What makes a Gun Run by a Fighter or an Attack Bird so dangerous

[Daryl Hunt]

There are some that think it's a cakewalk to do a gun run at low level for a gun run. It's not and never has been.

The flight starts out with accessing the situation. You don't just fly straight in. You talk to the ground troops, access what they have to say, get the parameters and locations from them. Then you fly parallel to those cooridnants and eyeball them to verify them yourself. Then you fly off and turn towards the mark. You will be jinxing as in not flying in a straight line. At some point, you will start flying in a straight line directly towards your targets and then release your gun. You are most vulnerable at this point. You have slowed down to allow your guns to do their maximum damage. After you fire, you now will maintain your low level and spool your engines up and gain as much speed as possible. After you get enough speed, you will gain as much altitude as you can until you are safely above ground fire. You will be releasing all sorts of chaff and flares to minimize hazards all through this. And your onboard jammer will be working overtime.

The problem the A-10 has, it is underpowered. It comes in just fine, flies through the the firing stage great. But when it goes to extend out (spooling up to gain speed) it does it too slow. It's vulnerable too long to ground fire. Remember, not all ground fire is either IR or Radar. Some is line of site or Mark I Eyeball. As long as it was just a bunch of rag tag fighters, the A-10 could do whatever it wished. But today, the A-10 is very vulnerable when on the deck and so is every other Air Craft. But the A-10s Gun can do a tremendous amount of damage when used at low level and sometimes, that is the best option.

NO other Aircraft can do a low level gun run like the A-10. All the others try and avoid it like the plague. Even the A-10 tries to avoid it these days. It's only used when there are no other alternatives.

 

[Scamp]

The A-10 has the best airborne gatling cannon of any attack plane we have and the best armor. But when you get low enough for a gun run, any peasant on the ground can get a lucky shot with a rifle that will take you down. Only takes one lucky shot.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

The A-10 has the best airborne gatling cannon of any attack plane we have and the best armor. But when you get low enough for a gun run, any peasant on the ground can get a lucky shot with a rifle that will take you down. Only takes one lucky shot.

I don't see a lucky rifle shot taking out an A-10 out by a rifle. My Father toldme of a lone Observation single engine plane with an ME-109 on it's tail trying to shoot it down. The L-5 kept turning and jinxing but kept moving until it was over an entire company of Infantry with M-1s. It took a few passes for the Infantry to Infantry to finally down the 109. Hitting a bird flying at over 300 mph with a rifle from the ground target with a rifle is next to impossible. The lead required is probably well beyond the normal brains capacity.

 

[Scamp]

Any single rifle shot that goes into the jet turbine destroys that engine. And any single rifle shot that pierces the canopy and hits the pilot can be fatal. Lucky maybe. Impossible not. Especially when you have many shooters aiming at that attack plane.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Any single rifle shot that goes into the jet turbine destroys that engine. And any single rifle shot that pierces the canopy and hits the pilot can be fatal. Lucky maybe. Impossible not. Especially when you have many shooters aiming at that attack plane.

The Canapy can take a 23 mm hit without penetration. A single 556 or 7.62 or even 12.7 into the compressor blades will damage a few blades but that's about it. It will degrade the performance a bit but not enough to down the bird. Now, put a 23mm in there and it's a different story. And a 23mm isn't a Rifle. The 23mm is a vehicle mounted automatic weapon and can ruin anyone's day.

 

[Scamp]

I know that in Desert Storm many A-10s took hits and still made it back. Some of them took many hits and made it back. But 6 were shot down. Can't say what took them down.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

I know that in Desert Storm many A-10s took hits and still made it back. Some of them took many hits and made it back. But 6 were shot down. Can't say what took them down.

I won't do a search on it but if memory serves me correctly, the primary reason for downing the A-10 was Surface to Air Missiles and AA. A direct hit from any of these can result in the total loss of any Aircraft. The smaller the bird the more likely the loss. Most damage is done by near misses. Direct hits are normally complete losses. The good news is, direct hits are far and few in between. This is not to say that a near miss can't take an AC out as well. A near miss means that the proximity fuse goes off and the warhead detonates X feet away from the target and it throws out shrapnel or rods which causes the damage. Sometimes it misses and other times it doesn't. Sometimes it's too far away to do any real damage and other times it's not. It's a crap shoot.

 

[westwall]

There are some that think it's a cakewalk to do a gun run at low level for a gun run. It's not and never has been.

The flight starts out with accessing the situation. You don't just fly straight in. You talk to the ground troops, access what they have to say, get the parameters and locations from them. Then you fly parallel to those cooridnants and eyeball them to verify them yourself. Then you fly off and turn towards the mark. You will be jinxing as in not flying in a straight line. At some point, you will start flying in a straight line directly towards your targets and then release your gun. You are most vulnerable at this point. You have slowed down to allow your guns to do their maximum damage. After you fire, you now will maintain your low level and spool your engines up and gain as much speed as possible. After you get enough speed, you will gain as much altitude as you can until you are safely above ground fire. You will be releasing all sorts of chaff and flares to minimize hazards all through this. And your onboard jammer will be working overtime.

The problem the A-10 has, it is underpowered. It comes in just fine, flies through the the firing stage great. But when it goes to extend out (spooling up to gain speed) it does it too slow. It's vulnerable too long to ground fire. Remember, not all ground fire is either IR or Radar. Some is line of site or Mark I Eyeball. As long as it was just a bunch of rag tag fighters, the A-10 could do whatever it wished. But today, the A-10 is very vulnerable when on the deck and so is every other Air Craft. But the A-10s Gun can do a tremendous amount of damage when used at low level and sometimes, that is the best option.

NO other Aircraft can do a low level gun run like the A-10. All the others try and avoid it like the plague. Even the A-10 tries to avoid it these days. It's only used when there are no other alternatives.

Hmmm, current video seems to show otherwise. The low level gun run is still quite popular with the pilots. The rest of the videos are really long, but these short ones give a good idea. Most of what you say is of course true, but it has always been true. The A-10, and the SU-25 however were designed to fight in that very environment. Small arms fire against them is almost pointless, unless they are hit by a cannon round in a critical spot (which are all armored anyway) they are likewise able to absorb a tremendous amount of punishment before they have to leave, so that leaves MANPADS which are definitely a concern, but not nearly so dire as you make them out to be.

The fact is there are not that many around. They are mainly used against helicopters because they have a hard time getting out of their own way.

There were indeed 6 A-10's shot down during Desert Storm, one was lost to an SA-16 MANPAD, the other 5 to SA-13 or similar systems.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

There are some that think it's a cakewalk to do a gun run at low level for a gun run. It's not and never has been.

The flight starts out with accessing the situation. You don't just fly straight in. You talk to the ground troops, access what they have to say, get the parameters and locations from them. Then you fly parallel to those cooridnants and eyeball them to verify them yourself. Then you fly off and turn towards the mark. You will be jinxing as in not flying in a straight line. At some point, you will start flying in a straight line directly towards your targets and then release your gun. You are most vulnerable at this point. You have slowed down to allow your guns to do their maximum damage. After you fire, you now will maintain your low level and spool your engines up and gain as much speed as possible. After you get enough speed, you will gain as much altitude as you can until you are safely above ground fire. You will be releasing all sorts of chaff and flares to minimize hazards all through this. And your onboard jammer will be working overtime.

The problem the A-10 has, it is underpowered. It comes in just fine, flies through the the firing stage great. But when it goes to extend out (spooling up to gain speed) it does it too slow. It's vulnerable too long to ground fire. Remember, not all ground fire is either IR or Radar. Some is line of site or Mark I Eyeball. As long as it was just a bunch of rag tag fighters, the A-10 could do whatever it wished. But today, the A-10 is very vulnerable when on the deck and so is every other Air Craft. But the A-10s Gun can do a tremendous amount of damage when used at low level and sometimes, that is the best option.

NO other Aircraft can do a low level gun run like the A-10. All the others try and avoid it like the plague. Even the A-10 tries to avoid it these days. It's only used when there are no other alternatives.

Hmmm, current video seems to show otherwise. The low level gun run is still quite popular with the pilots. The rest of the videos are really long, but these short ones give a good idea. Most of what you say is of course true, but it has always been true. The A-10, and the SU-25 however were designed to fight in that very environment. Small arms fire against them is almost pointless, unless they are hit by a cannon round in a critical spot (which are all armored anyway) they are likewise able to absorb a tremendous amount of punishment before they have to leave, so that leaves MANPADS which are definitely a concern, but not nearly so dire as you make them out to be.

The fact is there are not that many around. They are mainly used against helicopters because they have a hard time getting out of their own way.

There were indeed 6 A-10's shot down during Desert Storm, one was lost to an SA-16 MANPAD, the other 5 to SA-13 or similar systems.

The first footage is at least 2 years old. How old it is no one will ever know for sure. And that footage only shows an A-10 in the Air, nothing more. The second footage, look at it closely. Now unless you can get an A-10 to suspend in mid air then it's done by an AC-130. The real giveaway is the slow counter clockwise motion. That's the orbit of the AC-130. Thank your making my points so well.

 

[westwall]

There are some that think it's a cakewalk to do a gun run at low level for a gun run. It's not and never has been.

The flight starts out with accessing the situation. You don't just fly straight in. You talk to the ground troops, access what they have to say, get the parameters and locations from them. Then you fly parallel to those cooridnants and eyeball them to verify them yourself. Then you fly off and turn towards the mark. You will be jinxing as in not flying in a straight line. At some point, you will start flying in a straight line directly towards your targets and then release your gun. You are most vulnerable at this point. You have slowed down to allow your guns to do their maximum damage. After you fire, you now will maintain your low level and spool your engines up and gain as much speed as possible. After you get enough speed, you will gain as much altitude as you can until you are safely above ground fire. You will be releasing all sorts of chaff and flares to minimize hazards all through this. And your onboard jammer will be working overtime.

The problem the A-10 has, it is underpowered. It comes in just fine, flies through the the firing stage great. But when it goes to extend out (spooling up to gain speed) it does it too slow. It's vulnerable too long to ground fire. Remember, not all ground fire is either IR or Radar. Some is line of site or Mark I Eyeball. As long as it was just a bunch of rag tag fighters, the A-10 could do whatever it wished. But today, the A-10 is very vulnerable when on the deck and so is every other Air Craft. But the A-10s Gun can do a tremendous amount of damage when used at low level and sometimes, that is the best option.

NO other Aircraft can do a low level gun run like the A-10. All the others try and avoid it like the plague. Even the A-10 tries to avoid it these days. It's only used when there are no other alternatives.

Hmmm, current video seems to show otherwise. The low level gun run is still quite popular with the pilots. The rest of the videos are really long, but these short ones give a good idea. Most of what you say is of course true, but it has always been true. The A-10, and the SU-25 however were designed to fight in that very environment. Small arms fire against them is almost pointless, unless they are hit by a cannon round in a critical spot (which are all armored anyway) they are likewise able to absorb a tremendous amount of punishment before they have to leave, so that leaves MANPADS which are definitely a concern, but not nearly so dire as you make them out to be.

The fact is there are not that many around. They are mainly used against helicopters because they have a hard time getting out of their own way.

There were indeed 6 A-10's shot down during Desert Storm, one was lost to an SA-16 MANPAD, the other 5 to SA-13 or similar systems.

The first footage is at least 2 years old. How old it is no one will ever know for sure. And that footage only shows an A-10 in the Air, nothing more. The second footage, look at it closely. Now unless you can get an A-10 to suspend in mid air then it's done by an AC-130. The real giveaway is the slow counter clockwise motion. That's the orbit of the AC-130. Thank your making my points so well.

The A-10's do a Immelman to come back for the second pass so no, it wasn't a Spectre, it was an A-10. They can turn on a dime. Clearly you have not seen one in operation. The first video is from ISIS, and is from a year ago at most.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

There are some that think it's a cakewalk to do a gun run at low level for a gun run. It's not and never has been.

The flight starts out with accessing the situation. You don't just fly straight in. You talk to the ground troops, access what they have to say, get the parameters and locations from them. Then you fly parallel to those cooridnants and eyeball them to verify them yourself. Then you fly off and turn towards the mark. You will be jinxing as in not flying in a straight line. At some point, you will start flying in a straight line directly towards your targets and then release your gun. You are most vulnerable at this point. You have slowed down to allow your guns to do their maximum damage. After you fire, you now will maintain your low level and spool your engines up and gain as much speed as possible. After you get enough speed, you will gain as much altitude as you can until you are safely above ground fire. You will be releasing all sorts of chaff and flares to minimize hazards all through this. And your onboard jammer will be working overtime.

The problem the A-10 has, it is underpowered. It comes in just fine, flies through the the firing stage great. But when it goes to extend out (spooling up to gain speed) it does it too slow. It's vulnerable too long to ground fire. Remember, not all ground fire is either IR or Radar. Some is line of site or Mark I Eyeball. As long as it was just a bunch of rag tag fighters, the A-10 could do whatever it wished. But today, the A-10 is very vulnerable when on the deck and so is every other Air Craft. But the A-10s Gun can do a tremendous amount of damage when used at low level and sometimes, that is the best option.

NO other Aircraft can do a low level gun run like the A-10. All the others try and avoid it like the plague. Even the A-10 tries to avoid it these days. It's only used when there are no other alternatives.

Hmmm, current video seems to show otherwise. The low level gun run is still quite popular with the pilots. The rest of the videos are really long, but these short ones give a good idea. Most of what you say is of course true, but it has always been true. The A-10, and the SU-25 however were designed to fight in that very environment. Small arms fire against them is almost pointless, unless they are hit by a cannon round in a critical spot (which are all armored anyway) they are likewise able to absorb a tremendous amount of punishment before they have to leave, so that leaves MANPADS which are definitely a concern, but not nearly so dire as you make them out to be.

The fact is there are not that many around. They are mainly used against helicopters because they have a hard time getting out of their own way.

There were indeed 6 A-10's shot down during Desert Storm, one was lost to an SA-16 MANPAD, the other 5 to SA-13 or similar systems.

The first footage is at least 2 years old. How old it is no one will ever know for sure. And that footage only shows an A-10 in the Air, nothing more. The second footage, look at it closely. Now unless you can get an A-10 to suspend in mid air then it's done by an AC-130. The real giveaway is the slow counter clockwise motion. That's the orbit of the AC-130. Thank your making my points so well.

The A-10's do a Immelman to come back for the second pass so no, it wasn't a Spectre, it was an A-10. They can turn on a dime. Clearly you have not seen one in operation. The first video is from ISIS, and is from a year ago at most.

The first footage was posted on Youtube in the first part of 2016. You really need to do your homework. And it didn't have any other time stamp on it. It didn't show the A-10 doing anything other than flying through the sky. Hell, it could have been shot over Nellis for all we know. Or even over Disney Land.

There isn't an A-10 with the steadness of gun footage to shoot that footage of the second one. You can fly until you are blue in the face and do all the cookies in the world but that footage was shot from an AC-130 Camera in real time. It wasn't edited. They shot the truck to stop it and then zoomed in and killed it. Look closer. All the time, it's slowly moving in a counter clockwise motion. No A-10 in the world can do that and keep it's gun on target. Both are armed with a 30 mil Gatlin and do about the same damage but the AC-130 is going to do a more concentrated pattern. You forget, I spent some time on the ACs and know them well. So stop trying to blow wind up my skirts already. Unless you can repeal the laws of physics, that was an AC-130 doing the kill.

You can try and impress the kiddies but us old hands ain't so easy.

You want to see some good A-10 gun footage: