What should we do now: for Liberals

[MrMarbles]

We DID go after Osama. Remember Afghanistan? We knocked out 75% of his henchmen, his training camps, his base of operations, his money sources, his contacts, etc. His power is greatly diminished. He is fearfully hiding somewhere now with a big price on his head.

ps: I still don't hear you applauding...

Catch Osama, and you will get a standing ovation.

The biggest problem with people like yourself is that you are unable to see the consequences of your actions, or should we say, your inactions.

Iraq has become the best recruitment tool for terrorists, you have given them the chance to fight the US.

The difference between Iraq and post-war Germany, Germany wasn't in-line to be heavely exploited by the occupying powers.

I will support an Iraq that is self-governing that is not under America's thumb.

 

[shadrack]

Maybe when the "innocent" Iraqis finally realize that less of them will be killed when the fighting stops, they will start to put pressure on those that hide out and keep the fight going where they live.

Just because they lost a loved one in the war does not mean that they must join the "insurgency" forces. Those that have lost loved ones will never get them back but they can help their relatives and fellow countrymen from losing their still-living loved ones by helping to stop the fighting, rebuild their country, and get on with living a peaceful life without gunfire on the streets. It's their choice.

And it is that line of neocon reasoning - "real change comes through violent, life or death choices" - that causes America's trouble.

Neocons are a bunch of juvenile delinquents who like to play the game "chicken". The problem is that each party (military, insurgents) delays concession until the deadline is imminent.

The U.S. doesn't have to use these tactics. It's our choice.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

And it is that line of neocon reasoning - "real change comes through violent, life or death choices" - that causes America's trouble.

Neocons are a bunch of juvenile delinquents who like to play the game "chicken". The problem is that each party (military, insurgents) delays concession until the deadline is imminent.

The U.S. doesn't have to use these tactics. It's our choice.

,


I beg to differ. Our neocon reasoning is fine. You libs refuse to recognize an enemy who declares himself openly and shits on your face. How stupid are you? Your jihadi appeasement mentality is offensive to god, country, sense, and mankind.

 

[ajwps]

Of course I know there was some violence in the civil rights movement--but there could have been much more. By calling for non-violent protest, MLK and others gained a moral high ground and saved countless lives that would have been lost if he had chosen terrorist means instead.

You say some violence in the Civil Rights movment? MLK gained a moral high ground but it was a white Liberal bigot president Johnson who signed the Civil Rights Legislative bills. MLK was not the force behind Lyndon Johnson, it was the politically expidient thing to do what with all those black people's voting for the Dems since that time.

And getting the British out of India with minimal violence was nothing short of breathtaking. Both examples show how having a moral high ground can work--but of course it only works against enemies with morals who are able to see you as human. Most Muslims have morals, and we could do better at showing them that we're human. Terrorists, of course, don't, and I would never advocate violence against them. Once more, as I said above, we have to differentiate. If people like Screaming Eagle simply lump all the brown people together, that's no better thinking than when an Iraqi on the street concludes that all Americans are sadists because of what happened at Abu Ghraib. Using Screaming Eagle's logic, all Muslims SHOULD want to kill us. Thank goodness most of them are more sensible than he.

Do you have one shred of evidence that the British Empire left India because of non-violent protests? Are you dreaming? The British trained and armed Indian divisions who finally had enough of their masters and no longer followed the Brits orders to keep their own Indian people in subservience forced the British to leave their British India empire and return home.

So you think that lumping all the terrorists with Islam is wrong. If you are your brothers keeper and you allow your brothers to murder innocents, then you find all Islam to be co-conspirators. As with Abu Ghraib, those Americans who (did not torture) but embarrased these terrorists are now on trial for a bit less than cutting off their heads or hanging them from ceiling fans and beating them to death.

Try comparing Apples to Apples instead of to green cheese.

 

[shadrack]

I beg to differ. Our neocon reasoning is fine. You libs refuse to recognize an enemy who declares himself openly and shits on your face. How stupid are you? Your jihadi appeasement mentality is offensive to god, country, sense, and mankind.

I don't know why you always call me a lib. I voted for Bush. I think the U.S. should confront it's enemies.....but to use military means to achieve political ends is questionably reasonable at best.

You neocons refuse to recognize, or you misunderstand, human nature under these circumstances. Blame your own shortcomings and bad choices.

Do you really think the neocons can convert the world into a christian values based democracy? Isn't that their ultimate goal?

 

[TheEnemyWithin]

Do you really think the neocons can convert the world into a christian values based democracy? Isn't that their ultimate goal?

:rotflmao:

Sure that's their goal. :firing: Men! Don't stop shooting until every last muslim converts to Christianity. :



:fifty: << (France)

 

[manu1959]

Do you really think the neocons can convert the world into a christian values based democracy? Isn't that their ultimate goal?

uhhhhhh..... no................... and ............ uhhhhhhhhh.... no

 

[shadrack]

According to so many on this board and elsewhere, America was founded on Christian principles. Neocons also believe that........

"American power should be used not just in the defense of American interests but for the promotion of American principles." - William Kristol

 

[rtwngAvngr]

According to so many on this board and elsewhere, America was founded on Christian principles. Neocons also believe that........

"American power should be used not just in the defense of American interests but for the promotion of American principles." - William Kristol

Neocons will spread religious tolerance, something the left has forgotten all about.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Catch Osama, and you will get a standing ovation.



Iraq has become the best recruitment tool for terrorists, you have given them the chance to fight the US.

The difference between Iraq and post-war Germany, Germany wasn't in-line to be heavely exploited by the occupying powers.

I will support an Iraq that is self-governing that is not under America's thumb.

Hmm, no applause for catching 75% of Osama's organization...just as I figured. There is just no pleasing you libs, is there?

So you think Iraq is "in-line" to be "exploited" by the U.S.? You mean "in-line" after the exploitation of the Oil-for-food program that France, Germany, Russia, etc. and Saddam participated in?

After an adjustment period, was Germany under America's thumb? Was Japan? No, each nation was able to be on its own. Historically, you cannot blame America for invading and colonizing other countries, placing them completely under our power like France has done in the past, like Britain did, like Russia did and is still trying to do... we are not doing that now with Iraq, much as you would like to believe it. We will leave after the threat is gone.

You can call us "neocons" and make up your own ridiculous meanings for the word, but America is just not into taking over the world, even though it is the most powerful nation on earth today. Chaps your ass, does it?

 

[shadrack]

Neocons will spread religious tolerance, something the left has forgotten all about.

America will deliver the concept of tolerance at the end of a gun.

Brilliant strategy.

 

[shadrack]

You can call us "neocons" and make up your own ridiculous meanings for the word, but America is just not into taking over the world, even though it is the most powerful nation on earth today. Chaps your ass, does it?

Neocons define themselves very clearly.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

America will deliver the concept of tolerance at the end of a gun.

Brilliant strategy.

You are not guaranteed a society free of all religious content. You have a right to practice your religion and not have one forced on you. The lefts' constant extension of this protection to somehow entail a right to institutionalized anti-christian zealotry is assinine.

 

[Mariner]

of what you mean by institutionalized anti-Christian zealotry?

Mariner.

 

[Mariner]

Bush's "We've caught 75% of Al Qaeda" was spin. Yes, we have caught 3/4 of the people known to have been in Al Qaeda in 2001. However, our actions in Iraq have inflamed anti-Americanism to the point that Al Qaeda recruiting has accelerated vastly. Invading Iraq was Al Qaeda's best recruiting advertisement. Some estimates are that an organization that originally had a few hundred committed members now has several thousand, and vastly greater support among the more hard-line Muslims.

Did you and Right Wing and other "hard" thinkers here ever ask yourself, "Who's my counterpart in the Muslim world?" Your counterparts would be those who say America is evil (overgeneralizing from the actions of some Americans to those of all of us, just as you do from the actions of some Muslims to all of them). Whatever happened to "Do unto others..."?

Mariner.

 

[MrMarbles]

Hmm, no applause for catching 75% of Osama's organization...just as I figured. There is just no pleasing you libs, is there?

So you think Iraq is "in-line" to be "exploited" by the U.S.? You mean "in-line" after the exploitation of the Oil-for-food program that France, Germany, Russia, etc. and Saddam participated in?

After an adjustment period, was Germany under America's thumb? Was Japan? No, each nation was able to be on its own. Historically, you cannot blame America for invading and colonizing other countries, placing them completely under our power like France has done in the past, like Britain did, like Russia did and is still trying to do... we are not doing that now with Iraq, much as you would like to believe it. We will leave after the threat is gone.

You can call us "neocons" and make up your own ridiculous meanings for the word, but America is just not into taking over the world, even though it is the most powerful nation on earth today. Chaps your ass, does it?

They guy who kicked you in the balls is still running around out there, just because you got some of his buddies dosen't mean the job is done.

Germany was not exploited, it was also completely crushed and occupyed by all Ally nations. It had nothing to offer, and America was in her golden age. Japan, well Japan had American culture thrusted upon her, and she too had no real resouces to offer.

America hasn't invaded and colonized. But it has couped, and undermined, and embargoed, and assasinated it's way into the hearts of many.

I call you 'neo-cons' because you are a new type of self-proclamed conservative. When i call someone neo-con, it's because they are fanatic and reactionary. I'm not sure if I have personally called you one, but now i am, Neo-con! But in the same light you mis-understand the word Liberal, and because of that your own ridiculous meanings come into play.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

of what you mean by institutionalized anti-Christian zealotry?

Mariner.

Telling teachers they can't wear an exposed cross. Telling a teacher he cannot distribute the declaration of independence because it refers to god. feeling justified in having a conyption if someone mentions christ at school during christmas. There are whole books on this subject. would you like a link or would you like to slink away and educate yourself?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Bush's "We've caught 75% of Al Qaeda" was spin. Yes, we have caught 3/4 of the people known to have been in Al Qaeda in 2001. However, our actions in Iraq have inflamed anti-Americanism to the point that Al Qaeda recruiting has accelerated vastly. Invading Iraq was Al Qaeda's best recruiting advertisement. Some estimates are that an organization that originally had a few hundred committed members now has several thousand, and vastly greater support among the more hard-line Muslims.

Did you and Right Wing and other "hard" thinkers here ever ask yourself, "Who's my counterpart in the Muslim world?" Your counterparts would be those who say America is evil (overgeneralizing from the actions of some Americans to those of all of us, just as you do from the actions of some Muslims to all of them). Whatever happened to "Do unto others..."?

Mariner.

So TODAY the war is real? Tomorrow will the whole jihad threat be a cynical wag the dog exercise to inspire fear and support bush's regime. WHichever way the wind blows, eh mariner? There was a red sky this morning.

 

[ajwps]

You are not guaranteed a society free of all religious content. You have a right to practice your religion and not have one forced on you. The lefts' constant extension of this protection to somehow entail a right to institutionalized anti-christian zealotry is assinine.

Religion should be taught to our young children in their public schools. Prayers should be allowed so that children can understand the god of the teacher.

Recently two teachers of India extraction taught the second and fourth grades in a local public school. As is the right of relgious freedom in our public schools, these teachers had the majority Christian children praying to the god Vishnu and the monkey gods.

Remember the right to pray to the god of the teachers is guaranteed by the US Constitutional right to freedom from the government's intrusion into religion in our school systems.

The parents of the children found that they enjoyed their kids praying to the monkey gods because of their public elementary school diversity of religions.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Bush's "We've caught 75% of Al Qaeda" was spin. Yes, we have caught 3/4 of the people known to have been in Al Qaeda in 2001. However, our actions in Iraq have inflamed anti-Americanism to the point that Al Qaeda recruiting has accelerated vastly. Invading Iraq was Al Qaeda's best recruiting advertisement. Some estimates are that an organization that originally had a few hundred committed members now has several thousand, and vastly greater support among the more hard-line Muslims.

Did you and Right Wing and other "hard" thinkers here ever ask yourself, "Who's my counterpart in the Muslim world?" Your counterparts would be those who say America is evil (overgeneralizing from the actions of some Americans to those of all of us, just as you do from the actions of some Muslims to all of them). Whatever happened to "Do unto others..."?

Mariner.

You keep bringing up the fact that a few thousand more terrorists have shown their dirty faces. So what? We are still winning the war. Three fourths of IRaq is peaceful now. If we have to kill a few more than anticipated, its better to do it now than backoff, isn't it? What are you so afraid of?

Who are our counterparts in the Muslim world? I would imagine them to be peaceful type people who only want to live and support their families in a free, peaceful, and prosperous country. I would say that America is definitely "doing unto others" in the way Jesus would have wanted. If America was under the thumb of a sadistic tyrant like Saddam I would certainly welcome the freedom fighters!