What is really the culprit of our economy

May 15, 2010
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Hello to All:

I am a retired Sgt. Major of 28 years and have pretty much seen it all on both sides of the political spectrum and have come to the conclusion that both are seriously flawed pretty much to the point of no return. This includes liberals and conservatives. Neither can work effectively in our current political and economic state. As a matter of fact, conservative and liberal policies have had their chances over the past 50 years or so, and both have failed miserably in so many ways. I am sure that I have your attention now and you are wondering how I came to this conclusion. I ask you to please keep in mind that I have served my country to the best of my ability pretty much most of my life in that my father was a veteran of 37 years of military service that included time WWII in Africa, Italy, UK, France, and Germany as a 17-19 year old teen. He also was in Korea and Japan, during the Korean Conflict. Lastly, he spent time in South Vietnam; the worst of which he spoke of. I have an older brother that retired from the Navy with 20 years of service. So when I speak of the military, I do so with respect and even more important, with full honesty.
With the election of President Obama, a lot of groups came out of the wood-work of which some are radically conservative as well as some fringe liberal groups. You ask me where I fit in. After 28 plus years of service to my country, I feel that I am capable of objectively studying both sides of the political realm and pick the good that both sides have to offer. I consider myself a very solid middle of the road with a very, very slight tilt to the left. Some say that if you are in the middle of road, you will be trampled by both sides. I disagree with the concept, and fully believe that if the middle ground is high enough, you can comfortably sit back and watch the two sides destroy each other.

There are accusations the Pres. Obama wants to turn this nation into a pure socialist type of government. This is a ridiculous in so many ways. Also, some groups consider Obama to be the reincarnation Hitler. This is about as far away from the truth as you can get in a 180 degree turn. Hitler was an extreme right wing dictator that hated left wing governments and their leaders with a passion. Socialism has existed in our country for many decades with both good and bad results such as Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security and many more. These programs have helped far more people than any other government type of programs that includes tax cuts. I would guess that at least 75% or greater of tax paying citizens of this country love having tax cuts including myself. Do these help? That is the question that deserves that deserves close scrutiny. Both President Bush (W), and President Obama have attempted these of which each resulting with minimal short-term results.

Since NAFTA, along with the granting of China becoming a favored trade nation, jobs in the USA have packed up and moved to the greener pastures of China, India, Mexico and many others. The loss of jobs due to these policies is nothing less than astronomical. We have a problem that is much worse than many realize. In fact, we may have already past the point of no return with being able to correct this massive problem. I have an extensive background in the economics of free enterprise systems. On paper, this concept is nothing short of great. Unfortunately, our business world has abused our system for many years, resulting in what we now have. Neither the left, right, nor middle care too much for what we now have. The big question now, is what in the hell can we do about it?

If our leaders could come to a concession changing the way we operate, we might have a decent chance with coming up with a solution that both sides can agree on. OK, after a quick slap in the face, I realize that this would be unlikely at its best attempt to do so. With regard to the "Tea Party" concept, I think it has some merit, but its negatives far out way its positives. I would dare to guess that about 75% or greater of the people involved with this concept are those that consider themselves to be "true patriots", but not the type of a Thomas Jefferson or George Washington. Many in the Tea Party movement are those that prefer to have an arsenal of weapons and rations in order to be ready when the government falls and we are all left on our own. My prayers are that common sense will eventually rule the day for us all.

On a last note, we need to closely examine how we can get a handle on what our country does with the money that we invest in it via taxes. As I have stated earlier, my family including myself, have served our country to the best we now how it. The problem that I am referring to is the enormous amount of our tax dollars that keep our military machine purging onward. The percentage of the federal budge that goes towards the military is a whopping 38%!.....Yes, 38%. Some of you may say that it is all needed to fight our wars. I have talked extensively with friends that have retired or are still serving in the military. A Brigadier General, who is a close friend and is set to retire this coming August, has confided in me about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and how this should come to a quick end ASAP. In discussion with some of my military friends that have and are serving in Iraq and Afghanistan, the opinion is that there never were any WMDs in Iraq as proposed by the Bush administration when we entered in "Iraqi Freedom". This war had absolutely nothing to do with 9-11-01. "W' wanted to finish what pops started in "Desert Storm". This war is absolutely unnecessary and has blown hole in our federal budget that we may never recover from until many years down the road. Also, the war in Afghanistan may wind up costing twice the cost of Iraqi Freedom. As much as most people hated Bill Clinton, you have to give him a tip of the hat in that his administration managed to put the federal budget in the black of which had not happened in many decades. If we could get a handle on defense spending, we could very well fund a national health insurance program. I think I just heard a pin drop with the silence I am is all around me now!

Just mention National Health Care, and you can start a war of words and unfortunately a war of guns and other devices of harm. Being in the military and now receiving my retirement benefits, I have been a member of the largest socialized program in the entire history of mankind. Yes, the military is the largest socialized program in the entire world. I see only minimal differences in what President Obama is proposing for are not fortunate enough to have any kind of health benefits. A friend of the family lost his job due to a company's downsizing and eventual relocation to Mexico. He had been with that company for 36 years. Not only did he lose his job, he had to pay $1200.00 per month for COBRA of which he could not afford. Kendell had been looking for a job going on 2 years and has since lost his home, his wife and other things that were precious to him. He sent out over 600 resumes and has interviewed for 59 jobs. The companies like him, but do not want to hire someone who is 61 years old. Kendell developed cancer of the Pancreas and died 6 months later and died an excruciating and lonely death. I have no doubt that there are thousands and possibly millions of “Kendells” out there of which some could have had their life saved if they had access to the kind of treatment that could give them a fighting chance to have their life saved.

Yes, the answer to solving some of our countries problems go much futher than tea parties and knee jerk conservative ideology along with bleeding heart liberal agenda. It will take a combination of common sense, compassion, and most important, non-biased honesty to make it happen. This country is all of ours; not just fringe elements of society on both the right and left.

Doc
 
Hello to All:

I am a retired Sgt. Major of 28 years and have pretty much seen it all on both sides of the political spectrum and have come to the conclusion that both are seriously flawed pretty much to the point of no return. This includes liberals and conservatives. Neither can work effectively in our current political and economic state. As a matter of fact, conservative and liberal policies have had their chances over the past 50 years or so, and both have failed miserably in so many ways. I am sure that I have your attention now and you are wondering how I came to this conclusion. I ask you to please keep in mind that I have served my country to the best of my ability pretty much most of my life in that my father was a veteran of 37 years of military service that included time WWII in Africa, Italy, UK, France, and Germany as a 17-19 year old teen. He also was in Korea and Japan, during the Korean Conflict. Lastly, he spent time in South Vietnam; the worst of which he spoke of. I have an older brother that retired from the Navy with 20 years of service. So when I speak of the military, I do so with respect and even more important, with full honesty.
With the election of President Obama, a lot of groups came out of the wood-work of which some are radically conservative as well as some fringe liberal groups. You ask me where I fit in. After 28 plus years of service to my country, I feel that I am capable of objectively studying both sides of the political realm and pick the good that both sides have to offer. I consider myself a very solid middle of the road with a very, very slight tilt to the left. Some say that if you are in the middle of road, you will be trampled by both sides. I disagree with the concept, and fully believe that if the middle ground is high enough, you can comfortably sit back and watch the two sides destroy each other.

There are accusations the Pres. Obama wants to turn this nation into a pure socialist type of government. This is a ridiculous in so many ways. Also, some groups consider Obama to be the reincarnation Hitler. This is about as far away from the truth as you can get in a 180 degree turn. Hitler was an extreme right wing dictator that hated left wing governments and their leaders with a passion. Socialism has existed in our country for many decades with both good and bad results such as Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security and many more. These programs have helped far more people than any other government type of programs that includes tax cuts. I would guess that at least 75% or greater of tax paying citizens of this country love having tax cuts including myself. Do these help? That is the question that deserves that deserves close scrutiny. Both President Bush (W), and President Obama have attempted these of which each resulting with minimal short-term results.

Since NAFTA, along with the granting of China becoming a favored trade nation, jobs in the USA have packed up and moved to the greener pastures of China, India, Mexico and many others. The loss of jobs due to these policies is nothing less than astronomical. We have a problem that is much worse than many realize. In fact, we may have already past the point of no return with being able to correct this massive problem. I have an extensive background in the economics of free enterprise systems. On paper, this concept is nothing short of great. Unfortunately, our business world has abused our system for many years, resulting in what we now have. Neither the left, right, nor middle care too much for what we now have. The big question now, is what in the hell can we do about it?

If our leaders could come to a concession changing the way we operate, we might have a decent chance with coming up with a solution that both sides can agree on. OK, after a quick slap in the face, I realize that this would be unlikely at its best attempt to do so. With regard to the "Tea Party" concept, I think it has some merit, but its negatives far out way its positives. I would dare to guess that about 75% or greater of the people involved with this concept are those that consider themselves to be "true patriots", but not the type of a Thomas Jefferson or George Washington. Many in the Tea Party movement are those that prefer to have an arsenal of weapons and rations in order to be ready when the government falls and we are all left on our own. My prayers are that common sense will eventually rule the day for us all.

On a last note, we need to closely examine how we can get a handle on what our country does with the money that we invest in it via taxes. As I have stated earlier, my family including myself, have served our country to the best we now how it. The problem that I am referring to is the enormous amount of our tax dollars that keep our military machine purging onward. The percentage of the federal budge that goes towards the military is a whopping 38%!.....Yes, 38%. Some of you may say that it is all needed to fight our wars. I have talked extensively with friends that have retired or are still serving in the military. A Brigadier General, who is a close friend and is set to retire this coming August, has confided in me about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and how this should come to a quick end ASAP. In discussion with some of my military friends that have and are serving in Iraq and Afghanistan, the opinion is that there never were any WMDs in Iraq as proposed by the Bush administration when we entered in "Iraqi Freedom". This war had absolutely nothing to do with 9-11-01. "W' wanted to finish what pops started in "Desert Storm". This war is absolutely unnecessary and has blown hole in our federal budget that we may never recover from until many years down the road. Also, the war in Afghanistan may wind up costing twice the cost of Iraqi Freedom. As much as most people hated Bill Clinton, you have to give him a tip of the hat in that his administration managed to put the federal budget in the black of which had not happened in many decades. If we could get a handle on defense spending, we could very well fund a national health insurance program. I think I just heard a pin drop with the silence I am is all around me now!

Just mention National Health Care, and you can start a war of words and unfortunately a war of guns and other devices of harm. Being in the military and now receiving my retirement benefits, I have been a member of the largest socialized program in the entire history of mankind. Yes, the military is the largest socialized program in the entire world. I see only minimal differences in what President Obama is proposing for are not fortunate enough to have any kind of health benefits. A friend of the family lost his job due to a company's downsizing and eventual relocation to Mexico. He had been with that company for 36 years. Not only did he lose his job, he had to pay $1200.00 per month for COBRA of which he could not afford. Kendell had been looking for a job going on 2 years and has since lost his home, his wife and other things that were precious to him. He sent out over 600 resumes and has interviewed for 59 jobs. The companies like him, but do not want to hire someone who is 61 years old. Kendell developed cancer of the Pancreas and died 6 months later and died an excruciating and lonely death. I have no doubt that there are thousands and possibly millions of “Kendells” out there of which some could have had their life saved if they had access to the kind of treatment that could give them a fighting chance to have their life saved.

Yes, the answer to solving some of our countries problems go much futher than tea parties and knee jerk conservative ideology along with bleeding heart liberal agenda. It will take a combination of common sense, compassion, and most important, non-biased honesty to make it happen. This country is all of ours; not just fringe elements of society on both the right and left.

Doc

Good thoughts, doc, but I'm afraid it won't get much attention in the intro section. You should post it under POLITICS or GENERAL DISCUSSION, and I'm sure you'll get a lot of feedback.

As much as I disagree with a lot of the ideologues who make a lot of noise, I'm genuinely glad to see that more Americans are strongly interested in what takes place outside their neat little boundaries and are beginning to understand how it all ties together, the first recognition usually being that neither traditional party has all the correct answers.
 
:welcome:

Try not to be so verbose the next time you introduce yourself.

My name is asaratis. I am an asshole!

There is an example.
 
:welcome: 2 USMB and Thanks for your Service.
I guess a short answer I would give to your question:

What is really the culprit of our economy? We are......:D
Enjoy my friend.
 
Doc YOU ROCK!

I look forward to more of you right to the point and intelligent posts.

They call me a bleeding heart liberal here but I found next to nothing in your post to disagree with.

I'm for common sense ideas that will work.

Welcome
 
Welcome to USMB.

While I thank you and your father both for your military service, I can't say I totally agree with some statements you made. On the other hand, you seem to be able to post your opinions with a level head.

I do have one question - considering some of the hardship tours and the stress they can put on families, the sacrifices, the wounded and above all else, the lives lost and blood spilled for the sake of protecting this country - do you not think service men and women deserve some kind of consideration? It's not like they're sitting on their asses and collecting welfare - they're working ... and in my opinion at this time in our history ... they are working for pretty much a thankless nation.

I salute all our military people, past and present, for what they have done to guarantee my freedoms. I don't take it lightly. And there's a place in my heart for those on USMB who are thankful.

Look forward to debating with you.
 
Basing the Unit of exchange on nothing more than confidence, then printing more and more $ that are just ink on paper with no real value
 
I have the answers you won't find anywhere else.

1. Collision of technology and population. This has nothing to do with repubs and dems, the sheeple seem to think it does, but they are just ignorant.

Since there was a humanoid, intelligence has produced technology advances that have made work more efficient. The wheel, fire, metal tools, harnessing water flow, etc. What changes is the PACE of technology advance and it is always accelerating. Ultimately this will produce a problem, how do we employ the masses? The problem will occur at some technology and population tipping point. A hundred years ago, it took 20 people in agriculture to feed the other 80 in a sample of 100. Today it takes 1 person to feed the other 99, due to pesticides, fertilizer, mechanized harvesters, and hybrid crops. Folks left the farm for the assembly line, and that worked for a while, until robots and computers took over. Now many assembly line jobs are ending. Half the population is above average in intelligence and half in below. The half that is below average in intelligence used to have a good supply of low tech jobs, and they are disappearing. Population continues to grow. We have people we don't need in order to produce all of the goods and services the world needs. We will either take care of the bottom half, or let the starve out in the cold.

Second, we have a world imbalance caused by the entry of 2 economies from the 19th century into the 21st century in pretty quick pace, like 20 years, and those are China and India, which together account for 1/3 of the worlds population. They have wage rates in manufacturing that are 5-10% of the US wage, because they are so far behind. They are catching up in technology much faster than their wages are rising, giving them a temporary (maybe 20 years) advantage until the system which has been upset begins to stabilize.

We can talk about tax rates, interest rates and deficits, and in a steady state economy like the 60's and 70's that was the drivers. But the entire system has changed, it is not steady state, it is in extreme flux from those two primary drivers, and folks act like they don't understand the new system. Everyone proposes the solutions that worked 60 years ago, but we don't have the system they worked on 60 years ago.

We need to slow population growth, since we don't need to many unskilled workers. We will not slow technology progress.

The China and India situation will just have to equalize itself (maybe we need some fair trade instead of so much free trade).
 
Basing the Unit of exchange on nothing more than confidence, then printing more and more $ that are just ink on paper with no real value

Two errors in your post.

One, we are not printing more and more money. We print enough so that the usage of the paper bills is not hampered.

Two, we do not value the money on confidence. It is valued on productivity. The productive countries always have currency that is valued even though it is not backed by Silver, Gold, Diamonds or Oil. The whole world runs on this system. China the second most productive country lives in fear that the US dollar will fall in value and then the US products would outsell the Chinese, so they value their currency to the US Dollar. Why? Because of our productivity.

Now, what we need is a president who puts the people back to work producing.
 
Doc YOU ROCK!

I look forward to more of you right to the point and intelligent posts.

They call me a bleeding heart liberal here but I found next to nothing in your post to disagree with.

I'm for common sense ideas that will work.

Welcome

No one here thinks you're a bleeding heart liberal, we think your a rabid, koolaid drinking, leftie who is incapable of critical thought.

One thing we agree on. The OP makes some really good points.
 
I have the answers you won't find anywhere else.

1. Collision of technology and population. This has nothing to do with repubs and dems, the sheeple seem to think it does, but they are just ignorant.

Since there was a humanoid, intelligence has produced technology advances that have made work more efficient. The wheel, fire, metal tools, harnessing water flow, etc. What changes is the PACE of technology advance and it is always accelerating. Ultimately this will produce a problem, how do we employ the masses? The problem will occur at some technology and population tipping point. A hundred years ago, it took 20 people in agriculture to feed the other 80 in a sample of 100. Today it takes 1 person to feed the other 99, due to pesticides, fertilizer, mechanized harvesters, and hybrid crops. Folks left the farm for the assembly line, and that worked for a while, until robots and computers took over. Now many assembly line jobs are ending. Half the population is above average in intelligence and half in below. The half that is below average in intelligence used to have a good supply of low tech jobs, and they are disappearing. Population continues to grow. We have people we don't need in order to produce all of the goods and services the world needs. We will either take care of the bottom half, or let the starve out in the cold.

Second, we have a world imbalance caused by the entry of 2 economies from the 19th century into the 21st century in pretty quick pace, like 20 years, and those are China and India, which together account for 1/3 of the worlds population. They have wage rates in manufacturing that are 5-10% of the US wage, because they are so far behind. They are catching up in technology much faster than their wages are rising, giving them a temporary (maybe 20 years) advantage until the system which has been upset begins to stabilize.

We can talk about tax rates, interest rates and deficits, and in a steady state economy like the 60's and 70's that was the drivers. But the entire system has changed, it is not steady state, it is in extreme flux from those two primary drivers, and folks act like they don't understand the new system. Everyone proposes the solutions that worked 60 years ago, but we don't have the system they worked on 60 years ago.

We need to slow population growth, since we don't need to many unskilled workers. We will not slow technology progress.

The China and India situation will just have to equalize itself (maybe we need some fair trade instead of so much free trade).

Very interesting post.

I agree many do not understand that technology will eventually make many people obsolete.

I agree we need to encourage population control.

We also need to realise that leaving a place in our planned society to employee these people even when technology could do the job cheaper.

Cheaper should not be the end all be all search for mankind.

Quaility of life and human dignity should be the guiding light.

Life ,liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Our founders understood this.
 
Hello to All:

...As a matter of fact, conservative and liberal policies have had their chances over the past 50 years or so, and both have failed miserably in so many ways.

...After 28 plus years of service to my country, I feel that I am capable of objectively studying both sides of the political realm and pick the good that both sides have to offer. I consider myself a very solid middle of the road with a very, very slight tilt to the left.

...There are accusations the Pres. Obama wants to turn this nation into a pure socialist type of government. This is a ridiculous in so many ways. Also, some groups consider Obama to be the reincarnation Hitler. This is about as far away from the truth as you can get in a 180 degree turn. Hitler was an extreme right wing dictator

Since NAFTA, along with the granting of China becoming a favored trade nation, jobs in the USA have packed up and moved to the greener pastures of China, India, Mexico and many others.
...If our leaders could come to a concession changing the way we operate, we might have a decent chance with coming up with a solution that both sides can agree on.

...On a last note, we need to closely examine how we can get a handle on what our country does with the money that we invest in it via taxes. As I have stated earlier, my family including myself, have served our country to the best we now how it. The problem that I am referring to is the enormous amount of our tax dollars that keep our military machine purging onward. The percentage of the federal budge that goes towards the military is a whopping 38%!.....
...Yes, the answer to solving some of our countries problems go much futher than tea parties and knee jerk conservative ideology along with bleeding heart liberal agenda. It will take a combination of common sense, compassion, and most important, non-biased honesty to make it happen. This country is all of ours; not just fringe elements of society on both the right and left.

Doc

You are very idealistic, but have a great many faults in understanding.

First and foremost, our system is the greatest in the world, but it needs to be tweeked some to get it moving again without all of the social welfare baggage that we have acquired in the past hundred years. It just needs to be purged of thieves and lazy suckers on the teat of government. We need to kill the thieves instead of putting them in luxury hotels for most of their lives. Firing squads are very efficient. We have too many welfare (now social security) mothers who are breeding a vast race of retards in our inner cities. We need to sterilize them as soon as they go on Social Security because of their retardation. It would help to sterilize all the retards so they do not breed more and more and more stupid people who can not hold jobs in our modern society.

Hitler was a Socialist. He promised to put the people to work and that is exactly what he did. Poof! no more Depression while the rest of the world was languishing in unemployment.

We did not need to fight wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. For one tenth of the cost, we could have invited others to politically dominate those countries. I agree with you. We need to get the fug out of wars in Asia. We should have learned our lesson in Viet Nam and before that Korea. We can not win in Asia and we need to use other means to effect regime change that produces friendlier governments.

Like Hitler, we need to put people back to work. Somehow, under this idiot Obama, this government does not see that as a governmental responsibility. Obama is a crook and he is tied up with the Goldman Sachs gang. That gang needs to be destroyed. The sooner the better. Goldman has owned Obama for the past six years. We need a president who is above corruption. Biden a well known plagiarist is as bad as Obama, so don't think in terms of just removing the president. We need somebody who knows that we need to create jobs.

I have a program and am playfully running for president, but I am not campaigning because I realize it is a lost cause. Big money runs things in Washington right now. It will take a revolution to get them out of control.
 
Economically speaking.. What killed the Roman Republic?

I ask this because the same sort of complex interaction between government, the military and big capital that killed the Roman Republic seems to be killing the American Republic.

Know that duing the period of the Roman REPUBLIC, the majority of people serving in the legions came from the peasant FARMING class of Italy.

But as the classism of the Republic gave the equian classes access to slaves, and granted then enormous advantages in the law (and hence in the way business and debt was) was done, the ROMAN working classes were systematically stripped of their land.

EVentually most business was done by the upper crust of the Republic. And they didn't HIRE citizens, they used SLAVE LABOR.

Now here in the USA, our coporations that hired our fathers to make them rich, no longer need US to work for them,.

They have SLAVE LABOR in third world countries to do their bidding for them,

Seeing the pararrels here, are we?

And once the Roman REPUBLIC no longer needed the Roman citizens, the ROMAN EMPIRE was built with A MERCENARY MILITARY.

You see the people were no longer needed by the gentry class.

They had slaves to create wealth, and mercenaries to bring them more slaves.

And guess what happened next?

ROME became an IMPORTING DEPENDENT nation.

Sounding familiar?

I hope so.

History...don't enter into political disucssion uunless you understand enough of it to understand what is happening today.
 

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