completely eliminated. As more people show up for MRIs, there simply isn't enough money to provide more MRIs for more people. So you have to have waiting lists. There isn't any profit, and thus there is no capital buy additional MRI machines. Nor is there any additional revenue from paying patients, to pay people to run the MRI machines if you had them.

That's how you end up with crazy stories out of Canada.

For example, Hospitals in Canada could only do a set number of CT scans per day. The result was waiting lists for human patients, that were several years long. But I mention human patients, because the hospital allowed the CT scanner to be used for pets after hours, on a walk in basis. How could they afford to do that, when they couldn't afford to provide more humans with CT scans? Well of course because the pet owners were paying for it.

When the patients are paying for service, you can provide that service, and hire people to run that service.

Even to this day, the average wait time in Canada for an MRI is 18 Months. In 1999, a Canadian patient fed up with the socialist 'free' health care, signed up for MRI service at a Veterinarian center. Cost of MRI? $300. Wait time? 24 hours.

At the time it was illegal to pay for health care. Today, there are private pay-for-service "Capitalist" MRI clinics throughout Canada. Wait time for a private 'pay-for-service' clinic..... 48 hours. Tops. Or you can wait years for an MRI "free".

So my point to you is this.....

Yeah, you might find some socialist health care system, or any socialized system of anything, food, electricity, banking, mail, whatever.... that 'at the moment' is doing great, and has wonderful service.

And it might truly be good.

But eventually, as Thatcher pointed out, you run out of other people's money, and the system declines into ruin. Sooner or later. The soviet union lasted 70 years. But it, like all socialism, failed.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

But eventually, as Thatcher pointed out, you run out of other people's money, and the system declines into ruin. Sooner or later. The soviet union lasted 70 years. But it, like all socialism, failed.

yep, Greece, Puerto Rico, Italy, and USA with its $20 trillion in current debt and $100 trillion in unfunded liabilities are on the chopping block next. Liberalism is just plain stupid irresponsibility.

 

[Andylusion]

Even though Margaret may have felt this way, the UK is a very success socialistic country, and provides amazing citizen benefits that American could only dream about.

I have amazing benefits. Worked my tail to the bone for 50 years but I have a comfortable life and I earned every penny. I don't get anything from the taxpayers.

I'm sure you did sir, and you sound like someone we should all admire. Even though you had success, we just don't live in a world where everyone succeeds no mater how hard they try. I guess I empathize with the people that work and work, and never make it. I myself am very successful, so I'm not looking to take advantage. We'll always need waiters, cashiers, etc..., I think we just can't ignore them.

Socialism in theory is almost heaven but as long as there are certain humans involved a whole herd of them are fighting to be the big dog. Let Socialism stay in Europe.

That's true sir, there will always be humans fighting to the top. We want that... That's what make capitalism such a successful system. I'm pro Capitalism in private industry, but we need government to regulate the big dogs from abusing the rest of the heard. We already have socialism in this country now. Welfare, unemployment, Medicaid, Police protection, Fire, etc... It's my opinion we need more not less. That's all. I'm guessing you feel we need less.

Yeah, we do have socialism in our country, and it's all those areas that are socialized, that have problems.

You don't see us having a massive problem in the office supply department, or the computer industry department.

What are the areas you see problems? Bank and Health care. The two most heavily socialized areas of our economy.

We tripled the amount of unemployment compensation throughout the recession. Did that help? If anything it dragged out the recession.

And lastly, regulation is how the Big Dogs smash the little dogs.

Let's say that I have a major multinational fast food chain... like McDs or something. You have Berry's Burger Joint. You have 3 stores.

I have tens of billions of dollars. You have a few hundred thousand.

Government passes regulations that are going to cost $50,000 per store, to meet those regulations.

Again.... I have tens of Billions. My Mega-Food Joints, make me a $50 billion a year.

You have a few hundred thousand.

Those regulations that you think are going to keep me in check..... they are going to kick you out of business. I can afford to meet those regulations. And all your customers, are going to go to my stores, after your stores go out of business.

And now since you are out of business..... I can jack up my prices..... and now I'm making hundreds of billions a year.

You think I'm making this up? Consider the minimum wage battle.

Owner of pizza shop says new Seattle minimum wage law is forcing her to close Q13 FOX News

Small time shops like Z Pizza, can't afford the higher minimum wage. So their higher paid employees will soon be unemployed, since the store is closing.

McDonalds on the other hand.......

See all those highly paid cashiers? No? You don't see them? Neither do I. I see Kiosks.

See, not only can McDonalds afford to pay a few employees a higher wage, while small shops can't.... McDonald's can also afford to replace those employees with kiosks..... while small shops can't.

Your regulations are not keeping the big companies in check. Your regulations are benefiting those big corporations.

Before Obama care ever came out. Before it was even created, I knew that inherently more regulations on health care, would make the big insurance companies ever more profitable.

Health insurers watch profits soar as they dump small business customers Center for Public Integrity

I'm not shocked. This is exactly what I expected to happen. Regulations always benefit the rich, at the expense of the poor. Obama care is no different.

 

[danielpalos]

Still nothing but propaganda and rhetoric from the clueless and Causeless Right?

Only in a vacuum of special pleading; dear Persons on the Right. The left knows to assume full employment of resources in any given market and correct to full employment merely and simply in the name of Socialism bailing out Capitalism like usual, as a moral and ethic in modern times.