What is an independent? Do they realize

Independent - the ability to form an opinion based on critical thought and reason rather than being told what you think by either party.

That's why I am an independent.

Using that we all are
I guess it depends on whether you want to take part of the political process or not

I will vote for Romney, only because we cannot stand 4 more years of BHO

Not all of us, but I would concur with CG.

There are some of us even on this board who will only vote for the party they associate with: TM, rdean, chris, bripat, Franco, zzz, nick and a few others. They don't have the capacity to see that there is good and bad on both sides of the spectrum. They are unwilling to open their minds to the idea that their "opponents" are not incapable of caring about this nation and attempting to do what is right and good.

By the way, an independent person can actually belong to a party, even the Republican or Democratic Party. What makes them independent is their willingness to explore ideas outside of their political comfort zones and to modify their beliefs when others present good arguments for doing so.

Immie
 
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Independent - the ability to form an opinion based on critical thought and reason rather than being told what you think by either party.

That's why I am an independent.

Using that we all are
I guess it depends on whether you want to take part of the political process or not

I will vote for Romney, only because we cannot stand 4 more years of BHO

Using that, no you fucking aren't. People vote D or R just because they happen to have the right letter after their name... there is not one ounce of 'critical thought' in that process. You don't form opinions, you have them provided to you by your party.

I'll vote for Romney because I've researched him and found him to be the better candidate.

CG no-one has made me who I am
I pay Taxes more than I think I should
I understand the risk for capital gains
Abortion, I have my opinions, no-one gave them to me
I understand what a corporation goes through. Those regulations I have dealt with, those taxes I pay, Those social events I have been part of formed who I am
No-one else did
I vote for every time but this time
I am voting against
Romney was my 4th choice, but I feel so strong that BHO is doing more harm to this country than any president ever, I strongly will support Romney being my 4th choice

CG do not ever try to identify who any of us are, you are who you are and I am who I am for different reasons
Most of those reasons came from experience, not because you were told
 
Independent - the ability to form an opinion based on critical thought and reason rather than being told what you think by either party.

That's why I am an independent.

Using that we all are
I guess it depends on whether you want to take part of the political process or not

I will vote for Romney, only because we cannot stand 4 more years of BHO

Not all of us, but I would concur with CG.

There are some of us even on this board who will only vote for the party they associate with: TM, rdean, chris, bripat, Franco, zzz, nick and a few others. They don't have the capacity to see that there is good and bad on both sides of the spectrum. They are unwilling to open their minds to the idea that their "opponents" are not incapable of caring about this nation and attempting to do what is right and good.

By the way, an independent person can actually belong to a party, even the Republican or Democratic Party. What makes them independent is their willingness to explore ideas outside of their political comfort zones and to modify their beliefs when others present good arguments for doing so.

Immie

It is funny every-one thinks I am a Repub
Because I am a registered Dem. you want to vote in the old south in local elections, you have no choice
I voted for many dems back in the day
The left took over, you either do not vote or for me you vote
I vote and given the choices we have I vote GOP
 
Using that we all are
I guess it depends on whether you want to take part of the political process or not

I will vote for Romney, only because we cannot stand 4 more years of BHO

Using that, no you fucking aren't. People vote D or R just because they happen to have the right letter after their name... there is not one ounce of 'critical thought' in that process. You don't form opinions, you have them provided to you by your party.

I'll vote for Romney because I've researched him and found him to be the better candidate.

CG no-one has made me who I am
I pay Taxes more than I think I should
I understand the risk for capital gains
Abortion, I have my opinions, no-one gave them to me
I understand what a corporation goes through. Those regulations I have dealt with, those taxes I pay, Those social events I have been part of formed who I am
No-one else did
I vote for every time but this time
I am voting against
Romney was my 4th choice, but I feel so strong that BHO is doing more harm to this country than any president ever, I strongly will support Romney being my 4th choice

CG do not ever try to identify who any of us are, you are who you are and I am who I am for different reasons
Most of those reasons came from experience, not because you were told

So, let me understand this... I can't 'identify' who you are.... but you can 'identify' who I am purely because I refuse to march lock step with either party? Because that's what you said in your OP. I remain outside party lines because I dislike the whole concept of party... as Immy pointed out, party tends to drag the non-thinking idiots into a tent where they high five each other - regardless of behavior... and slam the other party for doing exactly what they are doing.

I'll give you a great example of why I am an independent.... abortion. I am absolutely and completely pro-life. The difference between me and many other conservatives is that I cannot find any justification to force my beliefs on others. The reason I am pro-life is because of my faith.... if others see that differently.... much as it sickens me.... I will defend their right to have an abortion. It's a pity that more Americans can't do likewise and recognize that none of us has the right to tell others how to live.
 
Using that we all are
I guess it depends on whether you want to take part of the political process or not

I will vote for Romney, only because we cannot stand 4 more years of BHO

Not all of us, but I would concur with CG.

There are some of us even on this board who will only vote for the party they associate with: TM, rdean, chris, bripat, Franco, zzz, nick and a few others. They don't have the capacity to see that there is good and bad on both sides of the spectrum. They are unwilling to open their minds to the idea that their "opponents" are not incapable of caring about this nation and attempting to do what is right and good.

By the way, an independent person can actually belong to a party, even the Republican or Democratic Party. What makes them independent is their willingness to explore ideas outside of their political comfort zones and to modify their beliefs when others present good arguments for doing so.

Immie

It is funny every-one thinks I am a Repub
Because I am a registered Dem. you want to vote in the old south in local elections, you have no choice
I voted for many dems back in the day
The left took over, you either do not vote or for me you vote
I vote and given the choices we have I vote GOP

Did I say I thought you were a Republican?

I would say that I did think you were, but only because there are too many of us who won't think out side of the box. Not so much nationwide, but I am talking about on this site. If you are actually, and you said you were, voting for Romney, then it is natural to think that you are a Republican. It is good to know that their are Democrats who will admit that President Obama has failed to improve the economy. It would be nice to know that there were Republicans who would admit that he's not a total failure.

There are a lot of things I wish he would do different. I'd like to see improved race relations. I'd like to see an economy that was in fact moving forward and not at best stagnate. I'd like to have a government that I felt I could trust again... transparency? I'd like to feel like the words, "united we stand" were not a thing of the past.

Because I am so bitter right now, I don't know that I could come up with a really good answer to "what do you think the President has done right?" But, I have to say that I know there is something out there and something significant. Maybe I won't know until his administration comes to an end whether it is 2013 or 2017.

I don't consider liberals my enemy... although when it comes to the progressives and the neocons, I would agree that they are the problem with the world as it is today.

I can tell you one thing about our President... I sure as hell don't envy him.

Immie
 
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Not all of us, but I would concur with CG.

There are some of us even on this board who will only vote for the party they associate with: TM, rdean, chris, bripat, Franco, zzz, nick and a few others. They don't have the capacity to see that there is good and bad on both sides of the spectrum. They are unwilling to open their minds to the idea that their "opponents" are not incapable of caring about this nation and attempting to do what is right and good.

By the way, an independent person can actually belong to a party, even the Republican or Democratic Party. What makes them independent is their willingness to explore ideas outside of their political comfort zones and to modify their beliefs when others present good arguments for doing so.

Immie

It is funny every-one thinks I am a Repub
Because I am a registered Dem. you want to vote in the old south in local elections, you have no choice
I voted for many dems back in the day
The left took over, you either do not vote or for me you vote
I vote and given the choices we have I vote GOP

Did I say I thought you were a Republican?

I would say that I did think you were, but only because there are too many of us who won't think out side of the box. Not so much nationwide, but I am talking about on this site. If you are actually, and you said you were, voting for Romney, then it is natural to think that you are a Republican. It is good to know that their are Democrats who will admit that President Obama has failed to improve the economy. It would be nice to know that there were Republicans who would admit that he's not a total failure.

There are a lot of things I wish he would do different. I'd like to see improved race relations. I'd like to see an economy that was in fact moving forward and not at best stagnate. I'd like to have a government that I felt I could trust again... transparency? I'd like to feel like the words, "united we stand" were not a thing of the past.

Because I am so bitter right now, I don't know that I could come up with a really good answer to "what do you think the President has done right?" But, I have to say that I know there is something out there and something significant. Maybe I won't know until his administration comes to an end whether it is 2013 or 2017.

I don't consider liberals my enemy... although when it comes to the progressives and the neocons, I would agree that they are the problem with the world as it is today.

I can tell you one thing about our President... I sure as hell don't envy him.

Immie
Immie this is the way I see it
The GOP has went center, center right
Any-one who thinks GWB was a neo-con paid no attention to the way he governed
He spent more for the poor than most

Many believe the Reagan and Bush tax cuts overwhelmingly benefited the wealthy. However, data from the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) shows that poor and middle income Americans have benefited more than the wealthy.

In 1979, the poorest 20% of earners paid no income tax. By 2007, that same group had a negative income tax rate of 6.8%. In other words, they took home 6.8% more than they paid in to the federal government. Middle income Americans paid an effective income tax rate (the amount paid after deductions) of 7.5% in 1979. That rate was cut to 3.3% in 2007, a drop of more than 50%.
Who Really Benefited From the Bush Tax Cuts?

President Bush created a Medicare drug entitle*ment that will cost an estimated $800 billion in its first decade. President Obama has proposed a $634 billion down payment on a new govern*ment health care fund.
President Bush increased federal education spending 58 percent faster than inflation. Presi*dent Obama would double it.
Bush Deficit vs. Obama Deficit in Pictures
 
It is funny every-one thinks I am a Repub
Because I am a registered Dem. you want to vote in the old south in local elections, you have no choice
I voted for many dems back in the day
The left took over, you either do not vote or for me you vote
I vote and given the choices we have I vote GOP

Did I say I thought you were a Republican?

I would say that I did think you were, but only because there are too many of us who won't think out side of the box. Not so much nationwide, but I am talking about on this site. If you are actually, and you said you were, voting for Romney, then it is natural to think that you are a Republican. It is good to know that their are Democrats who will admit that President Obama has failed to improve the economy. It would be nice to know that there were Republicans who would admit that he's not a total failure.

There are a lot of things I wish he would do different. I'd like to see improved race relations. I'd like to see an economy that was in fact moving forward and not at best stagnate. I'd like to have a government that I felt I could trust again... transparency? I'd like to feel like the words, "united we stand" were not a thing of the past.

Because I am so bitter right now, I don't know that I could come up with a really good answer to "what do you think the President has done right?" But, I have to say that I know there is something out there and something significant. Maybe I won't know until his administration comes to an end whether it is 2013 or 2017.

I don't consider liberals my enemy... although when it comes to the progressives and the neocons, I would agree that they are the problem with the world as it is today.

I can tell you one thing about our President... I sure as hell don't envy him.

Immie
Immie this is the way I see it
The GOP has went center, center right
Any-one who thinks GWB was a neo-con paid no attention to the way he governed
He spent more for the poor than most

Many believe the Reagan and Bush tax cuts overwhelmingly benefited the wealthy. However, data from the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) shows that poor and middle income Americans have benefited more than the wealthy.

In 1979, the poorest 20% of earners paid no income tax. By 2007, that same group had a negative income tax rate of 6.8%. In other words, they took home 6.8% more than they paid in to the federal government. Middle income Americans paid an effective income tax rate (the amount paid after deductions) of 7.5% in 1979. That rate was cut to 3.3% in 2007, a drop of more than 50%.
Who Really Benefited From the Bush Tax Cuts?

President Bush created a Medicare drug entitle*ment that will cost an estimated $800 billion in its first decade. President Obama has proposed a $634 billion down payment on a new govern*ment health care fund.
President Bush increased federal education spending 58 percent faster than inflation. Presi*dent Obama would double it.
Bush Deficit vs. Obama Deficit in Pictures

I don't know that Bush was a "Neo-con", but I am pretty well convinced his handlers were.

I don't see the GOP as being Center-Center/Right at least not socially. Socially they talk center right, but do nothing at all that can be considered such.

The goal of the GOP is the same as the goal of the DNC... empower the rich.

Honestly, I don't see a lot of difference in accomplishments between the two parties. Granted what they promise is different, but their actions are taken from the same pages ie The Patriot Act and NDAA. The Pill Bill and Obamacare.

Immie
 
An independent is someone who chooses not to designate a specific party affiliation.

It has nothing to do with ideology.

It has everything to do ideology
Wealth re distribution
Abortion
civil rights, real and Jesse Jackson's type (to sue)
I mean who and what you are defines you as a person
From A to Z

Those ideals drives this country, or we might as well just give up
 
That they should have some set of Morales and beliefs?

I really cannot understand what any-one sees in BHO, but I can respect that they at least have a belief

How can you go through life with not having any-thing to believe in?
I mean Libs believe in abortion
gay marriage
Taking wealth from one and giving it to another
and when did the father in an event that an un-born child was involved lose his choice?

Any-way how can one year see this as the right direction and the GOP being the right direction the next time?

YIKES !!!

Obviously the definition of "independent" escapes you.

It does not mean that one has no morals or values .. it means that neither party believes in or supports one values .. thus they free themselves from the idiocy of partisanship and can vote for issues instead of a letter behind ones name.

Frankly, they are often more firm in their resolve about ISSUES than the partisans who will swallow whatever they're told to swallow.

But I understand the need to go trolling for disaffected republicans. :0)

You were quicker than I was in getting to this thread.

I consider myself independent, but it is not because I don't have any moral values. I have values that I believe neither party comes close to representing and I have values that I believe are anti-thetical to both parties. For instance, I believe the leaders of both parties are corrupt individuals who have sold themselves for the power they expect to receive in office.

I cannot in good conscience support either party. I am opposed to abortion and Affirmative Action. Because of their stance on issues such as these, I cannot in good conscience align myself with the Democrats. I also support certain social safety nets such as welfare (although I believe it should be modified along with Social Security), because of their stance on social safety nets, I cannot in good conscience support Republicans either.

When I look at the issues I find so many that I disagree with both parties on that I will not choose a party ever again.

Independent does not mean that one does not believe in anything. It means one does not agree with either party enough to follow along as their sheep.

Immie

While I do not claim to be AN Independent, my voting record is mixed to some extent, especially on local level.

No surprise, we are basically in line, I don't look to politicians in a moral sense as that would serve no purpose. Most of them on state level and higher are in it for themselves one way or the other. I'm looking for the person that will most likely help create policies that will benefit those areas I care about or get government out of those areas I think it doesn't belong. That's it.

I didn't and don't care where Bill puts his cigars, whether Barack smoke them or not. I don't care if Hillary goes wild at some club, as long as she pays for what she's supposed to.

I do care when they lie to the people, me included with people. ;)
 
YIKES !!!

Obviously the definition of "independent" escapes you.

It does not mean that one has no morals or values .. it means that neither party believes in or supports one values .. thus they free themselves from the idiocy of partisanship and can vote for issues instead of a letter behind ones name.

Frankly, they are often more firm in their resolve about ISSUES than the partisans who will swallow whatever they're told to swallow.

But I understand the need to go trolling for disaffected republicans. :0)

You were quicker than I was in getting to this thread.

I consider myself independent, but it is not because I don't have any moral values. I have values that I believe neither party comes close to representing and I have values that I believe are anti-thetical to both parties. For instance, I believe the leaders of both parties are corrupt individuals who have sold themselves for the power they expect to receive in office.

I cannot in good conscience support either party. I am opposed to abortion and Affirmative Action. Because of their stance on issues such as these, I cannot in good conscience align myself with the Democrats. I also support certain social safety nets such as welfare (although I believe it should be modified along with Social Security), because of their stance on social safety nets, I cannot in good conscience support Republicans either.

When I look at the issues I find so many that I disagree with both parties on that I will not choose a party ever again.

Independent does not mean that one does not believe in anything. It means one does not agree with either party enough to follow along as their sheep.

Immie

While I do not claim to be AN Independent, my voting record is mixed to some extent, especially on local level.

No surprise, we are basically in line, I don't look to politicians in a moral sense as that would serve no purpose. Most of them on state level and higher are in it for themselves one way or the other. I'm looking for the person that will most likely help create policies that will benefit those areas I care about or get government out of those areas I think it doesn't belong. That's it.

I didn't and don't care where Bill puts his cigars, whether Barack smoke them or not. I don't care if Hillary goes wild at some club, as long as she pays for what she's supposed to.

I do care when they lie to the people, me included with people. ;)

Immie for the most part I agree
BC lied about the cigar
BHO has told so many I do not know were to start

GM?
Job creation would be a good place to start
 
An independent is someone who chooses not to designate a specific party affiliation.

It has nothing to do with ideology.

It has everything to do ideology
Wealth re distribution
Abortion
civil rights, real and Jesse Jackson's type (to sue)
I mean who and what you are defines you as a person
From A to Z

Those ideals drives this country, or we might as well just give up

I'm registered as an Independent.
 
An independent is someone who chooses not to designate a specific party affiliation.

It has nothing to do with ideology.

It has everything to do ideology
Wealth re distribution
Abortion
civil rights, real and Jesse Jackson's type (to sue)
I mean who and what you are defines you as a person
From A to Z

Those ideals drives this country, or we might as well just give up

I'm registered as an Independent.

Bully for you then.
 
It has everything to do ideology
Wealth re distribution
Abortion
civil rights, real and Jesse Jackson's type (to sue)
I mean who and what you are defines you as a person
From A to Z

Those ideals drives this country, or we might as well just give up

I'm registered as an Independent.

Bully for you then.

Being registered as an independent is fine with me
It makes no sense to go through the political evolution to not vote for one or the other
Just because I do not understand it does not make it work for you or any-one else

I started this thread trying to understand why one would vote for GWB in 04 and BHO in 08
Ideals for each party remain the same for the most part
My biggest issue with the left is the level if dis honesty
GM is a huge failure, they still owe us billions
there IPO is the only money we got back and we financed it along with tarp monies they were given in excess to make sure there first "payment" came in on time
GM has bit used 1 penny of there wealth
call it what it is

This class warfare
capital gains has nothing to do with Income
yet the left and the media compare them as they do

Civil right issues are only for young single white males, there the only ones who have no federally protected rights
Yet the left would make you think different

These are all events that as an Independent cannot be ignored

John B and the boys in the house have done a okay job, the reason we do not have bi partisan is the GOP had to stop this out of control spending
That is why we had such a landslide victory for the GOP in 2010, people wanted that change
 
That they should have some set of Morales and beliefs?

I really cannot understand what any-one sees in BHO, but I can respect that they at least have a belief

How can you go through life with not having any-thing to believe in?
I mean Libs believe in abortion
gay marriage
Taking wealth from one and giving it to another
and when did the father in an event that an un-born child was involved lose his choice?

Any-way how can one year see this as the right direction and the GOP being the right direction the next time?

You just can't understand how it is that anyone (everyone) doesn't share your opinions, huh?

Let me ask you a question. Have you ever been wrong? More specifically, have you ever discovered you were wrong about something (anything) when you believed you were right? Most people have had that experience at one point or another. Hopefully, they learn something from the experience.
 
I'm registered as an Independent.

Bully for you then.

Being registered as an independent is fine with me
It makes no sense to go through the political evolution to not vote for one or the other
Just because I do not understand it does not make it work for you or any-one else

I started this thread trying to understand why one would vote for GWB in 04 and BHO in 08
Ideals for each party remain the same for the most part
My biggest issue with the left is the level if dis honesty
GM is a huge failure, they still owe us billions
there IPO is the only money we got back and we financed it along with tarp monies they were given in excess to make sure there first "payment" came in on time
GM has bit used 1 penny of there wealth
call it what it is

This class warfare
capital gains has nothing to do with Income
yet the left and the media compare them as they do

Civil right issues are only for young single white males, there the only ones who have no federally protected rights
Yet the left would make you think different

These are all events that as an Independent cannot be ignored

John B and the boys in the house have done a okay job, the reason we do not have bi partisan is the GOP had to stop this out of control spending
That is why we had such a landslide victory for the GOP in 2010, people wanted that change

WHy do you keep posting shit thats ben debunker over and over? Its as if you cannot read and are just copy and pasting from another cite
 
That they should have some set of Morales and beliefs?

I really cannot understand what any-one sees in BHO, but I can respect that they at least have a belief

How can you go through life with not having any-thing to believe in?
I mean Libs believe in abortion
gay marriage
Taking wealth from one and giving it to another
and when did the father in an event that an un-born child was involved lose his choice?

Any-way how can one year see this as the right direction and the GOP being the right direction the next time?

You just can't understand how it is that anyone (everyone) doesn't share your opinions, huh?

Let me ask you a question. Have you ever been wrong? More specifically, have you ever discovered you were wrong about something (anything) when you believed you were right? Most people have had that experience at one point or another. Hopefully, they learn something from the experience.

My god have I been wrong in life
And as far as people dis agreeing with me? That is not what I said
Being a lib and being proud of it is fine with me, I am having issue with those who cannot find a path in life to decide who they want to represent them
Libs love BHO, no matter how bad he has failed, at least they believe in his policies no matter how bad they have failed

Do you want Obama?
Or do you want a Romney?
and no that is not all of the choices we have
What I said was ones morale compass should be enough to choose

let me ask you, how do you decide?

And as far as the GOP being right? my god compared to the class warfare, race bating and down right lies our current president is all about
anything at this time can be better

My god we spent 2.7 trillion dollars as a country in 2007 (the last GOP budget)
in 2010 we spent 3.7
for what?

He has claimed he inherited that

We are losing 500,000 people to the Not in labor force column last month along with 300-400,000 to the civil an labor force, and that is how we lower the UE rate

it is the very reason we have went from 9 to 8.1, not job growth (as a whole any-way)
Table A-1. Employment status of the civilian population by sex and age

I mean what is it you people think we need?
to claim that income and capital gains be taxed the same? or even protray it to the millions that do not understand the difference see it as the same?
Is it okay to tax corporations more, even though corporations do not pay taxes, people do
where do you draw the line?
 

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