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I'm not sure if that is what the statistics reveal, or if that is what some dogooders out there are just saying it reveals. I'd have to have a much closer look, but you have no source links. I do know that I have seen many cases where assumptions are concluded from statistics in which those assumptions were loosely made.I don't know you so I can't tell whether or not this is sarcasm. What I'm saying is for the exact same crime under very similar circumstances a black man is statistically more likely to be sentenced to more time in prison than a white man. So two guys with no record commit grand theft auto, right? One of those guys was black, the other white. The black guy has a good chance of being sentenced to more time in prison even though it was the same crime.
I have no sense that I or my kids have been racially discriminated against by Affirmative Action. I've not been offered every job for which I applied; my three kids didn't gain admittance to every college to which they applied. I'm comfortable accepting that someone better suited got the job offers and school admittances. Also, whereas I've never experienced my race as being a reason why I was denied anything, I know of at least one instance where I observed a minority's being denied equal treatment/consideration because of nothing other than their race.
Having answered your question, I have one for you. Seeing as you don't think that Affirmative Action programs as they are currently implemented are the means we should use to ensure that minorities are not denied access to opportunities on the basis of their race, what do you propose as an alternative that you think will better ensure that access to opportunities is equitably apportioned to seekers of those opportunities?
In addition to the "privilege" of being discriminated against. Liberals need to know that it is Whites who are the victims of racial discrimination, not blacks. And I didn't have a TV until I was 10 (but that was in 1956).I spent the first 6 years of my life in a logging camp up 20 miles od dirt road in a tiny cabin the company provided. We didn't have a television, which would have been useless because of the location,I didn't have much in the way of toys, and didn't have any other kids to play with except my sister.
Evidently, my skin is about the only thing privileged about me, and if others would like all the skin cancer I have had due to the paleness of it and my life working outside, I would trade away my privelege most gladly.
That you have no sense of being discriminated against by AA, is quite common. AA is not a very publicized thing. The pushers of it are careful to conceal it as best they can. They even go to the extent of pretending that the questionairres are just for statistical purposes, and boldly make those claims on the quesitonnaires themselves.
Regardless of what anyone has any sense of, AA is the largest racial discrimination, against by far, the largest number of victims (males,whites and other non-blacks) in America, for over 50 years now. It continues unabated in 42 states of the US. Being comfortable accepting that someone better suited got the job offers and school admittances, is 100% naive, and you simply aren't aware of your own victimization.
You cannot say that you have never experienced your race as being a reason why you were denied anything, because in fact, you have been experiencing just that EVERY DAY that you live.....you just haven't been aware of it. You can have whatever perception you may have, but you do not have the liberty to change FACTS & HISTORY, as it exists.
I imagine that there may be a few instances of minorities being discriminated against because of their race (maybe even me - I'm 50% Hispanic), but I think in 2016, these are few and very far between. By far, the overwhelming racial discrimination is against whites from AA, and also whites being discriminated against by minorities who today hold many jobs as hiring managers.
I'm not sure if there is any way to insure that access to opportunities is equitably apportioned to job seekers (or college admissions, or college financial aid, or business loans) but certainly having rampant racial discrimination against a particular race (whites) and sex (males), is sure not the way to do it, and is a stain on the face of America, which falsely prides itself on being fair.
That said, I would also say that to compensate whites for 5 decades of white victimization of racial discrimination, whites should be paid reparations to, at least partially, compensate them for staggering losses$$ incurring over the decades of their lives. I estimate I've lost hundreds of thousands of $$, due to being denied an assistantship at my graduate school in 1977, and having been forced to drop out of the school, as were 16 other non-blacks, including some Hispanics and Asians.
I am proud to say however, that in all these years, I have never checked "Hispanic" on an AA questionnaire, as I would not lower myself to unjustly gain, by means of racially discriminating against others. Instead, I've always chosen the option to not fill out the questionnaire. I wouldn't be caught dead getting a job or loan or whatever from AA.
PS - the reparations to whites I mentioned ought to be paid by the supporters and pushers of AA, from their own personal bank accounts, not by the taxpayers.
What the F is going on here ? I answered this dumbass post 2 days ago, and now when I'm looking here, my post isn't here. Hey mods! What's up ? Where's my post ? I spent a 1/2 hour on it, now there's nothing here.I seriously doubt that it's realities are lost on me. As "old school" racists, and for all my parents' efforts to try to ensure that I don't become one, they aren't ever not going to be racist at their core, meaning they are not about to reject their connections to the racist institutions they have been part of for their whole life. A pig in a mud wallow knows he dirty, but he's comfortable there, and there is where he'll stay.
When my father maintains memberships at two exclusive (in more ways than one) clubs, and Mother at one ladies club, that as long as they have their token black, Asian and Latino, won't admit racial minorities (too, as far as I know, none has yet accepted a gay man or woman), and when I observed first hand a former friend of mine expressly deny a black guy housing solely because he was black, and when I, rather than my daughter, had to "break the news" to my parents who in turn went complete apoplectic over it -- I'm talking about 90+ year old people whom I can't tell you when was the last time they raised their voices at all, let alone in combined rage and sorrow -- that she intended to marry outside her race, it doesn't take any more for me to see that racial bias and its attendant discrimination, even today, is held and practiced by white folks for the advantage of white folks. And I'm quite aware of the ways in which discrimination manifests itself.
You and others may see discrimination as something directed on an individual level, and often enough it is, and there is probably little that can be done about that so long as folks hold dear to beliefs about their primacy due to their own race or social status. But that isn't especially what AA attempts to deal with. AA is about ensuring equality of access to opportunities for people on a class level, and that means that, yes, some individuals in the majority class will not get access to opportunity when they desire it, but as a class, the majority race is not worse off for AA's having been implemented. I think AA is the currently offered best solution attempt to ensure equity in access across classes of people. If and when something better comes along, I'd be glad to reject AA and advocate for that better alternative.
Red:
You realize you are accusing folks of lying and manipulative prevarication. Has it occurred to you that those same tactics are the tools of majority-race "DL" racists ("DL" because it's not today in vogue to be seen as an unabashed racist) who want to re-enable class level subjugation of minorities?
Blue:
Assuming that is so, please show me how whites, as a class of people and based on their race, are today missing out on opportunities as did minorities, as a class of people and based on their race, for some 200+ years in American history.
Orange:
Who paid reparations to minorities for 200 years of having been denied access to opportunities in education, housing, employment, and more, so much more that it was carried to the extent of where minorities could sit on a bus or lunch counter, that is if they were even permitted in the restaurant?
Purple:
You aren't alone as an Hispanic self-identifying as white. (Also: Opinion: Why are Hispanics identifying as white? - CNN.com) I'm not Hispanic, so I can't offer a personal viewpoint on the matter. The most I can say is that in my mind, one's race, with regard to its relevance in the U.S., comes down to one thing: what one looks like. Because racism in America is about what one looks like, people of color have long understood that they will gain access and advantages if they look white, regardless of the extent to which they are white. That's no different now than it was 100 years ago.
I'm not suggesting that any of those people actively denied their racial background or attempted to pass when it suited their aims, and whether they have isn't the point here. I'm trying to point out how (1) how silly this matter of racial labelling and "giving a damn about one's race" really is, and (2) that as interpreted in the U.S., race is just about how one looks, that if one looks white, or black or Latino, one effectively is.
- Historical Figures You Didn't Know Were Black
- 'A Chosen Exile': Black People Passing In White America
- 25 Celebrities You Didn't Know Were Black
Many Hispanics, like Marco Rubio, and unlike the vast majority of blacks, look white. Go to Argentina and you'll find a whole population of those folks; they align themselves with Italian and Spanish ancestry. Lucy and Ricky (Lucille Ball and Desi Arnaz) weren't seen as an interracial couple; they were viewed as two white folks even though Arnaz was Cuban. Why? Certainly a part of it was that televisions were black and white back then and, quite frankly, even light skinned blacks (blacks who passed the "paper bag" test) looked white on television. Another factor, however, is that most of white America didn't and still doesn't have a racial problem with seemingly Spanish (European) Hispanics; it had/has a problem with brown skinned Hispanics.
You mentioned that you are a half Hispanic. In my mind that gives you three options on those "what race are you" questions: Hispanic, white, and mixed. You check whatever box seems right to you. I don't care what box you check, and I don't think anyone other than you should. The thing is that HIspanic and white aren't mutually exclusive -- just ask a Spaniard or an Argentine. I haven't paid enough attention to those boxes, do they offer an option called "Hispanic white" to distinguish between "Hispanic non-white?" (Looking at the black folks who aren't seen as black, one has to wonder whether there should also be "black non-white" and "black lookin' white" options....)
Out of curiosity, seeing as you volunteered why you tick "white," why don't you instead tick "mixed?" Does "mixed" trigger the same AA provisions as does "Hispanic?" I don't know; I can find out, but I don't know.
Sidebar:
As an aside, I've long had "issues" with the race questions we are asked to answer:End of Sidebar.
- For employment, I don't think the question should even be asked, but I realize that for employment one must generally appear for an in person interview, so it's not as though the employer won't find out, or at least be able to make a decision about what they believe is a person's ethnicity.
- For college applications, the question doesn't really need to be asked, but the reality is that other information on an application can easily imply with a fair degree of accuracy what a person's ethnicity is. That said, some universities use in person interviews. I don't know to what extent those interviews do so today, but as per my parents, aunts and uncles, all of whom are alums of elite colleges and universities, they existed mostly to make sure "the right kind of person" gained admission. There were multiple dimensions to "right kind of person," but make no mistake, race was among them.
- There are only three human races: Mongoloid, Negroid and Caucasian. Obviously, "mixed" is something one can be, but it's not a race, but rather a mixture of races. All the other labels we assign are ethnicities and/or cultural discriminants.
- Frankly, for the purpose of AA and racial equity, the questions asked, if any, should be "do you look like you are white, black, etc?" I think that because whether one is depends more on what one looks to be than on what one is. The fact is that if one looks, for example, white, U.S. society will interact with one as though one is indeed white.
- It's just silly to me that if a person happens to have a fairly recent black ancestor, one is black, regardless of what one looks like. I was equally astounded to learn just how many ostensibly white folks have black ancestors. (The percentage is ~4% overall, I think, but in some states it's considerably higher, and either way, given the overall population size, that's still a lot of people.)
- It makes no sense to me that a person born of a black and a white parent is black.
- It makes no sense to me that a person born of Hispanic and white parents can be either Hispanic or white.
- It makes no sense to me that a person born of Asian and white parents is either Asian or white.
What is White Privilege?
No snarky one liner comments. No adhominems. I want nothing other than an legit argument on this topic so I can understand the minds of those who subscribe to this idea. For those of you who don't know what an argument is, or is not, see below.
There is no such thing as white privilege. For the past 50 years (the AFFIRMATIVE ACTION ERA), the only racial privilege in America, has been Black privilege.Its a force multiplier. Allowing someone who is white to see more results for the same effort in comparison to those who aren't white. It does nothing in competition within a racial group, though. Which means that white privileges is essentially irrelevant in the majority of citizen interactions.
This utter NONSENSE was obliterated by the post that immediately preceded it. (# 649) Maybe you don't read too well. Again, there is no such thing as white privilege. For the past 50 years (the AFFIRMATIVE ACTION ERA), the only racial privilege in America, has been Black privilege.The legacy of slavery in our country is something that has yet to be completely undone. When we refer to white privilege, we are referring to the economic and political advantage accumulated by whites through 250 years of the institution of slavery, followed by a century of Jim Crow. Yes, we have abolished slavery and instituted the Civil Rights Act (both of which were huge struggles in their own times) but we still have a great deal of work to do when it comes to justice and economic opportunity for all. Only when white privilege is recognized by everyone that all of us, of all backgrounds, have hope of creating the free society that we wish our nation to be.
The first slaves were brought to the United States in the early 1600s. With the exception of the northern states that abolished slavery earlier, slavery is abolished in 1865. That is roughly 250 years of slavery to the affirmative action era's 50 years of existence. Add Jim Crow into the equation and you get another century, so that's 350 years of overt racial oppression. All the while, slavery and Jim Crow have created a privileged class who's ancestors built their wealth through the exploitation of African-Americans. Far from being a tool of "black privilege," we need affirmative action to correct the one-sided build up that has occurred. One can only understand white privilege once they understand the history of privilege in this country.This utter NONSENSE was obliterated by the post that immediately preceded it. (# 649) Maybe you don't read too well. Again, there is no such thing as white privilege. For the past 50 years (the AFFIRMATIVE ACTION ERA), the only racial privilege in America, has been Black privilege.The legacy of slavery in our country is something that has yet to be completely undone. When we refer to white privilege, we are referring to the economic and political advantage accumulated by whites through 250 years of the institution of slavery, followed by a century of Jim Crow. Yes, we have abolished slavery and instituted the Civil Rights Act (both of which were huge struggles in their own times) but we still have a great deal of work to do when it comes to justice and economic opportunity for all. Only when white privilege is recognized by everyone that all of us, of all backgrounds, have hope of creating the free society that we wish our nation to be.
And only when this BLACK privilege is recognized by everyone that all of us, of all backgrounds, have hope of creating the free society that we wish our nation to be. Until then, we have affirmative action continuing the tradition of racial discrimination, and very few Blacks opposing it. To the contrary many, endorse it as your Post # 650 does, while having the gall to pretend that the victims of racial discrimination (Whites) are somehow enjoying some kind of privilege. I'm not sure if you're lying, or just plain out of your mind.
The first slaves were brought to the United States in the early 1600s. With the exception of the northern states that abolished slavery earlier, slavery is abolished in 1865. That is roughly 250 years of slavery to the affirmative action era's 50 years of existence. Add Jim Crow into the equation and you get another century, so that's 350 years of overt racial oppression. All the while, slavery and Jim Crow have created a privileged class who's ancestors built their wealth through the exploitation of African-Americans. Far from being a tool of "black privilege," we need affirmative action to correct the one-sided build up that has occurred. One can only understand white privilege once they understand the history of privilege in this country.
White Privilege? What About Black Privilege?
- White Privilege: A History of the Concept
- White Lies: A Critical Race Study of Power and Privilege
- To the Bone: Race and White Privilege
- White Privilege and Affirmative Action
- The Origins of “Privilege” - The New Yorker
- White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack
- Reflections on My White Privilege and Understanding It: Thoughts from a Teacher Educator
- Ten Things Everyone Should Know About White Privilege Today
- White Privilege, Quantified
- The Social Construction of Whiteness: Racism by Intent, Racism by Consequence
