What Is Happening In Iraq

[Annie]

This is how it will go down. Many links and the reason we will overcome:

http://instapundit.com/archives/018050.php

September 26, 2004
THIS DOESN'T SEEM ALL THAT TRAGIC, TO ME:


A car bomb in the Syrian capital, Damascus, has killed a senior member of Palestinian militant group Hamas. Izz El-Deen Sheikh Khalil died after the bomb exploded in his car, completely destroying it.


Perhaps some of the Iranian mullahs who are supporting Sadr might be next? I don't know, but when you put it together with this story it gets interesting:


An Arab state provided Israel with valuable intelligence on the Palestinian terrorist group Hamas and its leadership overseas, the London-based Arabic daily al-Hayat reported Friday.

According to the newspaper, an intelligence agency belonging to an Arab state supplied Israel with intelligence on Hamas leaders living in Beirut, Damascus, Tehran and Khartoum at the request of Mossad head Meir Dagan.


Hmm. Meanwhile, in a gratifying, but probably unrelated, development we have this report:


KARACHI, Pakistan (AP) - Paramilitary police may have killed a suspected top al-Qaida operative Sunday in a four-hour gunbattle during a raid on a house in southern Pakistan that led to the arrest of two other men, a senior Pakistani intelligence official said.

The official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the dead man was thought to be Amjad Hussain Farooqi, who was wanted for his alleged role in the kidnapping and beheading of Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl in 2002.

Other intelligence officials said earlier that the raid was launched after police received a tip that Farooqi was hiding in the house.


He will not be missed.


posted at 03:19 PM by Glenn Reynolds

 

[Zxenith]

Let me ask you, who do you think we are helping in Iraq? Would it be contradictory to ask also who we have killed and maimed in Iraq? Are we in Iraq for financial/corporate reasons? If not why are so many companies flocking over there when receiving lucrative "re-building" contracts.

I would like to know from people with different points of view from myself, to define a terrorist in Iraq, and how this differs from Iraqis who hate us and attack us? Define what a successful outcome in Iraq would be, and lastly define a democracy, and why/why not the current "Democratic" system set up by the United States truely is a democracy.

 

[007]

Let me ask you, who do you think we are helping in Iraq? Would it be contradictory to ask also who we have killed and maimed in Iraq? Are we in Iraq for financial/corporate reasons? If not why are so many companies flocking over there when receiving lucrative "re-building" contracts.

I would like to know from people with different points of view from myself, to define a terrorist in Iraq, and how this differs from Iraqis who hate us and attack us? Define what a successful outcome in Iraq would be, and lastly define a democracy, and why/why not the current "Democratic" system set up by the United States truely is a democracy.

While you're at it, why don't you just ask God for a one on one interview, and then you can ask him, after he's told you the meaning of life...

 

[Annie]

Let me ask you, who do you think we are helping in Iraq? Would it be contradictory to ask also who we have killed and maimed in Iraq? Are we in Iraq for financial/corporate reasons? If not why are so many companies flocking over there when receiving lucrative "re-building" contracts.

I would like to know from people with different points of view from myself, to define a terrorist in Iraq, and how this differs from Iraqis who hate us and attack us? Define what a successful outcome in Iraq would be, and lastly define a democracy, and why/why not the current "Democratic" system set up by the United States truely is a democracy.

How can we know 'different'? If you don't tell us your point of view?

 

[5stringJeff]

Let me ask you, who do you think we are helping in Iraq? Would it be contradictory to ask also who we have killed and maimed in Iraq? Are we in Iraq for financial/corporate reasons? If not why are so many companies flocking over there when receiving lucrative "re-building" contracts.

I would like to know from people with different points of view from myself, to define a terrorist in Iraq, and how this differs from Iraqis who hate us and attack us? Define what a successful outcome in Iraq would be, and lastly define a democracy, and why/why not the current "Democratic" system set up by the United States truely is a democracy.

Well, Zxenith, I'm sure that you have already formulated answers to these questions... why not fill us in on your opinions? Though from the tone of your post, you sound like a no-war-at-all-costs, anti-corporation Naderite. But I could be wrong.

 

[007]

Well, Zxenith, I'm sure that you have already formulated answers to these questions... why not fill us in on your opinions? Though from the tone of your post, you sound like a no-war-at-all-costs, anti-corporation Naderite. But I could be wrong.

It think your assessment is right on.

 

[Zxenith]

Yes, I do not believe we should have went to war. The WMD rant that Bush used to lead us into war was a lie, and the urgency for invading the country was questionable, at best.

I do not believe we are in Iraq for all those feel-good quotes that Bush would like Americans to believe. We are not in Iraq for the Iraqi people. That is, of course, my perspective, and more importantly it seems to be the same way most Iraqis perceive it as well. That may explain why the "Insurgents" attack us us on a daily basis. I think its scary how this administration seems to categorize anyone who doesn't share the view of theirs as "terrorists". That might explain why so many "terrorists" are dying in Iraq, when I seemed to have the idea tha terrorists referred to a very small percentage of people, nothing resembling the thousands of people that the United States continue to battle against in Iraq.

But, in all honesty, can you really expect the citizens in Iraq to not hate us, after all the innocent people we killed or maimed down there?

 

[dilloduck]

Yes, I do not believe we should have went to war. The WMD rant that Bush used to lead us into war was a lie, and the urgency for invading the country was questionable, at best.

I do not believe we are in Iraq for all those feel-good quotes that Bush would like Americans to believe. We are not in Iraq for the Iraqi people. That is, of course, my perspective, and more importantly it seems to be the same way most Iraqis perceive it as well. That may explain why the "Insurgents" attack us us on a daily basis. I think its scary how this administration seems to categorize anyone who doesn't share the view of theirs as "terrorists". That might explain why so many "terrorists" are dying in Iraq, when I seemed to have the idea tha terrorists referred to a very small percentage of people, nothing resembling the thousands of people that the United States continue to battle against in Iraq.

But, in all honesty, can you really expect the citizens in Iraq to not hate us, after all the innocent people we killed or maimed down there?

In all honesty, you are way out of your league. :bat:

 

[Bonnie]

Yes, I do not believe we should have went to war. The WMD rant that Bush used to lead us into war was a lie, and the urgency for invading the country was questionable, at best.

I do not believe we are in Iraq for all those feel-good quotes that Bush would like Americans to believe. We are not in Iraq for the Iraqi people. That is, of course, my perspective, and more importantly it seems to be the same way most Iraqis perceive it as well. That may explain why the "Insurgents" attack us us on a daily basis. I think its scary how this administration seems to categorize anyone who doesn't share the view of theirs as "terrorists". That might explain why so many "terrorists" are dying in Iraq, when I seemed to have the idea tha terrorists referred to a very small percentage of people, nothing resembling the thousands of people that the United States continue to battle against in Iraq.

But, in all honesty, can you really expect the citizens in Iraq to not hate us, after all the innocent people we killed or maimed down there?

Why don't you concentrate on the other 95% of the country that is happy we are there, because now they don't have to worry about their hands getting cut off , and tortured, by Hussein or his nutty megolamaniac sons? How about the fact that women will now have a say in the political process, and for the first time in years have basic civil and human rights. How about the Iraqis who are increasing in number who are making money from very sucessful busineses. How about asking the children who for the most part get to got to school in peace. How about better infrastructure, roads, buildings, the fact that Iraq will soon be making money from their vast oil reserves, that Hussein was pocketing for his luxurious many palaces and cars. It's hysterical how you see what was going on in Iraq before as much better than the bright future that Iraqi's now have to look foward to. There is always a cost for freedom, that's life!! Yes collateral damage happens it's sad, and in a perfect world there would be none. Just the fact that the terrorists are trying so hard to disrupt the progress and elections tells you all you need to know about who is winning and who is loosing. I can't beleive that even needed to be said

 

[CSM]

What is happening in Iraq? Well, for one thing, what we dont see is headlines like this: 25 MILLION IRAQI CITIZENS DID NOT ATTACK ANYONE TODAY.

As of July 2004, the population of Iraq is listed as 25, 374, 691. Most of them are going on about their business trying to make a living, go to school, etc. We do not see headlines detailing the good things and good people over there, either Iraqi or coalition. It is much more "news worthy" to detail the problems of a reborn country and list the considered opinion of some talking head who may or may not know what the hell they are talking about and who may or may not have a personal axe to grind.

I have no exact figures to back this up, but it seems to me that a lot more innocent Iraqis are meeting their demise at the hands of the terrorists and many more at the hands of the former regime than have been killed by US and coalition forces. Anyone got any figures?

 

[Bonnie]

Here is some unemployment info on Iraq

www.nationalreview.com/script/printpage.asp?ref=/robbins/robbins200409240828.asp

 

[Zxenith]

I am out of my league? What sort of reply is that? Does that mean you can not make an argument for your position? By all means do, just keep the stupid responses to yourself.

What is happening in Iraq? Well, for one thing, what we dont see is headlines like this: 25 MILLION IRAQI CITIZENS DID NOT ATTACK ANYONE TODAY.

No, nor would I expect to see 250+ million people from the United States attack an occupier with weapons and a military so vastly overpowering their own that they had little to no chance of winning either. If anything, can we agree that the citizens of Iraq are not nearly as well trained and geared as us, and that this would scare most of them from not standing up.

I have no exact figures to back this up, but it seems to me that a lot more innocent Iraqis are meeting their demise at the hands of the terrorists and many more at the hands of the former regime than have been killed by US and coalition forces. Anyone got any figures?

I agree that alot of innocent people have been killed as a result of terrorism. I absolutely agree. These acts are directly related to the United States involvement in Iraq, and the attacks seems to be focused against the rebuilding of an "Iraqi army". I think it is sad that so many innocent people are dying as a result of it. On the same note, Americans have bombed and killed or maimed tens of thousands of citizens, and regardless of their reasoning, it will not undo the hatred that has been created from it.

There is always a cost for freedom, that's life!!

Yeah sure. But as long as its not your life, I am sure you will keep making such inept opinions. Its amazing how quickly someone with that notion will change their toon if they were directly impacted by this. I am sure your opinion would not differ if you lost an arm, or a leg for Bush's glorious war. The difference between our views, is that I do not need to lose a family member or be directly impacted myself to realize that this was wrong, you do. Guess things most be cozy on that pedistool you are standing on.

 

[Bonnie]

I am out of my league? What sort of reply is that? Does that mean you can not make an argument for your position? By all means do, just keep the stupid responses to yourself.



No, nor would I expect to see 250+ million people from the United States attack an occupier with weapons and a military so vastly overpowering their own that they had little to no chance of winning either. If anything, can we agree that the citizens of Iraq are not nearly as well trained and geared as us, and that this would scare most of them from not standing up.



I agree that alot of innocent people have been killed as a result of terrorism. I absolutely agree. These acts are directly related to the United States involvement in Iraq, and the attacks seems to be focused against the rebuilding of an "Iraqi army". I think it is sad that so many innocent people are dying as a result of it. On the same note, Americans have bombed and killed or maimed tens of thousands of citizens, and regardless of their reasoning, it will not undo the hatred that has been created from it.

Yeah sure. But as long as its not your life, I am sure you will keep making such inept opinions. Its amazing how quickly someone with that notion will change their toon if they were directly impacted by this. I am sure your opinion would not differ if you lost an arm, or a leg for Bush's glorious war. The difference between our views, is that I do not need to lose a family member or be directly impacted myself to realize that this was wrong, you do. Guess things most be cozy on that pedistool you are standing on.

Well a lot of us here in NY were impacted WAY before we ever invaded Iraq buy simply going to work. No one ever said war was glorious but the outcome of this war can be a positive one for Iraqi's and us, and if you are going to make such sweeping assertions and statements you really need to back up what you say with facts. These terrorists would hate us and strike us here whether we are in Iraq or not. They waged this war on us on our own soil.......your timetable is backwards on this.......Try going back about 30 years, because that's when Islamist extremeists declared war on The U.S. because they want to take over the whole world with their hateful jealousy and religious fanaticism......We have discussed this often on this board, so you are not saying anything new here.............Got anything else you can actually prove??????????
And don't even try saying Iraq has nothing to do with terrorists

 

[Zxenith]

We are not in Iraq because of terrorism, we are in there because George W. Bush became president, and he wants to finish where his dad left off. Bush just used the fear that Americans had for terrorism as a ploy to get us involved.

These terrorists would hate us and strike us here whether we are in Iraq or not. They waged this war on us on our own soil.......your timetable is backwards on this.......Try going back about 30 years, because that's when Islamist extremeists declared war on The U.S. because they want to take over the whole world with their hateful jealousy and religious fanaticism......

Just a guess, but I am thinking that our involvement with Israel had an impact on how extremists began their war with the United States. If you disagree please explain why

Got anything else you can actually prove??????????

Why would I have to prove anything, it seems your position is wrong to me, and whenever I dispute it, you all seem to go into a flame war without even trying to back up your position or views. Its kind of sad that your political stance has clouded your judgement on everything. Just because you are a republican doesn't mean you have to blindly accept every moronic thing Bush does as gospil. The whole party seems rediculous to me, but thats a whole topic in itself. All the blind sucking up to Bush is just sad. I swear if Bush were to have murdered a nun, some people would find a logical way of justifying it. Its scary.

 

[Bonnie]

We are not in Iraq because of terrorism, we are in there because George W. Bush became president, and he wants to finish where his dad left off. Bush just used the fear that Americans had for terrorism as a ploy to get us involved.



Just a guess, but I am thinking that our involvement with Israel had an impact on how extremists began their war with the United States. If you disagree please explain why



Why would I have to prove anything, it seems your position is wrong to me, and whenever I dispute it, you all seem to go into a flame war without even trying to back up your position or views. Its kind of sad that your political stance has clouded your judgement on everything. Just because you are a republican doesn't mean you have to blindly accept every moronic thing Bush does as gospil. The whole party seems rediculous to me, but thats a whole topic in itself. All the blind sucking up to Bush is just sad. I swear if Bush were to have murdered a nun, some people would find a logical way of justifying it. Its scary.

Well just because you are a Liberal/Socialist doesn't mean you have to believe everything Mike Moron says either And again you completely side step what people who disagree with you have to say to you, again where is your proof that Bush was just settling a score???? Sorry just because you say so doesn't necessarily mean we have to buy it.

 

[CSM]

We are not in Iraq because of terrorism, we are in there because George W. Bush became president, and he wants to finish where his dad left off. Bush just used the fear that Americans had for terrorism as a ploy to get us involved.



Just a guess, but I am thinking that our involvement with Israel had an impact on how extremists began their war with the United States. If you disagree please explain why



Why would I have to prove anything, it seems your position is wrong to me, and whenever I dispute it, you all seem to go into a flame war without even trying to back up your position or views. Its kind of sad that your political stance has clouded your judgement on everything. Just because you are a republican doesn't mean you have to blindly accept every moronic thing Bush does as gospil. The whole party seems rediculous to me, but thats a whole topic in itself. All the blind sucking up to Bush is just sad. I swear if Bush were to have murdered a nun, some people would find a logical way of justifying it. Its scary.

Why should you have to prove anything??? I suppose it is just fine that you can come to this board and make statements without substance, without trying to back up your position and views. Then you have the nerve to demand that we back up our positions and statements.

Is there terrorism in Iraq? Yes, no question. Are all the deaths of the innocents directly attributable to the US. NO, DEFINITELY NOT! Saddam has filled many a mass grave before we even got there and since our invasion the "insurgents", as they are so lovingly called, have done their best to blow up, execute, and otherwise kill Iraqi citizens. You want proof of those statements? Read/watch/listen to the news every day. Do they blame the US for it all? OF COURSE THEY DO! Do you really expect them to stand up and take responsibility for their actions?

As for my judgement being clouded, maybe it is, but then again, I have no desire to be right and dead or under the heel of some fanatical despotic religion.

 

[deaddude]

Zxenith, I am against the war. Just wanted to clear that up in case you thought you were the only one on this board. Ok just thought id offer you some friendly advice.

1. This is not a liberal friendly forum. This is not to say that the conservatives here will flame you every time you post, most of them won't. This is to say that random Bush Bashing will not earn you a pat on the back.

2. If you make an assertion/accusation you would do well to provide a link to back it up.

3. Be civil, you will last longer.

 

[Bonnie]

Zxenith, I am against the war. Just wanted to clear that up in case you thought you were the only one on this board. Ok just thought id offer you some friendly advice.

1. This is not a liberal friendly forum. This is not to say that the conservatives here will flame you every time you post, most of them won't. This is to say that random Bush Bashing will not earn you a pat on the back.

2. If you make an assertion/accusation you would do well to provide a link to back it up.


3. Be civil, you will last longer.

You said that well! Id like to add that not every single opinion posted here can be proven beyond all doubt, but most that post- at least- make the effort to back up what they think with some kind information to support their claim, otherwise all we are doing is arguing.

 

[CSM]

You said that well! Id like to add that not every single opinion posted here can be proven beyond all doubt, but most that post- at least- make the effort to back up what they think with some kind information to support their claim, otherwise all we are doing is arguing.

Also, if it's an opinion just say so. I would caution that just because everyone has an opinion does not mean that all opinions are "correct" nor that anyone holding an opposing opinion is a "moron".

 

[wade]

Why don't you concentrate on the other 95% of the country that is happy we are there, because now they don't have to worry about their hands getting cut off , and tortured, by Hussein or his nutty megolamaniac sons? How about the fact that women will now have a say in the political process, and for the first time in years have basic civil and human rights. How about the Iraqis who are increasing in number who are making money from very sucessful busineses. How about asking the children who for the most part get to got to school in peace. How about better infrastructure, roads, buildings, the fact that Iraq will soon be making money from their vast oil reserves, that Hussein was pocketing for his luxurious many palaces and cars. It's hysterical how you see what was going on in Iraq before as much better than the bright future that Iraqi's now have to look foward to. There is always a cost for freedom, that's life!! Yes collateral damage happens it's sad, and in a perfect world there would be none. Just the fact that the terrorists are trying so hard to disrupt the progress and elections tells you all you need to know about who is winning and who is loosing. I can't beleive that even needed to be said

LOL - 95%

Try more like 15% - those who have gained power rather than lost it.

Don't you watch anything but Fox News? The great majority of the Iraqi people are glad that Saddam is out of power but now that he is they want the USA out of their country now.

Wade.