CDZ What is Race? What is 'White Race'? Where do These Concepts Come From?

[Owsi68]

Why is your action (assuming you are white) less significant than my reaction to it?

Why would you assume I am White? Seriously, I'm curious to know your reasoning.

But to address your question in a general sense - people tend to judge the actions of the offender less harshly than the reaction of the offended.

For proof, look at how bullying has been addressed in America. The bully is frowned upon but the victim is critically analyzed. They don't tell the bully to stop, they ask the victim why they won't stand up for themselves. But if the way you stand up to the bully is too harsh, you are viewed as the bigger offender.

Humans have some really shitty inherent traits. The imposition of decent societal values and constant learning helps to push aside those traits but they are always with us.

It's another case of - the reality sucks, I don't agree with it but it's reality. You can't control others as much as you can control yourself. So again, rise above or lower yourself. It's your decision and your consequences.

 

[Owsi68]

Considering the history of Black and white relations in this country and elsewhere what reason would I as a Black person have to be initially trusting of a white person in your estimation?

Very, very little. But I thought I already acknowledged that with example of the Brown dudes from different cities.

I'll say it again but try to be more clear. In the case where one race is the oppressor and aggressor, it is extremely difficult for the oppressed to push aside numerous bad experiences with from one predominant race. But the choice is that you can treat all others from that race like they're all the same or you take the opportunity to treat each encounter with that race as a chance to start over with a clean slate. Sooner or later, you will inevitably discover that there are good people in all races, ethniciies, sexes, religions. No one group is all bad or all good.

As a.Black person in America I would say you have very little reason to be trusting of all White people. But your reaction will shape your future. Hate everyone based on ignorant assumptions of superiority or give each individual a chance to prove themselves. You will run into good White people, but if you've got a chip on your shoulder then the only outcome you can be assured of is that the good ones will gain more sympathy for the bad ones.

 

[Owsi68]

The Black people that are not successful have to deal with that and much more police brutality the successful Blacks have an easier time avoiding.

Unsuccessful people of all races encounter police aggression. I've lived in lower class neighborhoods of many racial groups and the common factor was that there was a disproportionately large number of disrespectful and belligerent assholes and bitches

Police don't frequent bad areas because there are Blacks living there. They do it because lots of unlawful scumbags live there.

And they don't get aggressive with only Blacks. They do it with anyone who greets them with aggression and or resistance. As I once heard and firmly believe - if you have to scream that you didn't do anything wrong, you did something wrong.

That may be true. I know my Mexican and Asian homies had to deal with police brutality as well. I disagree that that there are more assholes and Bs. In fact I would say it was the opposite.

I know for a fact police frequent Black areas to keep Black people in line once Civil Rights gave us more freedom. This is what the entire war on drugs is about starting with Nixon, Reagan and Clinton. This is why cops get the reaction they do. They harrass people that havent done anything and they actively assist and protect the larger drug dealers that destroy Black neighborhoods.

While they may not only get aggressive with Blacks the reasons are varied as to why they get aggressive and when. A comment from a white boy delivered in the identical tone a Black guy may use can elicit an attack from the cop if a Black guy said it. I know because I saw it for 18 years of my life. Ironically the "screaming" you speak of is to draw as much attention to the encounter. Its not in some attempt to get the cop to believe you. Its a foregone conclusion that the cop doesnt really care.

I cannot empathize with your arguments. You make generalizations I can't agree with and express anger that I don't condone.

You speak a lot in terms of Black and White and the Whites are always evil, while the Blacks are always oppresed.

I don't think a blanket statement or even majority statement of a group being good or bad is the least bit true. But I do know that the embittered members of all races are shunned, even by their own, because negativity doesn't promote a healthy and progressive environment.

 

[Markle]

I am at a loss as to why thousands of words seem to have bn wasted over a couple simple definitions.

Section VIII of the 1968 Civil Rights act clearly named four specific classes for Fair Housing provisions. The original four were Race, Color, Creed and National Origin.

Creed has been simplified for Progressives to Religion.

National Origin, fairly obvious.

Color is obvious too, the color of one's skin.

Race is just as simple, it includes the cultural and ethnic differences between people.

A black male from America, Jamaica and Central Africa are all the same color. Their race, their cultural differences are substantial.

As for benefits or damages done to races/colors specifically to blacks, the most obvious, destructive example is LBJ's "War on Poverty" and "Great Society".

The result of the War on Poverty was to destroy the Black Family Unit which had once been one of the strongest in America. This was well done and well planned. Bad behavior was strongly rewarded and encouraged while good behavior was, and is, punished and discouraged.

Yes, more whites live in poverty than blacks but the rates are far different which explains the larger percentage of blacks in poverty today.

Oh, sex was added as a protected class in 1972. Familial status and handicap were added in 1988.

 

[saveliberty]

I am in the middle of the rat race, can I get back to you on this?

 

[Asclepias]

Why is your action (assuming you are white) less significant than my reaction to it?

Why would you assume I am White? Seriously, I'm curious to know your reasoning.

But to address your question in a general sense - people tend to judge the actions of the offender less harshly than the reaction of the offended.

For proof, look at how bullying has been addressed in America. The bully is frowned upon but the victim is critically analyzed. They don't tell the bully to stop, they ask the victim why they won't stand up for themselves. But if the way you stand up to the bully is too harsh, you are viewed as the bigger offender.

Humans have some really shitty inherent traits. The imposition of decent societal values and constant learning helps to push aside those traits but they are always with us.

It's another case of - the reality sucks, I don't agree with it but it's reality. You can't control others as much as you can control yourself. So again, rise above or lower yourself. It's your decision and your consequences.

I would assume you were white because we were talking about Black people and white people.

When you say "people" what type of people are you talking about? The reason i ask is because i always give more leeway to the person that didn't start the issue. To me whatever reaction they chose to respond with was solicited by the person that provoked them.

 

[Asclepias]

Considering the history of Black and white relations in this country and elsewhere what reason would I as a Black person have to be initially trusting of a white person in your estimation?

Very, very little. But I thought I already acknowledged that with example of the Brown dudes from different cities.

I'll say it again but try to be more clear. In the case where one race is the oppressor and aggressor, it is extremely difficult for the oppressed to push aside numerous bad experiences with from one predominant race. But the choice is that you can treat all others from that race like they're all the same or you take the opportunity to treat each encounter with that race as a chance to start over with a clean slate. Sooner or later, you will inevitably discover that there are good people in all races, ethniciies, sexes, religions. No one group is all bad or all good.

As a.Black person in America I would say you have very little reason to be trusting of all White people. But your reaction will shape your future. Hate everyone based on ignorant assumptions of superiority or give each individual a chance to prove themselves. You will run into good White people, but if you've got a chip on your shoulder then the only outcome you can be assured of is that the good ones will gain more sympathy for the bad ones.

Of course my reaction will shape my future. it seems you are assuming I have a chip on my shoulder. That would be tiring to say the least. Yes there are people in every race that are good people and I have benefited from this even in the white race. The thing is that I simply dont trust whites until they have proven themselves. Much more so than any other race. When I see a strange white person approach me I am much more observant of their body language and other non verbal reactions. I am a lot quieter and withdrawn. I am much more analytical of their trains of thought spoken or held in check. Its almost like a hobby. I have a few white friends, two white mentors, white extended family members, and a white god daughter. My oldest daughter is half white so obviously at some point I let her mother be close to me. That being said i find most whites to be very untrustworthy, jealous, and driven by a inferiority complex. I have had experiences in the corporate world and on the streets that created this impression so its not something I made up and looked for.

 

[JimBowie1958]

I cannot empathize with your arguments. You make generalizations I can't agree with and express anger that I don't condone.

You speak a lot in terms of Black and White and the Whites are always evil, while the Blacks are always oppresed.

I don't think a blanket statement or even majority statement of a group being good or bad is the least bit true. But I do know that the embittered members of all races are shunned, even by their own, because negativity doesn't promote a healthy and progressive environment.

I know blacks who I would trust with my life and whites I wouldnt trust any further than I could throw them.

IT isnt race that is the significant factor but the character these people display.

People who say that all of racial/ethnic group X are bad or good are people playing the group guilt/virtue game. IF they hate on a group, they will have all kinds of reasons for doing so and they will ignore all the good that that group has ever done, and like all groups they will have done both good and bad.

So people that make these black and white summations of different groups based on their race or ethnicity are mentally handicapping themselves to be exploited by groups they trust for no good reason.

I am not arguing with you, just expanding on your comments.

 

[Asclepias]

I am curious about the onus being put on Blacks to handle the situation in a personally developed manner.

The onus on Blacks is enormous. That's not right but that's how things have worked out. But bearing the greater burden is not an excuse to fail or rebel. If anything, overcoming a greater burden shows greater character. It a question of what you want show to both your allies and enemies alike - that you can meet vile behavior with anger and violence or that you can meet and overcome diversity with your greater moral character and greater intelligence. It's damn hard and incredibly unfair but I think there's no denying the benefits of rising above the scum

I had to think about this one before i replied. I cant agree with this where whites are concerned. if it was just a few times whites had attempted to screw over Blacks i could halfway see your point. Since its been times beyond number and specifically over race this approach makes no sense. As a matter of fact it smacks of being passive. I dont believe in being passive in the face of constant attack. I learned that passivity can get you killed and moral victories are pretty hollow things that always come back and bite you. I have found that decisive and immediate damaging action always.....always creates either fear or respect. i dont care which one I get when dealing with whites that choose to be disrespectful or start something.

 

[Asclepias]

The Black people that are not successful have to deal with that and much more police brutality the successful Blacks have an easier time avoiding.

Unsuccessful people of all races encounter police aggression. I've lived in lower class neighborhoods of many racial groups and the common factor was that there was a disproportionately large number of disrespectful and belligerent assholes and bitches

Police don't frequent bad areas because there are Blacks living there. They do it because lots of unlawful scumbags live there.

And they don't get aggressive with only Blacks. They do it with anyone who greets them with aggression and or resistance. As I once heard and firmly believe - if you have to scream that you didn't do anything wrong, you did something wrong.

That may be true. I know my Mexican and Asian homies had to deal with police brutality as well. I disagree that that there are more assholes and Bs. In fact I would say it was the opposite.

I know for a fact police frequent Black areas to keep Black people in line once Civil Rights gave us more freedom. This is what the entire war on drugs is about starting with Nixon, Reagan and Clinton. This is why cops get the reaction they do. They harrass people that havent done anything and they actively assist and protect the larger drug dealers that destroy Black neighborhoods.

While they may not only get aggressive with Blacks the reasons are varied as to why they get aggressive and when. A comment from a white boy delivered in the identical tone a Black guy may use can elicit an attack from the cop if a Black guy said it. I know because I saw it for 18 years of my life. Ironically the "screaming" you speak of is to draw as much attention to the encounter. Its not in some attempt to get the cop to believe you. Its a foregone conclusion that the cop doesnt really care.

I cannot empathize with your arguments. You make generalizations I can't agree with and express anger that I don't condone.

You speak a lot in terms of Black and White and the Whites are always evil, while the Blacks are always oppresed.

I don't think a blanket statement or even majority statement of a group being good or bad is the least bit true. But I do know that the embittered members of all races are shunned, even by their own, because negativity doesn't promote a healthy and progressive environment.

You dont have to empathize or agree. We are just talking not looking for agreement. I think you are confusing my resolve with anger.

All whites are not evil and only Blacks that allow themselves to be oppressed are oppressed. The laws have changed so Blacks can and do succeed in life regardless of the ongoing racism still in this country. These Blacks simply work harder and achieve inspite of racism.

There is no way to prove if majority statements are true or not. its simply impossible because people will lie to protect their image. Blanket statements are rarely true. I disagree that embittered members of all races are shunned by their own. Thats pretty much a blanket statement. They have their hate groups and like minded friends. Even those that may not agree with everything they say may agree with some of the things they say. If you were correct they wouldnt exist in sufficient numbers to warrant mention. There are very few absolutes.

 

[Asclepias]

I cannot empathize with your arguments. You make generalizations I can't agree with and express anger that I don't condone.

You speak a lot in terms of Black and White and theWhites are always evil, while the Blacks are always oppresed.

I don't think a blanket statement or even majority statement of a group being good or bad is the least bit true. But I do know that the embittered members of all races are shunned, even by their own, because negativity doesn't promote a healthy and progressive environment.

I know blacks who I would trust with my life and whites I wouldnt trust any further than I could throw them.

IT isnt race that is the significant factor but the character these people display.

People who say that all of racial/ethnic group X are bad or good are people playing the group guilt/virtue game. IF they hate on a group, they will have all kinds of reasons for doing so and they will ignore all the good that that group has ever done, and like all groups they will have done both good and bad.

So people that make these black and white summations of different groups based on their race or ethnicity are mentally handicapping themselves to be exploited by groups they trust for no good reason.

I am not arguing with you, just expanding on your comments.

I disagree that race is not a significant factor in shaping your character. Character is really just your moral values

 

[Unkotare]

Why is your action (assuming you are white) less significant than my reaction to it?

Why would you assume I am White? Seriously, I'm curious to know your reasoning.

But to address your question in a general sense - people tend to judge the actions of the offender less harshly than the reaction of the offended.

For proof, look at how bullying has been addressed in America. The bully is frowned upon but the victim is critically analyzed. They don't tell the bully to stop, they ask the victim why they won't stand up for themselves. But if the way you stand up to the bully is too harsh, you are viewed as the bigger offender.

Humans have some really shitty inherent traits. The imposition of decent societal values and constant learning helps to push aside those traits but they are always with us.

It's another case of - the reality sucks, I don't agree with it but it's reality. You can't control others as much as you can control yourself. So again, rise above or lower yourself. It's your decision and your consequences.

???????????


Of course bullies are told to stop.