What is the best healthcare solution?

[Political Junky]

Singer payer option. Drop all health care companies.

Not even an option assuming that Single Payer is the Government. There are actually some of us who have sufficient morals and ethics that we would choose to DIE rather than taking a single penny worth of Government paid for health care.

You'd refuse Medicare? Did your parents?

 

[Anachronism]

You'd refuse Medicare? Did your parents?

I WILL, assuming I make it to 65 years old and the program still exists. My father didn't make it to 65 years of age. My mother just went on it in December, but is paying for a pretty aggressive additional insurance plan to cover what Medicare doesn't. She and I have a significant disagreement on this issue.

 

[Flopper]

Most healthcare debate usually centers on payment system, single payer or multipayer. Yet, neither private nor government insurance is the major problem. Until we do something about how healthcare is delivered we will never have affordable quality healthcare.

I couldn't disagree more. Insurance is the major driver of health care inflation and it's the number one reason why health care now costs much more than it should. It's a very simple dynamic: When people aren't paying for their own health care, they have no incentive to seek lower prices and health care providers have no incentive to offer them. Arguably, each has the opposite incentive.

Insurance is the driving force in cost increases only to the extent that it makes possible utilization. New treatments and more intensive diagnostic testing have far more impact on costs than insurance company profits and overhead. Of course if insurance were to disappear, the cost of healthcare would plummet as would the survival rate of most major diseases.

Almost a third of our healthcare dollars are spend on end of life care. People that are dying do not cost shop for the lowest cost medical care. Even if you're healthy it is very difficult to shop for the best price. Try calling a doctor and asking how much will a double bypass will cost. To get any cost estimate from a doctor, you will need an appointment and that will cost you a hundred bucks or more for each doctor you consult. When I had Prostate Cancer and ask about cost, I was told it depends on this that and the other. Pricing the cost of healthcare is not like pricing a new car. Putting the responsibility on the patent of paying for their healthcare procedures will result in patients eliminating the procedures that will save money such as yearly physicals, mammography, flu shots, and other preventive car.

Here is where we can really save not just money but lives.

1. Fight the Big Five
Common chronic conditions (including coronary artery disease, diabetes, congestive heart failure, asthma, and depression) are responsible for 75 percent of our health care spending. George Halvorson, chairman and CEO of Kaiser Foundation Health Plan and author of Health Care Reform Now! A Prescription for Change, argues that we should follow the money—and fight these diseases with all we’ve got, including early intervention and consistent follow-up care.

The payoff: If just 1 percent of people with these conditions were successfully treated, we could shave at least $77 billion off the health care tab. “Diabetes is the fastest-growing disease in America,” he says, so focusing on that alone could save billions. “Medicare can be saved if we could cut the number of people becoming diabetic in half.”

The action plan: Type 2 diabetes, in particular, is a lifestyle disease. Just a simple 30-minute walk every day, says Halvorson, could help achieve his 50 percent goal. We can all take more responsibility for our own health. Start a walking club. If you have diabetes or heart disease, follow up with your doctor and commit to a treatment plan. Learn more at fightchronicdisease.org. Need more motivation? Check out deathclock.com, suggests Rep. Jim Cooper (D-TN). It lets you see your statistical expiration date, given the risk factors of age, weight, and smoking.

2. Reduce Medical Errors by Thinking Like an Airline
Medical mistakes kill nearly 100,000 people every year, according to the Institute of Medicine. “That is equivalent to a 747 crashing every other day,” says Denis Cortese, MD, president and CEO of the Mayo Clinic. These errors, more than half of them preventable, cost the United States as much as $29 billion each year.

Dr. Cortese thinks the health care system can learn from its mistakes the way the airline industry does. If a 747 crashed here, he says, the FAA would swoop in and analyze the accident, check airplanes nationwide, and do everything possible to prevent another accident. “All employees of the airline industry are expected to report near misses and mistakes within 24 hours,” he says. “There is an investigation, people are thanked for making the report, and efforts are made to try to improve the services. In our health care system, when mistakes occur, we try to keep it as quiet as possible.” Dr. Cortese suggests a federal health care safety reporting agency using a systems engineering approach so that medical errors can be logged, studied, and addressed — without fear of punishment.

The payoff: A program like this could save lives and at least $17 billion a year.

The action plan: Find out more about the Mayo Clinic’s health care reform efforts at mayoclinic.org/healthpolicycenter. For other efforts, visit the nonprofit National Patient Safety Foundation at npsf.org.

3. Get It Right the First Time
What a waste: As much as $312 billion is frittered away each year when patients are misdiagnosed or given the wrong treatment. Best Doctors, a health benefit offered through hundreds of insurers, health plans, and companies, is one way to help.

Founded by physicians affiliated with Harvard University School of Medicine, the Boston-based company offers its members in 30 countries customized second opinions from its network of top specialists and subspecialists around the world. For example, scans of a 12-year-old girl in Maine showed tumors in her liver and one lung, an apparent relapse from the rare form of cancer she battled as a toddler, her doctors said. But when the biopsy came back negative for malignant cancer, no one knew what to do.

The girl’s father decided to try Best Doctors, a benefit offered and paid for by his employer. After top experts reviewed the girl’s scans and records, they concluded the masses in her liver were a side effect from a drug she had taken years ago, while a spot on the lung was damaged tissue from her previous surgeries. The treatment? Leave the harmless masses alone. The review helped the girl avoid further biopsies and costly invasive surgeries.

The payoff: EMC Corporation, a large technology firm in Hopkinton, Massachusetts, consulted Best Doctors on 60 cases in its first year using the program. Diagnoses were changed in 15 percent of those and treatments were modified in 85 percent, resulting in $500,000 in savings.

“If everyone got the right diagnosis and treatment the first time,” says Evan Falchuk, president of Best Doctors, “we could save tens of billions of dollars and an untold amount of unnecessary suffering and give millions of people the best chance to get well.”

The action plan: For more information, go to bestdoctors.com or ask your employer’s benefits department about a second-opinion program.

4. Pay Employees for Healthy Habits
When Safeway CEO Steve Burd discovered that 70 percent of health care costs are linked to unhealthy habits, he created incentives that sent his employees scrambling for the produce aisle. “No one quarrels with the fact that if you have three speeding tickets a year, you’re a higher risk and should pay more for auto insurance,” says the 58-year-old fitness buff. “Our new plan encourages employees to live healthier, and if they don’t, then they bear some of the costs.” Perks include lower premiums for those who lose weight or quit smoking, free or cheap gym memberships, and a $1,000 health care reimbursement check to encourage cheaper choices like generics over name-brand drugs.

The payoff: The company’s new plan has saved 13 percent so far, and employees who’ve signed up have saved 20 to 30 percent on their premiums. If other companies followed Safeway’s lead, the country could save $600 billion to $800 billion.

The action plan: Watch a video of Steve Burd at safeway.com (click on About Us), and learn more about his reform plan at coalition4healthcare.org.

5. E-Prescribe
Paper prescriptions are archaic and lead to 1.5 million injuries and 7,000 deaths each year from errors. But if every doctor got on board with an electronic Rx system, it would improve safety by making prescriptions easier to read and providing instant checks on drug interactions, dosages, and a patient’s medication history. Doctors have been slow to make the expensive switchover, but now they can get free e-prescribing software through an initiative (nationalerx.com) launched by software company Allscripts. Also, physicians can now securely trade patient health and medication history through SureScripts-RxHub, the first nationwide network for e-prescriptions. Congress is providing incentives to increase Medicare payments to doctors who e-prescribe.

The payoff: This could cut drug-related injuries by a third and save $4 billion annually.

18 Ideas to Reform Health Care Now | Reader's Digest Version

 

[dblack]

Insurance is the driving force in cost increases only to the extent that it makes possible utilization.

You're conflating the expansion of overall costs with increases in prices for the same services. Most of the factors you cite contribute to increased costs (because there's so much more health care being consumed) but they don't account for spiraling health care inflation. The perverted incentives that low-deductible health insurance injects into the health care market do.

... New treatments and more intensive diagnostic testing have far more impact on costs than insurance company profits and overhead.

It's not insurance company profits and overhead that are driving inflation. It's the damage that widespread low deductible insurance does to the market dynamic.

 

[Political Junky]

You'd refuse Medicare? Did your parents?

I WILL, assuming I make it to 65 years old and the program still exists. My father didn't make it to 65 years of age. My mother just went on it in December, but is paying for a pretty aggressive additional insurance plan to cover what Medicare doesn't. She and I have a significant disagreement on this issue.

Quote: Originally Posted by Anachronism
Quote: Originally Posted by rdean
Singer payer option. Drop all health care companies.
Not even an option assuming that Single Payer is the Government. There are actually some of us who have sufficient morals and ethics that we would choose to DIE rather than taking a single penny worth of Government paid for health care.

>

Medicare is Single Payer, and is the Government.

 

[Flopper]

Insurance is the driving force in cost increases only to the extent that it makes possible utilization.

You're conflating the expansion of overall costs with increases in prices for the same services. Most of the factors you cite contribute to increased costs (because there's so much more health care being consumed) but they don't account for spiraling health care inflation. The perverted incentives that low-deductible health insurance injects into the health care market do.

... New treatments and more intensive diagnostic testing have far more impact on costs than insurance company profits and overhead.

It's not insurance company profits and overhead that are driving inflation. It's the damage that widespread low deductible insurance does to the market dynamic.

I have argued both for and against high deductibles. A high deductible will cause patients to consider more carefully whether they should see the doctor for minor problems many of which will resolve without medical care. However, I think it will also encourage patients to bypass preventive care such as physicals, inoculations, and preventive medications which not only saves lives but saves money.

 

[auditor0007]

Singer payer option. Drop all health care companies.

Not even an option assuming that Single Payer is the Government. There are actually some of us who have sufficient morals and ethics that we would choose to DIE rather than taking a single penny worth of Government paid for health care.

That may be the case, but the fact is simple; if costs do not come down and the continue to grow at their current pace, healthcare will take up such a big portion of GDP that there will be no other choice than to move to a single payer system. You can argue about that all you want, but it will happen if costs are not curbed significantly.

 

[auditor0007]

Insurance is the driving force in cost increases only to the extent that it makes possible utilization.

You're conflating the expansion of overall costs with increases in prices for the same services. Most of the factors you cite contribute to increased costs (because there's so much more health care being consumed) but they don't account for spiraling health care inflation. The perverted incentives that low-deductible health insurance injects into the health care market do.

... New treatments and more intensive diagnostic testing have far more impact on costs than insurance company profits and overhead.

It's not insurance company profits and overhead that are driving inflation. It's the damage that widespread low deductible insurance does to the market dynamic.

There is much more too it than just that. From every angle we can find things that are driving up the cost. Many times new treatments or technologies become available that are only needed by the very few. In order to pay for those technologies, the price skyrockets because only a few people need it. And then if hospital A has it, of course hospitals B, C, D, E, and F, must also have it, even if they only use it for one or two patients per year.

 

[Jessica Blume]

Give us your ideas and proof they work

We pay over 57.7% of our income in tax that goes to pay off our national debt, for the most part, or for entitlements that do not work.

If we could keep the money we made instead of having it stolen from us, we could pay our own way and take care of ourselves.

 

[editec]

I think single-payer univeseral HC is the best solution.

And that will cause enormous problems, too, of course.

There is NO perfect solution to the HC crises.

 

[Sallow]

I expect people to do what people have done for thousands of years.... DIE, and rid the world of the surpluss population which serves no useful purpose. Just as that Cancer diagnosis would only cost me about $0.12 to deal with, as I explained above. The whole idea that ANYONE should be propped up by the public dole is absolutely disgusting in my mind. Whether they're 12 weeks old, 12 years old, 30, 50, 80, etc....

And this is kinda the way I think most conservatives feel about people. Least this guy is honest about it.

 

[Sallow]

Give us your ideas and proof they work

We pay over 57.7% of our income in tax that goes to pay off our national debt, for the most part, or for entitlements that do not work.

If we could keep the money we made instead of having it stolen from us, we could pay our own way and take care of ourselves.

Because this works so well..where and when exactly?

Catastrophic illness generally overwhelm the finances of most families very quickly.

 

[dblack]

From every angle we can find things that are driving up the cost.

Again, there's an important distinction between overall costs and inflated prices. For most of us, what matters isn't the percentage of GDP being spent on health care. What matters is that the same health care now costs us twice as much as it did ten years ago. Research on new technology and services, in almost every other industry, tends to reduce the prices of the routine basic services. Yet we don't see that in health care.

Prices continue to rise, even for routine services that we can deliver more efficiently, more cost-effectively, than ever before. The market dynamic is broken. When customers don't care how much something costs, that price will go up. There's no way around that.

 

[Anachronism]

Medicare is Single Payer, and is the Government.

True. That's why I won't have anything to do with it, PJ.

That may be the case, but the fact is simple; if costs do not come down and the continue to grow at their current pace, healthcare will take up such a big portion of GDP that there will be no other choice than to move to a single payer system. You can argue about that all you want, but it will happen if costs are not curbed significantly.

Whether it happens or not is of little concern to me, auditor. I would suggest that you're right and it will happen. At that point in time I will cease to have anything to do with the medical community if I can't or am not allowed to pay cash for those services, because I WILL NOT take Government healthcare UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. PERIOD.

 

[editec]

From every angle we can find things that are driving up the cost.

Again, there's an important distinction between overall costs and inflated prices. For most of us, what matters isn't the percentage of GDP being spent on health care. What matters is that the same health care now costs us twice as much as it did ten years ago. Research on new technology and services, in almost every other industry, tends to reduce the prices of the routine basic services. Yet we don't see that in health care.

Prices continue to rise, even for routine services that we can deliver more efficiently, more cost-effectively, than ever before. The market dynamic is broken. When customers don't care how much something costs, that price will go up. There's no way around that.

You hit on the REAL nature of the problem, I think.

Health care economics does NOT work in the way that most of us assume that economics tends to work.

Health care is NOT widgets, folks.

A customer might see that the cost of widgets is too high and eschew buying one.

But damned few people will elect to DIE rather than spending the money to stay alive oer to get that leg set or whatever.

Additionally, the consumer is NOT the decider of what HC they will receive, either.

The Doctor (and third party payer) are the DECIDERS.

Now imagine that you needed a car and the CAR SALESMAN decided what kind of car yuou were going to get, but you didn't care what he decided or how much it cost because you were NOT paying for it anyway.

Do you think the cost of autos would go up if that were the case?

Hell yes! they would, and a LOT faster in relative terms than most anything else you bought.

Well?

Is that how HC purchasing decisions are RELLY being made?

Well?

Isnt it?

 

[Gadawg73]

The best part is that people like this will go as far as to agree with insurance companies doing everything they can to avoid covering those who are a higher risk, just so it keeps their costs down.

It's a business. Medical Insurance Companies are not in the business of making people better. That's what Doctors and Hospitals are in the business of. Medical Insurance Companies are in the business of providing Insurance to cover the cost of those services. Would you expect an automobile insurer to write a policy for a driver with 5 at fault accidents and 3 speeding tickets in the last 18 months?

I had health insurance in Colorado. It was a private plan since I am self-employed. Due to personal reasons, I had to move to Ohio. Because I had a pre-existing condition, I was denied coverage in Ohio, even by the same company that insured me in Colorado. I was with Anthem, and while Anthem of Colorado and Anthem Ohio are separate companies, they share the same parent company, Wellpointe.

But I can see how I such an irresponsible person since I didn't continue to live in Colorado where I could have kept my health insurance. I was personally responsible, and the insurance companies fucked me in the ass. When it comes to my situation, and many others like me, it has nothing to do with personal responsibility. It has to do with a system that is stacked against anyone who may become ill and has zip to do with personal responsibility. People like you live in a fantasy world where every problem has a simple minded solution. Unfortunately, in the real world, those simple minded solutions don't work very often.

The simple minded solution I advocate is to not use the insurance company in situations like that, and the one that I could someday find myself in. The solution is called CASH.

What other business receives bills for the same services that fluctuate for the same service by 1000%?
My son had ACL surgery from a football injury. When he needed one of the scans the doctor told him to go to A clinic. Their fee was $7K. There is another clinic that does it for $700. Of course the surgeon wanted the 7K clinic and would not accept the results if my son would have gone to the other clinic. The orthopaedic group owns that clinic of course.
When an insurance company settles an auto accident property claim does the price for an
'08 Honda fluctuate between $10,000 and $100,000 for the same car with the same mileage and same condition?
That is how the medical industry ALWAYS operates.
Believe me, trust me as I am an owner of 3 businesses and a strict fiscal conservative:
The insurance model is terrible and has to be changed for us to have a chance to compete.
Group health care and insurance companies running this show have run the prices up as NO free market principles exist in this market.

 

[sparky]

i hope one day karma comes back to bite you in the ass when an administrator has to tell you that you need are not covered by a life saving procedure and are required to pay for the procedure up front to the tune of $250k or too bad so sad.

I already have my cancer cure, my paralysis cure, etc..... put aside. It's 230 grains of .45ACP Jacketed Hollowpoint. One round, with my initials etched into the brass of the casing. It's specially put aside already. That one pill, right up under the chin with a slight rearward cant of the muzzle fixes everything in a split second.

you already agreed that if someone can not afford to pay for health care they die as a result it is their own fault they couldnt pay. hence a human life is less important than money. your view could not be more clear. no one chooses to get cancer, or get hit by a car, or have a stroke. yet by your logic its your responsibility to see this coming and plan accordingly.

It is your responsibility to attempt to prepare for as many potentials as possible. I just explained my preparation above. It is my belief that should those problems come about that family, friends, and the community are where one should turn for assistance, not to the Government (State, Local, or Federal). That's why I won't take Government aid. No welfare. No unemployment. No Social Security. No Medicare. NOTHING. I would rather die.

You also have to remember that my spiritual beliefs center around the idea of FATE more than free choice when it comes to a lot of these things.

While i can appreciate libertarians who stick to their guns , i would wager that the majority wouldn't want to exist in libertopia

even Ayn Rand bailed toward the end....

 

[editec]

And prove that it works?

Kind of a tall order, don't you think?