What Really Happened at Last Night's Debate

Discussion in 'Election Forums' started by longknife, Oct 17, 2012.

  1. longknife
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    longknife Platinum Member

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    Here's a compilation of posts about last night's debate.

    First of all, Obama continued to hem and haw and seemed to struggle to find which lie to tell so as to not get caught up in another lie he already said.

    Gov Romney had his ducks in a row. He knew the facts and continually corrected the president's "mis-statements." In spite of Crowley's efforts to slant everything in Obuma's favor, the governor stayed on message and clearly answered the questions posed to him.

    But, don't just listen to me. Here's what others are saying:

    :eusa_whistle::eusa_whistle::eusa_whistle:
     
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  2. longknife
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    longknife Platinum Member

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    Obama Again Fails to Reveal Mitt the Monster

    A Commentary by Gregor Peter Schmitz @ Barack Obama Falls Short in Second Debate with Romney - SPIEGEL ONLINE

    Photo Gallery: The Second TV Battle [​IMG]

    US President Barack Obama's performance in Tuesday's debate was much improved, but he continues to miss the target. Even as his campaign ads attempt to paint challenger Mitt Romney as a cold-hearted capitalist, Obama allowed Romney to present himself as Mr. Average. This opens a door of opportunity for the Republican challenger.
    Info

    On Tuesday evening in America, there were two different Mitt Romneys on display. One Romney stood on the stage at Hofstra University in Hempstead, New York for the televised debate with President Barack Obama, watched by a TV audience of 60 million. The other appeared in campaign spots both before and after the debate, in the endless attack ads that the Obama campaign has been airing for months.

    The president's campaign team believe they have managed to tame the first Romney. Seldom has a sitting US president been so determined going into a campaign debate. After his debacle in the first debate in Denver, an advisor must have mustered the necessary courage to tell the most powerful man in the world that in a live debate, it doesn't hurt to show a little life.

    From the first minute onwards, Obama reproached his rival for being untruthful and deceptive. He blasted the Republican candidate for promising a tax model that can't possibly work. He accused him of criticizing China even as he has been active in the country as a private investor. And he attacked him for trying to attract female voters even as he intends to treat them unfairly on the labor market.

    In short, the president meticulously laid out why he believes that Willard Mitt Romney is an untrustworthy, perhaps even a brazen, politician. Obama made clear that he sees Romney as little more than average. Even conservative Washington Post columnist Charles Krauthammer, speaking to Fox News, said that "on points, Obama came out ahead."

    More @ above link which is a German media outlet, clearly interested in Obuma's socialist outlook.
     
  3. longknife
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    longknife Platinum Member

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    Fact Check: Top Ten Worst Lies of the Second Presidential Debate

    The Second Presidential Debate featured repeated claims by each candidate that the other was not telling the truth--as well as at least one claim of fact by the moderator that turned out to be false. There were even questionable claims by the audience itself. Here are the top ten worst lies told during the Second Debate:

    10. "I told you I would cut taxes for middle-class families, and I did. I told you I’d cut taxes for small businesses, and I have." President Barack Obama has made this claim repeatedly during the campaign, but it is not true, as even the liberal Huffington Post acknowledges. The few tax cuts that Obama did enact--such as the temporary payroll tax holiday--were short-term, or conditional. Furthermore, as the Romney campaign has often pointed out, Obama has raised many taxes on the middle class, including the infamous Obamacare "penalty," and his taxes on "millionaires and billionaires" would hit small businesses.

    9. "...[H]e was asked, is it fair for somebody like you, making $20 million a year, to pay a lower tax rate than a nurse or a bus driver....And he said, yes, I think that’s fair." Obama was referring to Romney's recent 60 Minutes interview. But the transcript reveals Obama was not telling the truth. Romney was not saying it was fair that higher income should be taxed at a lower rate. He was referring specifically to the principle that capital gains should be taxed lower than other income because it has been taxed once already--a principle, incidentally, that Obama agrees with in his own tax policy.

    8. "He called the Arizona law a model for the nation." Obama tried to knock Romney's immigration policy while at the same time accusing him of flip-flopping on the issue. But as Romney pointed out, he was referring specifically to the e-Verify part of the law--the requirement of instant verification of workers' legal status. That provision is even favored by unions. Obama made it seem Romney praised the law as a whole--which he had not. He went on to say that he himself objected to the provision that allowed police to check suspected illegal immigrants' documentation--but that provision survived a challenge at the Supreme Court.

    7. "I want to make sure our timekeepers are working here." For the third debate in a row, the Democratic candidate complained that he is not receiving as much time to speak as the Republican. And for the third debate in a row, the Obama/Biden ticket actually spoke for longer--much longer--than the Romney/Ryan ticket, a testament to the ability of the incumbents to pressure the moderators, and the susceptibility of the left-leaning moderators to such pressure. Obama received a full three minutes more time in last night's debate--and the percentage difference was even higher at one point in the proceedings.

    6. "They rely on it for mammograms." Obama attacked Romney's proposal to cut off federal funding to Planned Parenthood by claiming that the organization provides mammograms to women to help prevent breast cancer. It's been a repeated claim made by the left for months. The problem is that it's just untrue--and even left-leaning mainstream media fact-checkers have acknowledged that. What is perhaps worse than Obama's misleading claim about mammograms is the unsupported implication that Romney wants to deny life-saving health care to women--a cheap shot to which Romney was given a real chance to respond.

    5. "You can ship jobs overseas and get tax breaks for it." We have heard the same lie for eight years from Obama. In 2004, he ran for U.S. Senate from Illinois on a promise to end such tax breaks. He did it again when he ran for President of the United States in 2008. And yet he has never done anything about it--because there are no such tax breaks. There is merely a deduction that companies can take for moving, even within the U.S.--and which helps offset the double taxation of U.S. businesses abroad, which would make American companies less competitive. Repealing it would ship jobs overseas, actually.

    4. "And the production is up....What you’re saying is just not true." Obama contested a claim by Romney that production of oil and gas is down on federal lands. He even accused Romney of not telling the truth. But Romney was right--exactly right, down to the percentage decline. Furthermore, Obama's claim that he has been increasing oil and gas production on federal lands flies in the face of recent policy decisions, such as closing off a large part of the National Petroleum Reserve-Alaska to further development. Obama has tried to take credit for expansion on private lands, while opposing expansion wherever possible.

    3. "In what new ways do you intend to rectify the inequalities in the workplace, specifically regarding females making only 72 percent of what their male counterparts earn?" The false premise from a member of the audience was especially egregious because her question had been selected in advance by the moderator. The supposed wage gap between men and women for the same work is largely a myth. As Diana Furchtgott-Roth pointed out: "Women make about 95 percent of what their male counterparts earn, if the male counterparts are in the same job with the same experience."

    2. "He wanted to take them into bankruptcy without providing them any way to stay open." After Obama accused Romney of wanting American auto manufacturers to go bankrupt, Romney pointed out that Obama had, in fact, taken the auto companies through bankruptcy. Obama's retort was to accuse Romney of wanting to take the companies bankrupt in order to put them out of business--a blatant lie. Romney actually suggested in his famous 2008 op-ed: "In a managed bankruptcy, the federal government would propel newly competitive and viable automakers, rather than seal their fate with a bailout check."

    1. "He did call it an act of terror." The worst untruth told by a moderator in presidential history. Candy Crowley's intervention in favor of Obama caused the president's cheering section to burst into applause, in violation of the rules, and there was little that Romney could say in response. But she was wrong--Obama's reference to "acts of terror" in his Sep. 12 statement was in a general, abstract sense, and came long after he had described the 9/11 attacks on U.S. diplomatic missions as demonstrations against an anti-Islamic video. Even Crowley seemed to realize what she had done: it wasn't long before she walked back her own comment.
     
  4. TNHarley
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    TNHarley Gold Member

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    Lie lie lie. Thats all our POTUS does. Well, and povertize the nation
     
  5. longknife
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    longknife Platinum Member

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    Obama Misleadingly Claims Gov't Got Back 'Every Dime' of Bailouts

    Last Thursday President Obama claimed before a large audience that the government had recovered "every dime" of the financial bailout. But according to a CBO report issued this month, Obama is off by at least $24 billion and as much as $63 billion dollars, depending on which government figures are used.

    Speaking in Miami Obama told the crowd "We got back every dime we used to rescue the financial system, but we also passed a historic law to end taxpayer-funded Wall Street bailouts for good." This is a reference to TARP, the Troubled Asset Relief Program, which was used to bail out banks and the auto manufacturers.

    The same day Obama made this claim the Congressional Budget Office issued a new report which shows that taxpayers have not, in fact, received back all of the money they put in to rescue failing institutions. The program as a whole has disbursed $417 billion dollars. Of that amount, CBO estimates the subsidy cost of the program (losses offset with gains in some areas) will be $24 billion dollars.

    The same CBO report notes that the Office of Management and Budget has a much higher estimate for the subsidy cost off the program, $63 billion. The difference in the two estimates has to do with the anticipated number of people who will take advantage of TARP funded mortgage assistance.

    There is one possible caveat to Obama's claim. Obama's comments could be read not as a reference to TARP as a whole but as to one section of the program, i.e. TARP money invested in "the financial system." If the money put into AIG and banks, i.e. Bank of America, Citigroup, etc. is considered separately from money given to automakers, mortgage programs and so-called "investment partnerships" then the government is indeed in the black. Excluding these other TARP investments from the picture, TARP has actually earned $11 billion on its investment (though again these gains are more than offset by losses elsewhere in TARP).

    Obama is either making a narrow and misleading statement about TARP's cost by cherry picking one segment of it, or he is making a completely false claim about the whole program. Either way his audience is not getting a real picture of the government's return on investment.
     
  6. longknife
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    'Independent' Audience Asks Twice As Many Anti-Romney Questions

    Candy Crowley’s disgraceful performance tonight masked her true failure: her failure to pick questions outside the Daily Kos mailbag. Here’s the full list of questions she pre-screened from members of the “independent” audience. They got more and more egregious as the evening progressed.

    QUESTION: Mr. President, Governor Romney, as a 20-year-old college student, all I hear from professors, neighbors and others is that when I graduate, I will have little chance to get employment. What can you say to reassure me, but more importantly my parents, that I will be able to sufficiently support myself after I graduate? Romney answered this one easily, but the question itself was framed from a leftist point of view. It is no president’s job to guarantee anyone employment after they graduate. All a president can do is create the conditions for economic growth, which provides jobs. Score this one as a neutral question.

    QUESTION: Your energy secretary, Steven Chu, has now been on record three times stating it’s not policy of his department to help lower gas prices. Do you agree with Secretary Chu that this is not the job of the Energy Department? This question was directed to President Obama, and it was clearly an anti-Obama question. This led to an exchange in which Obama ended up claiming that low gas prices lead to economic recessions.

    QUESTION: Governor Romney, you have stated that if you’re elected president, you would plan to reduce the tax rates for all the tax brackets and that you would work with the Congress to eliminate some deductions in order to make up for the loss in revenue. Concerning the — these various deductions, the mortgage deductions, the charitable deductions, the child tax credit and also the — oh, what’s that other credit? I forgot.

    OBAMA: You’re doing great.

    QUESTION: Oh, I remember. The education credits, which are important to me, because I have children in college. What would be your position on those things, which are important to the middle class? This question was so great for Obama that he decided to help the questioner along with it. She was trying to get Romney to talk about how he was going to hurt middle income people by getting rid of deductions for them. Romney answered it beautifully, and took the bat out of her hands.

    QUESTION: In what new ways to you intend to rectify the inequalities in the workplace, specifically regarding females making only 72 percent of what their male counterparts earn? It was at this point that the questions began coming completely off the rails – about 40 minutes into the debate. From here on in, nearly every question was based on false liberal premises, like the nonsense that women are paid less than their male counterparts, which has been debunked repeatedly. Crowley allowed this question specifically to help Obama recover female votes.

    QUESTION: Governor Romney, I am an undecided voter, because I’m disappointed with the lack of progress I’ve seen in the last four years. However, I do attribute much of America’s economic and international problems to the failings and missteps of the Bush administration. Since both you and President Bush are Republicans, I fear a return to the policies of those years should you win this election. What is the biggest difference between you and George W. Bush, and how do you differentiate yourself from George W. Bush? This question was clearly submitted by David Axelrod. It’s absurd. Why not ask Barack Obama how his policies differ from those of Jimmy Carter?

    QUESTION: Mr. President, I voted for you in 2008. What have you done or accomplished to earn my vote in 2012? I’m not that optimistic as I was in 2012. Most things I need for everyday living are very expensive. It’s tough to score this one an anti-Obama question, since it’s the most obvious question of this campaign. But it clearly didn’t help Obama, so we’ll score it that way.

    QUESTION: Mr. Romney, what do you plan on doing with immigrants without their green cards that are currently living here as productive members of society? This question was geared by Crowley to help President Obama among Hispanics, despite his utter lack of a record on immigration. There is no way that Crowley would have approved a question for President Obama on his failure to enforce the border or to comply with the law.

    QUESTION: We were sitting around, talking about Libya, and we were reading and became aware of reports that the State Department refused extra security for our embassy in Benghazi, Libya, prior to the attacks that killed four Americans. Who was it that denied enhanced security and why? This question was obviously anti-Obama. Sadly, Crowley had no interest in getting an answer from the President on it. In fact, when Romney called Obama on his Libya cover-up, she jumped in to save him with a false fact-check she later walked back.

    QUESTION: President Obama, during the Democratic National Convention in 2008, you stated you wanted to keep AK-47s out of the hands of criminals. What has your administration done or planned to do to limit the availability of assault weapons? Precisely nobody outside the far left cares about this question. Nobody.

    QUESTION: The outsourcing of American jobs overseas has taken a toll on our economy. What plans do you have to put back and keep jobs here in the United States? Clearly a set-up for Obama to hit Romney about his supposed penchant for outsourcing.

    QUESTION: Hi, Governor. I think this is a tough question. To each of you. What do you believe is the biggest misperception that the American people have about you as a man and a candidate? Using specific examples, can you take this opportunity to debunk that misperception and set us straight? This is a straightforward, non-partisan question.

    So here’s the final tally. There were 11 total questions. Six of them were clearly and obviously anti-Romney. Three were anti-Obama. Two were relatively neutral (and one of those leaned toward Obama). The questions that were anti-Obama were also the two most obvious questions of the evening: why are gas prices high? And what have you done to earn re-election? The questions against Romney were the height of absurdity, ranging from gender gap nonsense to gun control to outsourcing.

    Something else worth noting: Romney actually answered the questions he was asked. Barack Obama didn’t.

    From 'Independent' Audience Asks Twice As Many Anti-Romney Questions

    Did anyone NOT expect this?
     
  7. longknife
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    Post-Debate CNN Poll: Romney Buries Obama On Economy

    Like the CBS poll, Obama won the overall debate, 46-39%, but Romney beat him senseless on all the important individual issues like the economy, health care, deficit, and taxes.

    Unlike the CBS poll, CNN polled registered voters, not just undecideds.

    Economy: Romney wins 58-40%

    Health care: Romney wins 49-46%.

    Taxes: Romney wins 51-44%.

    Deficit: Romney wins 49-36%.

    Strong leader: Romney wins 49-46%.

    The worst news is that 25% of voters switched their vote to Romney and 25% wen to Obama.

    In other words, Obama didn't move the ball, which is what he needed to do.
     
  8. longknife
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    longknife Platinum Member

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    Presidential Debate: "You're a Liar". . . "No, You're a Liar" . . . "No, You're Lying"
    by Douglas V. Gibbs

    The winner of tonight's debate is the person you believe was less a liar. The two presidential candidates faced off in this style of debate, a townhall where the questions came from voters. Both did some interrupting, but Obama interrupted more, and at the worst possible moments.

    Interestingly, Obama also contradicted himself often.

    One example:

    When Romney pointed out gas prices were lower than two dollars a gallon when Obama took office, and now they are over $4.00 per gallon, President Barry said that gas prices were low at that time "because the economy was on the verge of collapse."

    The contradiction was glaring, because if you will remember, the democrats were not saying in 2009 that we were on the verge of collapse, but that we were in the middle of the worse recession since the great depression. According to the democrats, the recovery began in June of 2009. So, was that collapse only a couple months long, Mr. Obama?

    Based on that, I think it is easy to pinpoint who the liar in the debate was.

    -- Political Pistachio Conservative News and Commentary

    Obama: Gas Prices Low 'Because the Economy Was on the Verge of Collapse' - Weekly Standard @ Obama: Gas Prices Low 'Because the Economy Was on the Verge of Collapse' | The Weekly Standard

    Chart Book: The Legacy of the Great Recession - Center on Budget and Policy Priorities @ Chart Book: The Legacy of the Great Recession — Center on Budget and Policy Priorities
     
  9. longknife
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    longknife Platinum Member

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    “Acts of Terror” is to Obama what “is” was to Clinton

    by William A. Jacobson @ » “Acts of Terror” is to Obama what “is” was to Clinton - Le·gal In·sur·rec·tion

    My initial impressions of the Town Hall debate were reflected in my guest post at USA Today, Obama needed debate blowout but didn’t get it:

    The question as far as the election goes is who drove the narrative which matters. While Obama landed many class envy and “war on women” punches, Obama barely attempted to defend a brutal exposition by Romney on four years of broken promises and failed economic results. It was the issue people care about, and it was Romney’s strongest part of the debate by far ….

    While Obama supporters will be heartened, Obama needed to convince people that the next four years will be more successful than the past four years. He didn’t even try to make the case.

    The failure to defend his record and to explain why the next four years will be better was Obama’s greatest failure at the second debate. It was a failure which could not be overcome even by effective attacks on Romney.

    My reflections the next morning are pretty much the same. The instant polling seems to bear out that Obama “won” by a narrow margin on performance, Romney won big on the economy.

    Trying to synthesized it all, consider the debate a call to action. Anyone who wants Obama defeated should disabuse themselves of the notion that Romney’s trajectory is unstoppable.

    Obama will say or do anything to win. The best example is Libya, where Obama is trying desperately to turn the narrative from his administrations obviously false statements that the killing of our Ambassador was the result of a spontaneous protest over a video. It has been extremely well documented that the administration was making this claim for days after it knew better.

    Yet what does Obama do? His team reminds him that he mentioned the words “act of terror” in a Rose Garden speech the day after the killing, even as his administration was in full denial mode.

    The words were not used to say that the attack was preplanned or to dispute his administration line about the movie.

    What did Obama say in the Rose Garden a day after the attack in Libya? ”No acts of terror will ever shake the resolve of this nation,” he said.

    But he did not say “terrorism”—and it took the administration days to concede that that it an “act of terrorism” that appears unrelated to initial reports of anger at a video that defamed the prophet Muhammad.

    Instead, Obama was talking generally about “acts of terror“(plural) and our national purpose:

    As Americans let us never, ever forget that our freedom is only sustained because there are people who are willing to fight for it, to stand up for it, and in some cases lay down their lives for it. Our country is only as strong as the character of our people and the service of those, both civilian and military, who represent us around the globe.

    No acts of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation, alter that character or eclipse the light of the values that we stand for.

    That false line of defense continued for a week.

    In what certainly was one of the worst moves by a debate moderator ever, Candy Crowley did an instant ‘fact check” and sided with Obama, but she was wrong and now is backtracking.

    Look where Obama has taken us:

    Obama’s abject and offensive failure of leadership and political gamesmanship now is just a word game. A term thrown into a several minute long speech is being used to defend against a mountain of evidence that Obama and his administration misled the public for political purposes.

    Obama knows that by using the phrase “acts of terror” in the Rose Garden the day after the killing he was not contradicting his administration’s line that it was a spontaneous reaction to a movie. Yet Obama stood up last night and made that claim anyway.

    Let this be a wake up call, and a call to action. We are up against, to steal a phrase, “an unusually good liar.”

    Take nothing for granted. Work even harder to defeat Obama.
     
  10. auditor0007
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    There are times when partisanship serves no purpose. This is one of those times. Obama won the debate hands down. The only question is whether or not it will translate into votes and move the election back in his favor or if things will remain as they are now, extremely close.
     

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