What is it that you fear about 'Obamacare'?

[judyd]

The problem is that there are too many in the U.S. who aren't making an honest evaluation of the health insurance that they currently have.

We don't have surgery immediately if it isn't a life-threatening condition. I was scheduled three months before my cataract surgery because there were so many before me. On the other hand, I was taken immediately for gallbladder surgery.

If you don't have a critical condition, you aren't going to be seen immediately. And first and foremost, prior to anything being done, the insurance company has to approve the procedure. if they don't approve it, or not for the full amount requested, guess who has to pay for it?

We are paying almost $500 a month for health insurance, but we get no benefit out of it because the deductible is $5,000 each, annually. Through the grace of God we haven't had anything that serious up to now. On the other hand, all appointments and medications are paid for out of pocket.

So frankly, I don't see the difference in paying additional taxes for coverage for which we could at least protest increases to our respective congressional or senate representatives, or paying huge amounts to insurance and pharmaceutical companies for which there is NO means to protest.

I have known dozens of people who received health care in Europe who are very pleased with their treatment. As I pointed out, yes, you may have to wait for treatment, but it is the same here, if you don't have a critical need.

 

[California Girl]

Firstly, what Obama has done is nothing like your NHS.

Secondly, your NHS is adequate - nothing more.

Thirdly, your beloved NHS is the fourth largest employer IN THE WORLD. For a tiny little island... Can you imagine what size a similar organization would be in the US?

Fourthly, the US has a Constitution. That document tells the Federal Government what it is allowed to do. Forcing Americans to buy a product or service is not contained within that document so his crappy idea to force us all to buy insurance is unConstitutional.

Fifthly, what the hell business is it of yours what we do?

1) Ok, but the idea is similar no? To make healthcare affordable to everyone?

2) Well it's done well to save my life in the past, as well as several friends and family members. Also, I don't believe the US has a life expectancy any higher than here.

3) Is that a bad thing?

4) Fair enough on that point. Can't say I understand the ins and outs of your constitution.

5) Why so tetchy?

You can't pay much attention to California Girl. She has nothing better to do then post on this site 40+ times a day with 98% of her posts being hateful and ignorant. She may be representative of many on this board who idolize her, but she does not represent the views of logical thinking, compassionate Americans.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and suggest that you pulled that stat out of your ass.... Unless of course, you'd like to prove it. Flattering tho' it is, I am not actually the topic. Try to focus, just once, otherwise we're gonna have to call whine one one and get you a waaaaaaabulance. Idiot.

 

[RDD_1210]

1) Ok, but the idea is similar no? To make healthcare affordable to everyone?

2) Well it's done well to save my life in the past, as well as several friends and family members. Also, I don't believe the US has a life expectancy any higher than here.

3) Is that a bad thing?

4) Fair enough on that point. Can't say I understand the ins and outs of your constitution.

5) Why so tetchy?

You can't pay much attention to California Girl. She has nothing better to do then post on this site 40+ times a day with 98% of her posts being hateful and ignorant. She may be representative of many on this board who idolize her, but she does not represent the views of logical thinking, compassionate Americans.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and suggest that you pulled that stat out of your ass.... Unless of course, you'd like to prove it. Flattering tho' it is, I am not actually the topic. Try to focus, just once, otherwise we're gonna have to call whine one one and get you a waaaaaaabulance. Idiot.

The 40+ posts per day? That's verifiable and pathetic.
The 98% being hate-filled....well that's certainly not scientific but anyone who's posted more then 10 times on this site would have a hard time disagreeing with it.

The guy comes here, asking honest questions, ASKING to not start a fight and you act like a bitch toward him in the very first post. YOU made this about you. Get over yourself.

 

[Charles_Main]

Hi

I have a question on a subject that I am quite baffled on. I live in England where we have a public health service that is completely free at the point of delivery (the NHS). It is paid for out of taxation, government operated and available to everyone based on their medical needs. Private health care is available for anyone who wants it as well.

The NHS is the most cherished institution that exists in this country, and any political party openly calling for it's privatisation would be signing themselves into opposition forever.

So when I hear on the news the controversy that exists in the US about the healthcare reforms proposed by Obama (which actually appear quite modest in scope to me) I really can't understand what the fuss is about. Could someone please explain to me what it is that you fear in regards to these healthcare proposals?

I hope this thread can be kept civil as I am not here to start an argument. I just seek to understand the American mindset a bit more.

Thanks
Dave

Oh lets see.

Mandates that have and will cause increased costs instead of the Lower costs we were told to expect.

A bill that was sold as lowering the budget that is actually going to add to the Deficit each year, and only sort of looked Deficit neutral when you counted 10 years of taxes to only 6 years of services.

500 Billion raped out of an already failing Medicare budget.

32 Million new customers added to a broken system with a Shortage of Doctors and no real plan to fix it.

Yeah whats to fear.


Obamacare is Nothing at all Like the British NHS my friend. Nothing.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Hi

I have a question on a subject that I am quite baffled on. I live in England where we have a public health service that is completely free at the point of delivery (the NHS). It is paid for out of taxation, government operated and available to everyone based on their medical needs. Private health care is available for anyone who wants it as well.

The NHS is the most cherished institution that exists in this country, and any political party openly calling for it's privatisation would be signing themselves into opposition forever.

So when I hear on the news the controversy that exists in the US about the healthcare reforms proposed by Obama (which actually appear quite modest in scope to me) I really can't understand what the fuss is about. Could someone please explain to me what it is that you fear in regards to these healthcare proposals?

I hope this thread can be kept civil as I am not here to start an argument. I just seek to understand the American mindset a bit more.

Thanks
Dave

Look, I don't want to be rude, honestly, but have you noticed that we aren't British? If Americans didn't have different attitudes and priorities from the British, we wouldn't have bothered to fight the Revolutionary War.

We consider the idea of the government controlling healthcare (and believe me, if they're paying, they're controlling), taxing people to pay for others' personal individual concerns, and degrading our health care system to the level of yours to be unacceptable. If you "cherish" a system that allows people to wait for treatment until their conditions kill them, good for you. If you're satisfied with much lower survival rates for cancer and various other life-threatening illnesses, knock yourself out. We aspire higher than that.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Firstly, what Obama has done is nothing like your NHS.

Secondly, your NHS is adequate - nothing more.

Thirdly, your beloved NHS is the fourth largest employer IN THE WORLD. For a tiny little island... Can you imagine what size a similar organization would be in the US?

Fourthly, the US has a Constitution. That document tells the Federal Government what it is allowed to do. Forcing Americans to buy a product or service is not contained within that document so his crappy idea to force us all to buy insurance is unConstitutional.

Fifthly, what the hell business is it of yours what we do?

1) Ok, but the idea is similar no? To make healthcare affordable to everyone?

2) Well it's done well to save my life in the past, as well as several friends and family members. Also, I don't believe the US has a life expectancy any higher than here.

3) Is that a bad thing?

4) Fair enough on that point. Can't say I understand the ins and outs of your constitution.

5) Why so tetchy?

1) You call the insane tax rates you people tolerate to fund your healthcare system "affordable"? Here's a hint, honey: just because you don't see the money before it's spent doesn't mean you aren't spending it.

2) Healthcare systems have very little to do with life expectancy in first-world countries. The US is a very different country, and has very different factors that apply to its life expectancy than England does.

3) If you have to ask why the government of a tiny country being the fourth largest employer in the world is a bad thing, you are never going to understand the American mindset. I believe her point, though, was that the US, being exponentially larger than your country, would require an exponentially larger (and more costly and complicated) system.

4) But you DO understand the concept of observing the law, right? Essentially, our Constitution enshrines the idea of minimal federal government to do the basic necessities, and leaving the rest up to individuals and their more local communities. Americans as a rule view government as a necessary evil and distrust it.

5) Because we get a lot of crap from people from other countries who want to tout the wonders of places that aren't us and where we don't want to live. If you like your system, go for it. We aren't you.

 

[newpolitics]

Bloke, I wouldn't listen to all of these Americans. They are conservatives mostly, and happen to be extremely rude. You were just wondering, and of course California Girl, who perpetually has a large, prickly rod up her ass, can't remain civil even when the OP states there is no arguement being seeked, only information.

I will say this: As an american, I think it is great that we are pushing for healthcare. There tons of people, mostly on the low-end of things, that don't have money for private health insurance, and get left out. People are mad about it because they don't want to care about anybody but themselves. They think it is 'unfair' to lend their income to anyone, under the guise that it is 'socialist,' but really, they are just selfish and use socialism as a scapegoat to mask their true motivations for denying allegiance to the cause. Of course there are going to be huge snags at first. It is a massive undertaking- to administer national healthcare to 280 million people, but Obama is trying it, and it is commendable, and he should be applauded for his valiant effort, but no, all these conservatives care about is THEM. THEIR money. How they work SO hard everyday and bla bla bla, wha wha wha. I think it's cool we are doing it. It will be expensive, but we'll be a better country for it.

It's funny the CG lists all of these negative contingencies of abuse, such as abortions. Yeah, of course SOME of the healthcare will go towards things none of us would wish to pay for, but most of it will go to people who really need, yet because a few will get things we don't like, we should abolish the whole thing? Again, this kind of illogical sentiment only leads to the conclusion that there are selfish underpinnings to their motives for dissent, and as such, it shouldn't really be respected, because we should be looking out for eachother, especially when it comes to healthcare, if we are to call ourselves a 'great country.'

 

[tinydancer]

Hi

I have a question on a subject that I am quite baffled on. I live in England where we have a public health service that is completely free at the point of delivery (the NHS). It is paid for out of taxation, government operated and available to everyone based on their medical needs. Private health care is available for anyone who wants it as well.

The NHS is the most cherished institution that exists in this country, and any political party openly calling for it's privatisation would be signing themselves into opposition forever.

So when I hear on the news the controversy that exists in the US about the healthcare reforms proposed by Obama (which actually appear quite modest in scope to me) I really can't understand what the fuss is about. Could someone please explain to me what it is that you fear in regards to these healthcare proposals?

I hope this thread can be kept civil as I am not here to start an argument. I just seek to understand the American mindset a bit more.

Thanks
Dave

lol

The NHS is dead and buried darlin. Cripes it's beyond kicking a dead horse.

You have malnutrition in your hospitals. A recent independent study on the NHS did label a hospital negligent for starving a patient to death.

Come on. You are delusional. Your system is not just broke it's FUBAR'd.

I believe in the French two tiered. But don't even try to pretend the NHS is successful

Patients die of malnutrion in Britain. How special....

Malnutrion in NHS hospitals at this link:


Malnutrition death rate in hospitals has doubled


Published Date: 13 May 2009
By HAMISH MACDONELL, SCOTTISH POLITICAL EDITOR
FOUR times more people are dying from malnutrition in Scottish hospitals than in their English counterparts, according to new figures published yesterday.

Campaigners for the elderly criticised Scotland's health authorities after it emerged 110 people had died from malnutrition in Scottish hospitals last year – more than double the figure ten years ago.

mitted the true scale of the problem could be even worse as the Scottish Government does not have statistics for those who die in care homes from malnutrition. The most recent figures for England showed 242 people had died in hospitals south of the Border from malnutrition in 2007.

 

[California Girl]

You can't pay much attention to California Girl. She has nothing better to do then post on this site 40+ times a day with 98% of her posts being hateful and ignorant. She may be representative of many on this board who idolize her, but she does not represent the views of logical thinking, compassionate Americans.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and suggest that you pulled that stat out of your ass.... Unless of course, you'd like to prove it. Flattering tho' it is, I am not actually the topic. Try to focus, just once, otherwise we're gonna have to call whine one one and get you a waaaaaaabulance. Idiot.

The 40+ posts per day? That's verifiable and pathetic.
The 98% being hate-filled....well that's certainly not scientific but anyone who's posted more then 10 times on this site would have a hard time disagreeing with it.

The guy comes here, asking honest questions, ASKING to not start a fight and you act like a bitch toward him in the very first post. YOU made this about you. Get over yourself.

No, the 98% being "hate-filled". Prove it. Of course, firstly, you'd have to understand what "hate-filled" actually means. It does not mean 'I don't like that post so therefore it is "hate-filled". Fucking idiot - and no, that's not a 'hate-filled' statement, it's an opinion, based on the fact that you make accusations that you can't back up. But it does not mean I hate you.

 

[tinydancer]

Bloke, I wouldn't listen to all of these Americans. They are conservatives mostly, and happen to be extremely rude. You were just wondering, and of course California Girl, who perpetually has a large, prickly rod up her ass, can't remain civil even when the OP states there is no arguement being seeked, only information.

I will say this: As an american, I think it is great that we are pushing for healthcare. There tons of people, mostly on the low-end of things, that don't have money for private health insurance, and get left out. People are mad about it because they don't want to care about anybody but themselves. They think it is 'unfair' to lend their income to anyone, under the guise that it is 'socialist,' but really, they are just selfish and use socialism as a scapegoat to mask their true motivations for denying allegiance to the cause. Of course there are going to be huge snags at first. It is a massive undertaking- to administer national healthcare to 280 million people, but Obama is trying it, and it is commendable, and he should be applauded for his valiant effort, but no, all these conservatives care about is THEM. THEIR money. How they work SO hard everyday and bla bla bla, wha wha wha. I think it's cool we are doing it. It will be expensive, but we'll be a better country for it.

It's funny the CG lists all of these negative contingencies of abuse, such as abortions. Yeah, of course SOME of the healthcare will go towards things none of us would wish to pay for, but most of it will go to people who really need, yet because a few will get things we don't like, we should abolish the whole thing? Again, this kind of illogical sentiment only leads to the conclusion that there are selfish underpinnings to their motives for dissent, and as such, it shouldn't really be respected, because we should be looking out for eachother, especially when it comes to healthcare, if we are to call ourselves a 'great country.'

The NHS and the Canadian single payer system have failed on such a great level, all I can say is the OP is full of freaking shit.

And it's not free. You take the 50% plus tax rates and deal with it. And that's just the beginner....

 

[tinydancer]

Hi

I have a question on a subject that I am quite baffled on. I live in England where we have a public health service that is completely free at the point of delivery (the NHS). It is paid for out of taxation, government operated and available to everyone based on their medical needs. Private health care is available for anyone who wants it as well.

The NHS is the most cherished institution that exists in this country, and any political party openly calling for it's privatisation would be signing themselves into opposition forever.

So when I hear on the news the controversy that exists in the US about the healthcare reforms proposed by Obama (which actually appear quite modest in scope to me) I really can't understand what the fuss is about. Could someone please explain to me what it is that you fear in regards to these healthcare proposals?

I hope this thread can be kept civil as I am not here to start an argument. I just seek to understand the American mindset a bit more.

Thanks
Dave

Dude read the bill please, because or law makers haven't. Thanks

Be fair, Pix, he's British.... Even our own Senators didn't understand the Bill.... how the hell is a Brit gonna get it?

lol

Our most cherished institution is a pile of crap. Brits know they are in trouble now. The system is horrid.

 

[tinydancer]

How's this for exceptional health care in Britain?

y Stories
Wednesday, Oct 27 2010 9AM 13°C 12PM 15°C 5-Day Forecast
Starved to death in an NHS hospital: Damning inquiry highlights case of patient left without food for 26 days

By Michael Lea
Last updated at 2:17 AM on 9th January 2009

A vulnerable patient starved to death in an NHS hospital after 26 days without proper nourishment.

Martin Ryan, 43, had suffered a stroke which left him unable to swallow.

But a 'total breakdown in communication' meant he was never fitted with a feeding tube. It was one of a number of horrific cases where the NHS fatally failed patients with learning difficulties, a health watchdog is expected to rule later this month.
Tragedy: Martin Ryan died starving and 'in agony' in an NHS hospital after a 'communication breakdown' meant he was not fitted with a feeding tube

Tragedy: Martin Ryan died starving and 'in agony' in an NHS hospital after a 'communication breakdown' meant he was not fitted with a feeding tube

Emma Kemp, 26, was denied cancer treatment that could have saved her life, while 30-year-old Mark Cannon died two months after being admitted to hospital with a broken leg.

Three other cases followed similar patterns, with warnings ignored or problems missed until it was too late, often because the patients had difficulty communicating.

Ann Abraham, the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman, is expected to deliver a withering verdict in her report.

Sources said the overall picture of neglect that it paints is devastating.

Campaigners will seize on the findings as evidence of a wider problem of institutional discrimination in the health service.

The father of one man who died, who was just 20, said: 'People like my son are treated as less than human'.

The six cases were first highlighted by the disability charity Mencap in a report entitled Death By Indifference.

Mr Ryan died in Kingston-Upon-Thames - where an internal inquiry found doctors had thought nurses were feeding him through a tube

Mr Ryan died in Kingston hospital - where an internal inquiry found doctors had thought nurses were feeding him through a tube

The charity, which has complained of 'widespread ignorance' in the NHS, says many more cases have emerged since then.

Sources close to the Ombudsman's inquiry said its findings will vindicate Mencap's attack almost totally.

One said: 'The Ombudsman will issue a damning verdict in most, though not all, of the cases.

'In some cases the NHS's treatment of vulnerable people was quite shocking - a patient effectively being starved to death is indefensible.
Enlarge case studies.jpg

'There will be a lot for NHS trusts and politicians to chew over.'

The report will intensify pressure on ministers to rapidly ensure tighter procedures for the care of such vulnerable patients.

Tory spokesman Anne Milton said: 'Unfortunately we are still seeing some pretty shocking cases where people's needs have been neglected and they are not gaining equal access to the NHS.

'Although these might be isolated incidents, every case like this is one too many.

'This is another deeply worrying example of how the Government has yet to get to grips with providing first-class care for everyone, including people with disabilities.'

Mr Ryan, who had Down's syndrome, died in hospital in Kingston-upon-Thames.

An internal inquiry by the hospital found that doctors had thought nurses were feeding him through a tube in his nose.

By the time they found out this was not happening, he was too weak for an operation to insert a tube into his stomach.

He died in agony five days later.

Mr Ryan's distraught family, from Richmond, South-west London, are convinced he could have been saved by the correct treatment.

One relative said of him: 'Martin will always be the light of my life. He had a quirky sense of humour and oodles of charm. He was often smiling - he loved to go out, liked the movement of the coach and listening to the music.'

Death by Indifference was published in 2007 as part of Mencap's long-running Treat Me Right! campaign for better healthcare for people with learning disabilities.

Mark Goldring, Mencap's chief executive, said: 'Our report exposed the horrific deaths of six people with a learning disability who died unnecessarily in NHS care.

'We have fought and will continue our fight for justice for their families.

'The Ombudsman's reports must condemn the appalling failings of the NHS in these six cases.

'They need to make it impossible for people with a learning disability to continue to die unnecessarily. A failure to do this would be irrational and perverse.

'The reports have a duty to challenge complacency, where it has been shown to exist within the health service, when treating people with a learning disability and must hold individuals to account for their actions.'

The Ombudsman's inquiry, which covers just the six cases, will mirror the findings of a wider investigation into the treatment of vulnerable patients which was ordered by the Government after Mencap's report came out.

Chaired by Sir Jonathan Michael, a former chief executive of Guy's and St Thomas' NHS Foundation Trust, it found that the deaths highlighted by the charity were 'not isolated' incidents.

A spokesman for the Ombudsman declined to comment before the report is published.

There are 1.5million people with a learning disability in the UK.

Mencap says most are treated as ' different' and do not have the same control over their own lives as the rest of society.

Earlier this week the Mail revealed the growing scandal of 'avoidable deaths' in the NHS.

Figures showed that the number of patients killed by hospital blunders has soared by 60 per cent in two years to a frightening 3,645.

Swell. Libs are so swell that they cannot and will not recognize a failure on such a grand scale from Europe and Canada admit immigration is not working as we stand here.

 

[California Girl]

Dude read the bill please, because or law makers haven't. Thanks

Be fair, Pix, he's British.... Even our own Senators didn't understand the Bill.... how the hell is a Brit gonna get it?

lol

Our most cherished institution is a pile of crap. Brits know they are in trouble now. The system is horrid.

Certainly the NHS is FURBARed. Worse still, their government cannot address the issues because the Brits are too damned protective of their treasured system - no matter how bad it is.

If I were David Cameron, I would have put it on the list for review along with the rest of the public sector. If the Brits were honest, they would take a hard look at the NHS and cut the crap out of it. It is no longer the vital service it once was, it is a monstrosity that provides 'everything' to 'everyone'. And the country cannot afford it.

 

[Greenbeard]

Mandates that have and will cause increased costs instead of the Lower costs we were told to expect.

You've been told what the cost control element of the law are. The coverage and comprehensive expansions will cause an initial bump in spending (mostly due to an influx of federal money but also some private), at which point things will settle down again.

The cost control mechanisms themselves are going to take time; they're not going to transform anything in the first five years of the law's full operation. But they're there. Now if you'd like to see a more immediate crack at prices, through a public option or all-payer rate setting system or the like--well, hey, we're on the same page. But for now I'll take the long-term cost curbing elements.

A bill that was sold as lowering the budget that is actually going to add to the Deficit each year, and only sort of looked Deficit neutral when you counted 10 years of taxes to only 6 years of services.

This makes no sense. You're trying to imply that in the second full 10-year budget window the fiscal picture looks worse when in fact it looks substantially better. The deficit reductions from the law grow as time goes on, primarily due to the excise tax (which plays very little role in the first budget window) and the growth rate of the subsidies.

500 Billion raped out of an already failing Medicare budget.

Medicare wasn't intended to be corporate welfare, nor will its DSH payments need to be maintained at their current levels as the number of uninsured drops. So I assume you're talking specifically about the market basket updates--that's what you consider "raping" a budget?

32 Million new customers added to a broken system with a Shortage of Doctors and no real plan to fix it.

I'm loathe to get into a complex issue on here because I don't believe it has ever proven to be worth it. But I'll note that while it's clear from that other thread you believe the problem is actually a lack of doctors, that's not primarily where the shortages come from. The problem is the distribution, both in terms of geography and type. We have a shortage of primary care doctors because people aren't choosing to be primary care doctors, not because we don't have the capacity or enough candidates who want to be doctors.

Why don't people choose to be primary care doctors? Because the incentives aren't working out correctly; there's a study out just this week showing specialists are making double what primary care doctors make. There's a reason graduating law students try to get plum jobs at giant law firms, regardless of whether they'd rather be doing something a little nobler but less well-paid: they have huge debts that need to be paid down. The same factor is at play when med students are choosing their path.

And yes, the law contains steps to start addressing that. Though, for what it's worth, Goodman and Fischer have argued forcefully (and I think fairly convincingly) that the problem ultimately isn't about numbers, it's about the organization of the delivery system. We have an uncoordinated, exceedingly inefficient delivery system. Their contention is that without addressing that, no amount of attention to workforce issues will ever eradicate the "shortage." And certainly we know the new law pays lots and lots of attention to improving the delivery system.

Yeah whats to fear.

Fear for fear's sake isn't worth much.

 

[TossObama]

Bloke, in England patients are provided medical care. What Obama and his band of thugs has done is withdraw medical care from Medicare patients under the guise of "health care". That man appointed a team of highly unethical people to the oversight committee who makes virtually all of the decisions on what patient can have medical care and what patient must be left to die. One of the people on that committee happens to be Ezekiel Emanuel -- a doctor who has never ever had a successful medical practice because his philosophy is to medically murder and/or withhold treatment. He furthermore is of the opinion that anyone holding a Medicare card is a human owned by the government and therefore upon death that committee has the right to harvest that body without permission of the family or prior permission of the dead person. Don't be fooled by Ezekiel's impressive educational background. Likewise for all the goons sitting on that committee. Their unethical ideas have already begun making hash out of our Medicare plans and people are already dying because of the decisions made by those faulty, backwards, unethical, criminal committee humans. We happen to be Americans, not a bunch of third world people who cannot defend themselves and who cannot correct massive problems in their own government. Obama doesn't seem to get that fact. Most assuredly his "friends" don't get it either. Anyone who withdraws from the so-called "Medicare" is being told they have to refund all the money paid out by Medicare. They don't have to do any such thing, but that scare tactic is being dumped on a lot of people by the Obama factions. I have deliberately dis-enrolled from Medicare because I absolutely refuse to do anything that either pays for or brings that slop sitting on that committee into my life for any reason. There is NO medical care in Medicare. None. It's now a system of so-called "counseling" and medical testing that simply verifies for that committee how long you are likely to live without medical care -- care they are deliberately withholding. You will also note, if you check, that not one member of that committee or one member of Obama's family is bound to the decisions of that slimy bunch sitting on that committee. That committee was funded for a trillion dollars or so, and it's goal? To "save" something like 3 million dollars in Medicare costs. Since that doesn't make any sense at all, I tend to think "saving money" not their goal at all. The goal is to kill as many Americans as possible. A new twist on nazi and Chicago style thuggery behavior is all it is. They obviously think we are going to pay our own executioners and line up willingly like sweet lambs to be killed.

 

[Bern80]

Firstly, what Obama has done is nothing like your NHS.

Secondly, your NHS is adequate - nothing more.

Thirdly, your beloved NHS is the fourth largest employer IN THE WORLD. For a tiny little island... Can you imagine what size a similar organization would be in the US?

Fourthly, the US has a Constitution. That document tells the Federal Government what it is allowed to do. Forcing Americans to buy a product or service is not contained within that document so his crappy idea to force us all to buy insurance is unConstitutional.

Fifthly, what the hell business is it of yours what we do?

1) Ok, but the idea is similar no? To make healthcare affordable to everyone?

2) Well it's done well to save my life in the past, as well as several friends and family members. Also, I don't believe the US has a life expectancy any higher than here.

3) Is that a bad thing?

4) Fair enough on that point. Can't say I understand the ins and outs of your constitution.

5) Why so tetchy?

You can't pay much attention to California Girl. She has nothing better to do then post on this site 40+ times a day with 98% of her posts being hateful and ignorant. She may be representative of many on this board who idolize her, but she does not represent the views of logical thinking, compassionate Americans.

I always find it amusing when illogical people claim to be logical. Any logical thinking American ought to be concerned any time government takes their freedom away, don't you think?

 

[RDD_1210]

1) Ok, but the idea is similar no? To make healthcare affordable to everyone?

2) Well it's done well to save my life in the past, as well as several friends and family members. Also, I don't believe the US has a life expectancy any higher than here.

3) Is that a bad thing?

4) Fair enough on that point. Can't say I understand the ins and outs of your constitution.

5) Why so tetchy?

You can't pay much attention to California Girl. She has nothing better to do then post on this site 40+ times a day with 98% of her posts being hateful and ignorant. She may be representative of many on this board who idolize her, but she does not represent the views of logical thinking, compassionate Americans.

I always find it amusing when illogical people claim to be logical. Any logical thinking American ought to be concerned any time government takes their freedom away, don't you think?

Sure, what freedom was taken away?

 

[Bern80]

You can't pay much attention to California Girl. She has nothing better to do then post on this site 40+ times a day with 98% of her posts being hateful and ignorant. She may be representative of many on this board who idolize her, but she does not represent the views of logical thinking, compassionate Americans.

I always find it amusing when illogical people claim to be logical. Any logical thinking American ought to be concerned any time government takes their freedom away, don't you think?

Sure, what freedom was taken away?

My freedom to choose whether I want to purchase health insurance or not.

 

[RDD_1210]

I always find it amusing when illogical people claim to be logical. Any logical thinking American ought to be concerned any time government takes their freedom away, don't you think?

Sure, what freedom was taken away?

My freedom to choose whether I want to purchase health insurance or not.

No, your freedom to choose is still there. Only difference is now when you choose not to insure yourself you get fined for it, because your "choice" is affecting everyone who does pay their way.

 

[Bern80]

Sure, what freedom was taken away?

My freedom to choose whether I want to purchase health insurance or not.

No, your freedom to choose is still there. Only difference is now when you choose not to insure yourself you get fined for it, because your "choice" is affecting everyone who does pay their way.

So predictable. Why do you assume that if someone doesn't have insurance that they don't have to pay for service?

Either you have such a hard on for Obamacare that you refuse to see the bigger picture in terms of govenrment control of your life or you apparently don't care that government has that much control over your life.