What role does Affirmative Action play in the events playing out in Ferguson?

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by Oldstyle, Aug 19, 2014.

  1. Oldstyle
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    Oldstyle Gold Member

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    Many years ago I took an economics class at Amherst College with Thomas Sowell. I remember quite vividly Sowell's objections at that time to Affirmative Action and the reasons WHY he said that it would ultimately fail for low income people. I went back to see if I could find anything online from Sowell on that topic and found the following:



    That was from almost forty years ago. Affirmative Action worked amazingly well for Barack Obama, Eric Holder, Susan Rice and Valerie Jarrett...but hasn't done a THING for young black males like Michael Brown.
     
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  2. Oldstyle
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    Oldstyle Gold Member

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    Sowell's point back then was that Affirmative Action makes it much more likely for blacks with degrees or established job skills to be hired...thus making it a great thing for upper class blacks...but would make it less likely that a young black male with no job skills would be hired. This was a view that was vigorously attacked at that time and yet four decades later the unemployment rate for young blacks is through the roof and cities like Ferguson are filled with young men who have no job opportunities.
     
  3. Bush92
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    Bush92 GHBush1992

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    Affirmative Action was an issue that allowed Democrats to get minority votes, then ignore them. Affirmative Action does not work, it's socialized favoritism that doesn't ensure that the hardest working, best and brightest, rise to the top. Problem in Black community is Blacks. Raise your children, value education, stop looking for an excuse for failure, and STOP excusing bad behavior like that of M. Thug Brown.
     
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  4. Bush92
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    Bush92 GHBush1992

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    It does favor those that have a college degree over those who do not because white collar jobs have an exposure to more aggressive affirmative action policies. Universities have aggressive policies that get minorities on to the campus, but often they come from sub-standard school districts and cannot finish a BA.
     
  5. Oldstyle
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    Oldstyle Gold Member

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    For decades now well intentioned liberals have patted themselves on the back for the "success" of Affirmative Action but when you really examine what the program has done...what you find is that it really helped blacks that had already ascended the economic ladder because as Joe Biden put it:


    "I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a storybook, man."

    What Biden was saying in his typically idiotic fashion is the underlying truth that most liberals don't want to admit...that Affirmative Action is a boon for "bright and clean" blacks because they are viewed by whites like Biden as safe but doesn't work for street kids that REALLY need help getting a first job.
     
  6. Oldstyle
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    Oldstyle Gold Member

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    So for blacks like Obama, Holder, Rice and Jarrett...Affirmative Action is a GREAT program! For black kids like Michael Brown, Affirmative Action is something that exists for people from a whole different social strata.
     
  7. Bush92
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    Bush92 GHBush1992

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    Again, however, in the case of youth like Brown affirmative action is not the answer. Cleaning up the whole culture of government dependency is. We also need more manufacturing jobs for unskilled labor. Jobs that many low income background youths of all races can perform and lift themselves out of the cycle of government dependency .
     
  8. EverCurious
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    EverCurious Gold Member

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    ^ I agree. However, technology has automated a lot of those jobs with good reason - they do a consistent better job than humans and they are cheaper to operate.

    That said, the only unskilled labor jobs that require 'human' workers I can think of off the top of my head are construction, maybe packing/moving companies. Neither of which, I'd imagine, are as needed in big cities. There's local stores that are going to need clerks and stuff like that, but there you get into job skills; handling cash, running a register, customer service, etc. Janitor maybe? There's just really not a lot of 'unskilled' jobs, period.

    I think we would be better off weaning folks off government dependence and putting that money toward something... like starting up a government run business in the neighborhood; something like a warehouse store; and they 'only' hire people who are on welfare. That way instead of just handing out welfare checks, they have to be earned; it'll give the workers job skills that can get them into a better job, plus incentive folks out of the free money culture/mentality. It wouldn't be a quick fix by any means, but in the long run I think it would help a lot more than the system we have in place right now.

    Another facet of the issue is that crime pays, and I have no idea how we could fix that. Even if we legalized ALL drugs (which I don't see happening) there would still be stealing property and so forth that can ultimately be more profitable than working a bottom tier job would be.
     
  9. Delta4Embassy
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    Delta4Embassy Gold Member

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    Michael Brown only just graduated 'highschool' everyone else is in their 50s or so. Ya, that's roughly equal to draw a conclusion.
     
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  10. Oldstyle
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    Oldstyle Gold Member

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    Governments shouldn't be in the business of business, EverCurious! They invariably do it badly. You want to wean people off of government dependence by giving them a government job? I know that sounds like a fix but in reality you're simply taking away private sector jobs by replacing them with government subsidized jobs. The private sector can't survive against subsidized competition because the public sector doesn't need to make a profit to survive...they can go for years losing money hand over fist. The Post Office is a prime example of that.

    The reason that young black males like Michael Brown have little future is BECAUSE of well intentioned government programs like Affirmative Action. Thomas Sowell pointed out forty years ago that AA would benefit upper class minorities but actually hurt lower class minorities and he was 100% correct in his assessment.

    Why was Barack Obama such a sought after "prize" coming out of Harvard Law School? Quite simply...he was a safe hire. Large corporations (or in his case a law firm) wanted to hire a minority to be compliant with Affirmative Action. They wouldn't hire a Michael Brown to work at an entry level job in their firm because he would be viewed as an "iffy" employee who might or might not work out and if he didn't work out then they would be faced with having to fire a minority and face a wrongful termination lawsuit. As Sowell pointed out, businesses would be more apt to hire whites in those entry level positions because they could be let go with fewer complications if they didn't work out. Why? Because the Federal Government now has so many laws designed to "help" minorities from being discriminated against that they have made unskilled entry level minorities dangerous for employers to hire.
     

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