What is Libertarian?

[kwc57]

Sex n drugs n rock n roll.

Libertarianism is a second cousin to communism by way of anarchism.

Does it hurt to be that stoopid? I mean, do you actually feel physical pain or are you totally oblivious to it?

awwwwww.......poor wittle wabbi got hims panties all in a bunch and negged me for for pointing out the obvious. To answer your question, no moron, your -98 points didn't hurt. Shall we call you the wah-bulance?

 

[kaz]

I think it has something to do with stacking books

Actually liberals stack books. Libertarians read them...

 

[kaz]

The funny part is that Bush attempted to do everything in his power to prevent the foreseeable economic collapse

Bush said wow, the Clinton administration policy of blackmailing banks into making bad loans isn't going to end well. Then he did zero about it. That's everything he could do?

 

[The Rabbi]

The funny part is that Bush attempted to do everything in his power to prevent the foreseeable economic collapse

Bush said wow, the Clinton administration policy of blackmailing banks into making bad loans isn't going to end well. Then he did zero about it. That's everything he could do?

First off, CRA played a very small role in the economic collapse. the general low interest rate environment and lax oversight of Fan/Fred were much more accountable.
Second, CRA was a Congressional act. Bush cannot simply undo an act of Congress.
Third, Bush got bad advice on dealing with the crisis and probably made it worse, and allowed Obama to make it much worse.

 

[IndependntLogic]

I just thought I'd throw this one out there for discussion. It's my guess, based on many of the posts around here, that there will be wildly divergent views. I've been associated with libertarian causes, including the Libertarian party since before Ron Paul's first run for president ('88). I even ran for local county offices on the Libertarian ticket a couple of times as a 'paper' candidate ('paper' meaning I was on the ballot but didn't run an active campaign - and frankly had no expectation of winning).

For me, libertarian ideology is pretty simple. It's about taking the ethos of 'live-and-let-live' seriously. It's about real tolerance and diversity. It's based on the idea that the whole purpose of government is to maximize freedom.

I came here specifically to learn about the Tea Party. From what I saw on MSM, they were all just a bunch of whackjobs like Michele Bachmann. The Libertarian segment of the TP changed my mind on the TP and also educated me and changed my views on many other things - like the number of state agencies that are duplicated at the Federal level.
I still disagree with them on a LOT in that regard and yes, they have their whackjobs too but the more civil and intelligent among them make well-reasoned points. The rest? See my signature below

 

[Mr.Nick]

Sex n drugs n rock n roll.

Libertarianism is a second cousin to communism by way of anarchism.

That is wrong...

It's the opposite of communism.... Besides the means of communism (socialism) violate the Bill of Rights...

I will say this tho - the only thing that separates the anarchists from the true libertarians are the first Ten Amendments of the US constitution.

I believe most classical liberals understand that the original classical liberals that came to this country fled their origins because they were sick of authoritarian theocratic government or monarchies...

They wanted individual liberty, or the ability to warship how they saw fit for themselves.

Now 400 years later we're reverting right back to the authoritarian ways that caused some of the first settlers to jump ship and flee their homelands.

Now, being a libertarian is embracing individual freedom - freedom from government.

Now as far as the communism assertion or comparison - libertarians believe individuals have property rights and communists don't....

The original settlers to this country were Puritans. They established colonies and made laws that governed many aspects of private life we would find intolerable today. The Founders, who lived later, had no issue with gov't per se doing the same. They objected to a national government setting standards for the states.
I didnt say narco-libertarians didnt believe in property. Only that they,like the Communists, are descended intellectually from anarchists, some of whom supported individual property while others opposed it.
But the roots of narco-libertarianism have nothing to do with Classical Liberalism.

Exactly, the Puritans lived how they chose... Do you believe the monarchies or theocracies in their motherland would tolerate such??

Maybe the federalists had no problem with a government but many classical liberals did.

Ever hear of the Stamp Tax Act and what happened with that?

 

[Avatar9]

I think it has something to do with stacking books

Actually liberals stack books. Libertarians read them...

and conservatives burn them

 

[Fyght]

Libertarians are people who wish to check their own water safety and think that the Clean Water Act violates freedom since it is socialism at its finest.

They also think sweatshops are key to economic development.

 

[Mr.Nick]

The funny part is that Bush attempted to do everything in his power to prevent the foreseeable economic collapse

Bush said wow, the Clinton administration policy of blackmailing banks into making bad loans isn't going to end well. Then he did zero about it. That's everything he could do?

No...

He actually attempted to "reregulate" the banks while Barny Frank convinced the progressive base that there was nothing wrong and such "reregulations" would be racist..

Then the collapse happened and Barney Frank was the first one in line pointing fingers along with Nancy Pelosi.

The odd part about all this is that Bush is labeled as a "dictator" when in reality he could have gone over Franks head and stopped the banks via executive order but chose not to and did what the congress wished despite knowing damn well he was right and our present economy proves this.

He basically said "fine the wishes of the peoples representatives will be the law of the land."

Well the people got what they voted for....

Just remember its congress that legislates and NOT the president... And remember that a president that vetoes, or passes an executive order is essentially playing dictator when he does.

You see one man has no right to trump 535 men/woman...

 

[dblack]

I came here specifically to learn about the Tea Party. From what I saw on MSM, they were all just a bunch of whackjobs like Michele Bachmann. The Libertarian segment of the TP changed my mind on the TP and also educated me and changed my views on many other things - like the number of state agencies that are duplicated at the Federal level.
I still disagree with them on a LOT in that regard and yes, they have their whackjobs too but the more civil and intelligent among them make well-reasoned points. The rest? See my signature below

I'm not really sure how many libertarians are left in the Tea Party movement. The Republicans have been trying to lure libertarians their way since Reagan, and the Tea Party is simply their latest marketing campaign. Ron Paul is a fairly consistent litmus test for TP people. If they preface comments with a disclaimer like, "I like Ron Paul a lot, but he really loses me on foreign policy ..." it's fairly likely you're talking to a neo-con trying to slip out from under the Bush legacy.

 

[FA_Q2]

Read about our party here and educate yourself .


Libertarian Party (United States) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

He has no interest in getting an education.

I've had enough education to realize that libertarianism is a crank movement. It is Progressive just by another name.

Polar opposites. One believes in large regulating powerful government and the other in small government. I guess that you see everything that is not what you think as progressive. That is asinine...

To me, Libertarianism was well defined long ago. Read Mises. A good start is "Liberalism, the Classical Tradition". Written in 1927, it warns against the rise of Progressivism and lays out the logic, reason and history of limited government, maximum freedom.

Again...Please tell me why America should follow the ideology of 19th century German, and Austro-Hungary rather than the 18th century Anglo-American ideas our founding fathers left as their legacy?

Our founding fathers were not libertarians.

Elite Americans of the Founding generation were deeply shaped – not literally by Roman ideas, but by the 18th century understanding of Roman ideas. Here’s a perfect example: George Washington’s favorite play was Joseph Addison’s Cato, published in 1713. Washington adapted words from that play in his famous speech quelling the Newburgh mutiny in 1783. Patrick Henry’s “give me liberty or give me death” was likewise a paraphrase of a speech from Addison’s play. Ditto Nathan Hale’s “I only regret I have but one life to give for my country.” So – influential, right?

And what was the message of that play? That the most precious thing in life is honor. And what is honor? It is the esteem of the wise and the good. Better to die in a way that earns the admiration of others than to live without that admiration. It is hard to imagine a more radical antipode to Ayn Rand’s formula, “I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.”

First, our founding fathers were nothing even close to modern liberalism so that argument is a non starter for sure. They may not have been libertarians but they were certainly close to that than liberals today.

Second, you fail to understand what Rand meant in that statement if you believe that there was no value to honor. Have you even read Atlas Shrugged? The entire book was full of that concept. The concept of self worth and honor to your ideals and values. To be hones though, it has nothing to do with the real point here. One Ayn Rand quote does not define libertarian. The basic premise of libertarians, as far as I can tell, is that government is only there to protect your rights and other than that it should be getting out of the way as much as possible. That I can wholeheartedly agree with. Though I do not associate myself with the libertarians that is because I don't see them having a defined set of core values or even a real platform. That, in general, makes associating with the party rather meaningless.

 

[Mr.Nick]

I think it has something to do with stacking books

Actually liberals stack books. Libertarians read them...

and conservatives burn them

And progressive murder people who wear glasses.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

I just thought I'd throw this one out there for discussion. It's my guess, based on many of the posts around here, that there will be wildly divergent views. I've been associated with libertarian causes, including the Libertarian party since before Ron Paul's first run for president ('88). I even ran for local county offices on the Libertarian ticket a couple of times as a 'paper' candidate ('paper' meaning I was on the ballot but didn't run an active campaign - and frankly had no expectation of winning).

For me, libertarian ideology is pretty simple. It's about taking the ethos of 'live-and-let-live' seriously. It's about real tolerance and diversity. It's based on the idea that the whole purpose of government is to maximize freedom.

I never could understand whoever's aversion to Webster, when definitions are the subject, here.​

Libertarian​

1: an advocate of the doctrine of free will

2 a : a person who upholds the principles of individual liberty especially of thought and action

b capitalized : a member of a political party advocating libertarian principles

 

[FA_Q2]

No.

You guys get mad at that one!

'NO! We're diffferent! We're all about liberty! Lookit, 'Liberty' is practically in the name!'

No. You're a Republican who doesn't want to say he's a Republican.

Yeah? How many conservatives do you know that are strictly anti-war? How many conservatives are pro-choice, as there are pro-choice libertarians? How many conservatives oppose the war on drugs? How many conservatives want to leave it up to the people and the various religions to define marriage for themselves?

Simply put, how many conservatives do you know that are radically anti-state?

I consider myself conservative yet I fall into most of those. The issue I think is you are taking a jab at republican issues and I would define conservatives differently. I am pro choice (at least to a point) anti war, anti drug laws and mostly want to see the government out of marrying people altogether. I think that all those are actual conservative ideals if they are true to themselves. Where most people get stuck is when the conservative losses the core of conservatism (freedom and small government) for a view of government backed morality. In that case, I believe those are not examples of conservatism but are actually far close to progressive ideals.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Libertarianism is a second cousin to communism by way of anarchism.

You've been reading too-many o' those Texas-approved History-textbooks.

 

[Fyght]

You guys get mad at that one!

'NO! We're diffferent! We're all about liberty! Lookit, 'Liberty' is practically in the name!'

No. You're a Republican who doesn't want to say he's a Republican.

Yeah? How many conservatives do you know that are strictly anti-war? How many conservatives are pro-choice, as there are pro-choice libertarians? How many conservatives oppose the war on drugs? How many conservatives want to leave it up to the people and the various religions to define marriage for themselves?

Simply put, how many conservatives do you know that are radically anti-state?

I consider myself conservative yet I fall into most of those. The issue I think is you are taking a jab at republican issues and I would define conservatives differently. I am pro choice (at least to a point) anti war, anti drug laws and mostly want to see the government out of marrying people altogether. I think that all those are actual conservative ideals if they are true to themselves. Where most people get stuck is when the conservative losses the core of conservatism (freedom and small government) for a view of government backed morality. In that case, I believe those are not examples of conservatism but are actually far close to progressive ideals.

Those are Conservative ideals. Just look around and see what your fellow conservatives have enacted. Conservatives are anti-choice, pro War on Drugs, pro Nation Building, and against gays marrying each other.

However, libertarians like to think that they are progressive.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Sex n drugs n rock n roll.

Libertarianism is a second cousin to communism by way of anarchism.

Read about our party here and educate yourself .


Libertarian Party (United States) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sounds like an Org (pretty-much) in flux.

"Principle" vs. "Pragmatism" debate

 

[Mr. Shaman]

You've got good intentions Dblack. I've spent 12 years actively engaged in Libertarian politics and issues. But I've come to conclusion that my focus is going to be on issues, policy and REALITY of American politics -- not the party. Libertarians couldn't manage a bake sale. As evidenced by the decision to waive compulsory dues because that was "too coercive". Or the candidates we vet who think marijuana is an entire platform and not just a plant..

So all my energy and time and money goes now to Cato, Reason Foundation, and a handful of other policy centers that deal with items like the Dept of Education and Social Security from a PRAGMATIC standpoint.

i.e. Corporate America's preferences.....​

"The Cato Institute is a libertarian think tank headquartered in Washington, D.C. It was founded in 1977 by Edward H. Crane, who remains president and CEO, and Charles Koch, chairman of the board and chief executive officer of the conglomerate Koch Industries, Inc., the second largest privately held company (after Cargill) by revenue in the United States."

Cato Institute​

 

[Mr.Nick]

Yeah? How many conservatives do you know that are strictly anti-war? How many conservatives are pro-choice, as there are pro-choice libertarians? How many conservatives oppose the war on drugs? How many conservatives want to leave it up to the people and the various religions to define marriage for themselves?

Simply put, how many conservatives do you know that are radically anti-state?

I consider myself conservative yet I fall into most of those. The issue I think is you are taking a jab at republican issues and I would define conservatives differently. I am pro choice (at least to a point) anti war, anti drug laws and mostly want to see the government out of marrying people altogether. I think that all those are actual conservative ideals if they are true to themselves. Where most people get stuck is when the conservative losses the core of conservatism (freedom and small government) for a view of government backed morality. In that case, I believe those are not examples of conservatism but are actually far close to progressive ideals.

Those are Conservative ideals. Just look around and see what your fellow conservatives have enacted. Conservatives are anti-choice, pro War on Drugs, pro Nation Building, and against gays marrying each other.

However, libertarians like to think that they are progressive.

At least what you refer to as a "conservative" has never hung blacks or attempted to ban cheeseburgers or happy meal toys while claiming they support "individualism."

Oh yeah and throwing blacks in ghetto subsidized housing while throwing them table scraps while telling them they're oppressed and lucky they get table scraps.

Ya fucking racist progressives..

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Read about our party here and educate yourself .


Libertarian Party (United States) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

He has no interest in getting an education.

I've had enough education to realize that libertarianism is a crank movement.

....Kinda like....

FAUX NOISE??

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