What if Israel Annexes the West Bank and Lets Palestinians Vote

[Coyote]

Why not?

A two state solution, as originally envisioned, is in a zombie state of perpetual propping up by diplomats. It's support has drastically waned among both Palestinians and Israelis.

With a one state solution (Israel + West Bank) - assuming a scenario where ALL residents are offered the opportunity of citizenship up front, the plus side for Palestinians would be the potential of better representation, political stability, assumption of rights guaranteed by citizenship and funding for infrastructure, education, etc. that is in perpetual shortage with their Palestinian leadership.


Here's what happens if Israel annexes the West Bank and lets Palestinians vote

 

[Dogmaphobe]

It is a terrible idea for Israel. They would just end up being the next Lebanon.

Lebanon was formed as the Christian country of the Middle east, and despite the precautions set into place to try to protect that, Muslims simply bred themselves into a position of dominance and the country has suffered. Beirut was called the Paris of the middle east when I was young, but now it is just another Islamic shit hole.

Jewish Israelis are fooling themselves if they don't understand the same thing will happen to them as happened to the Lebanese Christians. Within a generation or two they would be a persecuted minority.

 

[SmokeALib]

Jews and Arabs will be fighting until the end of time. There can be no compromise. One will have to take over the other.

 

[Coyote]

It is a terrible idea for Israel. They would just end up being the next Lebanon.

Lebanon was formed as the Christian country of the Middle east, and despite the precautions set into place to try to protect that, Muslims simply bred themselves into a position of dominance and the country has suffered. Beirut was called the Paris of the middle east when I was young, but now it is just another Islamic shit hole.

Jewish Israelis are fooling themselves if they don't understand the same thing will happen to them as happened to the Lebanese Christians. Within a generation or two they would be a persecuted minority.

Well, IS the Palestinian birthrate that high? Birth rates typically drop with education, economic stability, and security. People don't need to worry about having lots of kids to survive and instead invest more heavily in a few because more educational opportunities are now available and they cost.

According to this article - Jewish birthrates are outpacing Muslim ones. Israel's Demographic Miracle

I would guess that with a unifying of the landscape - birthrates will likely drop with opportunities as they do in other parts of the world.

 

[Coyote]

Jews and Arabs will be fighting until the end of time. There can be no compromise. One will have to take over the other.

They didn't fight that much prior to Israel being created - why wouldn't they stop again?

 

[SmokeALib]

Jews and Arabs will be fighting until the end of time. There can be no compromise. One will have to take over the other.

They didn't fight that much prior to Israel being created - why wouldn't they stop again?

I would be ok with a lasting peace. I just don't see it.

 

[Coyote]

Jews and Arabs will be fighting until the end of time. There can be no compromise. One will have to take over the other.

They didn't fight that much prior to Israel being created - why wouldn't they stop again?

I would be ok with a lasting peace. I just don't see it.

Maybe not lasting peace but maybe the goal could be better peace then we currently have.

Apparently most Arab Israelis PREFER being Israeli citizens, even though they feel they are discriminated against. They would rather be Israeli than under the Palestinian government.

 

[SmokeALib]

Jews and Arabs will be fighting until the end of time. There can be no compromise. One will have to take over the other.

They didn't fight that much prior to Israel being created - why wouldn't they stop again?

I would be ok with a lasting peace. I just don't see it.

Maybe not lasting peace but maybe the goal could be better peace then we currently have.

Apparently most Arab Israelis PREFER being Israeli citizens, even though they feel they are discriminated against. They would rather be Israeli than under the Palestinian government.

I like where you're going here. If the Palestinian people would rise up against their "government", perhaps an alliance can be had.

 

[Coyote]

Jews and Arabs will be fighting until the end of time. There can be no compromise. One will have to take over the other.

They didn't fight that much prior to Israel being created - why wouldn't they stop again?

I would be ok with a lasting peace. I just don't see it.

Maybe not lasting peace but maybe the goal could be better peace then we currently have.

Apparently most Arab Israelis PREFER being Israeli citizens, even though they feel they are discriminated against. They would rather be Israeli than under the Palestinian government.

I like where you're going here. If the Palestinian people would rise up against their "government", perhaps an alliance can be had.

I'm not sure if rise up is needed - just annexation, citizenship, and then the ability to vote in regular elections for parties of their choice with, hopefully a lot less corruption.

 

[Shusha]

Wait. Why?

How would Israel benefit from this?

 

[Shusha]

I don't think this is a good idea at the moment. Annexing SOME of Area A, yeah for sure. All the large blocs, the Jordan Valley, probably a corridor through from Jerusalem to the Jordan border. But not all of Judea and Samaria.

My concern is that both Hamas and Fatah (and those Arab Palestinians aligned with them) are edging further and further along their extremist views, in both verbal and physical expression, and when called on it are digging in, rather than easing up.

There might be a polarization of the Arab Palestinians between the factions for a reasonable solution to the conflict and those who will push for violent jihad, resulting in a civil conflict for the Palestinians. OR there might be a consolidation of Arab Palestinians against Israel in retaliation for their perceived loss of ... well ...

Either way, Israel is left with Israeli citizens actively terrorizing each other. Not good.

 

[Shusha]

They didn't fight that much prior to Israel being created

A lot of people claim this. So much so, its just accepted as one of those "everybody knows" things. I think we should question it. In particular, I think we should consider how an oppressed minority experiencing repeated pogroms every few years or few decades can be considered to be living in peaceful circumstances.

 

[Indeependent]

Which Arabs live in peace with their neighbors?
This discussion is not reflective of reality.
I wish it were reflective of reality.

 

[rylah]

Why not?

A two state solution, as originally envisioned, is in a zombie state of perpetual propping up by diplomats. It's support has drastically waned among both Palestinians and Israelis.

With a one state solution (Israel + West Bank) - assuming a scenario where ALL residents are offered the opportunity of citizenship up front, the plus side for Palestinians would be the potential of better representation, political stability, assumption of rights guaranteed by citizenship and funding for infrastructure, education, etc. that is in perpetual shortage with their Palestinian leadership.


Here's what happens if Israel annexes the West Bank and lets Palestinians vote

I'm blocked from Haaretz, so I I can't know what's actually written.

And in spite of several false assumptions in this post, like that the 2-state solution didn't already happen with 79% of the territory originally envisioned for Jewish sovereignty already under Arab control, and that if only Hamas and Fatah voters were to get citizenship and vote in Israel, they'd automatically give up their Caliphate goals - I won't be picky.

Because I welcome the realization of the bigger public opinion shift...if already Haaretz influences its readers in these terms, it signs a big shift. Though probably still wrapped in bi-national aspirations, and probably prepared as a poll before the announcement of the US proposition.

In all our conversations about Israeli Sovereignty in Judea Samaria, specifically discussing citizenship, we came to a stall at the point of obligations conditioned upon citizenship.

I raise the same question again - what will be the obligations upon receiving Israeli citizenship?

There's much more than just the basic improvement in quality of life they can get, upon receiving citizenship in ANY developed country compared to their own rule. Much visions and vast projects are already prepared , the TAMA 100 for example, the first National Outline Plan for the entire country with Judea Samaria and the Jordan Valley for development of Greater Jerusalem.
A capital shift of the entire economic infrastructure of the entire country.

Israel on its own is becoming a leading geopolitical partner of the entire region.
Developing into an economic anchor with the potential to recover the natural economic and cultural arteries of the region, as they were functional when the region was the nest of civilization.

There're geopolitical assurances, and to be part of this process takes serious responsibility.
In the meantime all those in opposition to Israel, are becoming an irrationally annoying stick in the wheels of a regional development for the sake of the good of all involved.


(In conclusion)
There needs to be a conclusive defeat of the idea of any Arab state in Judea.
Allegiance to the Jewish nation, is the minimal condition beyond which there's no conversation - and the choices are clear.

Fulfillment of basic civil duties is another basic condition, bringing us back to the same question -
what are the obligations?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Jews and Arabs will be fighting until the end of time. There can be no compromise. One will have to take over the other.

They didn't fight that much prior to Israel being created - why wouldn't they stop again?

I would be ok with a lasting peace. I just don't see it.

Maybe not lasting peace but maybe the goal could be better peace then we currently have.

Apparently most Arab Israelis PREFER being Israeli citizens, even though they feel they are discriminated against. They would rather be Israeli than under the Palestinian government.

Apparently most Arab Israelis PREFER being Israeli citizens,

I have seen these polls before. "Palestinians would rather live in Israel than in Palestine." It sounds like they like Israel.

The question is that would you rather live in a prosperous country where you can at least get a small piece of the pie, or a country that has been trampled to dust with all of its resources stolen and no chance for peace?

As for the Palestinians living in Israel they do not want to move. They are living in their homeland even if it is occupied by Israel.

 

[Indeependent]

Jews and Arabs will be fighting until the end of time. There can be no compromise. One will have to take over the other.

They didn't fight that much prior to Israel being created - why wouldn't they stop again?

I would be ok with a lasting peace. I just don't see it.

Maybe not lasting peace but maybe the goal could be better peace then we currently have.

Apparently most Arab Israelis PREFER being Israeli citizens, even though they feel they are discriminated against. They would rather be Israeli than under the Palestinian government.

Apparently most Arab Israelis PREFER being Israeli citizens,

I have seen these polls before. "Palestinians would rather live in Israel than in Palestine." It sounds like they like Israel.

The question is that would you rather live in a prosperous country where you can at least get a small piece of the pie, or a country that has been trampled to dust with all of its resources stolen and no chance for peace?

As for the Palestinians living in Israel they do not want to move. They are living in their homeland even if it is occupied by Israel.

Who did the trampling?
Gaza has a fully developed infrastucture.

 

[rylah]

Jews and Arabs will be fighting until the end of time. There can be no compromise. One will have to take over the other.

They didn't fight that much prior to Israel being created - why wouldn't they stop again?

Shusha is correct,
I'll only add that the whole Zionist organizations didn't start with pogroms in Russia,
but as a response to the plight of the Jews living in the middle east, specifically in Israel, and the waves of blood libels and Arab pogroms spreading all over the Ottoman Caliphate.

It's a great injustice to shift blame for Arab violence on Israel's independence.

 

[rylah]

Jews and Arabs will be fighting until the end of time. There can be no compromise. One will have to take over the other.

They didn't fight that much prior to Israel being created - why wouldn't they stop again?

I would be ok with a lasting peace. I just don't see it.

Maybe not lasting peace but maybe the goal could be better peace then we currently have.

Apparently most Arab Israelis PREFER being Israeli citizens, even though they feel they are discriminated against. They would rather be Israeli than under the Palestinian government.

Apparently most Arab Israelis PREFER being Israeli citizens,

I have seen these polls before. "Palestinians would rather live in Israel than in Palestine." It sounds like they like Israel.

The question is that would you rather live in a prosperous country where you can at least get a small piece of the pie, or a country that has been trampled to dust with all of its resources stolen and no chance for peace?

As for the Palestinians living in Israel they do not want to move. They are living in their homeland even if it is occupied by Israel.

There's no word for 'peace' in Arabic,
only 'submission'.

If Arabs really joined Israel on its quest for independence, instead of siding with those who envisioned a Genghis Khan massacre, we'd all have villas and enough land to graze our stock by 1967.

However naturally, it takes time, I get it...but eventually - inevitable.
Arabs either submit and share the blessing of Israel, or fight and lose any right in this land.

 

[Hollie]

Jews and Arabs will be fighting until the end of time. There can be no compromise. One will have to take over the other.

They didn't fight that much prior to Israel being created - why wouldn't they stop again?

I would be ok with a lasting peace. I just don't see it.

Maybe not lasting peace but maybe the goal could be better peace then we currently have.

Apparently most Arab Israelis PREFER being Israeli citizens, even though they feel they are discriminated against. They would rather be Israeli than under the Palestinian government.

Apparently most Arab Israelis PREFER being Israeli citizens,

I have seen these polls before. "Palestinians would rather live in Israel than in Palestine." It sounds like they like Israel.

The question is that would you rather live in a prosperous country where you can at least get a small piece of the pie, or a country that has been trampled to dust with all of its resources stolen and no chance for peace?

As for the Palestinians living in Israel they do not want to move. They are living in their homeland even if it is occupied by Israel.

When, exactly, did you become the politburo taking head who speaks on behalf of Arabs-Moslems?


What resources has Israel "stolen" from Arabs-Moslems?

Another of your baseless claims.


When did land controlled by the Ottoman Turks and later controlled by the British Mandate become Arab-Moslem "homeland" occupied by israel?

Another of your baseless claims.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Why not?

A two state solution, as originally envisioned, is in a zombie state of perpetual propping up by diplomats. It's support has drastically waned among both Palestinians and Israelis.

With a one state solution (Israel + West Bank) - assuming a scenario where ALL residents are offered the opportunity of citizenship up front, the plus side for Palestinians would be the potential of better representation, political stability, assumption of rights guaranteed by citizenship and funding for infrastructure, education, etc. that is in perpetual shortage with their Palestinian leadership.


Here's what happens if Israel annexes the West Bank and lets Palestinians vote

I'm blocked from Haaretz, so I I can't know what's actually written.

And in spite of several false assumptions in this post, like that the 2-state solution didn't already happen with 79% of the territory originally envisioned for Jewish sovereignty already under Arab control, and that if only Hamas and Fatah voters were to get citizenship and vote in Israel, they'd automatically give up their Caliphate goals - I won't be picky.

Because I welcome the realization of the bigger public opinion shift...if already Haaretz influences its readers in these terms, it signs a big shift. Though probably still wrapped in bi-national aspirations, and probably prepared as a poll before the announcement of the US proposition.

In all our conversations about Israeli Sovereignty in Judea Samaria, specifically discussing citizenship, we came to a stall at the point of obligations conditioned upon citizenship.

I raise the same question again - what will be the obligations upon receiving Israeli citizenship?

There's much more than just the basic improvement in quality of life they can get, upon receiving citizenship in ANY developed country compared to their own rule. Much visions and vast projects are already prepared , the TAMA 100 for example, the first National Outline Plan for the entire country with Judea Samaria and the Jordan Valley for development of Greater Jerusalem.
A capital shift of the entire economic infrastructure of the entire country.

Israel on its own is becoming a leading geopolitical partner of the entire region.
Developing into an economic anchor with the potential to recover the natural economic and cultural arteries of the region, as they were functional when the region was the nest of civilization.

There're geopolitical assurances, and to be part of this process takes serious responsibility.
In the meantime all those in opposition to Israel, are becoming an irrationally annoying stick in the wheels of a regional development for the sake of the good of all involved.


(In conclusion)
There needs to be a conclusive defeat of the idea of any Arab state in Judea.
Allegiance to the Jewish nation, is the minimal condition beyond which there's no conversation - and the choices are clear.

Fulfillment of basic civil duties is another basic condition, bringing us back to the same question -
what are the obligations?

Why are you blocked from Haaretz?