What is Manliness?

[dilloduck]

Also, there was just less responsiblity all around. It's human nature to avoid responsibilty, to exercise selfish will, to "do it MY way." This philosophy is attractive to all people, both male and female (some individuals more than otheres).

"Do it my way" combined with throwing of all the shackles of sexual morality and doing what just feels good was a recipe for disaster.

 

[Nienna]

No, but I have always wondered why men went along with this. There didn't seem to be much of an outcry. I have always assumed that men maybe had a sense of fair play, and were duped into thinking that, yeah, women do deserve "equality."

But in family life, wouldn't it have been repugnant to men, especially in that era, to know that the women they were sleeping with were less and less likely to be virgins? Or did the simple desire for more sex make this a non-issue?

 

[dilloduck]

No, but I have always wondered why men went along with this. There didn't seem to be much of an outcry. I have always assumed that men maybe had a sense of fair play, and were duped into thinking that, yeah, women do deserve "equality."

But in family life, wouldn't it have been repugnant to men, especially in that era, to know that the women they were sleeping with were less and less likely to be virgins? Or did the simple desire for more sex make this a non-issue?

Women control the sexual arena--men had no choice but to go along with it unless they wanted to be convicted for rape. Men just aren't built to remain abstinant as well as women are. I think virginity became a non-issue.

 

[Nienna]

Women control the sexual arena--men had no choice but to go along with it unless they wanted to be convicted for rape.

How could they be convicted of rape for NOT going along with free sex? Or are you talking about the gender role reversal?

Men just aren't built to remain abstinant as well as women are. I think virginity became a non-issue.

So they really didn't see it as "gross" to come after (no pun intended) another guy?

I really think it made them have less respect for the women, though. They didn't have to put as much effort and responsiblity into "getting her." Is that true?

 

[dilloduck]

How could they be convicted of rape for NOT going along with free sex? Or are you talking about the gender role reversal?


So they really didn't see it as "gross" to come after (no pun intended) another guy?

I really think it made them have less respect for the women, though. They didn't have to put as much effort and responsiblity into "getting her." Is that true?

Women have the power on consent. They had to at least appear to seem to be what a women thought she wanted or there would be no consent. Guys I were around simply saw it as a reality--when most of the girls you know are sleeping around the concept of finding a virgin was almost a joke. True--"easy" women while maybe "popular" commanded less respect but at the same time women who were "prudish" were mocked by men AND women.

 

[sitarro]

When I was a child my grandma (who raised me ) would spend a couple of hours just preparing a wonderful meal for me and grandpa to eat! I couldn't help but notice that she used to like to watch me eat it! Everything she ever made was always wonderful and had a touch to it that I cannot explain. Naturally afterward I would jump up and head out the door with no special acknowledgement of what she had done or to show my appreciation to her that she so deserved. Our house was always spotless and everything organized as her sole purpose was to take care of her family.....AGAIN! She had raised three children , never held a job, WAS educated and to me was the perfect woman, mother, teaCHER and advisor.

My point in this is that we all probably had a similar lady like this in our lives if we grew up in the 40's, 50's or 60's. I would feel safe to say that most of these woman enjoyed being what they were and felt purposeful and happy.

Hmmmm!!!! There didn't didn't seem to be as much crime, drugs, fat kids, video games, shootings, guns or other modern day deterrents as there is today. I wonder if there is a connection?

Hmmmm!!! I wonder if the divorce rate is connected to the modern era liberated woman? Latch key kids with no dads, stuffy feminist wacko's trying to marry one another in San Fran, a Nintendo in every 80's household with a single mom running things.

Hmmmmm!!!! I wonder if woman being hell bent on equality and equal rights have lessened the value of mom? I mean I don't want to be the website scoundrel but damn folks, could some of the core problems with our society be based solely on the fact that Gransma and Granddaughter are two different creatures.

Almost 40 % of children 12 years old are overweight. Could this be some of the spinoff of our Womans Liberation movement? Is it possible that the new wave liberated woman has neglected our American children and just allowed them to be raised by a Video Game. HMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!


OR...........................


Is it mens fault? Did we do something through the sixties, seventies and eighties that somehow contributed to this overall decay of family, health and happiness? Did we somehow neglect our families and fail the wives and woman of our lives so that they figured it was better to raise a somehow lite version of the family and hope that everything would be OK!!!!

Did dads play enough catch with their boys in the seventies? Hmmmm!!!!

Do parents still read to their children? My grandma used to rub my back and read to me EVERY night? Good books that I enjoyed because she made them come to life, real life. She would sort of raise her voice if the character was yelling and imitate the characters actions as she read. My Grandpa would sometimes come in and sit also because he so enjoyed this delightful trait possessed by the woman he chose to be married to for 71 years at his death.

He fixed broken pipes, opened doors for ladies and did all the driving! I don't think it was an ego thing. He enjoyed being the man of the house and his word was final, well, unless grandma wanted him to change his mind! He always gave in to her when a disagreement ensued and was happy to know that he had made this change because it pleased this wonderful woman whom he lived to impress.

Where did we lose all this? What really happened. Who's fault was it? Who is more guilty?


wHO CARES?


We have as a society failed our ancestors! Today we whine about things we don't have. We drivw 50,000 cars and look across the street and want what the Jones' have! We are SPOILED! Spoiled to shit! Men and women have failed each other and as a result we have failed our fat, dumb and lazy children.

What is my point you ask? I do too!

Great post Emmet,

I think that there are many more things involved in what has happened to change our world. Yes feminism started one snowball rolling down the mountain. Along with the feminist movement came the sexual revolution, another snowball rolling. Add the fact that women entered the workplace in overwhelming numbers, men losing jobs traditionally held by men to women, wives in the work space alongside men all day, and kids left in day care(another snowball that has picked up even more momentum) .

Women worked for less which brought down the pay men would accept to do the same job and eventually we became 2 parent working families just to survive. There go the kids because Mothers have the most important job there is. . . raising kids and now they are forced to juggle a job and raising kids. Kids can make it without the father's hourly influence, they need the mother's influence on their lives as much as possible. The feminist disregarded motherhood as an importance, they placed more importance on a woman being a secretary, I wonder if they were just lesbians that wanted more women to choose from.

This isn't a criticism of women in the workforce it is a comment on what happens when you double the workforce almost overnight and lower the jobs available.

1.Lawyers
2. television shows
3. celebrity worship
4. the pushing of religion out of our daily life
5. computers, video games and the internet
6. new cars for kids to try to control them and make up for not being around as parents
7. political partisonship
8. gay influence on our culture once they were allowed to come out of their closets
9. black culture has become cool to the newest generation when most in my generation thought then and probably still do that it was not only tasteless and classless, it was humorous. Nobody I knew or know would put ugly ass rims on their car or listen to their pathetic music. That is not to say that all black music sucks, there are and have been many great black musicians, it is just amazing how this new form of "music" has taken over and real musicians aren't saying what they really think of it. I find it very hard to believe that Anita Baker has any respect for these talkers over other's music.

I think mediocrity has become the norm and people expect less in all forms of life wether it be art, music, architecture and even photography. All have been made so much easier to do wether it is computer aided art or computer generated music or camera equipment that makes all the decisions for you.

All of these things, snowballs rolling down a mountain, are heading for a huge collision at the bottom of the mountain. We may not survive the result, if we do will we recognize our world anymore?

Solutions?
Women need to realize that Motherhood is a huge responsebility and more important than any other job. It may not pay much monetarily but is priceless in what it brings to society as a whole.

I don't know what can be done about the rest but the above is a great start.

 

[dilloduck]

Great post Emmet,

I think that there are many more things involved in what has happened to change our world. Yes feminism started one snowball rolling down the mountain. Along with the feminist movement came the sexual revolution, another snowball rolling. Add the fact that women entered the workplace in overwhelming numbers, men losing jobs traditionally held by men to women, wives in the work space alongside men all day, and kids left in day care(another snowball that has picked up even more momentum) .

Women worked for less which brought down the pay men would accept to do the same job and eventually we became 2 parent working families just to survive. There go the kids because Mothers have the most important job there is. . . raising kids and now they are forced to juggle a job and raising kids. Kids can make it without the father's hourly influence, they need the mother's influence on their lives as much as possible. The feminist disregarded motherhood as an importance, they placed more importance on a woman being a secretary, I wonder if they were just lesbians that wanted more women to choose from.

This isn't a criticism of women in the workforce it is a comment on what happens when you double the workforce almost overnight and lower the jobs available.

1.Lawyers
2. television shows
3. celebrity worship
4. the pushing of religion out of our daily life
5. computers, video games and the internet
6. new cars for kids to try to control them and make up for not being around as parents
7. political partisonship
8. gay influence on our culture once they were allowed to come out of their closets
9. black culture has become cool to the newest generation when most in my generation thought then and probably still do that it was not only tasteless and classless, it was humorous. Nobody I knew or know would put ugly ass rims on their car or listen to their pathetic music. That is not to say that all black music sucks, there are and have been many great black musicians, it is just amazing how this new form of "music" has taken over and real musicians aren't saying what they really think of it. I find it very hard to believe that Anita Baker has any respect for these talkers over other's music.

I think mediocrity has become the norm and people expect less in all forms of life wether it be art, music, architecture and even photography. All have been made so much easier to do wether it is computer aided art or computer generated music or camera equipment that makes all the decisions for you.

All of these things, snowballs rolling down a mountain, are heading for a huge collision at the bottom of the mountain. We may not survive the result, if we do will we recognize our world anymore?

Solutions?
Women need to realize that Motherhood is a huge responsebility and more important than any other job. It may not pay much monetarily but is priceless in what it brings to society as a whole.

I don't know what can be done about the rest but the above is a great start.

Agreed--feminism and it's army of lawyers have succeeded in making "womanhood" a weapon to punish men and the collateral damage to our society is the result. When traits considered "manly" are mocked out of existence we are left with a society that can't compete with the rest of the world in several arenas.

 

[Said1]

Agreed--feminism and it's army of lawyers have succeeded in making "womanhood" a weapon to punish men and the collateral damage to our society is the result. When traits considered "manly" are mocked out of existence we are left with a society that can't compete with the rest of the world in several arenas.

Is that statement rhetorical?

 

[dilloduck]

Is that statement rhetorical?

sure !

 

[Nienna]

7. political partisanship

That's interesting that you see this as a result of the feminist movement.

I'll tell y'all a little story...

My husband and I have been playing the board game "Sorry" with our girls in the evening (our two little boys have to be in bed first; they just wreck the game board). Now, my husband can be pretty competitive. He IS a man. He started out by whooping and jeering every time he knocked an opponent back to her "home" space. He especially took great delight in knocking ME back home. But my husband didn't realize that the rules are different when you play with girls. He soon found himself being knocked back home at every opportunity, even when the girls would have benefitted more by knocking me or each other out. He cried foul, but the girls didn't care so much about winning as they did about banding together against Daddy.

I wonder how much "dirtier" politics became when more females became a part of it. A guy once told me, "Males fight to show superiority; females fight to kill." I think he was right.

 

[Said1]

I wonder how much "dirtier" politics became when more females became a part of it. A guy once told me, "Males fight to show superiority; females fight to kill." I think he was right.

Probably not much. Men have been known to destroy each other too.

 

[dmp]

I'm not particularly aggressive...but I'm VERY funny. And I talk a lot. When I'm not too skeerd. I'm stubborn on a few areas from which I will not budge. I'm not particularly hairy, and I have been known to cry at a movie or two.

But...fuck with those whom I love, and I'll kick your ass.

Fuck with them to a certain point, and I'll shoot your ass.

 

[Annie]

I'm not particularly aggressive...but I'm VERY funny. And I talk a lot. When I'm not too skeerd. I'm stubborn on a few areas from which I will not budge. I'm not particularly hairy, and I have been known to cry at a movie or two.

But...fuck with those whom I love, and I'll kick your ass.

Fuck with them to a certain point, and I'll shoot your ass.

You do know that avatar is messing with my mind?

 

[Nienna]

I stand corrected.
:fifty:

 

[dilloduck]

That's interesting that you see this as a result of the feminist movement.

I'll tell y'all a little story...

My husband and I have been playing the board game "Sorry" with our girls in the evening (our two little boys have to be in bed first; they just wreck the game board). Now, my husband can be pretty competitive. He IS a man. He started out by whooping and jeering every time he knocked an opponent back to her "home" space. He especially took great delight in knocking ME back home. But my husband didn't realize that the rules are different when you play with girls. He soon found himself being knocked back home at every opportunity, even when the girls would have benefitted more by knocking me or each other out. He cried foul, but the girls didn't care so much about winning as they did about banding together against Daddy.

I wonder how much "dirtier" politics became when more females became a part of it. A guy once told me, "Males fight to show superiority; females fight to kill." I think he was right.

I think the biggest change to come about is the fact that women have used thier power at the polls and tend to vote as a bloc much like minority groups.

 

[sitarro]

That's interesting that you see this as a result of the feminist movement.

I'll tell y'all a little story...

My husband and I have been playing the board game "Sorry" with our girls in the evening (our two little boys have to be in bed first; they just wreck the game board). Now, my husband can be pretty competitive. He IS a man. He started out by whooping and jeering every time he knocked an opponent back to her "home" space. He especially took great delight in knocking ME back home. But my husband didn't realize that the rules are different when you play with girls. He soon found himself being knocked back home at every opportunity, even when the girls would have benefitted more by knocking me or each other out. He cried foul, but the girls didn't care so much about winning as they did about banding together against Daddy.

I wonder how much "dirtier" politics became when more females became a part of it. A guy once told me, "Males fight to show superiority; females fight to kill." I think he was right.

Sorry Mom,

My post wasn't very well written, as usual I kinda jump all over the place. I was just listing the many things I've noticed changing a lot over the last 40 years(my memory fails before then).

 

[Abbey Normal]

I'm not particularly aggressive...but I'm VERY funny. And I talk a lot. When I'm not too skeerd. I'm stubborn on a few areas from which I will not budge. I'm not particularly hairy, and I have been known to cry at a movie or two.

But...fuck with those whom I love, and I'll kick your ass.

Fuck with them to a certain point, and I'll shoot your ass.

I cold be wrong, but I think the author was emphasizing decisiveness and confidence more than aggression as manly characteristics. I think you pass. :cof:

 

[Nienna]

I cold be wrong, but I think the author was emphasizing decisiveness and confidence more than aggression as a manly characteristics. I think you pass. :cof:

Could decisiveness and confidence be seen as the "good side" of agression?

 

[dilloduck]

Could decisiveness and confidence be seen as the "good side" of agression?

I interpret agression as taking some initiative and actually DOING something with decisiveness and confidence. Too many people think that since they have talked about a problem that they have actually done something about it.

 

[Abbey Normal]

Could decisiveness and confidence be seen as the "good side" of agression?

I'm not really seeing any direct connection between the two, but I am sure that they can go together.