What is "debate"? An FYI

[Foxfyre]

A little off topic:

I just put up a post. I then realized that this was in the Zone of Cleanliness. So, my edit was a delete.

Has any body else suddenly realized that -- oops -- this isn't the right place for this post?

That is the main bugaboo in this concept because it does require a lot of people used to a more combative style of participation to check to see what forum a thread is in before posting. A suggestion was made to have CDZ thread titles in a different color but I don't know if the software would facilitate that.

I am dealing with it personally by occasionally including a reminder in my threads so new participants coming in will be advised that it is a CDZ thread.

 

[MeBelle]

Well, I liked starting threads here that wouldn't get attacked or trolled. I won't be starting anymore

 

[Foxfyre]

Well, I liked starting threads here that wouldn't get attacked or trolled. I won't be starting anymore

? Have one of us suggested that the CDZ doesn't protect your threads from being attacked or trolled? That sure wasn't my intent. That is exactly why I'm spending most of my time in the CDZ the last couple of days. It has been great and I hope more will enjoy the more civil tone and participate.

 

[MeBelle]

Well, I liked starting threads here that wouldn't get attacked or trolled. I won't be starting anymore

? Have one of us suggested that the CDZ doesn't protect your threads from being attacked or trolled? That sure wasn't my intent.

Not you Foxfyre.

I just made a declaratory statement.

Both threads I started are now moved to wherever and can be attacked by anyone, which is why I rarely bother posting in the political forums.

It's too bad the offending posts weren't removed from the thread.

There is Good News! Now I can NEG some posts...

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Well, I liked starting threads here that wouldn't get attacked or trolled. I won't be starting anymore

? Have one of us suggested that the CDZ doesn't protect your threads from being attacked or trolled? That sure wasn't my intent. That is exactly why I'm spending most of my time in the CDZ the last couple of days. It has been great and I hope more will enjoy the more civil tone and participate.

Moderator edit
No insults allowed.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I and several other people have good threads out there that were so messed up by the trolls and detractors that those who created them abandoned them and they went by the wayside way ahead of their prime. I would very much like to re-create two or three those from scratch so they could actually be discussed. I wouldn't want them brought with edits to the CDZ because they wouldn't make any sense with half the dscussion removed as you say. Some of those I might start over under a new heading though.

Even in my Emancipation Proclamation thread previously mentioned, there are good points being made that are straying off the topic. It requires skill of the thread starter and a few others participating to bring the train back onto the tracks and not allow the discussion to become a mishmash of unrelated topics. But in the message board format, it also requires skills from the readers to see how widely separated but related concepts fit together.

The thread will either work because the participants grasp the concept or it won't. That is something that is really beyond any of our control.

Please, I have been trying to keep some threads serious for ages. I have been mildly successful. You do not need to make it appear like you are the only one who cares.

The Clean Zone screwed up what started out as a very good thread. Trolls (maybe your pals?) started to take it off topic,.

Dante simply asked people, politely, with no flaming, to stay on topic or leave.

how the hell is that a problem?

 

[Amelia]

I and several other people have good threads out there that were so messed up by the trolls and detractors that those who created them abandoned them and they went by the wayside way ahead of their prime. I would very much like to re-create two or three those from scratch so they could actually be discussed. I wouldn't want them brought with edits to the CDZ because they wouldn't make any sense with half the dscussion removed as you say. Some of those I might start over under a new heading though.

Even in my Emancipation Proclamation thread previously mentioned, there are good points being made that are straying off the topic. It requires skill of the thread starter and a few others participating to bring the train back onto the tracks and not allow the discussion to become a mishmash of unrelated topics. But in the message board format, it also requires skills from the readers to see how widely separated but related concepts fit together.

The thread will either work because the participants grasp the concept or it won't. That is something that is really beyond any of our control.

Please, I have been trying to keep some threads serious for ages. I have been mildly successful. You do not need to make it appear like you are the only one who cares.

The Clean Zone screwed up what started out as a very good thread. Trolls (maybe your pals?) started to take it off topic,.

Dante simply asked people, politely, with no flaming, to stay on topic or leave.

how the hell is that a problem?

CG has been using CDZ posts to "snicker" at the CDZ and calling it a "cowards" forum and so on, while people questioning her about that got their posts edited out.

Dante asked people not to troll/hijack his thread and his thread was moved out of the CDZ.

There are kinks to work out.

I hope the people who like the basic idea of the CDZ will stick around and work on it.

I hope the people who dislike the CDZ on principle will be respectful enough of USMB to enjoy the many other subforums available to them and not try to sabotage our efforts here.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

1. DEBATE involves critical thought.

Didn't the Rs and rw's say we don't need no steenkin "critical thinking"?

Doesn't that handicap most of the board posters?

Yes, a formal debate would be absolutely boring.

DIS-uh-GREE!!

Real debate is exciting, thought provoking and great fun.

Just don't look for it here.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

1. DEBATE involves critical thought.

Didn't the Rs and rw's say we don't need no steenkin "critical thinking"?

Doesn't that handicap most of the board posters?

Yes, a formal debate would be absolutely boring.

DIS-uh-GREE!!

Real debate is exciting, thought provoking and great fun.

Just don't look for it here.

erg

I feel bad for posting that.

Maybe, if given the chance, there could be real debate and discussion here. I'm willing to give it a chance but must say, its hard to stay out of the mud slinging. When hit in the face with a mud pic, its hard not to throw it back.

 

[Foxfyre]

I and several other people have good threads out there that were so messed up by the trolls and detractors that those who created them abandoned them and they went by the wayside way ahead of their prime. I would very much like to re-create two or three those from scratch so they could actually be discussed. I wouldn't want them brought with edits to the CDZ because they wouldn't make any sense with half the dscussion removed as you say. Some of those I might start over under a new heading though.

Even in my Emancipation Proclamation thread previously mentioned, there are good points being made that are straying off the topic. It requires skill of the thread starter and a few others participating to bring the train back onto the tracks and not allow the discussion to become a mishmash of unrelated topics. But in the message board format, it also requires skills from the readers to see how widely separated but related concepts fit together.

The thread will either work because the participants grasp the concept or it won't. That is something that is really beyond any of our control.

Please, I have been trying to keep some threads serious for ages. I have been mildly successful. You do not need to make it appear like you are the only one who cares.

The Clean Zone screwed up what started out as a very good thread. Trolls (maybe your pals?) started to take it off topic,.

Dante simply asked people, politely, with no flaming, to stay on topic or leave.

how the hell is that a problem?

I was under the impression that you were complaining that the edits necessary to move a thread into the CDZ were a problem for your thread. I was simply agreeing with you that this would generally be the case with most threads moved from 'out there' into the CDZ.

 

[Foxfyre]

1. DEBATE involves critical thought.

Didn't the Rs and rw's say we don't need no steenkin "critical thinking"?

Doesn't that handicap most of the board posters?

Yes, a formal debate would be absolutely boring.

DIS-uh-GREE!!

Real debate is exciting, thought provoking and great fun.

Just don't look for it here.

erg

I feel bad for posting that.

Maybe, if given the chance, there could be real debate and discussion here. I'm willing to give it a chance but must say, its hard to stay out of the mud slinging. When hit in the face with a mud pic, its hard not to throw it back.

It's going to be a learning curve for most of us I think. Old habits are hard to break and I've had to delete and rewrite more than a few sentences before hitting the save button myself. But it does get easier as we go along. Just a matter of thinking a bit before we speak, so to speak, instead of doing what comes naturally.

And honestly, there are a few threads that simply work better with some give as good as you get allowed and we have a very nice big roomy message board that accommodates it all.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Didn't the Rs and rw's say we don't need no steenkin "critical thinking"?

Doesn't that handicap most of the board posters?



DIS-uh-GREE!!

Real debate is exciting, thought provoking and great fun.

Just don't look for it here.

erg

I feel bad for posting that.

Maybe, if given the chance, there could be real debate and discussion here. I'm willing to give it a chance but must say, its hard to stay out of the mud slinging. When hit in the face with a mud pic, its hard not to throw it back.

It's going to be a learning curve for most of us I think. Old habits are hard to break and I've had to delete and rewrite more than a few sentences before hitting the save button myself. But it does get easier as we go along. Just a matter of thinking a bit before we speak, so to speak, instead of doing what comes naturally.

And honestly, there are a few threads that simply work better with some give as good as you get allowed and we have a very nice big roomy message board that accommodates it all.

Yes, its true that, on THIS board, I've fallen into the habit of answering in kind, being just as snotty and rude as the post that attacked me. Not a good thing and I take responsibility for that.

If I (we?) stay in the CDZ, maybe we can get back our intelligent, adult selves. Maybe we could actually have a real conversation ... ?

I would like that.

 

[Foxfyre]

erg

I feel bad for posting that.

Maybe, if given the chance, there could be real debate and discussion here. I'm willing to give it a chance but must say, its hard to stay out of the mud slinging. When hit in the face with a mud pic, its hard not to throw it back.

It's going to be a learning curve for most of us I think. Old habits are hard to break and I've had to delete and rewrite more than a few sentences before hitting the save button myself. But it does get easier as we go along. Just a matter of thinking a bit before we speak, so to speak, instead of doing what comes naturally.

And honestly, there are a few threads that simply work better with some give as good as you get allowed and we have a very nice big roomy message board that accommodates it all.

Yes, its true that, on THIS board, I've fallen into the habit of answering in kind, being just as snotty and rude as the post that attacked me. Not a good thing and I take responsibility for that.

If I (we?) stay in the CDZ, maybe we can get back our intelligent, adult selves. Maybe we could actually have a real conversation ... ?

I would like that.

Me too Luddly. Me too.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

It's going to be a learning curve for most of us I think. Old habits are hard to break and I've had to delete and rewrite more than a few sentences before hitting the save button myself. But it does get easier as we go along. Just a matter of thinking a bit before we speak, so to speak, instead of doing what comes naturally.

And honestly, there are a few threads that simply work better with some give as good as you get allowed and we have a very nice big roomy message board that accommodates it all.

Yes, its true that, on THIS board, I've fallen into the habit of answering in kind, being just as snotty and rude as the post that attacked me. Not a good thing and I take responsibility for that.

If I (we?) stay in the CDZ, maybe we can get back our intelligent, adult selves. Maybe we could actually have a real conversation ... ?

I would like that.

Me too Luddly. Me too.

The only way to effect change is to refuse to join anyone who wants to troll this or other forums. They are free to behave like spoiled pre-schoolers but everyone has the choice to NOT join them.

 

[Vidi]

I actually came to this forum because the last forum I was on didnt allow attacks on the poster only the post. And dammit, sometimes some things just needed to be said.

that being said, I too have fallen into the snide comment quick to insult trap quite often...especially with certain people...so its refreshing to get back to actual discussion again.


and if any of you piss me right the hell off...Ill see YOU in the Flame Zone LOL

 

[Vidi]

1. DEBATE involves critical thought.

Didn't the Rs and rw's say we don't need no steenkin "critical thinking"?

Doesn't that handicap most of the board posters?

Yes, a formal debate would be absolutely boring.

DIS-uh-GREE!!

Real debate is exciting, thought provoking and great fun.

Just don't look for it here.

erg

I feel bad for posting that.

Maybe, if given the chance, there could be real debate and discussion here. I'm willing to give it a chance but must say, its hard to stay out of the mud slinging. When hit in the face with a mud pic, its hard not to throw it back.

Stick to the facts and hit them hard with them.

Refute the post, not the poster.

And always try to keep an open mind.

Do those things and youll be fine.

 

[cereal_killer]

Well, I liked starting threads here that wouldn't get attacked or trolled. I won't be starting anymore

? Have one of us suggested that the CDZ doesn't protect your threads from being attacked or trolled? That sure wasn't my intent.

Not you Foxfyre.

I just made a declaratory statement.

Both threads I started are now moved to wherever and can be attacked by anyone, which is why I rarely bother posting in the political forums.

It's too bad the offending posts weren't removed from the thread.

There is Good News! Now I can NEG some posts...

Threads will no longer be moved. They will live and die in the CDZ. People will not be able to manipulate the system anymore. Stick with this section it WILL work out. Eventually the trouble makers will be weeded out and their permissions revoked. Those of you who want this type of forum stick with it. The ones who can't play nice in here will eventually disappear and the forum will function as it's supposed to.

Hang in there.

 

[Foxfyre]

Thanks CK. We're giving it a whirl. The dedicated efforts elsewhere to ridicule and put down those of us who WANT a forum like this are probably eroding our numbers as some members won't won't to incur their snotty personal comments. But hopefully there are enough grown ups to make it work.

Would the board software allow CDZ thread titles to be a different color so folks coming in off the new posts or active topics lists will realize it is a CDZ thread?

And while it is not really all that much of a problem, it would give some less ammunition to use against this forum if the name was changed to Civil Discussion Zone as the terms 'clean' and 'debate' seem to be a huge issue with some.

 

[Intense]

I would Ask that The Thread Titles in this Protected Forum, be given adequate Thought, before posting them. They should not be Inflammatory. There is always what you have to say, and, how you frame it.

 

[cereal_killer]

There is an announcement on this as well

http://www.usmessageboard.com/clean-debate-zone/238012-announcement-cdz.html