What religion were our founding fathers worshipping?

[AllieBaba]

no, it doesn't supersede shit, dude. What is not difficult to understand is your total lack of evidence to suggest anything of the sort while trying to pass off your bullshit opinion as fact.

again, typical thumper routine..


i know i know.. WHO CARES what the actual barbary treaties, ratified by congress, stated just like the evidence at Montecello and Jefferson's own statements just don't usurp your opinon and miriam webster!






again, this is why no one in academia gives a rats ass about your bible junkie input.

I'm really curious..how many do you know in "academia"?

You are aware that quite a few academics are "bible junkies" as you so elegantly put it?

 

[Shogun]

I'm really curious..how many do you know in "academia"?

You are aware that quite a few academics are "bible junkies" as you so elegantly put it?

tell it to the biology class, baba. oh wait.. YOU HAVE NO REASON TO THINK anyone cares about your origin theory!

oooops.

 

[AllieBaba]

So you don't know anyone in academia, right? Talking out your butt again?

 

[glockmail]

evidence my ass. See, you can't even offer ANYTHING outside of your own conveluded opinion. No, proving your assertion is NOT a matter of common sense. This is why there is a giant five fingered handprint on your face given the specific quotes I was able to post FROM YOUR OWN FUCKING LINK.




I believe the correct net terminology would be PWNED



and, other founding fathers did you say?


Ben Franklin from his AUTOBIOGRAPHY.

Benjamin Franklin's Autobiography

Before I enter upon my public appearance in business it may be well to let you know the then state of my mind with regard to my principles and morals, that you may see how far those influenced the future events of my life. My parents had early given me religious impressions, and brought me through my childhood piously in the Dissenting way. But I was scarce fifteen, when, after doubting by turns several points as I found them disputed in the different books I read, I began to doubt of the Revelation itself. Some books against Deism fell into my hands; they were said to be the substance of the sermons which had been preached at Boyle’s Lectures. It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them. For the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to be much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist. My arguments perverted some others, particularly Collins and Ralph; but each of these having wronged me greatly without the least compunction, and recollecting Keith’s conduct towards me (who was another freethinker), and my own towards Vernon and Miss Read, which at times gave me great trouble, I began to suspect that this doctrine, though it might be true, was not very useful.








KA-BLAM, thumper!

Lookie here, some quotes from the older, wiser Ben, who grew up past his bout with deism:

"I have lived, sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth -- God Governs in the Affairs of Men, And if a Sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, Is it possible that an empire can rise without His aid?"Benjamin Franklin

"He who shall introduce into public affairs the principles of a primitive Christianity, will change the face of the world"Benjamin Franklin

"Except the Lord build the house, They labor in vain who build it." "I firmly believe this."Benjamin Franklin, 1787, Constitutional Convention

There may be hope for you yet, but I doubt it.

 

[Shogun]

So you don't know anyone in academia, right? Talking out your butt again?

take it to Kansas, baba. I live in a college town. I drink with profs quite a bit.

 

[Shogun]

Lookie here, some quotes from the older, wiser Ben, who grew up past his bout with deism:

"I have lived, sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth -- God Governs in the Affairs of Men, And if a Sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, Is it possible that an empire can rise without His aid?"Benjamin Franklin

"He who shall introduce into public affairs the principles of a primitive Christianity, will change the face of the world"Benjamin Franklin

"Except the Lord build the house, They labor in vain who build it." "I firmly believe this."Benjamin Franklin, 1787, Constitutional Convention

There may be hope for you yet, but I doubt it.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!


yea... go ahead and IGNORE the mans AUTOBIOGRAPHY. I mean, it's ONLY the man's OWN words about his OWN life! Of COURSE you know better than he did about his faith!



Deists believe in a god, thumper.. otherwise, they'd be atheists. However, this doesn't mean that they were anything CLOSE to christians. Your feeble attempts to claim Franklin and Jefferson would be laughable were they not so pathetic.

 

[glockmail]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!


yea... go ahead and IGNORE the mans AUTOBIOGRAPHY. I mean, it's ONLY the man's OWN words about his OWN life! Of COURSE you know better than he did about his faith!



Deists believe in a god, thumper.. otherwise, they'd be atheists. However, this doesn't mean that they were anything CLOSE to christians. Your feeble attempts to claim Franklin and Jefferson would be laughable were they not so pathetic.

You cited something that he wrote as a boy. I quoted his words when he was a Founder.

 

[editec]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!


yea... go ahead and IGNORE the mans AUTOBIOGRAPHY. I mean, it's ONLY the man's OWN words about his OWN life! Of COURSE you know better than he did about his faith!

Ben's famous autobiography was ..er.. how shall I say this without sounding like I'm being harsh?

Well, let's just say he was far from being his own worst critic, and he knew his audience. Ben Franklin knew how to play a crowd, folks.

He's without a doubt my favorite 18th century American.

But the man wasn't above pulling the wool over our eyes if it suited his public image -- an image he knew was an important part of his success.

Deists believe in a god, thumper.. otherwise, they'd be atheists. However, this doesn't mean that they were anything CLOSE to christians. Your feeble attempts to claim Franklin and Jefferson would be laughable were they not so pathetic.

The thing about Franklin and Jefferson was they were so inconstant, that everyone of any political stripe can own part of them.

 

[LOki]

You are referring to Article 11 in the Treaty of Tripoli, that was in a draft that was omitted in the final version.

Nope. The FINAL draft of the 1st Treaty Of Tripoli, was voted upon and passed unanimously--including Article 11.

It wasn't in the second Treaty of Tripoli--a different treaty.

 

[glockmail]

Nope. The FINAL draft of the 1st Treaty Of Tripoli, was voted upon and passed unanimously--including Article 11.

It wasn't in the second Treaty of Tripoli--a different treaty.

The second treaty superseded the first and corrected the obvious known error.

 

[glockmail]

By the way LOki, I'm curious as to the symbolism of your avatar. What is your interpretation of it?

 

[Shogun]

You cited something that he wrote as a boy. I quoted his words when he was a Founder.

you've obviously never read the fucking book. I have. It was written over many periods in his life that BEGAN as an adult.

 

[Shogun]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
yea... go ahead and IGNORE the mans AUTOBIOGRAPHY. I mean, it's ONLY the man's OWN words about his OWN life! Of COURSE you know better than he did about his faith!

Ben's famous autobiography was ..er.. how shall I say this without sounding like I'm being harsh?
Well, let's just say he was far from being his own worst critic, and he knew his audience. Ben Franklin knew how to play a crowd, folks.
He's without a doubt my favorite 18th century American.
But the man wasn't above pulling the wool over our eyes if it suited his public image -- an image he knew was an important part of his success.

The thing about Franklin and Jefferson was they were so inconstant, that everyone of any political stripe can own part of them.

Oh im a big fan too.. Hell, his Silence Dogood would have been the original media troll. But, to assume either he or jefferson were "christian" is a knee slapping joke since both of these men were the product of the age of enlightenment. Hell, from Franklin's scientific resolve to Jefferson's complete cut and paste job of the new testament it's an abysmal excercise in historic masterbation to even REMOTELY suggest that these men were "christian".


Notice which of the debating sides in this little tangent relies on evidence and which relies on thick skulled repeated bullshit as if his opinion means more than facts..

 

[glockmail]

you've obviously never read the fucking book. I have. It was written over many periods in his life that BEGAN as an adult.

Actually I recently read this one: [ame=http://www.amazon.com/First-American-Times-Benjamin-Franklin/dp/0385493282]Amazon.com: The First American: The Life and Times of Benjamin Franklin: H.W. Brands: Books[/ame]

 

[Shogun]

The second treaty superseded the first and corrected the obvious known error.

You are simply mind numbingly wrong. There WAS NOT SECOND TREATY. The BARBARY TREATIES ARE A COLLECTION OF TREATIES WITH INDIVIDUAL STATES including TRIPOLI.

you've been served, sucker.

 

[Shogun]

Actually I recently read this one: Amazon.com: The First American: The Life and Times of Benjamin Franklin: H.W. Brands: Books

I suggest you put the autobiography on your list and forget about how some authors interpretation says more than his own words.

 

[glockmail]

You are simply mind numbingly wrong. There WAS NOT SECOND TREATY. The BARBARY TREATIES ARE A COLLECTION OF TREATIES WITH INDIVIDUAL STATES including TRIPOLI.

you've been served, sucker.

Post 55.

 

[glockmail]

I suggest you put the autobiography on your list and forget about how some authors interpretation says more than his own words.

I quoted Franklin's own words that proved he was a Christian during the critical time in history.

Which Founder will you attempt to wrongly portray next?

 

[Shogun]

Post 55.

post 55 is your conjecture about what YOU think applies with nary the slighest scrap of evidence beyond your goofy opinion. here it is:

The 1806 Ttreaty is between the “President and Citizens of the United States of America, on the one part, and the Bashaw, Bey and Subjects of the Regency of Tripoli in Barbary on the other…”

This supersedes the 1796 Treaty “between the United States of America and the Bey and subjects of Tripoli of Barbary…”

It’s really not that difficult to understand.


post your evidence, dude. or go sit in the corner and think about why you've been given Das Boot.

 

[Shogun]

I quoted Franklin's own words that proved he was a Christian during the critical time in history.

Which Founder will you attempt to wrongly portray next?

no, you really didn't. You posted some surgical cut and paste that you think indicates more than his own autobiographical words do. I mean, hell.. believe what you want. If some jewish zombie in the sky promises you heaven then feel free to believe it. BUT, the fact remains that a man who was a product of the age of ENLIGHTENMENT who says, in his own goddamn autobio, that he was a deist trumps your typical dogma junkie attempt at assimilating everything despite reality.


and, since i've spanked you with both Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin it's not necessary at all to use anyone else. Deny what you will... but Montecello and Ole Ben prove you wrong all day long.