What is an independent? Do they realize

[JRK]

Most of the country is either slightly left of center or slightly right of center. Neither party fully represents what independents want......

So the vote for least objectionable

I must assume for your previous post you would be a Lib
What one belief swings you that way?

My biggest issue with the Democratic party is the lack of honesty
I am being serious
BHO claiming he has created any jobs is a lie
His portrayal of GM being a success is a huge lie
I also think that the race issue has long been dead as well as gender. Move on
I have serious heartburn with class warfare
Abortion(s) are to easy and not allowing the man in having a say in that event is wrong, as to me the event its self is not right
A legal union between 2 men, as much as I have heart burn with it, is okay with me. They need that legal event for obvious reasons
Tax policy of course

There is not one thing in those statements that I do not agree with completely and have stated most in the past except that I do not believe the race/gender is dead, but only becuase the parties won't allow them to die.

You have made the statement that because I consider myself to be "independent", I have no moral values.

Do you believe these are not moral values? Because if I hold those same values, then I must have at least some moral values.

Immie

Let me re phrase
To me one has to have the moral compass to define that event that will guide politically where he or she will support
From day one
The one event for me I guess is Abortion
Back when I supported some Dems it was because they were physical conservatives on tax policy and some spending

 

[rightwinger]

Most of the country is either slightly left of center or slightly right of center. Neither party fully represents what independents want......

So the vote for least objectionable

I must assume for your previous post you would be a Lib
What one belief swings you that way?

My biggest issue with the Democratic party is the lack of honesty
I am being serious
BHO claiming he has created any jobs is a lie
His portrayal of GM being a success is a huge lie
I also think that the race issue has long been dead as well as gender. Move on
I have serious heartburn with class warfare
Abortion(s) are to easy and not allowing the man in having a say in that event is wrong, as to me the event its self is not right
A legal union between 2 men, as much as I have heart burn with it, is okay with me. They need that legal event for obvious reasons
Tax policy of course

Actually, I am a moderate

I have never voted a straight ticket and have voted for more Republicans for President than Dems

 

[JRK]

Most of the country is either slightly left of center or slightly right of center. Neither party fully represents what independents want......

So the vote for least objectionable

I must assume for your previous post you would be a Lib
What one belief swings you that way?

My biggest issue with the Democratic party is the lack of honesty
I am being serious
BHO claiming he has created any jobs is a lie
His portrayal of GM being a success is a huge lie
I also think that the race issue has long been dead as well as gender. Move on
I have serious heartburn with class warfare
Abortion(s) are to easy and not allowing the man in having a say in that event is wrong, as to me the event its self is not right
A legal union between 2 men, as much as I have heart burn with it, is okay with me. They need that legal event for obvious reasons
Tax policy of course

Actually, I am a moderate

I have never voted a straight ticket and have voted for more Republicans for President than Dems

Wow
I am impressed

 

[Immanuel]

I must assume for your previous post you would be a Lib
What one belief swings you that way?

My biggest issue with the Democratic party is the lack of honesty
I am being serious
BHO claiming he has created any jobs is a lie
His portrayal of GM being a success is a huge lie
I also think that the race issue has long been dead as well as gender. Move on
I have serious heartburn with class warfare
Abortion(s) are to easy and not allowing the man in having a say in that event is wrong, as to me the event its self is not right
A legal union between 2 men, as much as I have heart burn with it, is okay with me. They need that legal event for obvious reasons
Tax policy of course

There is not one thing in those statements that I do not agree with completely and have stated most in the past except that I do not believe the race/gender is dead, but only becuase the parties won't allow them to die.

You have made the statement that because I consider myself to be "independent", I have no moral values.

Do you believe these are not moral values? Because if I hold those same values, then I must have at least some moral values.

Immie

Let me re phrase
To me one has to have the moral compass to define that event that will guide politically where he or she will support
From day one
The one event for me I guess is Abortion
Back when I supported some Dems it was because they were physical conservatives on tax policy and some spending

I would say that when I became "politically active", the issue for me was also abortion. That was when I dumped the Democrats, because they were IMHO pro-abortion*. I became a diehard pro-life supporter of the GOP. Later, I began to believe that in regards to abortion, the GOP was yanking my chain and I was letting them get away with it.

That was when I left the Republican Party.

We all have differing views on political/moral issues. For me, I cannot reconcile my belief system with either party. There are so many issues that I find myself in agreement with the GOP on, and yet then there are plenty of GOP stances that lead me to... /facepalm.

Immie

* My opinion on that has changed. I think it is a rare individual who is truly pro-abortion. Those who are "pro-choice" hold a libertarian view of the practice in their beliefs that the government should butt out.

 

[JRK]

There is not one thing in those statements that I do not agree with completely and have stated most in the past except that I do not believe the race/gender is dead, but only becuase the parties won't allow them to die.

You have made the statement that because I consider myself to be "independent", I have no moral values.

Do you believe these are not moral values? Because if I hold those same values, then I must have at least some moral values.

Immie

Let me re phrase
To me one has to have the moral compass to define that event that will guide politically where he or she will support
From day one
The one event for me I guess is Abortion
Back when I supported some Dems it was because they were physical conservatives on tax policy and some spending

I would say that when I became "politically active", the issue for me was also abortion. That was when I dumped the Democrats, because they were IMHO pro-abortion*. I became a diehard pro-life supporter of the GOP. Later, I began to believe that in regards to abortion, the GOP was yanking my chain and I was letting them get away with it.

That was when I left the Republican Party.

We all have differing views on political/moral issues. For me, I cannot reconcile my belief system with either party. There are so many issues that I find myself in agreement with the GOP on, and yet then there are plenty of GOP stances that lead me to... /facepalm.

Immie

* My opinion on that has changed. I think it is a rare individual who is truly pro-abortion. Those who are "pro-choice" hold a libertarian view of the practice in their beliefs that the government should butt out.

fair enough
I have serious issue with the GOP also.
To me we need to throw all of them out an start over except for a few

Smaller govt
try and be honest and yes keep your know out of my business
Follow the constitution, keep race and gender in there real place and shut up about things that are not happening
well protected, more rights than I will ever have (I am not pissed about it, I am tired of the lying about it)

 

[Immanuel]

Let me re phrase
To me one has to have the moral compass to define that event that will guide politically where he or she will support
From day one
The one event for me I guess is Abortion
Back when I supported some Dems it was because they were physical conservatives on tax policy and some spending

I would say that when I became "politically active", the issue for me was also abortion. That was when I dumped the Democrats, because they were IMHO pro-abortion*. I became a diehard pro-life supporter of the GOP. Later, I began to believe that in regards to abortion, the GOP was yanking my chain and I was letting them get away with it.

That was when I left the Republican Party.

We all have differing views on political/moral issues. For me, I cannot reconcile my belief system with either party. There are so many issues that I find myself in agreement with the GOP on, and yet then there are plenty of GOP stances that lead me to... /facepalm.

Immie

* My opinion on that has changed. I think it is a rare individual who is truly pro-abortion. Those who are "pro-choice" hold a libertarian view of the practice in their beliefs that the government should butt out.

fair enough
I have serious issue with the GOP also.
To me we need to throw all of them out an start over except for a few

Smaller govt
try and be honest and yes keep your know out of my business
Follow the constitution, keep race and gender in there real place and shut up about things that are not happening
well protected, more rights than I will ever have (I am not pissed about it, I am tired of the lying about it)

See? This here independent has many of the same values as you do.

Maybe the issue isn't our values but what we see as the values of the parties?

To me, I see the parties as having no moral values whatsoever beyond, "just win baby".

Immie

 

[JRK]

I would say that when I became "politically active", the issue for me was also abortion. That was when I dumped the Democrats, because they were IMHO pro-abortion*. I became a diehard pro-life supporter of the GOP. Later, I began to believe that in regards to abortion, the GOP was yanking my chain and I was letting them get away with it.

That was when I left the Republican Party.

We all have differing views on political/moral issues. For me, I cannot reconcile my belief system with either party. There are so many issues that I find myself in agreement with the GOP on, and yet then there are plenty of GOP stances that lead me to... /facepalm.

Immie

* My opinion on that has changed. I think it is a rare individual who is truly pro-abortion. Those who are "pro-choice" hold a libertarian view of the practice in their beliefs that the government should butt out.

fair enough
I have serious issue with the GOP also.
To me we need to throw all of them out an start over except for a few

Smaller govt
try and be honest and yes keep your know out of my business
Follow the constitution, keep race and gender in there real place and shut up about things that are not happening
well protected, more rights than I will ever have (I am not pissed about it, I am tired of the lying about it)

See? This here independent has many of the same values as you do.

Maybe the issue isn't our values but what we see as the values of the parties?

To me, I see the parties as having no moral values whatsoever beyond, "just win baby".

Immie

have you made your mind up who your voting for?
Romney was my 4th choice
Cain
Perry
Newt

 

[BlackAsCoal]

That they should have some set of Morales and beliefs?

I really cannot understand what any-one sees in BHO, but I can respect that they at least have a belief

How can you go through life with not having any-thing to believe in?
I mean Libs believe in abortion
gay marriage
Taking wealth from one and giving it to another
and when did the father in an event that an un-born child was involved lose his choice?

Any-way how can one year see this as the right direction and the GOP being the right direction the next time?

YIKES !!!

Obviously the definition of "independent" escapes you.

It does not mean that one has no morals or values .. it means that neither party believes in or supports one values .. thus they free themselves from the idiocy of partisanship and can vote for issues instead of a letter behind ones name.

Frankly, they are often more firm in their resolve about ISSUES than the partisans who will swallow whatever they're told to swallow.

But I understand the need to go trolling for disaffected republicans. :0)

I believe that one should have set of values that guides them. That is not being partisan, that is who and what we are as people
Wealth being taxed is a value
Abortion is a value, or ones stance in the issue is a value
Having a president who respects local jurisdiction in a matter that has not had its day in court yet is a value
I have no desire to troll for any-one. A conservative remains one for reasons that have nothing to do with politics. The issue i have with liberals is you can no longer find one who will debate the issues, they lose 100% of the time in that arena and they know it, or should I say they refuse to admit there beliefs to be debated

Then you have what is called an "independent"
And you are telling me that this person has resolve to, well resolve what?
I mean what drives a person who has no core values?
Political values comes from who and what that person

A liberal values abortion, or a choice that the man gets left out in that choice
He/she values taking wealth from one and giving it another in numbers that will only do harm to both in time
A conservative values the free market, he/she values the constitution
How do you value only parts of it? is this what the independent does?

That is the same as a lib

It is not about mandating identification tags, its about who and what that person is

As a lib you respond as though this is about trolling, a fully expected response. As a lib you have values that make you that person
That is just the way it is

I'm a socialist, not a liberal .. and I'm more than willing to debate you on a variety of issues .. and if you think "I'll lose every time" .. then you've got another think coming.

Your false belief in your own superiority demonstrates a closeted mind.

Let me guess .. your issue is abortion, but you are only pro-UNBORN-life.

Typical

 

[JRK]

YIKES !!!

Obviously the definition of "independent" escapes you.

It does not mean that one has no morals or values .. it means that neither party believes in or supports one values .. thus they free themselves from the idiocy of partisanship and can vote for issues instead of a letter behind ones name.

Frankly, they are often more firm in their resolve about ISSUES than the partisans who will swallow whatever they're told to swallow.

But I understand the need to go trolling for disaffected republicans. :0)

I believe that one should have set of values that guides them. That is not being partisan, that is who and what we are as people
Wealth being taxed is a value
Abortion is a value, or ones stance in the issue is a value
Having a president who respects local jurisdiction in a matter that has not had its day in court yet is a value
I have no desire to troll for any-one. A conservative remains one for reasons that have nothing to do with politics. The issue i have with liberals is you can no longer find one who will debate the issues, they lose 100% of the time in that arena and they know it, or should I say they refuse to admit there beliefs to be debated

Then you have what is called an "independent"
And you are telling me that this person has resolve to, well resolve what?
I mean what drives a person who has no core values?
Political values comes from who and what that person

A liberal values abortion, or a choice that the man gets left out in that choice
He/she values taking wealth from one and giving it another in numbers that will only do harm to both in time
A conservative values the free market, he/she values the constitution
How do you value only parts of it? is this what the independent does?

That is the same as a lib

It is not about mandating identification tags, its about who and what that person is

As a lib you respond as though this is about trolling, a fully expected response. As a lib you have values that make you that person
That is just the way it is

I'm a socialist, not a liberal .. and I'm more than willing to debate you on a variety of issues .. and if you think "I'll lose every time" .. then you've got another think coming.

Your false belief in your own superiority demonstrates a closeted mind.

SO you think taking wealth from one and giving to another will work?
What will we do when the one your taking the money away from leaves like Eduardo Saverin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

he is renouncing his citizenship before Facebook goes public to dodge taxes

Eduardo Saverin, Facebook Co-Founder, Drops U.S. Citizenship, May Sidestep Taxes On IPO Profits

 

[Immanuel]

fair enough
I have serious issue with the GOP also.
To me we need to throw all of them out an start over except for a few

Smaller govt
try and be honest and yes keep your know out of my business
Follow the constitution, keep race and gender in there real place and shut up about things that are not happening
well protected, more rights than I will ever have (I am not pissed about it, I am tired of the lying about it)

See? This here independent has many of the same values as you do.

Maybe the issue isn't our values but what we see as the values of the parties?

To me, I see the parties as having no moral values whatsoever beyond, "just win baby".

Immie

have you made your mind up who your voting for?
Romney was my 4th choice
Cain
Perry
Newt

No, I have not. I have made up my mind that I will not vote for either Obama or Romney.

Reason #1: both of them are party elites. They have sold their souls to their party and the money behind those parties. The men themselves have no autonomy and will do as their masters tell them.

Even though I understand that a third party vote is a throw away vote, I will vote third party because I don't trust either party.

I do not believe the GOP has the needs of this nation at heart. I do not believe the DNC has the needs of this nation or the poor that they claim to represent at heart. Both have been bought and paid for by the very rich of this country. Both have essentially the same goals... empower the rich.

Individual Reasons:

Romney is one arrogant son of a bitch. I despise arrogance. I suspect that is probably because I myself have a touch of arrogance and I hate that about myself. Romney is in my opinion a bully and not just because of the little scandal that broke out earlier this week, but I have long seen him as a person that thinks he's better than the rest of us.

Obama? Actually, I could see myself enjoying a beer with him and having some heart to heart discussions with him. I am simply afraid of the idea of being a slave to the government and his desire to take control of the country via Obamacare, the auto industry and the financial industry scare the shit out of me.

Obama is not, in fact, fully responisible for the economic conditions we face, although some of his policies and the policies of his administration and party are responsible for keeping us down. There is, in fact, little that anyone could have done to make things rosy in the last three years, but I do believe that President Obama's (and the left wing's) anti-corporate policies are preventing and delaying a genuine recovery.

I don't know who I will vote for. Maybe Bugs Bunny, at least I could trust him to make me laugh every now and then.

Signed... the very sad and cynical,

Immie

 

[JRK]

See? This here independent has many of the same values as you do.

Maybe the issue isn't our values but what we see as the values of the parties?

To me, I see the parties as having no moral values whatsoever beyond, "just win baby".

Immie

have you made your mind up who your voting for?
Romney was my 4th choice
Cain
Perry
Newt

No, I have not. I have made up my mind that I will not vote for either Obama or Romney.

Reason #1: both of them are party elites. They have sold their souls to their party and the money behind those parties. The men themselves have no autonomy and will do as their masters tell them.

Even though I understand that a third party vote is a throw away vote, I will vote third party because I don't trust either party.

I do not believe the GOP has the needs of this nation at heart. I do not believe the DNC has the needs of this nation or the poor that they claim to represent at heart. Both have been bought and paid for by the very rich of this country. Both have essentially the same goals... empower the rich.

Individual Reasons:

Romney is one arrogant son of a bitch. I despise arrogance. I suspect that is probably because I myself have a touch of arrogance and I hate that about myself. Romney is in my opinion a bully and not just because of the little scandal that broke out earlier this week, but I have long seen him as a person that thinks he's better than the rest of us.

Obama? Actually, I could see myself enjoying a beer with him and having some heart to heart discussions with him. I am simply afraid of the idea of being a slave to the government and his desire to take control of the country via Obamacare, the auto industry and the financial industry scare the shit out of me.

Obama is not, in fact, fully responisible for the economic conditions we face, although some of his policies and the policies of his administration and party are responsible for keeping us down. There is, in fact, little that anyone could have done to make things rosy in the last three years, but I do believe that President Obama's (and the left wing's) anti-corporate policies are preventing and delaying a genuine recovery.

I don't know who I will vote for. Maybe Bugs Bunny, at least I could trust him to make me laugh every now and then.

Signed... the very sad and cynical,

Immie

I agree that BHO did little to create, I do not think ant politician had much to do with this mess
You cannot legislate morality
I am a pure conservative, and at best I am a libertarian
Smaller govt with a safety net for short term help
SS
medicare
defense of country
Low tax rate
regulations that make sense

 

[California Girl]

Independents are actually just Republicans who hate themselves. They know that the GObP/pubs/bags hate the US and vote only to take it down. They know that pub politicians only want to send jobs and and money out of the US and they know that the GOP is dead, laying in a ditch, smelling up the countryside and that the new GObP is anti-America, anti-American, anti-Constitution and, as much as they can see that this half-breed prez has pulled us back from the brink, well, dammit, he's still a half-breed they so hung up with their own fear and suspicion they just can't quite bring themselves to support him on the basis of the rather astounding work he has done.

Poor schlubs. They know they're voting for the end of their own country but they just don't know what else to do. So, they turn on fux and get more lying shit shoved down their throat.

Sorry, but its true.

True?

Your opinion is not 'true'. It is your opinion... and your opinions are usually based on stupidity.

 

[California Girl]

Independent - the ability to form an opinion based on critical thought and reason rather than being told what you think by either party.

That's why I am an independent.

 

[starcraftzzz]

Most of the country is either slightly left of center or slightly right of center. Neither party fully represents what independents want......

So the vote for least objectionable

I must assume for your previous post you would be a Lib
What one belief swings you that way?

My biggest issue with the Democratic party is the lack of honesty
I am being serious
BHO claiming he has created any jobs is a lie

Yes because 4million jobs is equal to zero

His portrayal of GM being a success is a huge lie

yes because going from bankrupcy and record losses to record profits and saving 1.5million jobs is not success

I also think that the race issue has long been dead as well as gender. Move on

Yep because women and blacks getting payd like 40% less the men and whites means race/gender issues are dead

I have serious heartburn with class warfare

Yet you constitnly vote for Republicans who raise taxes on the poor in order to give billionaires who already pay less taxes then the poor more tax cuts

Abortion(s) are to easy and not allowing the man in having a say in that event is wrong,

Yes it is wrong for men to not control womens bodies...

 

[JRK]

zzz no-one will talk to you, You have NO CLASS
GO AWAY AND LEAVE THE ADULTS ALONE

 

[JRK]

Independent - the ability to form an opinion based on critical thought and reason rather than being told what you think by either party.

That's why I am an independent.

Using that we all are
I guess it depends on whether you want to take part of the political process or not

I will vote for Romney, only because we cannot stand 4 more years of BHO

 

[California Girl]

Independent - the ability to form an opinion based on critical thought and reason rather than being told what you think by either party.

That's why I am an independent.

Using that we all are
I guess it depends on whether you want to take part of the political process or not

I will vote for Romney, only because we cannot stand 4 more years of BHO

Using that, no you fucking aren't. People vote D or R just because they happen to have the right letter after their name... there is not one ounce of 'critical thought' in that process. You don't form opinions, you have them provided to you by your party.

I'll vote for Romney because I've researched him and found him to be the better candidate.

 

[starcraftzzz]

Independent - the ability to form an opinion based on critical thought and reason rather than being told what you think by either party.

That's why I am an independent.

Using that we all are
I guess it depends on whether you want to take part of the political process or not

I will vote for Romney, only because we cannot stand 4 more years of BHO

No you will vote for Romney because you are a dumbass

 

[Mac1958]

That they should have some set of Morales and beliefs?

To begin with, it's "morals", not "Morales".

And since you ask, I have a few questions for you:

What is the morality of someone who has to employ the standard techniques of spin, diversion, hyperbole, distortion and outright lies so often used by partisans from both ends of the political spectrum?

What value is there in a belief system of someone who dutifully follows along with whatever a radio talk show host or TV host or web site or politician tells them to do?

Precisely where is the morality of hoping someone from "the other side" fails simply because either (a) you don't want to lose, or (b) you may be proven wrong by that person or opinion?

Independents think for ourselves. We examine each issue on its own merits without political prejudice. We don't have to resort to spin and hyperbole to push the agenda of some asinine "side". Further, it's quite possible that one Independent can disagree with another Independent on any given issue. Since we're not partisan sheep, that's quite possible.

Honesty and reasoned, rational, mature, individual thought? Yup, I'd say that's a moral belief system.

.

 

[skookerasbil]

No worries JRK bro.........most of the independents are going to break for Romney and any undecideds ALL willl break for Romney. Its all good.........no worries here.

For the last 60 years, any sitting incumbent under 50% has gotten his clock cleaned in the general. Ive been celebrating the imminent GOP win for more than a year now.........my concern now is just with the Senate.