What matters most to you, Country First*, or ideology?

[Wry Catcher]

Here's the deal. We are a divided county, and yet most of us - sadly not all - would like to see all of us treated fairly by a government, notwithstanding which party is in power, where win-win policies replace the zero sum game we've seen for too many decades.

Without throwing bombs at either party - and it is very hard for me to not pick the side most of you know I support - let's try to offer some solutions to the schism, rather than feed the flames of dissension.

* County First is defined for the purpose of this thread, as a group of policies which treat all of our citizens equally - before the law and within this thread.

I have a list of ideas I will publish at the end of the time others have has their say.

 

[TNHarley]

I dont have a particular ideology. I only support what i think is right and look down upon policies built off of historical failure.
America should always be first IMO but its not. We will give our ta xmoney to countries that hate us and we have our own vets sleeping in the streets and children starving. Its bullshit. We cant solve our own problems and want to dictate to the rest of the world. That is also bullshit.

 

[task0778]

I believe in and support equal treatment for everybody under the law and in the marketplace. But the problem lies in our definitions of what constitutes equal treatment, are we going to focus on equal opportunity or equal outcomes? AND, what policies are we going to follow to improve the situation?

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

I think the U.S. has become a "party first, America second" country for sure.

 

[ABikerSailor]

You know, I've always been a country first kind of guy. Sort of why I became an independent in the first place, because I could see where the GOP had some good ideas and I could also see where the Dems had some good ideas, and to blindly follow one party over the other just causes problems.

I'm also old enough to remember when the GOP and the Dems could work together to get things done, regardless of which party was in the WH.

Now? Well, it seems that after the "us vs. them" mentality that we developed after 9/11, we took that and kept deepening the divide until it evolved into the mess that we have today.

And, it didn't help that when Obama was first elected, the GOP made it their single goal to make him a one term president. What's even worse, is that they said it publicly without anything to base it on.

 

[westwall]

Country always before ideology. That is the reason why the Founders made it so difficult to change the COTUS. Our very system was designed to be adversarial. The Founders realized that when the political party's get it in their head to work together, the people suffer. I am amazed at their genius every time some ideologue tries to abrogate OUR Rights.

 

[Mac1958]

I think the U.S. has become a "party first, America second" country for sure.

Sad but true, and it's not even close.
.

 

[JakeStarkey]

We may be beyond the balanced government of the past and going on down the path to authoritarian one-party government.

From the very beginning of the two-party ideology, each has hated the other. Think not? Look at the elections of 1800 and 1860, of 1896 and 2016.

 

[LaDexter]

During W's tenure, the Dems and GOP loved each other, and the country went from budget surplus and strong economy to trillion dollar deficit and depression in just 8 years because of it....

 

[LaDexter]

Many will answer country first.

The problem is that country is Israel, not the US, for the majority of W apologists and others.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

We may be beyond the balanced government of the past and going on down the path to authoritarian one-party government.

From the very beginning of the two-party ideology, each has hated the other. Think not? Look at the elections of 1800 and 1860, of 1896 and 2016.

The parties, sure, but the people? We've had plenty of elections where a presidential candidate has won in a major landslide, Reagan winning 49 states, FDR winning 46, LBJ, JFK, and Nixon all winning over 40. That's impossible now.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The needs of Israel, yes, before our white supremacists.

 

[LaDexter]

The needs of Israel, yes

YES YES YES YES YES

Should we give $10 bil per year to Israel, Jake??

YES YES YES YES YES YES

Should we never allow the American people to see the video of the "757" hitting the Pentagon?

YES YES YES YES YES


Jake is an ISRAEL FIRST-er...

 

[task0778]

Many will answer country first.

The problem is that country is Israel, not the US, for the majority of W apologists and others.

I guess my version of reality is quite different from yours. And I'm pretty sure the Dems and the Repubs were not that friendly under Bush 43.

 

[ABikerSailor]

During W's tenure, the Dems and GOP loved each other, and the country went from budget surplus and strong economy to trillion dollar deficit and depression in just 8 years because of it....

Yeah, and during that love in, the GOP and Jr. managed to cut taxes several times, one cut which came about after the war had started. They put a 10 year expiration date on them because they weren't sure if they would work or not. Well, they worked for a while, but then 7 years later, the economy tanked under Jr., but they still wanted to keep their tax cuts.

Now? Kinda looks like Trump is poised to do the same damn thing, only this time it's gonna tank much quicker.

 

[LaDexter]

And I'm pretty sure the Dems and the Repubs were not that friendly under Bush 43.

Do you think Dems opposed

1. socializing senior drugs
2. $1 trillion flushed down the public education sewer in No Child Left Behind
3. invading Iraq over 100% pure lies
4. first responding to 911 by unionizing baggage handlers and hence doubling their pay (paid by the taxpayer of course)
5. outspending LBJ

No, the Dems and GOP became one and the same in 1998 when Gingrich was ousted. The country has suffered ever since.

 

[task0778]

During W's tenure, the Dems and GOP loved each other, and the country went from budget surplus and strong economy to trillion dollar deficit and depression in just 8 years because of it....

Yeah, and during that love in, the GOP and Jr. managed to cut taxes several times, one cut which came about after the war had started. They put a 10 year expiration date on them because they weren't sure if they would work or not. Well, they worked for a while, but then 7 years later, the economy tanked under Jr., but they still wanted to keep their tax cuts.

Now? Kinda looks like Trump is poised to do the same damn thing, only this time it's gonna tank much quicker.

Are you suggesting that the Bush tax cuts had anything to do with the recession? Not many people would agree with that, outside of the far left ideologues.

 

[TNHarley]

I believe in and support equal treatment for everybody under the law and in the marketplace. But the problem lies in our definitions of what constitutes equal treatment, are we going to focus on equal opportunity or equal outcomes? AND, what policies are we going to follow to improve the situation?

Indeed. We are so divided, we cant even agree on what "equal means". One thinks equal is giving special treatment to some, while others think the treatment should be equal across the board.

 

[LaDexter]

Are you suggesting that the Bush tax cuts had anything to do with the recession?

Did Reagan's tax cuts cause a depression? No

Did Clinton/Gingrich's tax cuts cause a depression? No

What was different??

SPENDING

Not tax cuts, SPENDING...

W spent and spent and spent and that's why the Dems loved him so much, he helped them steal steal steal...

 

[Dragonlady]

During W's tenure, the Dems and GOP loved each other, and the country went from budget surplus and strong economy to trillion dollar deficit and depression in just 8 years because of it....

I think that's an over-simplification of what happened. After 9/11, it was important for everyone to pull together and for everyone to support the President as he dealt with the aftermath. It didn't help that Bush portrayed everyone who opposed his policies as "aiding and abetting the terrorists". So Democrats did abandon partisanship and put country first. And Bush fucked up. He fucked up real bad.