What makes arguing with liberals so frustrating #1

[Dr.Drock]

The most infuriating thing to conservatives when arguing with liberals is complexity. Conservatives tend to try to boil everything down to simplicity, the argument always starts when someone says "it's not that simple or clearcut."

That, and their black-and-white position on every issue.

Hyperpartisans on this board are black and white with every position they have, they support what their team does, don't support what the other team does.


How many Obamabots speak out in favor of a republican position over a democrat position on 1 issue?


How many Bushbots speak out in favor of a democrat position over a republican position on 1 issue?



I'd say that equates to less than 1% of the posts by partisans on this board.

 

[syrenn]

I see this over and over. Conservatives are for limited government. Just because we say we don't want government doing things where government is inept, counterproductive, wasteful or whatever, does not mean that we should shut it down totally.

Yes, we do need roads, bridges, highways, jails, schools, aircraft carriers, GPS satellites, standard weights and measures, courts, etc etc. Saying we don't need subsidies for crummy cars badly built and still with astronomical prices does not mean we don't need highways.

The conservative view is that the government should be a useful servant of the people's needs. However, you give it too much money, power, authority it becomes the worst sort of master.

I will give you one good example:



liesmatters

 

[Baruch Menachem]

The most infuriating thing to conservatives when arguing with liberals is complexity. Conservatives tend to try to boil everything down to simplicity, the argument always starts when someone says "it's not that simple or clearcut."

Everything, no matter how complex, starts with simple principles. If you understand the principles involved in a discussion, the complexity later on makes more sense. If you disdain the basics, then any argument on complexity becomes little more than special pleading.

 

[jillian]

i find it interesting that people who post threads like this are surprised when others respond to them accordingly and don't take them seriously.

 

[g5000]

I see this over and over. Conservatives are for limited government.

These days, the committment to limited government by conservatives is just so much lip service.

The leadership in no way actually means it.

I give you Homeland Security and the unfinanced Medicare Group D as prime examples.

 

[rightwinger]

I see this over and over. Conservatives are for limited government. Just because we say we don't want government doing things where government is inept, counterproductive, wasteful or whatever, does not mean that we should shut it down totally.

Yes, we do need roads, bridges, highways, jails, schools, aircraft carriers, GPS satellites, standard weights and measures, courts, etc etc. Saying we don't need subsidies for crummy cars badly built and still with astronomical prices does not mean we don't need highways.

The conservative view is that the government should be a useful servant of the people's needs. However, you give it too much money, power, authority it becomes the worst sort of master.

Some functions are better served by you as an individual, some are better served as a society

 

[amrchaos]

The most infuriating thing to conservatives when arguing with liberals is complexity. Conservatives tend to try to boil everything down to simplicity, the argument always starts when someone says "it's not that simple or clearcut."

Everything, no matter how complex, starts with simple principles. If you understand the principles involved in a discussion, the complexity later on makes more sense. If you disdain the basics, then any argument on complexity becomes little more than special pleading.

But what if the person you are talking to (say, the liberal) disagree with some of your principles?

What if their philosophy of government is a bit radical? What if their definition of "useful servant" is your definition of "overworked poor soul"?

What if they are brainwashed into thinking that you are an evil FOX propagandist that has yet to score your own radio talkshow? What then?

 

[rightwinger]

When was the last time conservatives reduced the size of Government?

 

[koshergrl]

The most infuriating thing to conservatives when arguing with liberals is complexity. Conservatives tend to try to boil everything down to simplicity, the argument always starts when someone says "it's not that simple or clearcut."

What you see as "complexity" I see as "dishonesty" and "lack of clear vision".

Liberals don't like things stated in black and white, because when they are boiled down to basic tenets, it's the lib beliefs that always equal tyranny and oppression.

So they embark on the pretense that by changing what certain words mean, the underlying loathsomeness of whatever it is they are proposing will be hidden. And they lie about what motivates them. For example, they pretend that abortion is about helping women and children...despite the overwhelming (black and white, uh oh) evidence that abortion harms women and has done nothing to protect children or make their lot more bearable. In fact, the pure numbers (black and white) show just the opposite.

The same with shutting down industry.....libs pretend it's about "protecting the environment" when really all it's about is preventing people from being able to work. They don't want people to prosper...propserity is arrogance! THEY want to prosper...but they certainly are not interested in allowing the unwashed masses to be able to succeed. Which is why they believe in gorging the education sector and government sector (where most of them work) with funding...while at the same time preventing any funding, and in fact shutting down and penalizing, endeavors that will allow anyone else to achieve success. Pay those teachers and the unions! More money for entitlement programs! Screw logging, auto and oil industry! Fuck those people, they're without any value anyway! Everybody knows the only people WORTH are either teachers, students, or working in government-subsidized entitlement programs teaching idiots how to avoid working!!! Yeah!

 

[amrchaos]

i find it interesting that people who post threads like this are surprised when others respond to them accordingly and don't take them seriously.

Actually, Menachem is usually direct and on the level.

But why did s/he decide to post a potentially board burning question is a bit shocking to me.

That is the kind of question I ask to promote partisan bickering! Not Menachem!

 

[occupied]

The most infuriating thing to conservatives when arguing with liberals is complexity. Conservatives tend to try to boil everything down to simplicity, the argument always starts when someone says "it's not that simple or clearcut."

Everything, no matter how complex, starts with simple principles. If you understand the principles involved in a discussion, the complexity later on makes more sense. If you disdain the basics, then any argument on complexity becomes little more than special pleading.

Everyone starts with the basic truisms, conservatives cling to them as dogma.

 

[Truthseeker420]

The most infuriating thing to conservatives when arguing with liberals is complexity. Conservatives tend to try to boil everything down to simplicity, the argument always starts when someone says "it's not that simple or clearcut."

lol you could make a book of conservative simple minded one liners.Yesterday I heard some conservative talk host give the retarded line 'Rising tides Lift all Boats".

 

[amrchaos]

When was the last time conservatives reduced the size of Government?

Under Clinton!

When any single party controls the entire government, expect excesses in terms of what they favor.

I tend to advocate for mixed power sharing with some 3rd partiers(Libertarians, Greens, reformers) thrown into the mix to keep the grip of power slippery at best. Our government is best when it looks like a tossed political salad! No one can force they madness down the throats of others, and sensible arguements contain a better chance of surfacing.

 

[jillian]

i find it interesting that people who post threads like this are surprised when others respond to them accordingly and don't take them seriously.

Actually, Menachem is usually direct and on the level.

But why did s/he decide to post a potentially board burning question is a bit shocking to me.

That is the kind of question I ask to promote partisan bickering! Not Menachem!

i don't know why you'd say that. any thread entitled "what makes arguiong with liberals so frustrating" is a troll thread.

and entertaining that type of nonsense is silly, imo.

and, frankly, his whining that one doesn't "debate" things like this is annoying.

 

[amrchaos]

The most infuriating thing to conservatives when arguing with liberals is complexity. Conservatives tend to try to boil everything down to simplicity, the argument always starts when someone says "it's not that simple or clearcut."

lol you could make a book of conservative simple minded one liners.Yesterday I heard some conservative talk host give the retarded line 'Rising tides Lift all Boats".

That is in terms of tax cuts and it did apply during Reagans term.

Nowadays, a little bit of a Technocrats philosophy should be applied. Not every one needs a tax cut and one should be careful about revenue else you miss the TR maximum point.

Find those that need the tax cut and cut there taxes, but don't cut a person taxes because it makes them happys

 

[GuyPinestra]

The most infuriating thing to conservatives when arguing with liberals is complexity. Conservatives tend to try to boil everything down to simplicity, the argument always starts when someone says "it's not that simple or clearcut."

lol you could make a book of conservative simple minded one liners.Yesterday I heard some conservative talk host give the retarded line 'Rising tides Lift all Boats".

That was actually a JFK line...

 

[asaratis]

The most infuriating thing to conservatives when arguing with liberals is complexity. Conservatives tend to try to boil everything down to simplicity, the argument always starts when someone says "it's not that simple or clearcut."

Everything, no matter how complex, starts with simple principles. If you understand the principles involved in a discussion, the complexity later on makes more sense. If you disdain the basics, then any argument on complexity becomes little more than special pleading.

...as when the liberal debater refuses to answer a simple "yes or no" question, knowing that the true answer will lay the groundwork to defeat their argument.

 

[toxicmedia]

I see this over and over. Conservatives are for limited government. Just because we say we don't want government doing things where government is inept, counterproductive, wasteful or whatever, does not mean that we should shut it down totally.

Yes, we do need roads, bridges, highways, jails, schools, aircraft carriers, GPS satellites, standard weights and measures, courts, etc etc. Saying we don't need subsidies for crummy cars badly built and still with astronomical prices does not mean we don't need highways.

The conservative view is that the government should be a useful servant of the people's needs. However, you give it too much money, power, authority it becomes the worst sort of master.

One of the reasons you may be frustrated is because the lefties, Democrats, liberals, and Progressives I know don't want inefficent government either.

The problem is with the definition of inept, counterproductive, or wasteful. Unfortunatly, conservativ media states that anything Obama wamts to do is inept, counterproductive, and wasteful, and everything the GOP wants to do isn't.

Trying to fit our government into that black and white oversimplification would frustrate anyone

 

[NLT]

The most infuriating thing to conservatives when arguing with liberals is complexity. Conservatives tend to try to boil everything down to simplicity, the argument always starts when someone says "it's not that simple or clearcut."

lol you could make a book of conservative simple minded one liners.Yesterday I heard some conservative talk host give the retarded line 'Rising tides Lift all Boats".

The phrase is attributed to John F Kennedy who used it in a 1963 speech to combat criticisms that a dam project he was inaugurating was a pork barrel project.

 

[Bfgrn]

I see this over and over. Conservatives are for limited government.

WHEN? It never happens. Conservatives are only for limiting ONE thing in government; liberals and Democrats.