What is our obligation to the poor?

[Newby]

I just woke up, thinking about you and this question you asked, Avatar...and you know how I think when things like this happen to me.....that it is God, trying to communicate with me in my sleep....

A couple of scripture passes keep coming in to my head, that I believe could be your answer to your questions.

I don't have the specifics, of book, chapter and verse...(I'll try to get them later on)I just remember reading them...

One, Jesus healed the infirmed and sick, ON THE SABBath.... The Religious of his temple, were questioning Jesus for healing the sick on the Sabbath....this was AGAINST the rules of their religion....sort of how you seem to view the secular/gvt feeding the poor....it appears to be against the rules of your religion, for others, besides those in your church, to help the needy...your church leaders or you personally, think it should be the religious ONLY that goes out and helps poor and sick people and anyone else that does such is wrong....it breaks your rules....

Jesus's message in this sermon, is that IT DOES NOT MATTER and DOES NOT BREAK God's rules to not work on the Sabbath when you are doing God's will...the pharisees, were holding on to some RULE about the sabbath, while they were willing to let the sick die and not be healed, just because it was the Sabbath....regardless of the GOOD that Jesus was accomplishing through His healings.

This is what i see when you appear to say it is wrong for our government of the people, to be compassionate and help the poor, sick and neediest...you keep implying it is not their job to do such or it is wrong for them to do such and that this is the obligation of the individual blah blah blah....you remind me of the Pharisees....trying to stick to some rule that they have MADE UP THEMSELVES, and saying it was God's rule....(honoring the Sabbath), while they were willing to let God's child, DIE and not be healed.... Jesus SHOWED them, they were WRONG and it was not God's will, but their own convoluted minds that made honoring the Sabbath meaning to mean, not healing the sick, or other religious words to mean not helping a bloody samaratan man left for dead...and to pass on by...

This is what I see you trying to justify...taking your religion and trying to twist it in to meaning that we should not let our govt help the needy or the poor...

Any GOOD being done is GOOD, and God uses both believers, and unbelievers and governments and the wealthy and the poor, and our leaders to bring His good will, in to fruition....to limit God to just what the individual can do is simply wrong, imho....

And the second parable that relates to this is the Parable of the Sheep and the Goats, when Christ gathered the NATIONS before Him on judgement day....the supposed religious question WHEN did they not feed Him, or clothe Him etc? (similar to you not willing to allow our govt to feed the hungry etc) They acted as if they had no idea that they even turned people away from their help...yet you are willing to turn people away from help, just because it is the Nation helping them and not a religious individual....(that's how you come off)

And Christ told theses people from these Nations...that how they treated the least among us, was how they treated HIM.


Avatar, do good in all that you do, not just you as an individual, but you, as a member of a Nation, and as a member of a religious group, and as a son to your mother and father, and as husband to your new bride etc etc etc...

Look at each individual in need, as it being Jesus himself in need, look at those in prison, as if it was Jesus himself in prison, look at those that are sick, as if it was Jesus that was sick.....would you really deny Jesus help just because the help was coming from a Nation?

I think it's a big mistake to think that you are following Jesus' commands by simply paying your taxes because by doing so you are part of helping the less fortunate. Jesus' words were meant on an individual basis, not a societal one. He expected YOU to give of your poessesions, money and time, not society as a whole. Granted, deeds do not bring about salvation, yet those who are saved should show that they are saved through their personal deeds. Good deeds should be a result of being a christian and being saved, not the road to it. It is impossible for a society as a whole to do this, society as a whole is not saved, individuals are. It is individuals that show this through their deeds, and that is not by paying taxes to the government. You see everything as a collective, I see things through individual responsibility and liberty. If each individual was doing as he or she ought, then there would be no need of the collective or the government representing the collective to do those deeds.

newby, I never said that I think I am following Jesus' commands by SIMPLY paying my taxes. That is following ONE of Jesus' demands but it certainly does not stop with only one command. I don't think Jesus' commands stop at an individual and do not include (me as an individual in) society, but if you have some scripture that has Jesus' stating that our own good will towards others should stop when I am in a society that I am a part of...please do so!

Those are your rules Newby, NOT the Lord's, in my humble opinion. You may think this is following Christ, but I believe it is the complete opposite of what you say Christ wanted us to be and do. When he asked the rich man to give up everything, there was no one individual that this rich man was asked to give up his riches for, he was asked to do such for SOCIETY, for the poor and needy in their society specifically. He was not asked or told to go out individually and help them with his own hands in this sermon....so, I truly do not know where you get your opinion above on what Jesus taught....but if there are specifics in scripture, then I would love to read them! Please share!

As it stands, we will have to agree to disagree sweetie!

care

Yes, we will have to agree to disagree because I don't understand your point or where it is coming from at all. What are 'my rules'? You lost me on that completely? I'm not making up any rules at all. Do you believe a society as a whole can find salvation in Jesus Christ? Or is it the individual that finds salvation in Him? If you think that a society as a whole is able too, then we definitely see things very differently.

I saw this posted by someone in another thread, and I believe it to be very true...

Christianity is a religion where the actions of the heart and mind are most important.

Society or government representing a collective does not have a heart or a mind or a soul, only an individual does.

Or, let's put it another way. Let's say you lived in a society where there was no government safety net and there were poor and hungry and ill, and there were many in that society that didn't lift a hand to help, nor did any representatives of that society as a collective (i.e. government) help those individuals. Do you think that you living in that society would be condemned because the society as a whole was not charitable as long as you personally did all you could do to help those people? What society does has no bearing on that day when you stand in front of God on the judgement day, only what you yourself have done or not done will matter.

 

[Againsheila]

I think it's a big mistake to think that you are following Jesus' commands by simply paying your taxes because by doing so you are part of helping the less fortunate. Jesus' words were meant on an individual basis, not a societal one. He expected YOU to give of your poessesions, money and time, not society as a whole. Granted, deeds do not bring about salvation, yet those who are saved should show that they are saved through their personal deeds. Good deeds should be a result of being a christian and being saved, not the road to it. It is impossible for a society as a whole to do this, society as a whole is not saved, individuals are. It is individuals that show this through their deeds, and that is not by paying taxes to the government. You see everything as a collective, I see things through individual responsibility and liberty. If each individual was doing as he or she ought, then there would be no need of the collective or the government representing the collective to do those deeds.

newby, I never said that I think I am following Jesus' commands by SIMPLY paying my taxes. That is following ONE of Jesus' demands but it certainly does not stop with only one command. I don't think Jesus' commands stop at an individual and do not include (me as an individual in) society, but if you have some scripture that has Jesus' stating that our own good will towards others should stop when I am in a society that I am a part of...please do so!

Those are your rules Newby, NOT the Lord's, in my humble opinion. You may think this is following Christ, but I believe it is the complete opposite of what you say Christ wanted us to be and do. When he asked the rich man to give up everything, there was no one individual that this rich man was asked to give up his riches for, he was asked to do such for SOCIETY, for the poor and needy in their society specifically. He was not asked or told to go out individually and help them with his own hands in this sermon....so, I truly do not know where you get your opinion above on what Jesus taught....but if there are specifics in scripture, then I would love to read them! Please share!

As it stands, we will have to agree to disagree sweetie!

care

Yes, we will have to agree to disagree because I don't understand your point or where it is coming from at all. What are 'my rules'? You lost me on that completely? I'm not making up any rules at all. Do you believe a society as a whole can find salvation in Jesus Christ? Or is it the individual that finds salvation in Him? If you think that a society as a whole is able too, then we definitely see things very differently.

I saw this posted by someone in another thread, and I believe it to be very true...

Christianity is a religion where the actions of the heart and mind are most important.

Society or government representing a collective does not have a heart or a mind or a soul, only an individual does.

Or, let's put it another way. Let's say you lived in a society where there was no government safety net and there were poor and hungry and ill, and there were many in that society that didn't lift a hand to help, nor did any representatives of that society as a collective (i.e. government) help those individuals. Do you think that you living in that society would be condemned because the society as a whole was not charitable as long as you personally did all you could do to help those people? What society does has no bearing on that day when you stand in front of God on the judgement day, only what you yourself have done or not done will matter.

Yes and no. You must also do whatever you can to change society for the batter, not live in your own little corner and ignore the rest o of the world.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Newby does not understand the second of the great commandments is all.

He will learn, I am sure.

 

[Newby]

newby, I never said that I think I am following Jesus' commands by SIMPLY paying my taxes. That is following ONE of Jesus' demands but it certainly does not stop with only one command. I don't think Jesus' commands stop at an individual and do not include (me as an individual in) society, but if you have some scripture that has Jesus' stating that our own good will towards others should stop when I am in a society that I am a part of...please do so!

Those are your rules Newby, NOT the Lord's, in my humble opinion. You may think this is following Christ, but I believe it is the complete opposite of what you say Christ wanted us to be and do. When he asked the rich man to give up everything, there was no one individual that this rich man was asked to give up his riches for, he was asked to do such for SOCIETY, for the poor and needy in their society specifically. He was not asked or told to go out individually and help them with his own hands in this sermon....so, I truly do not know where you get your opinion above on what Jesus taught....but if there are specifics in scripture, then I would love to read them! Please share!

As it stands, we will have to agree to disagree sweetie!

care

Yes, we will have to agree to disagree because I don't understand your point or where it is coming from at all. What are 'my rules'? You lost me on that completely? I'm not making up any rules at all. Do you believe a society as a whole can find salvation in Jesus Christ? Or is it the individual that finds salvation in Him? If you think that a society as a whole is able too, then we definitely see things very differently.

I saw this posted by someone in another thread, and I believe it to be very true...

Christianity is a religion where the actions of the heart and mind are most important.

Society or government representing a collective does not have a heart or a mind or a soul, only an individual does.

Or, let's put it another way. Let's say you lived in a society where there was no government safety net and there were poor and hungry and ill, and there were many in that society that didn't lift a hand to help, nor did any representatives of that society as a collective (i.e. government) help those individuals. Do you think that you living in that society would be condemned because the society as a whole was not charitable as long as you personally did all you could do to help those people? What society does has no bearing on that day when you stand in front of God on the judgement day, only what you yourself have done or not done will matter.

Yes and no. You must also do whatever you can to change society for the batter, not live in your own little corner and ignore the rest o of the world.

I never said you should sit in your own corner and ignore the world, you make society as a whole better by following your heart and helping those in need. But, it's something that comes from within, not at the point of a gun. If I morally mandate that my neighbor has the same obligations of charity that I do and use the force of government to compel him to do the same whether he wants too or not, that's not making society better, nor is that helping my neighbor find salvation. That's not what it's supposed to be about, that's not what Jesus taught.

 

[signelect]

I am called to help the poor but I am not called to enable them. they have to do something to help themselves or I am out of here. Churches do a lot of good work and a lot of bad. They are no different that the rest of us. Churches are just people but some like to point out our weakness. the problem is that we already have admitted it and ask for forgiveness some get it and some don't..

 

[syrenn]

I just wanted to say.... i love you guys! ^^^^^^^^

 

[Avatar4321]

In order for something to be good it has to be voluntary. It cannot be forced. Means are just as important, if not more important than ends.

When you take wealth from others to "help" a third party, you are denying both the person you take money from and the person you "help" the opportunity to be blessed as the Lord intended. And you violate the 8th commandment "Thou shalt not steal." The Lord didn't say "Thou shalt not steal unless you are a government official, and then you can buren your fellow citizens with high taxes and spending their children's money in order to "help" people, or more accurately buy votes"

The Lord told us to labor for six days and rest on one. He didn't say do that until you are 65 and then relax for the rest of your life.

The Lord said "For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat." (2 Thess 3:10). He didn't say let the government take care of you for 99 weeks and then think about getting a job if you cant get the government to give more.

We are commanded to minister to and help others. The Lord is trying to teach us how to be self reliant, or more accurately, to rely on Him, and not on the government. Our help to others is supposed to be to help them come to Christ and be self sufficient as well. We dont help people by encouraging idleness. We don't help people by taking their money by force.

Ebeneezer Scrooge was one who didn't think he needed to do anything to help others because the government took his money by force to "help" others. When his heart was changed, he didnt campaign to get government to give to the poor, he went out and gave of, not only his money, but his time and support to lift them. He gave his clerk a raise, he didn't merely give him handouts.

As i said earlier, means are more important to than the ends. Because it's the means that actually lead to the right ends. If you use the wrong means, you will never reach the ends you are truly looking for.

The Lord wants us to give Him our heart, mind, might, and strength of our own will and volition. Otherwise, our gift is meaningless.

 

[High_Gravity]

I have heard that "God helps those who help themselves." Well, I think each person should help themselves as much as possible. There was once upon a time (and I don't know if it still exists or not) a housing program called "House My People." You got a house at substantially reduced cost, a new house, but you had to put in so many hours in the building of it, supervised by the carpenters. I know, because my sis and her husband got one. She was laying floor tile, painting, whatever she could do. Husband, too. That was 35 years ago. Nowadays these people just sit back and let US build their house, sort their food, build their clinics. In fact when my sis helped build her house, she was about 8 months pregnant!

That is essentially what Habitat for Humanity is. Sweat equity.

The problem i have is the abuse of the system that are in place. I feel they hurt just as much as they help. They foster a dependency and apathy.

Two of my biggest gripes are the food stamp program and section 8 housing. If we have a responsibility to them in giving them the aid.... then THEY have the responsibility to US to use it wisely and on food not junk. If they are being housed... then they have the obligation to keep it clean and tidy...and not just us it as a place to be a lazy ass and lounge around.... it SHOULD be the place they come back to after a long day of looking for a job...any job. And if not a job... community service.

I totally agree. You drive by any low income housing and they are totally run down, dumps, grass a foot high, garbage everywhere. You just don't take care of something you are handed to like you do something you had to work for. I don't care if you are poor or rich. Rich kids who are given cars they didn't have to work for don't take care of them, they know there will be another one to take its place. Same with the section 8 housing. they think they are owed. I just can't understand why a person would not want to be free and independent. We did everything in our power to keep from living like that. I just don't get it.

Actually those rich kids do take care of their vehicles, I have never seen a rich person driving a car that looked like shit.

 

[Katzndogz]

That is essentially what Habitat for Humanity is. Sweat equity.

The problem i have is the abuse of the system that are in place. I feel they hurt just as much as they help. They foster a dependency and apathy.

Two of my biggest gripes are the food stamp program and section 8 housing. If we have a responsibility to them in giving them the aid.... then THEY have the responsibility to US to use it wisely and on food not junk. If they are being housed... then they have the obligation to keep it clean and tidy...and not just us it as a place to be a lazy ass and lounge around.... it SHOULD be the place they come back to after a long day of looking for a job...any job. And if not a job... community service.

I totally agree. You drive by any low income housing and they are totally run down, dumps, grass a foot high, garbage everywhere. You just don't take care of something you are handed to like you do something you had to work for. I don't care if you are poor or rich. Rich kids who are given cars they didn't have to work for don't take care of them, they know there will be another one to take its place. Same with the section 8 housing. they think they are owed. I just can't understand why a person would not want to be free and independent. We did everything in our power to keep from living like that. I just don't get it.

Actually those rich kids do take care of their vehicles, I have never seen a rich person driving a car that looked like shit.

They don't need to take care of their vehicles. They don't keep them long enough to get run down.

 

[High_Gravity]

I totally agree. You drive by any low income housing and they are totally run down, dumps, grass a foot high, garbage everywhere. You just don't take care of something you are handed to like you do something you had to work for. I don't care if you are poor or rich. Rich kids who are given cars they didn't have to work for don't take care of them, they know there will be another one to take its place. Same with the section 8 housing. they think they are owed. I just can't understand why a person would not want to be free and independent. We did everything in our power to keep from living like that. I just don't get it.

Actually those rich kids do take care of their vehicles, I have never seen a rich person driving a car that looked like shit.

They don't need to take care of their vehicles. They don't keep them long enough to get run down.

Well they have other people do it for them, my point is rich kids won't let their vehicles go to the shit like the poor people let their section 8 houses go to shit.

 

[Barb]

I have heard that "God helps those who help themselves." Well, I think each person should help themselves as much as possible. There was once upon a time (and I don't know if it still exists or not) a housing program called "House My People." You got a house at substantially reduced cost, a new house, but you had to put in so many hours in the building of it, supervised by the carpenters. I know, because my sis and her husband got one. She was laying floor tile, painting, whatever she could do. Husband, too. That was 35 years ago. Nowadays these people just sit back and let US build their house, sort their food, build their clinics. In fact when my sis helped build her house, she was about 8 months pregnant!

That is essentially what Habitat for Humanity is. Sweat equity.

The problem i have is the abuse of the system that are in place. I feel they hurt just as much as they help. They foster a dependency and apathy.

Two of my biggest gripes are the food stamp program and section 8 housing. If we have a responsibility to them in giving them the aid.... then THEY have the responsibility to US to use it wisely and on food not junk. If they are being housed... then they have the obligation to keep it clean and tidy...and not just us it as a place to be a lazy ass and lounge around.... it SHOULD be the place they come back to after a long day of looking for a job...any job. And if not a job... community service.

I totally agree. You drive by any low income housing and they are totally run down, dumps, grass a foot high, garbage everywhere. You just don't take care of something you are handed to like you do something you had to work for. I don't care if you are poor or rich. Rich kids who are given cars they didn't have to work for don't take care of them, they know there will be another one to take its place. Same with the section 8 housing. they think they are owed. I just can't understand why a person would not want to be free and independent. We did everything in our power to keep from living like that. I just don't get it.

Do you know what the unemployment rate is? Do you know what it would be if every one of our service members were brought home, and / or if every non-violent offender were freed from our for profit prison system? Do you know how many corporations apply, and get, H-1B VISAS in spite of these numbers? Do you know that because of these numbers, college graduates are competing for extremely low pad positions that will not support the investment they made in their education, and that these facts knock a substantial number of less educated would-be workers out of the competition for ANY job, much less one that pays a livable wage?

You're goddamned right people take better care of something they can feel personal pride about. Most poor, un and underemployed poor people would love to have a job that they could use to provide even the thinnest slice of the "American dream" for their families.

Crumbs provided instead, begrudgingly and with a sneer, are valued for what they are worth.

 

[Barb]

from Plain Talk: Put income surtax on big bonuses

Jim Hightower, the longtime Texas gadfly, says that assertion reminds him of a story that Earl Long, the former governor of Louisiana, used to tell about a rich man who died and showed up at the Pearly Gates demanding entry into heaven. Hightower recounts:

“The gate-keeping angel found that this rich man had been a selfish, no-good so-and-so his whole life. But the man said, ‘Wait a minute, I have a pattern of charitable giving.’ He said he’d once tossed a nickel in a beggar’s cup. Plus, a poor woman he encountered needed help, and he gave her a nickel. Then there was the time that he put a nickel in the Salvation Army kettle.

“Hearing all this, the angel turned to St. Peter and asked, ‘What do we do with this man?’ And St. Peter said: ‘Give him back his 15 cents and tell him to go to hell.’ ”

Government Policy is putting the will of the peoples money where their mouth's are. It is NOT enough to simply throw a few bucks (crumbs) their way, we must advocate for policies that help people improve their condition, to make ours a society where success is broadly possible, for every one of us.

To eliminate the REASONS poverty even exists.

 

[Disenchanted61]

Ive been thinking about it this morning and I was wondering what our obligation to the poor is. Im not talking about what we should outsource to the government or what the government should do. But what do we as individuals have a responsibility to do?

I keep thinking of the words of a hymn:

"We'll go to the poor like our Captain of old. And visit the weary, the hungry, and cold. We'll cheer up their hearts with the news that he bore and point them to Zion and life evermore."

I believe we as individuals have a duty and privilege to serve the poor. And that when we try to outsource those responsibilities to the government and to others, than we fail to give and recieve the blessings we could otherwise have.

What do you think?

Doesn't make much difference what you believe. The facts are:

1) There are over 900,000,000 in the world who are dying from starvation or suffering from malnutrition...mostly children

2) Church folks drop by for an hour and a half a week and leave their money which is used for preacher's homes and salaries, travel expenses, oak or mahagony pews, building maintenance or expansion, expensive musical instruments and sound systems, stained glass, steeples, youth programs, missionaries who travel to other countries with the precise purpose of changing their culture. They leave there feeling good and believing they have done their part.

Jesus told the rich young ruler to sell what he had and give it to the poor. He was saddened to hear it.

You left out Pat Robertsons diamond mining ventures on the Continent of Africa, financed with contributions from ignorant old folk on fixed incomes.

 

[JakeStarkey]

In order for something to be good it has to be voluntary. It cannot be forced. Means are just as important, if not more important than ends.

In More's utopia, perhaps, but not among humans. Coercion is the socializing and organizing principle of "nations", Avatar: historical fact, period. The ? is not if but of how we do that. We do that here in a representative republican government chosen democratically by We the People. And We the People do support these programs, Avatar.

The question is not whether at all, only of how to reform where reform is necessary.

 

[Newby]

In order for something to be good it has to be voluntary. It cannot be forced. Means are just as important, if not more important than ends.

In More's utopia, perhaps, but not among humans. Coercion is the socializing and organizing principle of "nations", Avatar: historical fact, period. The ? is not if but of how we do that. We do that here in a representative republican government chosen democratically by We the People. And We the People do support these programs, Avatar.

The question is not whether at all, only of how to reform where reform is necessary.

But Avatar was speaking to the topic from a christian perspective, not a political one. Politically you can rationalize anything you want, and horrific people have done so many times over the years, see Germany circa 1940's, but that never changes the viewpoint from the christian perspective. Try to compare apples to apples, it doesn't work trying to compare religious to political.

 

[sealybobo]

Ive been thinking about it this morning and I was wondering what our obligation to the poor is. Im not talking about what we should outsource to the government or what the government should do. But what do we as individuals have a responsibility to do?

I keep thinking of the words of a hymn:

"We'll go to the poor like our Captain of old. And visit the weary, the hungry, and cold. We'll cheer up their hearts with the news that he bore and point them to Zion and life evermore."

I believe we as individuals have a duty and privilege to serve the poor. And that when we try to outsource those responsibilities to the government and to others, than we fail to give and recieve the blessings we could otherwise have.

What do you think?

I think the poor need to try to not be poor. Or if you are poor and have kids your goal should be to get your kids out of poverty. Which means they shouldn't have kids till they are no longer poor.

The next generation of poor chose to be poor. They did it to themselves. No reason a person has to be poor in America unless he or she has children.

You wrote this 5 years ago. Anyone poor who read this back then, what have they done in the last 5 years to better themselves?

 

[ding]

newby, I never said that I think I am following Jesus' commands by SIMPLY paying my taxes. That is following ONE of Jesus' demands but it certainly does not stop with only one command. I don't think Jesus' commands stop at an individual and do not include (me as an individual in) society, but if you have some scripture that has Jesus' stating that our own good will towards others should stop when I am in a society that I am a part of...please do so!

Those are your rules Newby, NOT the Lord's, in my humble opinion. You may think this is following Christ, but I believe it is the complete opposite of what you say Christ wanted us to be and do. When he asked the rich man to give up everything, there was no one individual that this rich man was asked to give up his riches for, he was asked to do such for SOCIETY, for the poor and needy in their society specifically. He was not asked or told to go out individually and help them with his own hands in this sermon....so, I truly do not know where you get your opinion above on what Jesus taught....but if there are specifics in scripture, then I would love to read them! Please share!

As it stands, we will have to agree to disagree sweetie!

care

Yes, we will have to agree to disagree because I don't understand your point or where it is coming from at all. What are 'my rules'? You lost me on that completely? I'm not making up any rules at all. Do you believe a society as a whole can find salvation in Jesus Christ? Or is it the individual that finds salvation in Him? If you think that a society as a whole is able too, then we definitely see things very differently.

I saw this posted by someone in another thread, and I believe it to be very true...

Christianity is a religion where the actions of the heart and mind are most important.

Society or government representing a collective does not have a heart or a mind or a soul, only an individual does.

Or, let's put it another way. Let's say you lived in a society where there was no government safety net and there were poor and hungry and ill, and there were many in that society that didn't lift a hand to help, nor did any representatives of that society as a collective (i.e. government) help those individuals. Do you think that you living in that society would be condemned because the society as a whole was not charitable as long as you personally did all you could do to help those people? What society does has no bearing on that day when you stand in front of God on the judgement day, only what you yourself have done or not done will matter.

Yes and no. You must also do whatever you can to change society for the batter, not live in your own little corner and ignore the rest o of the world.

I never said you should sit in your own corner and ignore the world, you make society as a whole better by following your heart and helping those in need. But, it's something that comes from within, not at the point of a gun. If I morally mandate that my neighbor has the same obligations of charity that I do and use the force of government to compel him to do the same whether he wants too or not, that's not making society better, nor is that helping my neighbor find salvation. That's not what it's supposed to be about, that's not what Jesus taught.

Agreed. It is not virtuous if one is forced to be virtuous. Nor has throwing money over a fence been proven to help his neighbor at all. Far from it... it destroys the spirit of man. Even FDR admitted to this.

 

[ding]

Ive been thinking about it this morning and I was wondering what our obligation to the poor is. Im not talking about what we should outsource to the government or what the government should do. But what do we as individuals have a responsibility to do?

I keep thinking of the words of a hymn:

"We'll go to the poor like our Captain of old. And visit the weary, the hungry, and cold. We'll cheer up their hearts with the news that he bore and point them to Zion and life evermore."

I believe we as individuals have a duty and privilege to serve the poor. And that when we try to outsource those responsibilities to the government and to others, than we fail to give and recieve the blessings we could otherwise have.

What do you think?

I think the poor need to try to not be poor. Or if you are poor and have kids your goal should be to get your kids out of poverty. Which means they shouldn't have kids till they are no longer poor.

The next generation of poor chose to be poor. They did it to themselves. No reason a person has to be poor in America unless he or she has children.

You wrote this 5 years ago. Anyone poor who read this back then, what have they done in the last 5 years to better themselves?

Subsidiarity has been proven to be the only way to work. That and allowing people to suffer the consequences of their actions.

 

[ding]

Ive been thinking about it this morning and I was wondering what our obligation to the poor is. Im not talking about what we should outsource to the government or what the government should do. But what do we as individuals have a responsibility to do?

I keep thinking of the words of a hymn:

"We'll go to the poor like our Captain of old. And visit the weary, the hungry, and cold. We'll cheer up their hearts with the news that he bore and point them to Zion and life evermore."

I believe we as individuals have a duty and privilege to serve the poor. And that when we try to outsource those responsibilities to the government and to others, than we fail to give and recieve the blessings we could otherwise have.

What do you think?

I think the poor need to try to not be poor. Or if you are poor and have kids your goal should be to get your kids out of poverty. Which means they shouldn't have kids till they are no longer poor.

The next generation of poor chose to be poor. They did it to themselves. No reason a person has to be poor in America unless he or she has children.

You wrote this 5 years ago. Anyone poor who read this back then, what have they done in the last 5 years to better themselves?

Do you believe it would be better to not be born at all than to be born poor?

 

[Likkmee]

Teach the poor to read.English...Provide the books. NON fiction.....abolish Television, "organized religion",military, and video games from the face of the earth.
Poor becomes history over 30-50 years or so.A thing of the past.The current human condition is akin to leprosy.......of the mind......