What Our Military Commanders Are Saying

[ScreamingEagle]

August 14, 2007
Testing Congress: General Ignorance
By Michael J. O'Shea

That Congress spurns the 9/11 Commission should be no surprise: it approves every general sent to them then snubs them, too.

This may be why:

"I don't know of any organization that's going to be successful when the leaders, when it gets too hot, they're the first ones that leap. It doesn't speak too well of an organization."

Brigadier General John Bednarek referred to Al Qaeda; his words are just as apt for Congress. From Truman's "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen" to Congress of today, where a microwave is too warm.

And Brigadier General Kevin Bergner is too blunt:

"Al-Qaeda-Iraq is run by foreigners, not Iraqis"
"...they are without question the main threat to the government of Iraq and to the stability of Iraq because of the role that they play in accelerating and fueling sectarian violence."

Congress will "support our troops": it just won't listen to them. How many Congressmen even know the names - much less the records - of commanders such as Major General Walter Gaskins?

"We owe the lion's share of the progress we've experienced to the hard work, dedication, and in some cases, bravery of the Iraqi forces."
"Most armies train and go to war; what we are asking of the Iraqi forces is to train while they're at war."
"I have more volunteers, more recruits than we have the capacity to train."

How many know Brigadier General John Bednarek's grit?

"...they will not find safe haven in this country.... It is tough, demanding, arduous, dangerous -- pick an acronym, pick an adjective, that's what you're seeing out there against a very tough, demanding, adaptive enemy, but the enemy's not 10-feet tall."

They promoted General David Petraeus but pooh-pooh his findings:

"Our job is not to put lipstick on pigs, or to spin. Our job is, again, to try to convey to the American public, and then the public of all the coalitions, and those who follow the media throughout the world, as accurate a picture as we can of what is going on here."
"On a nightly basis here... ten or twelve serious operations are going down by those forces.....And any one of those is far more significant than we conducted for decades. They are very sophisticated, very complex, very lethal sometimes, and very effective."
"a precipitous withdrawal would have potentially serious implications for important interests that we have in Iraq, in the region."

Commanders state it starkly: defeating Al Qaeda there in Iraq is critical to US security. Yet Congress prefers columnists to commanders, think tanks to Joint Chiefs.

So it ignores Major General Rick Lynch:

"...we face Iraq's public enemy number one: al Qaeda and al Qaeda-affiliated Sunni extremists."
"I worry about our families back home. I worry about their morale. We work very hard to tell them the good and the bad; what's happening that's good and where are we struggling so they have an informed opinion. But if all they see is acts of violence, all they see is bombs exploding on TV and the newspapers, then it affects their morale"

Major General Benjamin Mixon:

"what is going on here in Iraq is vitally important to our nation's security and security within the region."
"we can't take the short-term approach. We must take a long-term vision here. Our soldiers understand that. They're proud of what they're doing."

Major Genenral Joseph Fil:

"I see progress, a steady progress, in every neighborhood that we've cleared and then established a full-time presence."
"This is a skilled and determined enemy. He's ruthless. He's got a thirst for blood like I've never seen anywhere in my life, and he's determined to do whatever he can."
"Iraq is still in its infancy. Its early challenges are not unlike those that we experienced"

Brigadier General John Bednarek:

"The Iraqi army soldiers are good. They're holding firm. They are in the fight."
"...no, al Qaeda is not the only enemy. But let me be clear. They are the number-one enemy."

Brigadier Genenral Dana Pittard:

"...it's not that difficult to recruit young soldiers, young jundis or soldiers, as they're called, or young police officers. It doesn't take too long to train young lieutenants, but it takes much longer to train seasoned non-commissioned officers and majors, lieutenant colonels and brigadier generals."
"...we have a stake in this. We have a stake in supporting the Iraqi people as well as the American people in ensuring that Iraq becomes a stable nation that is not an area where terrorism can fester"

Brigadier General Kevin Bergner:

"Iraqi forces are very much in the fight. They are increasingly the first line of defense while taking casualties at rates of two to three times that of the coalition, and they are not deterred in their mission."
"... the progress of the Iraqi people is our progress."

Brigadier General Perry Wiggins:

"...the enemy has, back since 9/11, has been trying to destroy the freedoms here in this country as well as in Europe. That has never stopped being an aim."

Major General Rick Lynch:

"...al Qaeda has worn out its welcome. They've overplayed their hand."
"...those division commanders are competent, capable military professionals who are Iraqis. They're not Shi'a; they're not Sunni. They're Iraqis, and their enemy is anybody that's against Iraq."
"...the enemy only responds to force and we now have that force"
"If those surge forces go away, that capability goes away, and the Iraqi security forces aren't ready yet to do that..... It would be a mess."
"...every day when I'm out and about wearing 60 pounds of body armor in 111 degree temperature, I re-enlist soldiers, and they raise their right hand and say, ‘I'll support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic'."

Brigadier General Kevin Bergner:

"...al Qaeda leaders have declared Iraq their central front.... Their goal continues to be a Taliban-like state"
"Al Qaeda senior leadership does provide direction to al Qaeda in Iraq. They do establish focus. They do establish and provide resourcing and support the network."

Lieutenant General Ray Odierno:

"...the Iraqi people are clearly rejecting al Qaeda and assisting coalition forces and Iraqi force in liberating their towns and villages"
"Iraqis can be proud of their army and their police, but there's still some ways to go, and we all know that."
"I can think of no major population center in Iraq that is in an al Qaeda safe haven today."
"...they would like us to fail here, so they can use Iraq as that base. That, in my mind, is the threat to us in the future, and that's what I see the biggest threat out of al Qaeda in Iraq."

General James Cartwright:

"We are demonstrating success in Baghdad today."
"We have provided the commanders on the ground additional resources and we should provide them the time they need to apply those resources to create the stability and security needed for political progress."

If we can't succeed with hundreds of thousands of Iraqis to rid Iraq of terrorists, how can we hope it won't become a terrorist haven? If we can't team with troops from Islam to defeat terrorists from Islam, how can we hope to destroy Al Qaeda? If we can't win in Iraq, where can we?

Tom Brokaw said troops in Iraq may be the new greatest generation.

That's news to Congress. Or would be if it had ears to hear.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/08/testing_congress_general_ignor.html

 

[dilloduck]

August 14, 2007
Testing Congress: General Ignorance
By Michael J. O'Shea

That Congress spurns the 9/11 Commission should be no surprise: it approves every general sent to them then snubs them, too.

This may be why:
Brigadier General John Bednarek referred to Al Qaeda; his words are just as apt for Congress. From Truman's "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen" to Congress of today, where a microwave is too warm.

And Brigadier General Kevin Bergner is too blunt:


Congress will "support our troops": it just won't listen to them. How many Congressmen even know the names - much less the records - of commanders such as Major General Walter Gaskins?

How many know Brigadier General John Bednarek's grit?

They promoted General David Petraeus but pooh-pooh his findings:
Commanders state it starkly: defeating Al Qaeda there in Iraq is critical to US security. Yet Congress prefers columnists to commanders, think tanks to Joint Chiefs.[/COLOR]

So it ignores Major General Rick Lynch:

Major General Benjamin Mixon:

Major Genenral Joseph Fil:

Brigadier General John Bednarek:

Brigadier Genenral Dana Pittard:

Brigadier General Kevin Bergner:
Brigadier General Perry Wiggins:

Major General Rick Lynch:

Brigadier General Kevin Bergner:

Lieutenant General Ray Odierno:

General James Cartwright:


If we can't succeed with hundreds of thousands of Iraqis to rid Iraq of terrorists, how can we hope it won't become a terrorist haven? If we can't team with troops from Islam to defeat terrorists from Islam, how can we hope to destroy Al Qaeda? If we can't win in Iraq, where can we?

Tom Brokaw said troops in Iraq may be the new greatest generation.

That's news to Congress. Or would be if it had ears to hear.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/08/testing_congress_general_ignor.html

They are all liars--just ask Ruby. She can show you a website that is run by Iraqis who can give you the REAL scoop.

 

[Ruby]

They are all liars--just ask Ruby. She can show you a website that is run by Iraqis who can give you the REAL scoop.

Yea we know how much Iraqis telling of their own experiences scare you. Its always better if we can filter that info through our own corporate news and politicians...Iraqis shouldnt be able to give FIRST HAND accounts of their own stories and thoughts.

 

[dilloduck]

Yea we know how much Iraqis telling of their own experiences scare you. Its always better if we can filter that info through our own corporate news and politicians...Iraqis shouldnt be able to give FIRST HAND accounts of their own stories and thoughts.

Oh ya--shaking in my boots. When these 2 bit "journalists" who cruise around begging for money have a story that they claim comes from a real live person I just shit in my pants------

 

[Ruby]

Oh ya--shaking in my boots. When these 2 bit "journalists" who cruise around begging for money have a story that they claim comes from a real live person I just shit in my pants------

You arent good at hiding your fear. Appearantly Iraqis looking into a camera to tell their stories really bugs the hell out of you. Those 2 bit journalists are just Iraqi citizens who live there and have the access to go into the Iraqi streets to talk to people and put them on camera and give them a chance to tell their story.

Its pretty funny how much that freaks you out and bothers you!

 

[Gunny]

Yea we know how much Iraqis telling of their own experiences scare you. Its always better if we can filter that info through our own corporate news and politicians...Iraqis shouldnt be able to give FIRST HAND accounts of their own stories and thoughts.

Which of course is MUCH worse that listening to the propaganda from hand-picked American-hating Iraqis.

 

[Gunny]

You arent good at hiding your fear. Appearantly Iraqis looking into a camera to tell their stories really bugs the hell out of you. Those 2 bit journalists are just Iraqi citizens who live there and have the access to go into the Iraqi streets to talk to people and put them on camera and give them a chance to tell their story.

Its pretty funny how much that freaks you out and bothers you!

What bugs the hell out of me are people who hate their own Nation enough to push the lies and propaganda of foreign nations.

Feel free to to move to the one of your choosing any time now.

 

[dilloduck]

You arent good at hiding your fear. Appearantly Iraqis looking into a camera to tell their stories really bugs the hell out of you. Those 2 bit journalists are just Iraqi citizens who live there and have the access to go into the Iraqi streets to talk to people and put them on camera and give them a chance to tell their story.

Its pretty funny how much that freaks you out and bothers you!

Alive in Baghdad was formed to counter the sound-bite driven, “Live From” news model. Through the work of a team of Americans and Iraqi correspondents on the ground, Alive in Baghdad shows the occupation through the voices of Iraqis. Alive in Baghdad brings testimonies from individual Iraqis, footage of daily life in Iraq, and short news segments from Iraq to you.

Bullshit---they are NOT just Iraqi citizens involved. You are a good example of why I don't take everything I hear as a truth of somekind.
http://aliveinbaghdad.org/about/

I like how they travel the world in their spare time and cover Mexico too! LMAO.

http://www.aliveinmexico.org/

 

[RetiredGySgt]

They are all liars--just ask Ruby. She can show you a website that is run by Iraqis who can give you the REAL scoop.

You two haven't been paying attention. Those generals are all hand picked stooges of Bush. Ask any of the liberals on this board and listen to them explain how Bush has personally appointed every General in Iraq and fired every one that hasn't said exactly what he wanted to hear.

 

[dilloduck]

You two haven't been paying attention. Those generals are all hand picked stooges of Bush. Ask any of the liberals on this board and listen to them explain how Bush has personally appointed every General in Iraq and fired every one that hasn't said exactly what he wanted to hear.

Well hell I know that---that's why I recommend Rubys' site. You can get all the straight poop from "real" Iraqis. They can tell ya all about Mexico too if your interested.

 

[Annie]

Yea we know how much Iraqis telling of their own experiences scare you. Its always better if we can filter that info through our own corporate news and politicians...Iraqis shouldnt be able to give FIRST HAND accounts of their own stories and thoughts.

Well before you were here, I posted mucho links to Iraqi sites, they weren't one sided though, a concept you seem unfamiliar with.

 

[Annie]

Here's another 'first person' account, I wonder if Ruby will bother with?

http://tank.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NDA0ZWI1NDVlZDRlMjAzOWE1MDNjMmUyNGJlNjg0NGU=

Tuesday, August 14, 2007

Why Soldiers Cry [W. Thomas Smith Jr.]

AL MANSOUR (Baghdad) — U.S. forces have launched a new offensive north of Baghdad in an attempt to crush insurgents who have recently fled Baqouba. A major bridge was attacked on the outskirts of the city (several killed). And some roundup raids, which I cannot get into, may be stepping off in the city center as we speak.

Most of this morning and afternoon, my team — part of the U.S. 1st Cavalry Division — has been running a series of foot and mounted combat patrols in Baghdad's Al Mansour district. Fortunately, no direct contact: But there were two IED attacks followed by small-arms fire against Iraqi Army (IA) forces a few blocks west of us in an adjacent sector of the neighborhood. We heard the explosions and gunfire while we were on foot, saddled up in our Humvees, and began moving toward the action until another — closer — unit responded. Continuing our patrols, we stopped at four IA outposts, including one joint American-Iraqi outpost and another where the Iraqis were hit by sniper fire last night.

Along the op route, we stopped by the house of a poor Iraqi family with at least seven small kids — beautiful, smiling children (girls and boys, none more than 10-years-old) all wanting to hold my hand, and wear my sunglasses and helmet. Of course, I let them. One of them — a smiling boy of about eight— was sitting on the floor, naked, his lower body partially covered by a sheet. At first I noticed his little hand when he reached up for mine: His left index finger was gone and the dirty remaining nub was somewhat ragged looking. Flies were buzzing around it. But the boy was smiling and his eyes as bright as if he had just run into the house from some nearby playground. But there is no playground for this child: Not now, anyway.

Weeks ago, the boy was with his mother, shopping for bread in an open-air market, when an IED exploded. In a instant, shrapnel ripped through both of his legs and his stomach. His index finger was blown off, and part of his genitals were torn away. His right femur was completely broken near the hip. And his entire right leg from his foot to his hip was badly (third degree) burned.

Our soldiers discovered him — sick with infection — while they were patrolling the neighborhood, got him to one of our doctors, and have been following up and taking care of him since.

Today, the mother — a tired-looking woman dressed in an all black abaya and headscarf — pulled back the sheet to show me the severity of her son's wounds. He's healing now, but there are still open wounds, and his entire right leg is black (only because the skin is dead). One of the Army's medical corpsmen assured me he would heal. But the bones — currently held together with metal rods — need to fuse together. The boy will probably walk again: I pray he will. His mother — afraid he won't heal — asked for reassurance from our corpsman through our Iraqi interpreter.

None of us could understand what she was saying, but I knew exactly what she was trying to convey. She was crying, holding her fingers up to her quivering lips. Her eyes searching mine and others for the truth. The corpsman, trying to reassure her, was also tearing up. I had to walk outside so no one would see my own tears. I couldn't help it. Then two of the little girls came up to me and took my hand. They were looking up and me and smiling. This may all sound mawkishly sweet, but I don't care. This is what happened today. This is reality on the ground in an impoverished and dangerous area of Baghdad, where the "mujh" still operates. This is where 70 percent of the houses and buildings are unoccupied (providing the terrorists a network of safe houses and sniper positions from which they can — and do — operate). This is where bound, blindfolded, and summarily executed bodies are still turning up. This is where IEDs and small arms are still killing and wounding Americans. This is where Iraqi children live, try to play, and have been deliberately targeted by terrorists.

When we left the house, a captain told me that all the soldiers wept when they saw the torn and burned boy for the first time. Today, they were all smiles and playing around with the other children because they know the little boy is healing.

On the road to FOB Prosperity, another coalition unit — a few blocks south of us — was attacked by enemy small arms fire. No word on casualties.

 

[Ruby]

Well before you were here, I posted mucho links to Iraqi sites, they weren't one sided though, a concept you seem unfamiliar with.

Whats so one-sided about "alive in Iraq"? Are they not people telling their stories?

BTW, a soldiers first hand account..I am willing to take it on as truth but I would say that a soldier who is being PAID by the military and has restrictions on his freedom and his freedom of speech are not more credible and possibly less credible than an average Iraqi citizen.

Its funny how much we want to "help" the Iraqis but listening to Iraqis who arent being filtered through US military or US corporate media are met with some very serious hostility. My guess is that is because deep down the war supporters KNOW that all the garbage they have been fed isnt true but as long as that truth can be hidden its all good.....if that truth is revealed then they have to confront that they have supported very ugly things...things we would never want done to us.

BTW, your site has a section where it asks for donations....dilloduck has major problems with that....does that mean your story is bogus and the site itself is bogus?

 

[Ruby]

Well hell I know that---that's why I recommend Rubys' site. You can get all the straight poop from "real" Iraqis. They can tell ya all about Mexico too if your interested.

You make it more than obvious you didnt actually see one of the stories, THAT is how much it scares you!

 

[eots]

Wayne Madsen

Wayne Madsen – Former U.S. Navy Intelligence Officer, specialist in electronic surveillance and security. Formerly assigned to the National Security Agency and the State Department. Currently, investigative journalist, nationally distributed columnist, and author. Senior Fellow, Electronic Privacy Information Center (EPIC), a non-partisan privacy public advocacy group in Washington, DC. Frequent media commentator on terrorism and security matters. Author of Genocide and Covert Operations in Africa 1993-1999 (1999), co-author of America's Nightmare: The Presidency of George Bush II (2006), Jaded Tasks: Big Oil, Black Ops & Brass Plates (2006), The Handbook of Personal Data Protection (1992).

Speech 11/11/06 : "After five years of talking to many individuals in the intelligence community, in the military, foreign intelligence agencies, and a whole host of other people, people from the air traffic control community, the FAA, I came to the conclusion that after five years what we saw happen on that morning of September 11, 2001, was the result of a highly-compartmentalized covert operation to bring about a fascist coup in this country. ...

These people need to be brought to justice, if not by our own Congress, then by an international tribunal in the Hague, in the Netherlands. Bush, Blair, Rumsfeld, Cheney should be sitting in the same dockets where Milosevic and the Croatia-Serbia war criminals sat." http://video.google.com

Capt. Daniel Davis, U.S. Army – Former U.S. Army Air Defense Officer and NORAD Tac Director. Decorated with the Bronze Star and the Soldiers Medal for bravery under fire and the Purple Heart for injuries sustained in Viet Nam. Also served in the Army Air Defense Command as Nike Missile Battery Control Officer for the Chicago-Milwaukee Defense Area. Founder and former CEO of Turbine Technology Services Corp., a turbine (jet engine) services and maintenance company (15 years). Former Senior Manager at General Electric Turbine (jet) Engine Division (15 years). Private pilot.

Statement to this website 3/23/07: "As a former General Electric Turbine engineering specialist and manager and then CEO of a turbine engineering company, I can guarantee that none of the high tech, high temperature alloy engines on any of the four planes that crashed on 9/11 would be completely destroyed, burned, shattered or melted in any crash or fire. Wrecked, yes, but not destroyed. Where are all of those engines, particularly at the Pentagon? If jet powered aircraft crashed on 9/11, those engines, plus wings and tail assembly, would be there.

Additionally, in my experience as an officer in NORAD as a Tactical Director for the Chicago-Milwaukee Air Defense and as a current private pilot, there is no way that an aircraft on instrument flight plans (all commercial flights are IFR) would not be intercepted when they deviate from their flight plan, turn off their transponders, or stop communication with Air Traffic Control. No way! With very bad luck, perhaps one could slip by, but no there's no way all four of them could!

Finally, going over the hill and highway and crashing into the Pentagon right at the wall/ground interface is nearly impossible for even a small slow single engine airplane and no way for a 757. Maybe the best pilot in the world could accomplish that but not these unskilled "terrorists".

Attempts to obscure facts by calling them a "Conspiracy Theory" does not change the truth. It seems, "Something is rotten in the State."


Editor's note: For more information on the impact at the Pentagon, see General Stubblebine, Colonel Nelson, Commander Muga, Lt. Col. Kwiatkowski, Lt. Col. Latas, Major Rokke, Capt. Wittenberg, Barbara Honegger, April Gallop, Colonel Bunel, and Steve DeChiaro.


Lt. Col. Karen Kwiatkowski, PhD

Lt. Col. Karen U. Kwiatkowski, PhD, U.S. Air Force (ret) – Former Political-Military Affairs Officer in the Office of the Secretary of Defense. Also served on the staff of the Director of the National Security Agency. 20-year Air Force career. Member adjunct faculty, Political Science Department, James Madison University. Instructor, University of Maryland University College and American Public University System. Author of African Crisis Response Initiative: Past Present and Future (2000) and Expeditionary Air Operations in Africa: Challenges and Solutions (2001).
Contributor to 9/11 and American Empire: Intellectuals Speak Out 8/23/06: Account of Lt. Col. Karen Kwiatkowski, Pentagon employee and eyewitness to the events at the Pentagon on 9/11. "I believe the Commission failed to deeply examine the topic at hand, failed to apply scientific rigor to its assessment of events leading up to and including 9/11, failed to produce a believable and unbiased summary of what happened, failed to fully examine why it happened, and even failed to include a set of unanswered questions for future research. ...

It is as a scientist that I have the most trouble with the official government conspiracy theory, mainly because it does not satisfy the rules of probability or physics. The collapses of the World Trade Center buildings clearly violate the laws of probability and physics. ...

There was a dearth of visible debris on the relatively unmarked [Pentagon] lawn, where I stood only minutes after the impact. Beyond this strange absence of airliner debris, there was no sign of the kind of damage to the Pentagon structure one would expect from the impact of a large airliner. This visible evidence or lack thereof may also have been apparent to the secretary of defense [Donald Rumsfeld], who in an unfortunate slip of the tongue referred to the aircraft that slammed into the Pentagon as a "missile". ...

I saw nothing of significance at the point of impact - no airplane metal or cargo debris was blowing on the lawn in front of the damaged building as smoke billowed from within the Pentagon. ... all of us staring at the Pentagon that morning were indeed looking for such debris, but what we expected to see was not evident.

The same is true with regard to the kind of damage we expected. ... But I did not see this kind of damage. Rather, the facade had a rather small hole, no larger than 20 feet in diameter. Although this facade later collapsed, it remained standing for 30 or 40 minutes, with the roof line remaining relatively straight.

The scene, in short, was not what I would have expected from a strike by a large jetliner. It was, however, exactly what one would expect if a missile had struck the Pentagon. ...

.More information is certainly needed regarding the events of 9/11 and the events leading up to that terrible day


Major General Albert Stubblebine, U.S. Army (ret) – Former Commanding General of U.S. Army Intelligence and Security Command, 1981 - 1984. Also commanded the U.S. Army’s Electronic Research and Development Command and the U.S. Army’s Intelligence School and Center. Former head of Imagery Interpretation for Scientific and Technical Intelligence. 32-year Army career.

Member, Military Intelligence Hall of Fame.
Video 7/11/06: "One of my experiences in the Army was being in charge of the Army’s Imagery Interpretation for Scientific and Technical Intelligence during the Cold War. I measured pieces of Soviet equipment from photographs. It was my job. I look at the hole in the Pentagon and I look at the size of an airplane that was supposed to have hit the Pentagon. And I said, ‘The plane does not fit in that hole’. So what did hit the Pentagon? What hit it? Where is it? What's going on?" http://www.und


Editor's note: For more information on the impact at the Pentagon, see Colonel Nelson, Commander Muga, Lt. Col. Kwiatkowski, Lt. Col. Latas, Major Rokke, Capt. Wittenberg, Capt. Davis, Barbara Honegger, April Gallop, Colonel Bunel, and Steve DeChiaro.




Patriots Question 9/11 - Responsible Criticism of the 9/11 ...This website provides responsible criticism of the 9/11 Commission Report by senior military, intelligence and government officials.
www.patriotsquestion911.com/ - 419k -

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Yup, the US government secretly kidnapped hundreds of passengers from 4 aircraft, flew the aircraft to secret bases ( of which we have none) either murdered these passengers or are holding them captive in some secret location.

Further somehow the US Government made and flew 4 missiles or remotely piloted aircraft into these buildings. They planted TONS of explosives undetected in 4 buildings, they created holographic images of an airliner smashing into the World Trade Tower or somehow managed to alter every film and picture of the event after the fact AND bribed all the people, news organizations and such that took those images.

The hundreds of conspirators needed to pull this off have also remained silent for 6 years. Or maybe they too were imprisoned or murdered like the passengers on those jets?

Shall I go on with the reasons the idiotic claims of the conspiracy people are just that IGNORANT?

 

[eots]

Col. Robert Bowman, PhD, U.S. Air Force (ret) – Director of Advanced Space Programs Development under Presidents Ford and Carter. U.S. Air Force fighter pilot with over 100 combat missions. (PhD in Aeronautics and Nuclear Engineering, Cal Tech). Former Head of the Department of Aeronautical Engineering and Assistant Dean at the U.S. Air Force Institute of Technology. 22-year Air Force career. Also taught Mathematics and English at the University of Southern California, the University of Maryland, and Phillips University.
Video 9/11/04: "A lot of these pieces of information, taken together, prove that the official story, the official conspiracy theory of 9/11 is a bunch of hogwash. It’s impossible. … There’s a second group of facts having to do with the cover up. … Taken together these things prove that high levels of our government don’t want us to know what happened and who’s responsible.…

Who gained from 9/11? Who covered up crucial information about 9/11? And who put out the patently false stories about 9/11 in the first place? When you take those three things together, I think the case is pretty clear that it’s highly placed individuals in the administration with all roads passing through Dick Cheney.

I think the very kindest thing that we can say about George W. Bush and all the people in the U.S. Government that have been involved in this massive cover-up, the very kindest thing we can say is that they were aware of impending attacks and let them happen. Now some people will say that’s much too kind, however even that is high treason and conspiracy to commit murder
Joel M. Skousen – Former U.S. Marine Corps fighter pilot. Commercial pilot. Aircraft flown: McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom, Douglas A-4 Skyhawk, Grumman F-9 Cougar, North American T-2C Buckeye, various civilian planes. Member, Experimental Aircraft Association. Member, Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association. Former Chairman of the Conservative National Committee in Washington DC and Executive Editor of Conservative Digest. Author of Essential Principles for the Conservation of Liberty (1984), The Secure Home--Architectural Design, Construction and Remodeling of Self-Sufficient Residences and Retreats (1982, 1999), How to Implement a High Security Shelter in the Home (1996), Strategic Relocation--North American Guide to Safe Places (1998), Foundations of the Ideal State (2007).

Essay Debunking the Debunkers 2/14/05: "For over a decade now, the PTB [Powers That Be] have used an odd vehicle to do their debunking on a variety of issues - Popular Mechanics Magazine (a Hearst publication). I suppose they are targeting the back-yard mechanic and auto-enthusiast crowd, who are often prone to accepting conspiracy facts and theories.

In the March 2005 issue, PM magazine singled out 16 issues or claims of the 9/11 skeptics that point to government collusion and systematically attempted to debunk each one. Of the 16, most missed the mark and almost half were straw men arguments - either ridiculous arguments that few conspiracists believed or restatements of the arguments that were highly distorted so as to make them look weaker than they really were. ...

I am one of those who claim there are factual arguments pointing to conspiracy, and that truth is not served by taking cheap shots at those who see gaping flaws in the government story ...

There is significant evidence that the aircraft impacts did not cause the collapse [of the Twin Towers] ...

The issues of the penetration hole [at the Pentagon] and the lack of large pieces of debris simply do not jive with the official story, but they are explainable if you include the parking lot video evidence that shows a huge white explosion at impact. This cannot happen with an aircraft laden only with fuel. It can only happen in the presence of high explosives." http://www.rense.com


Member: Pilots for 9/11 Truth Association Statement: "Pilots for 9/11 Truth is an organization of aviation professionals and pilots throughout the globe that have gathered together for one purpose. We are committed to seeking the truth surrounding the events of the 11th of September 2001. Our main focus concentrates on the four flights, maneuvers performed and the reported pilots. We do not offer theory or point blame. However, we are focused on determining the truth of that fateful day since the United States Government doesn't seem to be very forthcoming with answers."


Website: http://www.joelskousen.com/


Patriots Question 9/11 - Responsible Criticism of the 9/11 ...This website provides responsible criticism of the 9/11 Commission Report by senior
military, intelligence and government officials.
www.patriotsquestion911.com/ - 419k

I would like to put forth the proposition that it is you sir who is ignorant

 

[ReillyT]

Col. Robert Bowman, PhD, U.S. Air Force (ret) – Director of Advanced Space Programs Development under Presidents Ford and Carter. U.S. Air Force fighter pilot with over 100 combat missions. (PhD in Aeronautics and Nuclear Engineering, Cal Tech). Former Head of the Department of Aeronautical Engineering and Assistant Dean at the U.S. Air Force Institute of Technology. 22-year Air Force career. Also taught Mathematics and English at the University of Southern California, the University of Maryland, and Phillips University.
Video 9/11/04: "A lot of these pieces of information, taken together, prove that the official story, the official conspiracy theory of 9/11 is a bunch of hogwash. It’s impossible. … There’s a second group of facts having to do with the cover up. … Taken together these things prove that high levels of our government don’t want us to know what happened and who’s responsible.…

Who gained from 9/11? Who covered up crucial information about 9/11? And who put out the patently false stories about 9/11 in the first place? When you take those three things together, I think the case is pretty clear that it’s highly placed individuals in the administration with all roads passing through Dick Cheney.

I think the very kindest thing that we can say about George W. Bush and all the people in the U.S. Government that have been involved in this massive cover-up, the very kindest thing we can say is that they were aware of impending attacks and let them happen. Now some people will say that’s much too kind, however even that is high treason and conspiracy to commit murder
Joel M. Skousen – Former U.S. Marine Corps fighter pilot. Commercial pilot. Aircraft flown: McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom, Douglas A-4 Skyhawk, Grumman F-9 Cougar, North American T-2C Buckeye, various civilian planes. Member, Experimental Aircraft Association. Member, Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association. Former Chairman of the Conservative National Committee in Washington DC and Executive Editor of Conservative Digest. Author of Essential Principles for the Conservation of Liberty (1984), The Secure Home--Architectural Design, Construction and Remodeling of Self-Sufficient Residences and Retreats (1982, 1999), How to Implement a High Security Shelter in the Home (1996), Strategic Relocation--North American Guide to Safe Places (1998), Foundations of the Ideal State (2007).

Essay Debunking the Debunkers 2/14/05: "For over a decade now, the PTB [Powers That Be] have used an odd vehicle to do their debunking on a variety of issues - Popular Mechanics Magazine (a Hearst publication). I suppose they are targeting the back-yard mechanic and auto-enthusiast crowd, who are often prone to accepting conspiracy facts and theories.

In the March 2005 issue, PM magazine singled out 16 issues or claims of the 9/11 skeptics that point to government collusion and systematically attempted to debunk each one. Of the 16, most missed the mark and almost half were straw men arguments - either ridiculous arguments that few conspiracists believed or restatements of the arguments that were highly distorted so as to make them look weaker than they really were. ...

I am one of those who claim there are factual arguments pointing to conspiracy, and that truth is not served by taking cheap shots at those who see gaping flaws in the government story ...

There is significant evidence that the aircraft impacts did not cause the collapse [of the Twin Towers] ...

The issues of the penetration hole [at the Pentagon] and the lack of large pieces of debris simply do not jive with the official story, but they are explainable if you include the parking lot video evidence that shows a huge white explosion at impact. This cannot happen with an aircraft laden only with fuel. It can only happen in the presence of high explosives." http://www.rense.com


Member: Pilots for 9/11 Truth Association Statement: "Pilots for 9/11 Truth is an organization of aviation professionals and pilots throughout the globe that have gathered together for one purpose. We are committed to seeking the truth surrounding the events of the 11th of September 2001. Our main focus concentrates on the four flights, maneuvers performed and the reported pilots. We do not offer theory or point blame. However, we are focused on determining the truth of that fateful day since the United States Government doesn't seem to be very forthcoming with answers."


Website: http://www.joelskousen.com/


Patriots Question 9/11 - Responsible Criticism of the 9/11 ...This website provides responsible criticism of the 9/11 Commission Report by senior
military, intelligence and government officials.
www.patriotsquestion911.com/ - 419k

I would like to put forth the proposition that it is you sir who is ignorant

I know that you have questions about the role of the government in 9/11. You have expressed them many places, which is fine. However, could you please try not to turn every thread to the issue of 9/11 conspiracy theories? If you want to discuss it, please either do it in a thread in which it is an issue (or at least tangentally related to the issue), or begin a new thread on the topic.

It is not that it isn't an interesting topic. It is just that it doesn't need to be addressed to every thread.

Thanks.

 

[eots]

Sorry but it is impossible to discuss bush ,the war ,what military is saying
without addressing the fact that ,the military industrial complex is who is in control not the people and that the elements within the government orchestrated this war and the events of 911 that they funded bin laden and all-cia -duh ,sold sadam his chemical weapons etc ,it is like discussing wwf wrestling or a soap opera as if it is real

p.s I am yet to hear a reasonable response to the belief of these patriots
and why their voice is silenced in mainstream media


Patriots Question 9/11 - Responsible Criticism of the 9/11 ...This website provides responsible criticism of the 9/11 Commission Report by senior military, intelligence and government officials.
www.patriotsquestion911.com/ - 419k

 

[dilloduck]

Sorry but it is impossible to discuss bush ,the war ,what military is saying
without addressing the fact that ,the military industrial complex is who is in control not the people and that the elements within the government orchestrated this war and the events of 911 that they funded bin laden and all-cia -duh ,sold sadam his chemical weapons etc ,it is like discussing wwf wrestling or a soap opera as if it is real

p.s I am yet to hear a reasonable response to the belief of these patriots
and why their voice is silenced in mainstream media


Patriots Question 9/11 - Responsible Criticism of the 9/11 ...This website provides responsible criticism of the 9/11 Commission Report by senior military, intelligence and government officials.
www.patriotsquestion911.com/ - 419k

Why don't ya just start a thread and lay it all out for us from the beginning.