CDZ What is a friend

[Ravi]

What I won't let my kids say is, "I wish you were dead, or I wish you'd never been born."

Why not?

 

[Dhara]

What I won't let my kids say is, "I wish you were dead, or I wish you'd never been born."

Why not?

Because it's not true. I know how close these kids are to each other.

 

[Ravi]

What I won't let my kids say is, "I wish you were dead, or I wish you'd never been born."

Why not?

Because it's not true. I know how close these kids are to each other.

Of course it probably isn't true except in the moment. The target needs to know that.

 

[Dhara]

What I won't let my kids say is, "I wish you were dead, or I wish you'd never been born."

Why not?

Because it's not true. I know how close these kids are to each other.

Of course it probably isn't true except in the moment. The target needs to know that.

And that's why I correct it in the moment. My kids have already been rejected by bio parents.

 

[pillars]

[I know we've all learned the "correct" attitude toward "hate" is to not have it, and not to say it either.

My feeling is if you accept and love all your feelings, they tend to feel listened to and naturally quiet down.

I don't think there is anything wrong with feeling hate, loathing, etc. at times. However, I'd worry about someone that lived there constantly. However, I do think it's important to separate feeling hate for something someone did from feeling hate for another person.

I agree, it is important to accept your feelings and allow yourself to feel them.

Did you ever read the Dune series of books by Frank Herbert?

When I was really in my feelings after my divorce, I would think about the bene gesserit litany against fear:

LITANY AGAINST FEAR
I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

I used to think about myself facing and feeling my fear, anger or rage or whatever I was feeling, and the idea of letting it pass over and through me, and then letting it go. And once it had passed through me, it was gone, and I was still there.

 

[Dhara]

I love the Litany Against Fear.

 

[D Truth]

I'm very pleased at the amount of discussion this topic has generated.
Here is another twist to the question...

What if some force was applied to whom you must consider a friend?

Say... what if your workplace issued a survey "who is your friend at work"?
Whom at your work would you invite to family events?
Who do you work with that you would leave alone with your kids?
Which co-workers would you let stay in your home indefinitely?

How would you answer such a survey? (The real numbers are extremely low, and this seems to bother employers... I wonder why?)

Bonus questions:
Do you think it is ok for your employer to insist that all your coworkers are "family"?
Do you think it is ok for the government to insist that all your neighbors are "family"?

Ultra hard mode:
"Friends" are a social construct. They are not real.
Any arguments against that simple statement?

 

[Asclepias]

I'm very pleased at the amount of discussion this topic has generated.
Here is another twist to the question...

What if some force was applied to whom you must consider a friend?

Say... what if your workplace issued a survey "who is your friend at work"?
Whom at your work would you invite to family events?
Who do you work with that you would leave alone with your kids?
Which co-workers would you let stay in your home indefinitely?

How would you answer such a survey? (The real numbers are extremely low, and this seems to bother employers... I wonder why?)

Bonus questions:
Do you think it is ok for your employer to insist that all your coworkers are "family"?
Do you think it is ok for the government to insist that all your neighbors are "family"?

Ultra hard mode:
"Friends" are a social construct. They are not real.
Any arguments against that simple statement?

The only time I had a friend that worked with me was when my best friend worked with me at UPS. I think the numbers are low because its inherently a competitive atmosphere under the direction of authority using the stick instead of the carrot in most cases.

They can insist all they want. Doesnt bother me.
Same as above

Yes its a social construct but it is real. Humans would never have survived without it.

 

[oldsoul]

I'm very pleased at the amount of discussion this topic has generated.
Here is another twist to the question...

What if some force was applied to whom you must consider a friend?

Say... what if your workplace issued a survey "who is your friend at work"?
Whom at your work would you invite to family events?
Who do you work with that you would leave alone with your kids?
Which co-workers would you let stay in your home indefinitely?

How would you answer such a survey? (The real numbers are extremely low, and this seems to bother employers... I wonder why?)

Bonus questions:
Do you think it is ok for your employer to insist that all your coworkers are "family"?
Do you think it is ok for the government to insist that all your neighbors are "family"?

Ultra hard mode:
"Friends" are a social construct. They are not real.
Any arguments against that simple statement?

1-5 I would answer: None. I trust them in the workplace, however, I would not trust any of them beyond that. I simply do not know them well enough to do so.
Bonus questions: No, and No. On what, psychotic, grounds would these demands be based?
Ultra hard mode:
Yes, the concept of a "friend" is a social construct, but it is a very real construction. Imagine, if you will, that someone were to assert that the idea of "family" where not "real". That would be preposterous, it is the same for the idea of "friend".

 

[320 Years of History]

What if some force was applied to whom you must consider a friend?

• I suppose if I were coerced, I'd do what I needed to do. If someone held a gun to my head and bade me to declare you, a total stranger to me, as my friend or be shot, I'd declare you are my friend.
  
  What kind of question is yours above? It strikes me as entirely preposterous. The very ideas of coerced friendship and friendship are antithetical to one another.
  
  The earlier questions that asked about family vs. friends at least made some sense owing to the fact that while one cannot choose one's family, one most certainly can choose one's friends. If one is coerced into a friendship, while over time a genuine friendship may develop, with or without continued coercion, at the outset, the friend status would be in name only. If that's enough to satisfy one's malefactor, well, fine.....

What if your workplace issued a survey "who is your friend at work"?

• What if they did? What do you want to know?

Whom at your work would you invite to family events?

• Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Years dinners: Probably none of them if I'm honest and considering your question in the abstract. Under the right circumstances, any one of them plus their spouse/family members.
  • Foreign colleague is visiting the U.S. during one of those times and will already be in or near my city, sure, I'll invite them to join my family for the day. I may even invite them to stay at my place rather than at a hotel, especially if I already know we have enough in common that they won't bore me to tears nor I they.
  • It comes to my attention that a local colleague won't be able to spend the holiday with their own family. I'd invite them to join me and mine if they'd like to do so. It's something of a "pity invite," but it's still an invitation to a family event and I'm sure they'll have a lovely time.
    
    Thinking a bit more deeply about your question, some of the "embarrassing" traits of some of my family members come to mind, for example, the extent to which my 90+ year old parents may retain some of their racial prejudices. After considering that, however, I am certain that even if the person were an ethnic minority, my "formerly" racist father and somewhat sympathising mother would be charming toward them. Daddy has still some pretty provincial views even though they're not nearly as bad as they once were. At nearly 100, he is who he is, and he really doesn't give a damn what anyone else, including me, has to think or say about it, but at nearly 100, he can be that way. At the end of the day, the man's almost certainly still something of a bigot, but not in any way, now nor ever, a boor; he and Mother are always gracious, even toward folks whom they don't hold in high esteem.
• 4th of July, Labor Day, Memorial Day parties, camping trips, weekends at the beach house or mountain cabin, weekends sailing, etc.
  • Sure, I'd invite a colleague who expressed an interest in participating in one of those events, or if it there's some legitimate business reason that makes doing so convenient for both of us. I can't say whom I'd invite on a regular and recurring basis, but once or twice from time to time, sure why not.
• Wedding, graduation, baptism, etc.
  • There are two colleagues whom I'd invite to those events. One of them had a son at my son's rival school. The other was once our neighbor (for about eight years) and knows my kids, ex wife, a few relatives, and a few of my friends. Those two colleagues are close acquaintances, but I wouldn't call them friends; I wouldn't reach out to them for aid/comfort in a time of emotional need.

I suppose there are other situations that might inspire me to invite a coworker to a family event.
​

Who do you work with that you would leave alone with your kids?

• Pretty much anyone so long as I know them. (I presume you mean "were my kids not grown." I've answered assuming that's the context you have in mind.)

Which co-workers would you let stay in your home indefinitely?

• None of them. If there were call for me to do so at all, there would yet have to an agreed upon time when they'd leave.
  
  The only folks to whom I'd extend that privilege are my kids, their kids (if/when they have any), my parents, a relative whom I know very well, and maybe, just maybe a mentoree whose own parent died, went to prison for life, or something of that sort, and the alternative be that the child become a foster child with strangers or I take them in, or something similarly disadvantageous to the kid's continued development and success.

Do you think it is ok for your employer to insist that all your coworkers are "family"?

• Sure. Why not? I don't have to stay employed there if/when that edict becomes a problem for me.

Do you think it is ok for the government to insist that all your neighbors are "family"?

• That would depend on what definition the gov't stipulates for "family," along with what constraints, privileges/benefits, etc. the government decrees I extend to my neighbors and what I'd get in return. On the face of your hypothetical, and given how I currently conceive what it means to be family, my answer is, "Hell no!"

"Friends" are a social construct. They are not real.
Any arguments against that simple statement?

Sure. Friends and friendship is clearly more than a fictitious construct. I use my house cats as illustrations of that. Two of them are clearly friends, or at least friendly toward one another. They do "stuff" together: play, sleep, eat, prowl/hunt, or give one of the other cats fits when there's no other source of entertainment (LOL). The others get along, but don't deliberately interact unless an external stimulus drives them to do so. For example, all my cats will gang up on a neighbor's cat or stray that ventures into the yard.

If friendship is indeed a social construct, and not more real than that (why someone would think a social construct is "not real" is puzzling) it's one that's pretty deeply ingrained, so much so that it's integral enough to the human experience that while it's not literally palpable, it's salient enough in our psyche that it may as well be.

 

[D Truth]

What if some force was applied to whom you must consider a friend?

• I suppose if I were coerced, I'd do what I needed to do. If someone held a gun to my head and bade me to declare you, a total stranger to me, as my friend or be shot, I'd declare you are my friend.
  
  What kind of question is yours above? It strikes me as entirely preposterous. The very ideas of coerced friendship and friendship are antithetical to one another.
  
  The earlier questions that asked about family vs. friends at least made some sense owing to the fact that while one cannot choose one's family, one most certainly can choose one's friends. If one is coerced into a friendship, while over time a genuine friendship may develop, with or without continued coercion, at the outset, the friend status would be in name only. If that's enough to satisfy one's malefactor, well, fine.....

What if your workplace issued a survey "who is your friend at work"?

• What if they did? What do you want to know?

Whom at your work would you invite to family events?

• Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Years dinners: Probably none of them if I'm honest and considering your question in the abstract. Under the right circumstances, any one of them plus their spouse/family members.
  • Foreign colleague is visiting the U.S. during one of those times and will already be in or near my city, sure, I'll invite them to join my family for the day. I may even invite them to stay at my place rather than at a hotel, especially if I already know we have enough in common that they won't bore me to tears nor I they.
  • It comes to my attention that a local colleague won't be able to spend the holiday with their own family. I'd invite them to join me and mine if they'd like to do so. It's something of a "pity invite," but it's still an invitation to a family event and I'm sure they'll have a lovely time.
    
    Thinking a bit more deeply about your question, some of the "embarrassing" traits of some of my family members come to mind, for example, the extent to which my 90+ year old parents may retain some of their racial prejudices. After considering that, however, I am certain that even if the person were an ethnic minority, my "formerly" racist father and somewhat sympathising mother would be charming toward them. Daddy has still some pretty provincial views even though they're not nearly as bad as they once were. At nearly 100, he is who he is, and he really doesn't give a damn what anyone else, including me, has to think or say about it, but at nearly 100, he can be that way. At the end of the day, the man's almost certainly still something of a bigot, but not in any way, now nor ever, a boor; he and Mother are always gracious, even toward folks whom they don't hold in high esteem.
• 4th of July, Labor Day, Memorial Day parties, camping trips, weekends at the beach house or mountain cabin, weekends sailing, etc.
  • Sure, I'd invite a colleague who expressed an interest in participating in one of those events, or if it there's some legitimate business reason that makes doing so convenient for both of us. I can't say whom I'd invite on a regular and recurring basis, but once or twice from time to time, sure why not.
• Wedding, graduation, baptism, etc.
  • There are two colleagues whom I'd invite to those events. One of them had a son at my son's rival school. The other was once our neighbor (for about eight years) and knows my kids, ex wife, a few relatives, and a few of my friends. Those two colleagues are close acquaintances, but I wouldn't call them friends; I wouldn't reach out to them for aid/comfort in a time of emotional need.

I suppose there are other situations that might inspire me to invite a coworker to a family event.
​

Who do you work with that you would leave alone with your kids?

• Pretty much anyone so long as I know them. (I presume you mean "were my kids not grown." I've answered assuming that's the context you have in mind.)

Which co-workers would you let stay in your home indefinitely?

• None of them. If there were call for me to do so at all, there would yet have to an agreed upon time when they'd leave.
  
  The only folks to whom I'd extend that privilege are my kids, their kids (if/when they have any), my parents, a relative whom I know very well, and maybe, just maybe a mentoree whose own parent died, went to prison for life, or something of that sort, and the alternative be that the child become a foster child with strangers or I take them in, or something similarly disadvantageous to the kid's continued development and success.

Do you think it is ok for your employer to insist that all your coworkers are "family"?

• Sure. Why not? I don't have to stay employed there if/when that edict becomes a problem for me.

Do you think it is ok for the government to insist that all your neighbors are "family"?

• That would depend on what definition the gov't stipulates for "family," along with what constraints, privileges/benefits, etc. the government decrees I extend to my neighbors and what I'd get in return. On the face of your hypothetical, and given how I currently conceive what it means to be family, my answer is, "Hell no!"

"Friends" are a social construct. They are not real.
Any arguments against that simple statement?

Sure. Friends and friendship is clearly more than a fictitious construct. I use my house cats as illustrations of that. Two of them are clearly friends, or at least friendly toward one another. They do "stuff" together: play, sleep, eat, prowl/hunt, or give one of the other cats fits when there's no other source of entertainment (LOL). The others get along, but don't deliberately interact unless an external stimulus drives them to do so. For example, all my cats will gang up on a neighbor's cat or stray that ventures into the yard.

If friendship is indeed a social construct, and not more real than that (why someone would think a social construct is "not real" is puzzling) it's one that's pretty deeply ingrained, so much so that it's integral enough to the human experience that while it's not literally palpable, it's salient enough in our psyche that it may as well be.

So basically... The only people whom you would let stay with you indefinitely are family. I am happy to hear that you realize the distinction between the biologically real "family" and the make believe social construct of "friend".

What if work/government told you... "hey so and so needs a place to stay tonight.. mmaybe a week... mmmaybe a month" I'm guessing you might have a problem with that?
What if so and so was a "refugee", or "military". I mean you support the troops right? So you should open up your home, let them stay there for awhile? It is for the good of the company/country right?

 

[320 Years of History]

What if work/government told you... "hey so and so needs a place to stay tonight.. mmaybe a week... mmmaybe a month" I'm guessing you might have a problem with that?
What if so and so was a "refugee", or "military". I mean you support the troops right? So you should open up your home, let them stay there for awhile? It is for the good of the company/country right?

If it truly were incumbent upon me to provide "so and so" with lodging, I'd put them up in a hotel room before I let them stay in my home indefinitely.

 

[320 Years of History]

So basically... The only people whom you would let stay with you indefinitely are family. I am happy to hear that you realize the distinction between the biologically real "family" and the make believe social construct of "friend".

That's correct.