What is enlightenment?

[catzmeow]

A button for me is when someone is deliberately cruel to another--and enjoys causing suffering. I'm working with opening up to the truth of how things are in myself and others.

Maybe you should first change yourself, then work on changing others. Like, for instance, when YOU are deliberately cruel, and attempt to cause suffering, and clearly enjoy it. Have you worked on eliminating that behavior from yourself?

 

[Sky Dancer]

they don't relate imo.

one can be enlightened on what is really going on....but not be a part of it, or included in on it.

care

Care--

Lama Tsering made this very bold statement: Enlightenment is Total Inclusivity. What she's referring to, is that most of the time we are rejecting how things are. We are trying to manipulate other people and the universe. We make value judgments--this is good, that is bad, etc.

Lama Tsering says that enlightenment is inclusive. Nothing is left out. There is just vast open presence of awareness.

Others may call that God. Some may call it Buddha. Some would say it's enlightenment.

It's a moment to moment 24/7 experience of inclusivity--no separation.

I've been reflecting on this.

sky,

i guess i have problems with the term total inclusiveness....

to me, this means you are a PART of it....even if it is EVIL.....I don't see it that way....I think one can be enlightened and know what is going on around them with others....whether it be evil or good....but still not be included in the evilness that others are trying to prevail....

Enlightenment means awareness of all to me, but not necessarily included in all.

Care

Care--

I have a similar problem with this. It's a subtle and nuanced topic. It's not easy to discuss it--even among Buddhists.

It's safe to say, that when I acknowledge a moment of anger or rage, and I don't reject it, I just accept it, include it in the field of awareness--then like the clouds in the sky--the feeling frees itself.

If I grasp the anger, feed it, speak and act on it, then it is not freed. Same thing if I push it away and don't acknowledge the raw truth of it.

If I acknowledge it, as I did yesterday, I watched it dissolve. It made me feel reflective--and so I started a couple of threads--one about hate and this one about enlightenment.

 

[catzmeow]

If I acknowledge it, as I did yesterday, I watched it dissolve. It made me feel reflective--and so I started a couple of threads--one about hate and this one about enlightenment.

Your capacity for self-delusion is staggering.

It's a shame that your enlightenment doesn't extend to self-awareness.

 

[Anguille]

If I acknowledge it, as I did yesterday, I watched it dissolve. It made me feel reflective--and so I started a couple of threads--one about hate and this one about enlightenment.

Just so long as they don't suck you down into their morass.

Though lotuses do grow from sludge.

 

[Sky Dancer]

There is a clarity to anger, I'll give you that, catz.

 

[Sky Dancer]

If I acknowledge it, as I did yesterday, I watched it dissolve. It made me feel reflective--and so I started a couple of threads--one about hate and this one about enlightenment.

Just so long as they don't suck you down into their morass.

Though lotuses do grow from sludge.

The mud or sludge is the truth of the passing clouds of anger and hatred. Noticing them without pushing the anger or hatred away, but not acting it out either, is a moment of enlightenment.

It's a moment of total inclusivity.

Why should I get angry when myself or anyone else has the impulse to be deliberately cruel? Aren't we all in the same boat? With the right causes and conditions, anger and hatred arise.

I don't enjoy it when I feel this way. It makes me sick. When I have the patience to bear through it, without acting it out, it passes.

If you stare at a wisp of a cloud it disappears. The same is true for anger, rage and hatred.

 

[Anguille]

If you stare at a wisp of a cloud it disappears. The same is true for anger, rage and hatred.

I like that metaphor.

We all have the capacity to become anger junkies, rage-a-holics. We all have the capacity not to as well.



Here's where A B and C all jump in to call me holier than thou.

 

[michiganFats]

Actually Ang, you make some good points. You should stay in this thread and elaborate....for a long time.

 

[Sky Dancer]

We're all in the same boat, Anguille, we just forget that we are. We are all human beings. We all have Buddha nature. We don't know that we do. We can't see it in ourselves or others.

That's how we fuck up.

 

[Anguille]

Actually Ang, you make some good points. You should stay in this thread and elaborate....for a long time.

Not unless I can keep you and speedy here within eyesight!!!!

 

[editec]

As I understand Buddhism, their believe is that all suffering comes from desire.

But to live is to want.

Hence they apparently think that enlightenment comes to those who accept what is and desire nothing.

I presume this means that the most enlightened things in the universe, those thing which are a peace and are one with that universe...basically that means they are inanimate objects.

Rock on, says I.

That means that total enlightenment comes to us all at death.

My near death experience, once I'd given up trying not to die and had taken my first breath of water, was fairly enlightening, I must say

When your body starts shutting down, you realize how much work living really had been all along.

Death is nirvana judging from my brush with it.

As to total acceptance?

Not something I think people can attain as long as they're stuck in these needy bodies.

 

[michiganFats]

I like the take some of my New-Agey friends have. They think that enlightenment is the process of learning all you can learn in the physical realm, so that you do not need to return and you would become a being of light.

 

[KittenKoder]

Enlightenment is truly knowing you are right, so much that you don't have to defend your religious views or force them on others.

 

[dilloduck]

Enlightenment is truly knowing you are right, so much that you don't have to defend your religious views or force them on others.

how about you political views ? DO you still have to defend them?

 

[KittenKoder]

Enlightenment is truly knowing you are right, so much that you don't have to defend your religious views or force them on others.

how about you political views ? DO you still have to defend them?

You don't have to, but since which ones used will effect your life it won't make you less enlightened to argue those.

 

[dilloduck]

Enlightenment is truly knowing you are right, so much that you don't have to defend your religious views or force them on others.

how about you political views ? DO you still have to defend them?

You don't have to, but since which ones used will effect your life it won't make you less enlightened to argue those.

I thought it was all inclusive.

 

[random3434]

how about you political views ? DO you still have to defend them?

You don't have to, but since which ones used will effect your life it won't make you less enlightened to argue those.

I thought it was all inclusive.

You mean like this?


Sandals Montego Bay, Jamaica Resort - All Inclusive Resorts

 

[dilloduck]

you don't have to, but since which ones used will effect your life it won't make you less enlightened to argue those.

i thought it was all inclusive.

you mean like this?


sandals montego bay, jamaica resort - all inclusive resorts

bingo

 

[KittenKoder]

how about you political views ? DO you still have to defend them?

You don't have to, but since which ones used will effect your life it won't make you less enlightened to argue those.

I thought it was all inclusive.

You confuse me with someone else.

 

[Care4all]

You don't have to, but since which ones used will effect your life it won't make you less enlightened to argue those.

I thought it was all inclusive.

You mean like this?


Sandals Montego Bay, Jamaica Resort - All Inclusive Resorts

being at both, i personally think the luxury at Sandals Dunns River Falls All Inclusive is better than sandals montego bay's all inclusive!