What is really killing the A-10 Off

[Daryl Hunt]

High Air Frame Time (you can't replace the Air Frame without building a brand new Aircraft

The Assembly line was not only dismantled but scrapped. Even if you could put together the same folks (these folks would be in their late 50s and 60s) without the jigs and such you can't build a single A-10 without some serious bucks.

Yes, they are scheduled to be rewinged but rewinging doesn't replace or upgrade the Air Frame.

The A-10 has been rode hard and put away wet unlike any other bird in the inventory today. And there are cheaper ways to do the same job that are being considered right now. The Brrrrt that keeps coming up, the 30 mm on the A-10 is doing the job that either a 20mm vulcan or a 50 cal chain gun can do as well.

You can't change facts replacing them with good thoughts alone.

 

[william the wie]

Sounds right to me but outside of my circle of competence. Why not replace it with a big drone?

 

[ABikerSailor]

Considering that they are a very tough airframe and are capable of coming back safely even if there are big holes in the wings.

And then..............there's the little matter of the titanium bathtub that protects the pilot.

Sorry, but for CAS (Close Air Support), I don't think you can beat it. Yeah, you can send in a drone, but there is no substitute for having actual eyes on the battle field, not looking through a black and white video feed.

 

[Ringel05]

High Air Frame Time (you can't replace the Air Frame without building a brand new Aircraft

The Assembly line was not only dismantled but scrapped. Even if you could put together the same folks (these folks would be in their late 50s and 60s) without the jigs and such you can't build a single A-10 without some serious bucks.

Yes, they are scheduled to be rewinged but rewinging doesn't replace or upgrade the Air Frame.

The A-10 has been rode hard and put away wet unlike any other bird in the inventory today. And there are cheaper ways to do the same job that are being considered right now. The Brrrrt that keeps coming up, the 30 mm on the A-10 is doing the job that either a 20mm vulcan or a 50 cal chain gun can do as well.

You can't change facts replacing them with good thoughts alone.

Tell us where the A-10 touched you......... There is a doll where you can show us if that's more comfortable for you.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Besides, I think that the A-10 is one of the only aircraft that is capable of killing tanks with their chain gun.

 

[eagle1462010]

Anything that could be built once could be built again............assembly lines could be redone with more modern technology as well. The A10 is a killing machine and is tough as hell in ground support.

Given the conflicts are against smaller groups with low tech weapons, it could easily be benefit us for decades.

 

[westwall]

High Air Frame Time (you can't replace the Air Frame without building a brand new Aircraft

The Assembly line was not only dismantled but scrapped. Even if you could put together the same folks (these folks would be in their late 50s and 60s) without the jigs and such you can't build a single A-10 without some serious bucks.

Yes, they are scheduled to be rewinged but rewinging doesn't replace or upgrade the Air Frame.

The A-10 has been rode hard and put away wet unlike any other bird in the inventory today. And there are cheaper ways to do the same job that are being considered right now. The Brrrrt that keeps coming up, the 30 mm on the A-10 is doing the job that either a 20mm vulcan or a 50 cal chain gun can do as well.

You can't change facts replacing them with good thoughts alone.

Production tooling can be rebuilt, for less, with the new CNC and CAD machinery. The 30mm is orders of magnitude more capable than any 20mm round in existence, and while .50 caliber is fine for anti personnel work, it is useless against hard targets. Targets that the 30mm will turn inside out. You are factually incorrect on that subject.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Anything that could be built once could be built again............assembly lines could be redone with more modern technology as well. The A10 is a killing machine and is tough as hell in ground support.

Given the conflicts are against smaller groups with low tech weapons, it could easily be benefit us for decades.

You're right, there are many places on the battle field where the A-10 is still extremely useful. Killing the A-10 to make room for the F-35 is stupid in my book.

In CAS (Close Air Support), you need an airframe that can loiter above the fighting, and is capable of going slow enough that it can target the enemy, even if they are danger close to friendly troops.

I don't think that an F-35 going at several hundred miles an hour can target something better than an A-10.

 

[ABikerSailor]

High Air Frame Time (you can't replace the Air Frame without building a brand new Aircraft

The Assembly line was not only dismantled but scrapped. Even if you could put together the same folks (these folks would be in their late 50s and 60s) without the jigs and such you can't build a single A-10 without some serious bucks.

Yes, they are scheduled to be rewinged but rewinging doesn't replace or upgrade the Air Frame.

The A-10 has been rode hard and put away wet unlike any other bird in the inventory today. And there are cheaper ways to do the same job that are being considered right now. The Brrrrt that keeps coming up, the 30 mm on the A-10 is doing the job that either a 20mm vulcan or a 50 cal chain gun can do as well.

You can't change facts replacing them with good thoughts alone.

Production tooling can be rebuilt, for less, with the new CNC and CAD machinery. The 30mm is orders of magnitude more capable than any 20mm round in existence, and while .50 caliber is fine for anti personnel work, it is useless against hard targets. Targets that the 30mm will turn inside out. You are factually incorrect on that subject.

Speaking of which, isn't the 30mm capable of firing depleted uranium rounds while the others aren't?

 

[westwall]

High Air Frame Time (you can't replace the Air Frame without building a brand new Aircraft

The Assembly line was not only dismantled but scrapped. Even if you could put together the same folks (these folks would be in their late 50s and 60s) without the jigs and such you can't build a single A-10 without some serious bucks.

Yes, they are scheduled to be rewinged but rewinging doesn't replace or upgrade the Air Frame.

The A-10 has been rode hard and put away wet unlike any other bird in the inventory today. And there are cheaper ways to do the same job that are being considered right now. The Brrrrt that keeps coming up, the 30 mm on the A-10 is doing the job that either a 20mm vulcan or a 50 cal chain gun can do as well.

You can't change facts replacing them with good thoughts alone.

Production tooling can be rebuilt, for less, with the new CNC and CAD machinery. The 30mm is orders of magnitude more capable than any 20mm round in existence, and while .50 caliber is fine for anti personnel work, it is useless against hard targets. Targets that the 30mm will turn inside out. You are factually incorrect on that subject.

Speaking of which, isn't the 30mm capable of firing depleted uranium rounds while the others aren't?

DU can be used for pretty much any projectile. The issue is is it worth it. The 30mm is a happy confluence of velocity, projectile size, and with the DU, density, that allows it to outperform anything in its class. The 30mm Rarden is its closest competitor, but that has nowhere near the rate of fire of the GAU-8A.

 

[ABikerSailor]

IMHO, getting rid of the Warthog would be a huge mistake. Yeah, we have more technical weapons that require advanced fighters to counter them, but when it comes to CAS and good old fashioned reliability, you can't beat the A-10.

Besides, putting the engines in a place where it is very difficult to hit them from the ground is a brilliant design. And, like I said, the A10 has an easier time targeting the enemy because they aren't flying as fast as the other jets.

 

[eagle1462010]

Anything that could be built once could be built again............assembly lines could be redone with more modern technology as well. The A10 is a killing machine and is tough as hell in ground support.

Given the conflicts are against smaller groups with low tech weapons, it could easily be benefit us for decades.

You're right, there are many places on the battle field where the A-10 is still extremely useful. Killing the A-10 to make room for the F-35 is stupid in my book.

In CAS (Close Air Support), you need an airframe that can loiter above the fighting, and is capable of going slow enough that it can target the enemy, even if they are danger close to friendly troops.

I don't think that an F-35 going at several hundred miles an hour can target something better than an A-10.

The F-35 has a different function..............it is for making strikes without being detected by enemy radar..............but like the F-22 it has many many many problems and is costing us a fortune.........................

The F-22 went head to head at Top Gun against very able pilots and won over and over again..............using it's radar CLOAK it fired on the other aircraft before they even knew the plane was there..................this is a new age tech that could destroy enemy targets right in their back yard without even being seen.............and that is the advantage of the new CLOAKing of the new aircraft..................

Other nations are trying to match it.........Russia and China................we must stay ahead of the curve and more importantly find a way to defeat the very system we are now building..............or they one day could very well use this very tech against us...............staying ahead of the curve is necessary.

 

[Divine Wind]

High Air Frame Time (you can't replace the Air Frame without building a brand new Aircraft

The Assembly line was not only dismantled but scrapped. Even if you could put together the same folks (these folks would be in their late 50s and 60s) without the jigs and such you can't build a single A-10 without some serious bucks.

Yes, they are scheduled to be rewinged but rewinging doesn't replace or upgrade the Air Frame.

The A-10 has been rode hard and put away wet unlike any other bird in the inventory today. And there are cheaper ways to do the same job that are being considered right now. The Brrrrt that keeps coming up, the 30 mm on the A-10 is doing the job that either a 20mm vulcan or a 50 cal chain gun can do as well.

You can't change facts replacing them with good thoughts alone.

The A-10 was built around that tank-killing gun. A 20mm or .50 cal won't do the job. Without the A-10 or a suitable replacement they'll have to use more expensive missiles.

 

[eagle1462010]

The A10 is a GROUND POUNDER'S BEST FRIEND,.

It shouldn't be retired...............

 

[Divine Wind]

The A10 is a GROUND POUNDER'S BEST FRIEND,.

It shouldn't be retired...............

Unfortunately, the Air Force never liked it. Sad.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Sounds right to me but outside of my circle of competence. Why not replace it with a big drone?

A Drone doesn't have the situation awareness that a Pilot in a Bubble Canopy does. When operating as either CAS or Sandy, things move real fast and the decisions have to made fast and followup on.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

High Air Frame Time (you can't replace the Air Frame without building a brand new Aircraft

The Assembly line was not only dismantled but scrapped. Even if you could put together the same folks (these folks would be in their late 50s and 60s) without the jigs and such you can't build a single A-10 without some serious bucks.

Yes, they are scheduled to be rewinged but rewinging doesn't replace or upgrade the Air Frame.

The A-10 has been rode hard and put away wet unlike any other bird in the inventory today. And there are cheaper ways to do the same job that are being considered right now. The Brrrrt that keeps coming up, the 30 mm on the A-10 is doing the job that either a 20mm vulcan or a 50 cal chain gun can do as well.

You can't change facts replacing them with good thoughts alone.

The A-10 was built around that tank-killing gun. A 20mm or .50 cal won't do the job. Without the A-10 or a suitable replacement they'll have to use more expensive missiles.

The 30mm is very expensive if all it's used for is to conduct CAS or Sandy missions. As I stated, a cheaper to operate and support dedicated CAS and Sandy should be in service. The A-10 lost it's armor busting mission when Armor just got too good at bagging slow and low. It found a home in a couple of mission profiles that were completely ignored, CAS and Sandy. Then the Ground Pounder got real mean, real fast and the A-10 was left using those expensive missiles. In the past, the 20mm and 50cal did a superb job. But the birds that used them were taken out of the inventory. The last bird that was used like that was the A-1E, taken out of service in 1975. You talk about a tough bird. I was sent out on a returning (diverted) A-1E that had a tree limb in his engine cowling, a distorted prop, on one side he was completely missing his wing from the Aileron out and was missing about half his tail section. No Jet in the World could have kept in the air, much less, landed safely with that kind of damage. That was from a Sandy mission where his job was to keep the enemy off the rescue chopper. Combined with the Army's AH-1s, when they went into action, we almost always got to the pilot before the enemy. And this was done behind enemy lines. All without a single 30mm to be had.

The A-1 first flew in 1945. They took all the good qualities of the ground attack light attack planes and the P-47 and put it all into the A-1. But it was taken out of service n 1975 after 30 years of service. What replaced in in 1975? The A-37 with it's 20mms, rockets and bombs. When they took the A-37 out of service, it left a huge void and the A-10 became the OA-10. But it always lacked sufficient range to really do the job. The A-10 always was to reliant on the Tanker. When things are hot and heavy, there are only so many tankers to go around.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Besides, I think that the A-10 is one of the only aircraft that is capable of killing tanks with their chain gun.

Now, every Tank and Armor gun is very capable of doing AA duty. When the A-10 was conceived, the A-10 was very capable of killing those things. Today, they kill right back.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Anything that could be built once could be built again............assembly lines could be redone with more modern technology as well. The A10 is a killing machine and is tough as hell in ground support.

Given the conflicts are against smaller groups with low tech weapons, it could easily be benefit us for decades.

You're right, there are many places on the battle field where the A-10 is still extremely useful. Killing the A-10 to make room for the F-35 is stupid in my book.

In CAS (Close Air Support), you need an airframe that can loiter above the fighting, and is capable of going slow enough that it can target the enemy, even if they are danger close to friendly troops.

I don't think that an F-35 going at several hundred miles an hour can target something better than an A-10.

I do agree with you but there are cheaper better ways to get the job done. The only reason the OA-10 was used is that they took the real CAS, Sandys out of the inventory in the late 70s and early 80s. All you need for those missions are Birds that throw a lot of lead, drops a lot of iron and generally makes the bad guys keep their heads down or lose their heads. Yes, the A-10 can do that but so could the A-1, A-7, OV-10. All 3 of those had the range to get to pilots quickly that were outside the 150 mile radius of the A-10. The Marines proved recently that the OV-10D was quite capable of doing CAS and Sandy in todays war environment. Unlike the A-10, the OV-10Ds jigs are still around.

 

[westwall]

High Air Frame Time (you can't replace the Air Frame without building a brand new Aircraft

The Assembly line was not only dismantled but scrapped. Even if you could put together the same folks (these folks would be in their late 50s and 60s) without the jigs and such you can't build a single A-10 without some serious bucks.

Yes, they are scheduled to be rewinged but rewinging doesn't replace or upgrade the Air Frame.

The A-10 has been rode hard and put away wet unlike any other bird in the inventory today. And there are cheaper ways to do the same job that are being considered right now. The Brrrrt that keeps coming up, the 30 mm on the A-10 is doing the job that either a 20mm vulcan or a 50 cal chain gun can do as well.

You can't change facts replacing them with good thoughts alone.

The A-10 was built around that tank-killing gun. A 20mm or .50 cal won't do the job. Without the A-10 or a suitable replacement they'll have to use more expensive missiles.

The 30mm is very expensive if all it's used for is to conduct CAS or Sandy missions. As I stated, a cheaper to operate and support dedicated CAS and Sandy should be in service. The A-10 lost it's armor busting mission when Armor just got too good at bagging slow and low. It found a home in a couple of mission profiles that were completely ignored, CAS and Sandy. Then the Ground Pounder got real mean, real fast and the A-10 was left using those expensive missiles. In the past, the 20mm and 50cal did a superb job. But the birds that used them were taken out of the inventory. The last bird that was used like that was the A-1E, taken out of service in 1975. You talk about a tough bird. I was sent out on a returning (diverted) A-1E that had a tree limb in his engine cowling, a distorted prop, on one side he was completely missing his wing from the Aileron out and was missing about half his tail section. No Jet in the World could have kept in the air, much less, landed safely with that kind of damage. That was from a Sandy mission where his job was to keep the enemy off the rescue chopper. Combined with the Army's AH-1s, when they went into action, we almost always got to the pilot before the enemy. And this was done behind enemy lines. All without a single 30mm to be had.

The A-1 first flew in 1945. They took all the good qualities of the ground attack light attack planes and the P-47 and put it all into the A-1. But it was taken out of service n 1975 after 30 years of service. What replaced in in 1975? The A-37 with it's 20mms, rockets and bombs. When they took the A-37 out of service, it left a huge void and the A-10 became the OA-10. But it always lacked sufficient range to really do the job. The A-10 always was to reliant on the Tanker. When things are hot and heavy, there are only so many tankers to go around.

I always liked the A-37 and against the VC it was a great performer. However, it can't take a hit. The A-10 can. And, more to the point, it can take more damage than the SPAD you wax eloquent upon. I like the Spad as well, but its four 20mm cannon don't hold a candle to the A-10's GAU-8A.