What is a Chickenhawk?

[The Gadfly]

You dodged the draft too ass wipe.

I played by the rules.

Responded to my Selective Service notice in Sept 1971 - around my 18th birthday.

Went to an SS office - filled out the forms etc.

Then let the chips fall where they may.

Didnt evade anything - unlike draft-dodger clinton.

Liar, you are a fucking coward who skipped out on Nam and than have the nerve to call the guys who served their asshole cowards, you deserve to get a good punch in the fuckin teeth for such ugly disrespect.

Easy there, HG. I don't like some of his comments and attitudes (and wonder who he's talked to or what he's read to give him some of the ideas he has) but he can't help when he was born, and had he been drafted, or even if he had enlisted, by then the conflict was winding down, and he would likely never have been sent there. He doesn't appear to have burned his draft card, run off to Canada, or tried to get a deferment he wasn't entitled to. He apparently played by the rules, and fate handed him a break. I can't hate him for that; and what difference would it make if I did? It won't bring back any of those who died, and it won't change the experiences of anyone who was there. What none of us should want is to let what happened in America during Vietnam and since be the model for how we handle our wars now and in the future. We've paid a heavy, bitter price, among those who went and those who did not, for identifying the soldier with the war. Unfortunately, instead of learning that lesson, we seem to be continuing the fight. It's time to stop. It has to start somewhere, and so, before I cross over that last river, I'm going to do my best to let it go; Vietnam is over, and it's time, past time, for the war here at home to end.

As for you, ginscpy, I hope you will stop to appreciate the break life has handed you. But for timing, nothing more, you could have had to make decisions you never had to make; decisions you had to live (or die) with. You have been spared the moral choice of going to war. You have been spared the horror of combat; you have not had to see it, hear it, smell it, taste the fear of it, or live with it ever after. Your life has not been ended, or forever changed. It is OK. I would not wish that burden on you, or anyone else, even though I know others will have to bear it now, and in the future, as I have, as so many have. What we did, we did in part so you and others would not have to; so before you judge, criticize, comment or condemn, I want you to do what I do, when I stand at the graves of my fallen brothers, and wonder whether the life I've lived, after they gave theirs, was worth their sacrifice. I want you to look at your own life, and what you have done with it, then look at us, and honestly reflect on whether what you have done with that break you got was worthy of what we went through. If so, fine; if not, well, you still have time to make it right. That's it; that's all you owe us, the living and the dead; but you do owe that.

 

[Wry Catcher]

What is a Chickenhawk?

Someone who is ready, willing and able to send other people's kids into harms way and has never seen the elephant.

 

[High_Gravity]

I played by the rules.

Responded to my Selective Service notice in Sept 1971 - around my 18th birthday.

Went to an SS office - filled out the forms etc.

Then let the chips fall where they may.

Didnt evade anything - unlike draft-dodger clinton.

Liar, you are a fucking coward who skipped out on Nam and than have the nerve to call the guys who served their asshole cowards, you deserve to get a good punch in the fuckin teeth for such ugly disrespect.

Easy there, HG. I don't like some of his comments and attitudes (and wonder who he's talked to or what he's read to give him some of the ideas he has) but he can't help when he was born, and had he been drafted, or even if he had enlisted, by then the conflict was winding down, and he would likely never have been sent there. He doesn't appear to have burned his draft card, run off to Canada, or tried to get a deferment he wasn't entitled to. He apparently played by the rules, and fate handed him a break. I can't hate him for that; and what difference would it make if I did? It won't bring back any of those who died, and it won't change the experiences of anyone who was there. What none of us should want is to let what happened in America during Vietnam and since be the model for how we handle our wars now and in the future. We've paid a heavy, bitter price, among those who went and those who did not, for identifying the soldier with the war. Unfortunately, instead of learning that lesson, we seem to be continuing the fight. It's time to stop. It has to start somewhere, and so, before I cross over that last river, I'm going to do my best to let it go; Vietnam is over, and it's time, past time, for the war here at home to end.

As for you, ginscpy, I hope you will stop to appreciate the break life has handed you. But for timing, nothing more, you could have had to make decisions you never had to make; decisions you had to live (or die) with. You have been spared the moral choice of going to war. You have been spared the horror of combat; you have not had to see it, hear it, smell it, taste the fear of it, or live with it ever after. Your life has not been ended, or forever changed. It is OK. I would not wish that burden on you, or anyone else, even though I know others will have to bear it now, and in the future, as I have, as so many have. What we did, we did in part so you and others would not have to; so before you judge, criticize, comment or condemn, I want you to do what I do, when I stand at the graves of my fallen brothers, and wonder whether the life I've lived, after they gave theirs, was worth their sacrifice. I want you to look at your own life, and what you have done with it, then look at us, and honestly reflect on whether what you have done with that break you got was worthy of what we went through. If so, fine; if not, well, you still have time to make it right. That's it; that's all you owe us, the living and the dead; but you do owe that.

You have a point Gadfly, but it really burns me when civilians who have never even see a uniform play the role of arm chair General and criticize our Veterans who have actually been there and done it, this guy constantly criticizes our Vietnam veterans and doesn't speak very highly of our newest veterans from the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicst either.

 

[The Gadfly]

Liar, you are a fucking coward who skipped out on Nam and than have the nerve to call the guys who served their asshole cowards, you deserve to get a good punch in the fuckin teeth for such ugly disrespect.

Easy there, HG. I don't like some of his comments and attitudes (and wonder who he's talked to or what he's read to give him some of the ideas he has) but he can't help when he was born, and had he been drafted, or even if he had enlisted, by then the conflict was winding down, and he would likely never have been sent there. He doesn't appear to have burned his draft card, run off to Canada, or tried to get a deferment he wasn't entitled to. He apparently played by the rules, and fate handed him a break. I can't hate him for that; and what difference would it make if I did? It won't bring back any of those who died, and it won't change the experiences of anyone who was there. What none of us should want is to let what happened in America during Vietnam and since be the model for how we handle our wars now and in the future. We've paid a heavy, bitter price, among those who went and those who did not, for identifying the soldier with the war. Unfortunately, instead of learning that lesson, we seem to be continuing the fight. It's time to stop. It has to start somewhere, and so, before I cross over that last river, I'm going to do my best to let it go; Vietnam is over, and it's time, past time, for the war here at home to end.

As for you, ginscpy, I hope you will stop to appreciate the break life has handed you. But for timing, nothing more, you could have had to make decisions you never had to make; decisions you had to live (or die) with. You have been spared the moral choice of going to war. You have been spared the horror of combat; you have not had to see it, hear it, smell it, taste the fear of it, or live with it ever after. Your life has not been ended, or forever changed. It is OK. I would not wish that burden on you, or anyone else, even though I know others will have to bear it now, and in the future, as I have, as so many have. What we did, we did in part so you and others would not have to; so before you judge, criticize, comment or condemn, I want you to do what I do, when I stand at the graves of my fallen brothers, and wonder whether the life I've lived, after they gave theirs, was worth their sacrifice. I want you to look at your own life, and what you have done with it, then look at us, and honestly reflect on whether what you have done with that break you got was worthy of what we went through. If so, fine; if not, well, you still have time to make it right. That's it; that's all you owe us, the living and the dead; but you do owe that.

You have a point Gadfly, but it really burns me when civilians who have never even see a uniform play the role of arm chair General and criticize our Veterans who have actually been there and done it, this guy constantly criticizes our Vietnam veterans and doesn't speak very highly of our newest veterans from the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicst either.

I don't care for that, myself; hence my words to him in the second paragraph. I hope he will take those words to heart, and act and speak accordingly in the future. If perhaps he has been more thoughtless than mean-spirited, that just may make a better, wiser man of him. If not, well, there was no harm in trying.....

 

[Truthseeker420]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFGit_tZDqs]Generation Chickenhawk: With The College Republicans - YouTube[/ame]

 

[The Gadfly]

What is a Chickenhawk?

Someone who is ready, willing and able to send other people's kids into harms way and has never seen the elephant.

Well and good; but remember that ANY future Commander-in-Chief may very well face a circumstance where he HAS to be "ready, willing and able" to do that, without having had the benefit of having "seen the elephant" first hand; given the shrinking pool of potential presidential contenders (of any party) who have actually served in combat, I think that may increasingly be more likely than not. What then? Still going to use the epithet? Will it matter?

 

[The Gadfly]

Generation Chickenhawk: With The College Republicans - YouTube

And the beat goes on, and on, and on....... Let me ask you something; how exactly have you been wronged? Do you actually give a rat's rear end about those of us who served in Vietnam, or do you simply want to use our service and our war to take one last, backhanded slap at any partisan opponent of yours who wasn't there? Does it ever occur to you that maybe you are picking at the scabs on OUR wounds when you do that? When all of us are gone, which group of vets do you plan to use next?

 

[ginscpy]

Generation Chickenhawk: With The College Republicans - YouTube

And the beat goes on, and on, and on....... Let me ask you something; how exactly have you been wronged? Do you actually give a rat's rear end about those of us who served in Vietnam, or do you simply want to use our service and our war to take one last, backhanded slap at any partisan opponent of yours who wasn't there? Does it ever occur to you that maybe you are picking at the scabs on OUR wounds when you do that? When all of us are gone, which group of vets do you plan to use next?

Except that I DID fulfill all of my legal obligations.

I got a draftnotice - went to the local Selective Service abdregistered fort hedraft in Sept 1971.

Also did2 jury duties

 

[The Gadfly]

Generation Chickenhawk: With The College Republicans - YouTube

And the beat goes on, and on, and on....... Let me ask you something; how exactly have you been wronged? Do you actually give a rat's rear end about those of us who served in Vietnam, or do you simply want to use our service and our war to take one last, backhanded slap at any partisan opponent of yours who wasn't there? Does it ever occur to you that maybe you are picking at the scabs on OUR wounds when you do that? When all of us are gone, which group of vets do you plan to use next?

Except that I DID fulfill all of my legal obligations.

I got a draftnotice - went to the local Selective Service abdregistered fort hedraft in Sept 1971.

Also did2 jury duties

I wasn't talking to you in that post; I was responding to Truthseeker. I specifically addressed YOU in an earlier post; go back and read that.

 

[ginscpy]

o

 

[High_Gravity]

Generation Chickenhawk: With The College Republicans - YouTube

And the beat goes on, and on, and on....... Let me ask you something; how exactly have you been wronged? Do you actually give a rat's rear end about those of us who served in Vietnam, or do you simply want to use our service and our war to take one last, backhanded slap at any partisan opponent of yours who wasn't there? Does it ever occur to you that maybe you are picking at the scabs on OUR wounds when you do that? When all of us are gone, which group of vets do you plan to use next?

Except that I DID fulfill all of my legal obligations.

I got a draftnotice - went to the local Selective Service abdregistered fort hedraft in Sept 1971.

Also did2 jury duties

Yes because jury duty is the exact same thing as serving your country.

 

[The Gadfly]

And the beat goes on, and on, and on....... Let me ask you something; how exactly have you been wronged? Do you actually give a rat's rear end about those of us who served in Vietnam, or do you simply want to use our service and our war to take one last, backhanded slap at any partisan opponent of yours who wasn't there? Does it ever occur to you that maybe you are picking at the scabs on OUR wounds when you do that? When all of us are gone, which group of vets do you plan to use next?

Except that I DID fulfill all of my legal obligations.

I got a draftnotice - went to the local Selective Service abdregistered fort hedraft in Sept 1971.

Also did2 jury duties

Yes because jury duty is the exact same thing as serving your country.

Well, HG, it IS serving his community, and one has to start somewhere. I want him, and others who have not done military service, to do other things in service to the nation and their communities. I want them to serve when called for jury duty, I want them to vote; I want them to do the little things that make them worthy of the freedom we guarded for them; but more than that, I'd like to see them adopt the same ethos of service we did.

Military service is not for everyone, and combat service is for fewer still, but everyone has some time and talent to contribute to their community, and to this country of ours. Maybe it's working with our youth, mentoring kids at risk, coaching little league, or teaching an adult who never learned to read. Maybe it's helping build homes, for those who have none. Maybe it's volunteering for your local rescue squad, or volunteer fire department. Maybe it's taking meals to the elderly, or just answering the phones for a charity; every one of us, vet or non-vet can do something. Every one of us can be involved and every act great or small, matters. You know, if even half of us did that this country would be far different....and better. There are a number of people,right here on this board, who have mentioned giving something of themselves, to give something back; and thank God for them, but we need more, and most of us are not doing everything they could do; too many don't do anything at all; they leave it to someone else, and when there's no someone else to step up to the plate, they demand that government do it. The plain truth is that government can't do it all; even the most massive government cannot be everything for everybody. I don't like the idea of compulsory universal service; forced charity is a piss-poor substitute for actually giving a damn.

Government isn't doing enough for the poor? Then pitch in, and do something yourself. Government isn't doing enough for vets? Don't bitch and complain; step in and do something yourself. Government can't go visit that old vet on a VA ward, who has no family left to comfort him....but we can. Get the picture? Politics is fine, but politics can't replace individuals putting themselves where the need is. Times are tough? You're hurting, and you've got problems? Well, you don't have to look far to find someone with more and bigger problems than you have. Help them, and you won't have time to feel sorry for yourself. It doesn't have to cost you one red cent, either; if you have money to spare, then give some; but if not, a smile, a kind word, even a few hours of your spare time, cost you exactly .....NOTHING; and may mean more than you will ever know to someone else.

For every hundred people who talk the talk, there's one who walks the walk. Every one of you reading this, I challenge you, to be that one. Who knows; you might start a trend. Remember, a lot of good people have sacrificed, even given their lives, for you to have the life you have, in a country where even the least of us have more opportunity than most of humanity ever have, or will. Don't waste it; do something with it.

 

[High_Gravity]

Except that I DID fulfill all of my legal obligations.

I got a draftnotice - went to the local Selective Service abdregistered fort hedraft in Sept 1971.

Also did2 jury duties

Yes because jury duty is the exact same thing as serving your country.

Well, HG, it IS serving his community, and one has to start somewhere. I want him, and others who have not done military service, to do other things in service to the nation and their communities. I want them to serve when called for jury duty, I want them to vote; I want them to do the little things that make them worthy of the freedom we guarded for them; but more than that, I'd like to see them adopt the same ethos of service we did.

Military service is not for everyone, and combat service is for fewer still, but everyone has some time and talent to contribute to their community, and to this country of ours. Maybe it's working with our youth, mentoring kids at risk, coaching little league, or teaching an adult who never learned to read. Maybe it's helping build homes, for those who have none. Maybe it's volunteering for your local rescue squad, or volunteer fire department. Maybe it's taking meals to the elderly, or just answering the phones for a charity; every one of us, vet or non-vet can do something. Every one of us can be involved and every act great or small, matters. You know, if even half of us did that this country would be far different....and better. There are a number of people,right here on this board, who have mentioned giving something of themselves, to give something back; and thank God for them, but we need more, and most of us are not doing everything they could do; too many don't do anything at all; they leave it to someone else, and when there's no someone else to step up to the plate, they demand that government do it. The plain truth is that government can't do it all; even the most massive government cannot be everything for everybody. I don't like the idea of compulsory universal service; forced charity is a piss-poor substitute for actually giving a damn.

Government isn't doing enough for the poor? Then pitch in, and do something yourself. Government isn't doing enough for vets? Don't bitch and complain; step in and do something yourself. Government can't go visit that old vet on a VA ward, who has no family left to comfort him....but we can. Get the picture? Politics is fine, but politics can't replace individuals putting themselves where the need is. Times are tough? You're hurting, and you've got problems? Well, you don't have to look far to find someone with more and bigger problems than you have. Help them, and you won't have time to feel sorry for yourself. It doesn't have to cost you one red cent, either; if you have money to spare, then give some; but if not, a smile, a kind word, even a few hours of your spare time, cost you exactly .....NOTHING; and may mean more than you will ever know to someone else.

For every hundred people who talk the talk, there's one who walks the walk. Every one of you reading this, I challenge you, to be that one. Who knows; you might start a trend. Remember, a lot of good people have sacrificed, even given their lives, for you to have the life you have, in a country where even the least of us have more opportunity than most of humanity ever have, or will. Don't waste it; do something with it.

You are right bro, Military service is definently not for everyone, I'm not trying to down talk on people who have never served but I'll tell you when a ignorant civilian like ginscpy likes to down talk Veterans and than try to stand with us and say hey I registered for the draft and I did jury duty boy it burns, jury duty is a cake walk compared to my 2 tours to the ME.

 

[Douger]

Chickenhawkougerpedia 2012
An overweight, physically and mentally impaired bird that can't move very fast making it very frightened of fatcats and therefore will do anything the fatcat tells it to do.

 

[The Gadfly]

Chickenhawkougerpedia 2012
An overweight, physically and mentally impaired bird that can't move very fast making it very frightened of fatcats and therefore will do anything the fatcat tells it to do.

Go play in traffic, you waste of oxygen and refugee from responsibility!

 

[Wry Catcher]

What is a Chickenhawk?

Someone who is ready, willing and able to send other people's kids into harms way and has never seen the elephant.

Well and good; but remember that ANY future Commander-in-Chief may very well face a circumstance where he HAS to be "ready, willing and able" to do that, without having had the benefit of having "seen the elephant" first hand; given the shrinking pool of potential presidential contenders (of any party) who have actually served in combat, I think that may increasingly be more likely than not. What then? Still going to use the epithet? Will it matter?

Interesting point. I suspect that those who have not been in combat but have seen the consequences of combat in friends and family have some understanding, though the sounds and smells are not conveyed vicariously.

 

[usmcstinger]

The term is meant to indicate that the person in question is cowardly or hypocritical for personally avoiding combat in the past while advocating that others go to war in the present.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chickenhawk_(politics)e
My favorite is George Will. Although I am Conservative Republican, a Chicken Hawk is a Chicken Hawk, regardless of their political affiliation.

Vietnam War
College and Marital status deferments were BS. Their were many young men who were married and/or dropped out of college to enlist in the Armed Forces.

I avoided the draft during Vietnam. I dropped out of college and enlisted in USMC and served as an Infantry Fire Team Leader in Vietnam 67-68 with 1st Bn 4th Marines. I have no regrets and make no apologies.
I know about a MIT drop out who enlisted in the Marine Corps. Unfortunately, his name is on the Wall in Washington DC.
2/3 of the men who served in Vietnam were volunteers Statistics about the Vietnam War

 

[Sunni Man]

2/3 of the men who served in Vietnam were volunteers Statistics about the Vietnam War

Your linked site is full of B.S.

Vietnam was a disaster and did zip for the defense of America.

It was just a political war for corporate profits.

btw I am a VNV and my high school friend that got drafted with me on the same day from our town has his name on the Wall.

 

[ShotnCut]

Just add coward (and a little ceyanne pepper)