What If You Atheists Are Wrong? Hmmmm...

[JBeukema]

Actually, all Dude is setting up is an appeal to ignorance classic of theistic dishonesty. He's been spending too much time around them, trying to kill his intellect in order to buy onto their delusions. A few month back, he admitted to hang exactly that goal. It was during that smae discussion that he first started to dislike me, after he left the thread in nihilistic depression.

 

[publicprotector]

Man would get along fine without religion in fact religion is the scourge of humanity. Religion has done nothing but control, manipulate and murder man throughout history, has sought to hide knowledge from him to fight against his fellow man. All practices that continue to this present day.

And if the various religions had their way we would be living like peasants existing in a life of fear and hatred.

 

[KittenKoder]

Actually, all Dude is setting up is an appeal to ignorance classic of theistic dishonesty. He's been spending too much time around them, trying to kill his intellect in order to buy onto their delusions. A few month back, he admitted to hang exactly that goal. It was during that smae discussion that he first started to dislike me, after he left the thread in nihilistic depression.

Seriously?

Really, who gives a fuck? You know nothing about Artificial Intelligence and you know it. It's a fascinating field though, but requires a lot of computer programming skill and knowledge of biology, neurology, genetics, physics, and chaos theory.

 

[manifold]

I think you have it bassackwards syd. What you really ought to be concerned about is what if atheists are right? hmmmmmmmmm.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

I don't think belief is really a choice.

I don't choose to be an atheist. I have been convinced by education, and more importantly, experience. For me there is no evidence of a supernatural deity and I haven't experienced anything to lead me to believe so and therefore I do not believe there is one; because I CAN NOT believe there is one. Were Pascal's Wager to convince me to "believe" in Christ as my savior just so I could avoid eternal damnation and live forever in Heaven, it wouldn't be true belief, it would be "afterlife insurance" or "fire insurance". Its simply hedging my bets and not true conviction.

Over the course of my religious debates here on USMB for the last 10 months or so, I've come to learn that for some belief in God isn't a choice. Some believers can't help but believe in God and to choose not to believe would go against their personal experiences, and, more importantly, their convictions. It wouldn't be true disbelief.

I think what bothers people so much is when those of the "other side" of the coin are either self-righteous about it, resort to personal attacks (i.e as in attacks aimed at intelligence a la JBeukema), or leave no room for doubt.

I don't think there is anything wrong about leaving room for revision, and I think that is what bothers atheists the most about religious belief and faith. Atheists, in general, came to their conclusions through reason and empiricism which allows for revision (which categorizes them as agnostic atheists, or in other words people who don't believe in God right now because there isn't conclusive evidence for a supernatural deity). Those with faith leave no doubt that their beliefs may be wrong or at least inaccurate.

That kind of conviction can lead to self-righteousness (e.g. true believers and their perceived righteousness about the evils of homosexuality - were they to doubt their beliefs a little they might think twice before proclaiming an entire group of people evil, indecent, delusional, or suffering from a disorder). That kind of conviction can lead people to blow themselves up killing those who don't believe what's "right" or "true".

All I'm saying is there's nothing wrong with a little healthy skepticism.

 

[Oddball]

Actually, all Dude is setting up is an appeal to ignorance classic of theistic dishonesty. He's been spending too much time around them, trying to kill his intellect in order to buy onto their delusions. A few month back, he admitted to hang exactly that goal. It was during that smae discussion that he first started to dislike me, after he left the thread in nihilistic depression.

Look who's fucking talking...The doofus who had to ask who Ayn Rand was!!!

I started to dislike you not for any for your opinions or thoughts, but your pathological need to express them in a manner that is designed to piss off as many people as possible.

In the biz, this is known as "macho flashing".

The real hell of that is you don't really care....In that respect, you're about as big a horse's ass as tha malignant.

 

[KittenKoder]

I think you have it bassackwards syd. What you really ought to be concerned about is what if atheists are right? hmmmmmmmmm.

That's a scarier thought really. Having life and thought then suddenly ... nothing. *shudder* Hell, I would rather go to hell than to cease to exist completely.

 

[Oddball]

I don't think belief is really a choice.

I don't choose to be an atheist. I have been convinced by education, and more importantly, experience.....

IOW, you made a choice based upon your life's experiences.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

I don't think belief is really a choice.

I don't choose to be an atheist. I have been convinced by education, and more importantly, experience.....

IOW, you made a choice based upon your life's experiences.

Not really. I don't choose to not believe, I simply DON'T believe.

Here's an example of what I mean. I don't choose to not believe that human beings can fly (like Superman, not in airplanes), I simply DON'T believe it because of education and personal experience. There is no evidence that human beings can fly. But, were someone to start flying around like Superman, I wouldn't be able to continue my belief that human beings can't fly. I would simply believe that they can.

 

[Oddball]

Now you're just playing semantics.

You went on a dissemblance of all the intellectual ammunition you used to conclude that you don't believe, but somehow that wasn't a choice?

Did the information just walk up and stuff itself in your head, without your volition?

 

[Phoenix]

That's a scarier thought really. Having life and thought then suddenly ... nothing. *shudder* Hell, I would rather go to hell than to cease to exist completely.

How is that scary? To cease to exist? You wouldn't care because you'd have no conscious knowledge of it. I fail to see how that's bad.

 

[Luissa]

See what most people, non-believers, especially the rabid strain, don't understand is that if genuine Christianity is totally bogus, once we die, we literally have had nothing to lose and, in any case, have lived a beautiful life.

If Christianity did not exist, civilization at this point would probably have died out. Seriously!

Anne Marie

civilization lived a long time without christianity and to say it would have died out with out it is crap. And you can live a beautiful life with out christianity.

 

[KittenKoder]

That's a scarier thought really. Having life and thought then suddenly ... nothing. *shudder* Hell, I would rather go to hell than to cease to exist completely.

How is that scary? To cease to exist? You wouldn't care because you'd have no conscious knowledge of it. I fail to see how that's bad.

Depends ... but the possibility of atheists being right is the only reason I still live.

 

[JBeukema]

That's a scarier thought really. Having life and thought then suddenly ... nothing. *shudder* Hell, I would rather go to hell than to cease to exist completely.

How is that scary? To cease to exist? You wouldn't care because you'd have no conscious knowledge of it. I fail to see how that's bad.

Depends ... but the possibility of atheists being right is the only reason I still live.

So, you'll kill yourself if we convince you there's a god?

 

[Coloradomtnman]

I think you have it bassackwards syd. What you really ought to be concerned about is what if atheists are right? hmmmmmmmmm.

That's a scarier thought really. Having life and thought then suddenly ... nothing. *shudder* Hell, I would rather go to hell than to cease to exist completely.

I think that fear is what drives a lot of people TO believe.

And I think, and perhaps its just me, that what is even scarier than oblivion after one dies is that life has no meaning. In a godless universe, where chance has seemingly wrought reality in the way we experience it today, existence hasn't inherent meaning. If we just happened to form and weren't created, then nothing has given our existence a reason or purpose. Its meaningless. And that has more impact than seems apparent just on the surface and the implications are so complicated that I don't know if I can even articulate it. I think one has to experience fully realizing it to understand what I mean (kinda like a religious experience).

For me that was the biggest emotional issue I had with being unable to believe. I came to learn that one must MAKE meaning of their lives and to give themselves a reason to exist and a purpose for their existence. But it isn't the same as having a creator who I believe has already given life meaning and purpose and that my creator had a reason for creating me and its just up to me to live up to that.

 

[KittenKoder]

How is that scary? To cease to exist? You wouldn't care because you'd have no conscious knowledge of it. I fail to see how that's bad.

Depends ... but the possibility of atheists being right is the only reason I still live.

So, you'll kill yourself if we convince you there's a god?

Why do you insist on behaving like you follow cold logic, such as in this post, yet you get angry whenever others use it when they oppose your views? That's pretty ... um, what's that word ... oh yeah, hypocritical.

 

[JBeukema]

welcome to existentialism, CMM; good to see you got past that nihilistic depression you were in a few months back

 

[JBeukema]

is that a 'yes', kk?

Should I start sending the evangelists over?

 

[Oddball]

For me that was the biggest emotional issue I had with being unable to believe. I came to learn that one must MAKE meaning of their lives and to give themselves a reason to exist and a purpose for their existence. But it isn't the same as having a creator who I believe has already given life meaning and purpose and that my creator had a reason for creating me and its just up to me to live up to that.

What if that's the reason you're here??....What if you chose that??

Who says the existence of a creator (let's leave the Judeo-Christian God out of this for now) is mutually exclusive to the conclusions you've drawn?

 

[KittenKoder]

is that a 'yes', kk?

Should I start sending the evangelists over?

Why do you always run when faced with the ugly truth and resort to nothing but mindless insults which fail to hit their mark every time?