CDZ What is "traditional marriage"?

[Luddly Neddite]

How marriage has changed over centuries

Has marriage always had the same definition?
Actually, the institution has been in a process of constant evolution. Pair-bonding began in the Stone Age as a way of organizing and controlling sexual conduct and providing a stable structure for child-rearing and the tasks of daily life. But that basic concept has taken many forms across different cultures and eras. "Whenever people talk about traditional marriage or traditional families, historians throw up their hands," said Steven Mintz, a history professor at Columbia University. "We say, 'When and where?'" The ancient Hebrews, for instance, engaged in polygamy — according to the Bible, King Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines — and men have taken multiple wives in cultures throughout the world, including China, Africa, and among American Mormons in the 19th century. Polygamy is still common across much of the Muslim world. The idea of marriage as a sexually exclusive, romantic union between one man and one woman is a relatively recent development. Until two centuries ago, said Harvard historian Nancy Cott, "monogamous households were a tiny, tiny portion" of the world population, found in "just Western Europe and little settlements in North America."

The idea some have that marriage is between one man and one woman is often used as a reason for denying the Constitutionally-guaranteed right to marriage quality for all Americans. Some here have even written that "one man, one woman marriage" has existed for "thousands of years". Obviously, that's not even possible.

I have often posted this graphic to illustrate the fluidity of marriage but the above linked article goes into much greater depth.

Thoughts?

 

[Delta4Embassy]

How marriage has changed over centuries

Has marriage always had the same definition?
Actually, the institution has been in a process of constant evolution. Pair-bonding began in the Stone Age as a way of organizing and controlling sexual conduct and providing a stable structure for child-rearing and the tasks of daily life. But that basic concept has taken many forms across different cultures and eras. "Whenever people talk about traditional marriage or traditional families, historians throw up their hands," said Steven Mintz, a history professor at Columbia University. "We say, 'When and where?'" The ancient Hebrews, for instance, engaged in polygamy — according to the Bible, King Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines — and men have taken multiple wives in cultures throughout the world, including China, Africa, and among American Mormons in the 19th century. Polygamy is still common across much of the Muslim world. The idea of marriage as a sexually exclusive, romantic union between one man and one woman is a relatively recent development. Until two centuries ago, said Harvard historian Nancy Cott, "monogamous households were a tiny, tiny portion" of the world population, found in "just Western Europe and little settlements in North America."

The idea some have that marriage is between one man and one woman is often used as a reason for denying the Constitutionally-guaranteed right to marriage quality for all Americans. Some here have even written that "one man, one woman marriage" has existed for "thousands of years". Obviously, that's not even possible.

I have often posted this graphic to illustrate the fluidity of marriage but the above linked article goes into much greater depth.

Thoughts?

"Traditional Greek Marriage"

- giving your 14 year-old daughter to a man as old as 30 to cement intra-family relationships.

Ya, go on, support traditional marriage.

"Marriages in ancient Greece were arranged by the parents of the intended bride and groom. A financial arrangement was made between the families in the form of a dowry. Girls married between the ages of fourteen to eighteen, while typically men married in their twenties or even thirties."
Marriages in Ancient Greece

 

[Sunni Man]

Since the beginning of time. Marriage has always been between men and women; regardless if it was monogamous or polygamous. .....

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Since the beginning of time. Marriage has always been between men and women; regardless if it was monogamous or polygamous. .....

Wrong again.

Gay 'marriage' in medieval Europe
Same-sex unions aren't a recent invention. Until the 13th century, male-bonding ceremonies were common in churches across the Mediterranean. Apart from the couples' gender, these events were almost indistinguishable from other marriages of the era. Twelfth-century liturgies for same-sex unions — also known as "spiritual brotherhoods" — included the recital of marriage prayers, the joining of hands at the altar, and a ceremonial kiss. Some historians believe these unions were merely a way to seal alliances and business deals. But Eric Berkowitz, author of Sex and Punishment, says it is "difficult to believe that these rituals did not contemplate erotic contact. In fact, it was the sex between the men involved that later caused same-sex unions to be banned." That happened in 1306, when the Byzantine Emperor Andronicus II declared such ceremonies, along with sorcery and incest, to be unchristian.

 

[Sunni Man]

Gay 'marriage' in medieval Europe
Same-sex unions aren't a recent invention. Until the 13th century, male-bonding ceremonies were common in churches across the Mediterranean. Apart from the couples' gender, these events were almost indistinguishable from other marriages of the era. Twelfth-century liturgies for same-sex unions — also known as "spiritual brotherhoods" — included the recital of marriage prayers, the joining of hands at the altar, and a ceremonial kiss. Some historians believe these unions were merely a way to seal alliances and business deals. But Eric Berkowitz, author of Sex and Punishment, says it is "difficult to believe that these rituals did not contemplate erotic contact. In fact, it was the sex between the men involved that later caused same-sex unions to be banned." That happened in 1306, when the Byzantine Emperor Andronicus II declared such ceremonies, along with sorcery and incest, to be unchristian.

Regardless of modern day homo propaganda like you just posted.

Sodomite marriage was never sanctioned by either the church or the state in any country until recently. .....

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Since the beginning of time. Marriage has always been between men and women; regardless if it was monogamous or polygamous. .....

Thanks for a post so easily refuted

"A law in the Theodosian Code (C. Th. 9.7.3) was issued in 342 AD by the Christian emperors Constantius II and Constans, which prohibited same-sex marriage in ancient Rome and ordered that those who were so married were to be executed."

"Same-sex marital practices and rituals were more recognized in Mesopotamia than in ancient Egypt. The Almanac of Incantations contained prayers favoring on an equal basis the love of a man for a woman and of a man for man."

"Among the Romans, there were instances of same-sex marriages being performed, as evidenced by emperors Nero who married an unwilling young boy"

"The Romans appear to have been the first to perform same sex marriages.

At least two of the Roman Emperors were in same-sex unions; and in fact, thirteen out of the first fourteen Roman Emperors held to be bisexual or exclusively homosexual.[25] The first Roman emperor to have married a man was Nero, who is reported to have married two other men on different occasions. First with one of his freedman, Pythagoras, to whom Nero took the role of the bride, and later as a groom Nero married a young boy to replace his young teenage concubine whom he had killed [26] named Sporus in a very public ceremony... with all the solemnities of matrimony, and lived with him as his spouse A friend gave the "bride" away "as required by law." The marriage was celebrated separately in both Greece and Rome in extravagant public ceremonies.[27] The Child Emperor Elagabalus referred to his chariot driver, a blond slave from Caria named Hierocles, as his husband.[28] He also married an athlete named Zoticus in a lavish public ceremony in Rome amidst the rejoicings of the citizens.[29]"

History of same-sex unions - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[Sunni Man]

So your main evidence is "Nero the nutcase" emperor was involved in sodomite relationships and so called marriage?

Not much of a historical precedent. .....

 

[Luddly Neddite]

So your main evidence is "Nero the nutcase" emperor was involved in sodomite relationships and so called marriage?

Not much of a historical precedent. .....

Everything you have said has been shot down with facts, leaving only mindless bigotry and the desire to meddle in the private lives of others.

 

[Sunni Man]

Everything you have said has been shot down with facts, leaving only mindless bigotry and the desire to meddle in the private lives of others.

Please be remember that you started this thread in the CDZ.

And that personal attacks are against the rules. ......

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Everything you have said has been shot down with facts, leaving only mindless bigotry and the desire to meddle in the private lives of others.

Please be remember that you started this thread in the CDZ.

And that personal attacks are against the rules. ......

No attack.

Just the facts.

By definition, bigotry is indeed mindless and the anti-America, anti-Constitution homophobes DO want to meddle in the private lives of others.

Back to my point - everything you have said has been shot down with FACTS.

 

[TheOldSchool]

Gay 'marriage' in medieval Europe
Same-sex unions aren't a recent invention. Until the 13th century, male-bonding ceremonies were common in churches across the Mediterranean. Apart from the couples' gender, these events were almost indistinguishable from other marriages of the era. Twelfth-century liturgies for same-sex unions — also known as "spiritual brotherhoods" — included the recital of marriage prayers, the joining of hands at the altar, and a ceremonial kiss. Some historians believe these unions were merely a way to seal alliances and business deals. But Eric Berkowitz, author of Sex and Punishment, says it is "difficult to believe that these rituals did not contemplate erotic contact. In fact, it was the sex between the men involved that later caused same-sex unions to be banned." That happened in 1306, when the Byzantine Emperor Andronicus II declared such ceremonies, along with sorcery and incest, to be unchristian.

Regardless of modern day homo propaganda like you just posted.

Sodomite marriage was never sanctioned by either the church or the state in any country until recently. .....

Why are you bringing up the church? The church does not write or pass laws in this country. They're a club you can belong to if you're so disposed, but they don't decide our laws.

 

[Pop23]

How marriage has changed over centuries

Has marriage always had the same definition?
Actually, the institution has been in a process of constant evolution. Pair-bonding began in the Stone Age as a way of organizing and controlling sexual conduct and providing a stable structure for child-rearing and the tasks of daily life. But that basic concept has taken many forms across different cultures and eras. "Whenever people talk about traditional marriage or traditional families, historians throw up their hands," said Steven Mintz, a history professor at Columbia University. "We say, 'When and where?'" The ancient Hebrews, for instance, engaged in polygamy — according to the Bible, King Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines — and men have taken multiple wives in cultures throughout the world, including China, Africa, and among American Mormons in the 19th century. Polygamy is still common across much of the Muslim world. The idea of marriage as a sexually exclusive, romantic union between one man and one woman is a relatively recent development. Until two centuries ago, said Harvard historian Nancy Cott, "monogamous households were a tiny, tiny portion" of the world population, found in "just Western Europe and little settlements in North America."

The idea some have that marriage is between one man and one woman is often used as a reason for denying the Constitutionally-guaranteed right to marriage quality for all Americans. Some here have even written that "one man, one woman marriage" has existed for "thousands of years". Obviously, that's not even possible.

I have often posted this graphic to illustrate the fluidity of marriage but the above linked article goes into much greater depth.

Thoughts?

One man to one woman.

Easy enough for ya?

 

[Sunni Man]

By definition, bigotry is indeed mindless and the anti-America, anti-Constitution homophobes DO want to meddle in the private lives of others.
Back to my point - everything you have said has been shot down with FACTS.

So far you haven't posted any so called FACTS.

Sorry, but the dictionary does not list "mindless" as one of the attributes of the word bigotry.

And being opposed to sodomites and the vile practice of sodomy is neither anti-American or anti-Constitutional. .....

 

[Luddly Neddite]

How marriage has changed over centuries

Has marriage always had the same definition?
Actually, the institution has been in a process of constant evolution. Pair-bonding began in the Stone Age as a way of organizing and controlling sexual conduct and providing a stable structure for child-rearing and the tasks of daily life. But that basic concept has taken many forms across different cultures and eras. "Whenever people talk about traditional marriage or traditional families, historians throw up their hands," said Steven Mintz, a history professor at Columbia University. "We say, 'When and where?'" The ancient Hebrews, for instance, engaged in polygamy — according to the Bible, King Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines — and men have taken multiple wives in cultures throughout the world, including China, Africa, and among American Mormons in the 19th century. Polygamy is still common across much of the Muslim world. The idea of marriage as a sexually exclusive, romantic union between one man and one woman is a relatively recent development. Until two centuries ago, said Harvard historian Nancy Cott, "monogamous households were a tiny, tiny portion" of the world population, found in "just Western Europe and little settlements in North America."

The idea some have that marriage is between one man and one woman is often used as a reason for denying the Constitutionally-guaranteed right to marriage quality for all Americans. Some here have even written that "one man, one woman marriage" has existed for "thousands of years". Obviously, that's not even possible.

I have often posted this graphic to illustrate the fluidity of marriage but the above linked article goes into much greater depth.

Thoughts?

One man to one woman.

Easy enough for ya?

An opinion you are more than welcome to.

But, this thread is about facts and the fact is, there is no such thing as "traditional" marriage. Further, same sex marriage is nothing new and, in fact, has been sanctioned by religion in the past.

 

[Statistikhengst]

Gay 'marriage' in medieval Europe
Same-sex unions aren't a recent invention. Until the 13th century, male-bonding ceremonies were common in churches across the Mediterranean. Apart from the couples' gender, these events were almost indistinguishable from other marriages of the era. Twelfth-century liturgies for same-sex unions — also known as "spiritual brotherhoods" — included the recital of marriage prayers, the joining of hands at the altar, and a ceremonial kiss. Some historians believe these unions were merely a way to seal alliances and business deals. But Eric Berkowitz, author of Sex and Punishment, says it is "difficult to believe that these rituals did not contemplate erotic contact. In fact, it was the sex between the men involved that later caused same-sex unions to be banned." That happened in 1306, when the Byzantine Emperor Andronicus II declared such ceremonies, along with sorcery and incest, to be unchristian.

Regardless of modern day homo propaganda like you just posted.

Sodomite marriage was never sanctioned by either the church or the state in any country until recently. .....

Uh, it was part of the Roman Empire.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

Since the issue is only relevant to the law of the US, traditional marriage would be between a man and a woman. Or women, depending upon religion. Thing is, they didn't expect the man/woman thing would need explaining so they left it out. Like needing to explain to people that socks were designed for feet.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Traditional marriage was way more than just a man and a women. It involved who owned what and who could sell what. Technically you could sell your own children in a traditional marriage and yes, that did happen right here in the USA.

Today we just sell eggs and sperm instead. There is no longer anything that resembles "traditional marriage" anymore. It vanished when women became emancipated.

 

[Mertex]

Based on the following (when blacks were finally allowed to marry each other)......it appears that our Constitution has been changing as times change....so those that are holding on to the Contitution's pronouncement that marriage must be between a man and a woman don't realize that the Constitution is still evolving. Same sex marriage will not change the meaning of my marriage or to any other man/woman marriage. It doesn't affect me. What it does is give these same-sex couples the same rights that man/woman marriages afford.

I'm sure those that were against blacks being allowed to marry had what they thought sensible and meaningful reasons, which now just sound petty and foolish.


In 1896, an American court ruling, resulting from the Plessy vs. Ferguson case, meant that African American were allowed to marry each other. However, they were still unable to marry white people. This continued until 1967, when the Loving v. Virginia case resulted in the Supreme Court, putting an end to anti-miscegenation laws across America.
What year were African Americans allowed to marry

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

Traditional marriage was way more than just a man and a women. It involved who owned what and who could sell what. Technically you could sell your own children in a traditional marriage and yes, that did happen right here in the USA.

Today we just sell eggs and sperm instead. There is no longer anything that resembles "traditional marriage" anymore. It vanished when women became emancipated.

It was always between man/woman. Again, that was an unstipulated given.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Based on the following (when blacks were finally allowed to marry each other)......it appears that our Constitution has been changing as times change....so those that are holding on to the Contitution's pronouncement that marriage must be between a man and a woman don't realize that the Constitution is still evolving. Same sex marriage will not change the meaning of my marriage or to any other man/woman marriage. It doesn't affect me. What it does is give these same-sex couples the same rights that man/woman marriages afford.

I'm sure those that were against blacks being allowed to marry had what they thought sensible and meaningful reasons, which now just sound petty and foolish.


In 1896, an American court ruling, resulting from the Plessy vs. Ferguson case, meant that African American were allowed to marry each other. However, they were still unable to marry white people. This continued until 1967, when the Loving v. Virginia case resulted in the Supreme Court, putting an end to anti-miscegenation laws across America.
What year were African Americans allowed to marry

There are still racist bigots today who are opposed to mixed race marriages. I have no doubt whatsoever that there will still be bigots opposed to gay marriages 100 years from now.