What if evolution was part of creationism?

[(R)IGHTeous 1]

What if right wingers created "Gawd" because "Gawd did it" is easier than studying?

What if you actually made an attempt @ real argument and actually opened your mind?

 

[SmarterThanHick]

Personally, I dont know why people care so much about it. They are theories how things are done. Great. Unless youve witnessed first hand how the world was created, they are going to remain theories.

Sounds like you don't actually understand the value of a scientific theory. It is not a hunch. Gravity is a theory.

Are you seriously going to determine your faith according to which theory is more popular?

If by popular you mean the theory that has the most evidence and logically makes the most sense, then YES, science should guide understanding. If on the other hand you mean popular to be whatever the most amount of people believe regardless of evidence, I recommend following Christianity.

I dont understand these people who think that if something isn't proved scientifically it doesn't exist or isn't true.

No one thinks that. YOU think other people think that, but they don't. If science doesn't prove something, then the answer is "we don't know." That does not mean "it doesn't exist" or "it isn't true." It means "we don't know."

The theory of evolution doesn't preclude God at all. Those who think it does aren't being honest with themselves or with anyone else here.

No but it does preclude the Judeochristian story of creation taken literally.

 

[geauxtohell]

I don't think so GTH.....It does not go against what little the Bible says on it in 2 chapters of the entire Bible....it does not say they could NOT have evolved in to "their Kind"....and on what a Day is in God's time is unknown....later in the bible it says something like a Day to God is like a thousand years to us.....in other words, a day in God's time, is NOT what we consider a day in our time....this leaves an opening for the 6 days of creation....I think it is foolish for us to presume we understand it all by just 2 simple chapters....the Bible is basically a short story, not an science encyclopedia on how the Earth was made.....at least, this is how I view it.

Yes. I am well aware of St. Paul's caveat.

It begs the larger question; if a day is "to a thousand years to God" then why didn't the powers that be say: "And on the first Millennium...."

I mean, pragmatically speaking, the notion that our earth could be created in 7,000 years is still absurd, but I understand the need to grasp for straws.

However, anything past that 7,000 year mark, requires a non-literal reading of the bible. Which still opens up that can of worms.

 

[geauxtohell]

Personally, I dont know why people care so much about it. They are theories how things are done. Great. Unless youve witnessed first hand how the world was created, they are going to remain theories.

Are you seriously going to determine your faith according to which theory is more popular?

Science didn't give me faith in God. Personal experiences with God have. My own studying has. Why would anything short of more experiences do anything to my faith?

I dont understand these people who think that if something isn't proved scientifically it doesn't exist or isn't true. Why would you limt yourself like that? Especially when most of the great scientists in history are great specifically because they theorized something that wasn't proven scientifically in their age and were shown to be correct.

Science is a tool. And if you want to find the truth you have to acknowledge the strengths and the weaknesses in the tool. We need to look at the assumptions we use. We have to look at what experiments actually show. We need to look at the weaknesses in theories as well as their strengths.

The theory of evolution doesn't preclude God at all. Those who think it does aren't being honest with themselves or with anyone else here.

There is only one way to know God. And that's the way Peter did: Revelation.

I actually agree with this (with some minor nuance).

 

[konradv]

Just throwing this out there to see what you guys think.

What if evolution and creationism were one in the same. What if god really did create life on earth and his plan was for that life to evolve over time.

Is it an interesting idea or am I just treading water here?

I'll include a poll for fun

God created the opportunity for life in the Laws of Chemistry and Physics. If that's creationism, so be it, but that's not how the concept is usually advanced. I believe the only part of Genesis that's true is, "Let there be light", i.e. The Big Bang. The rest is a religious/ethical parable rather than history. Whether God provided a spark of life early in earth's history will never be known scientifically, but was IMO unecessary because of the basic laws of nature put in place billions of years earlier.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

I read the bible and don't see where the bible said God's creations couldn't evolve over time to be different than what they were originally. You have the passage? I dont think believing in evolution would be going against anything in the bible, including those who believe God created everything.

I don't see how you can't believe things do evolve, we have proof after all that species have evolved and changed over time.

It goes against a literal reading of most of the old testament.

Though, I can dig the Christian Apologist argument. However, you have to admit that if you aren't going to read the bible literally, then that opens up a rather large can of worms.

I don't think so GTH.....It does not go against what little the Bible says on it in 2 chapters of the entire Bible....it does not say they could NOT have evolved in to "their Kind"....and on what a Day is in God's time is unknown....later in the bible it says something like a Day to God is like a thousand years to us.....in other words, a day in God's time, is NOT what we consider a day in our time....this leaves an opening for the 6 days of creation....I think it is foolish for us to presume we understand it all by just 2 simple chapters....the Bible is basically a short story, not an science encyclopedia on how the Earth was made.....at least, this is how I view it.

Thanks care

 

[konradv]

Being a Christian I believe the Bible is the word of God. The Bible says in Genesis that God created all living creatures according to it's kind. That means he created each animal including man the way they are now. I have talked to other Christians that believe in micro-evolution, within species, I am not sure on that one.

I read the bible and don't see where the bible said God's creations couldn't evolve over time to be different than what they were originally. You have the passage? I dont think believing in evolution would be going against anything in the bible, including those who believe God created everything.

I don't see how you can't believe things do evolve, we have proof after all that species have evolved and changed over time.

It goes against a literal reading of most of the old testament.

Though, I can dig the Christian Apologist argument. However, you have to admit that if you aren't going to read the bible literally, then that opens up a rather large can of worms.

That can of worms was opened by those who insist on reading it literally. Much of the Bible is allegory and not meant to be read in that way. Indeed that's why the RCC downplays the Bible and why we have such a proliferation of Christian sects, now that everyone has their own interpretation and the concept of wisdom handed down from a priesthood has taken a backseat. There were problems with the text that were evident from the beginning, hence interpretation was reserved for the learned with the thought that unfiltered exposure to the Bible could easily lead to heresy.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Just throwing this out there to see what you guys think.

What if evolution and creationism were one in the same. What if god really did create life on earth and his plan was for that life to evolve over time.

Is it an interesting idea or am I just treading water here?

I'll include a poll for fun

God created the opportunity for life in the Laws of Chemistry and Physics. If that's creationism, so be it, but that's not how the concept is usually advanced. I believe the only part of Genesis that's true is, "Let there be light", i.e. The Big Bang. The rest is a religious/ethical parable rather than history. Whether God provided a spark of life early in earth's history will never be known scientifically, but was IMO unecessary because of the basic laws of nature put in place billions of years earlier.

ok

 

[Cecilie1200]

What if right wingers created "Gawd" because "Gawd did it" is easier than studying?

What if you actually made an attempt @ real argument and actually opened your mind?

His what?

 

[Avatar4321]

The Lord hasn't given me personal revelation concerning the creation of the world. Until He does, I'm more than willing to keep an open mind on how He did it.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The Lord hasn't given me personal revelation concerning the creation of the world. Until He does, I'm more than willing to keep an open mind on how He did it.

I don't much care about the technical nuts and bolts of how He did it. My problem with the theory of evolution has nothing whatsoever to do with my religious beliefs, and everything to do with the fact that it appears to be a religious belief to its adherents. The very idea that they should be expected to prove it instead of giving us what amounts to a half-assed shell game bothers me quite a bit.

As has been said before, Christians don't need evolution to be wrong, but atheists DESPERATELY need it to be true.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Some the smartest people I've ever met in my life essentially believe exactly that idea - and believe that the study of evolution, and genetics, and every other science is, to some extent an act of worship itself.

 

[Eranimus]

adaptation would be more appropriate i think. i think certain animals adapt to their environment so that survival in that certain area is easier, but a fish evolving into a mouse eventually, i don't think so. as you said, i believe that God created all creatures, but some of them change, but they still are very close to their original descendants.

 

[geauxtohell]

Just throwing this out there to see what you guys think.

What if evolution and creationism were one in the same. What if god really did create life on earth and his plan was for that life to evolve over time.

Is it an interesting idea or am I just treading water here?

I'll include a poll for fun

This is not a novel concept. It's the basis of Intelligent Design.

Whether Intelligent Design is true or not is beyond the scope of man to prove (or disprove).

It is beyond any real debate that Intelligent Design is not a scientific theory.

 

[Gadawg73]

The Lord hasn't given me personal revelation concerning the creation of the world. Until He does, I'm more than willing to keep an open mind on how He did it.

I don't much care about the technical nuts and bolts of how He did it. My problem with the theory of evolution has nothing whatsoever to do with my religious beliefs, and everything to do with the fact that it appears to be a religious belief to its adherents. The very idea that they should be expected to prove it instead of giving us what amounts to a half-assed shell game bothers me quite a bit.

As has been said before, Christians don't need evolution to be wrong, but atheists DESPERATELY need it to be true.

Total BS. Your claim that ALL science and biology professors at every university, college and community college teach evolution as fact because "it appears to be a religous belief to its adherents" is absurd. You have no evidence or facts, only BELIEFS.
Beliefs are not science and can not be subjected to the scientific method, if you even know what that is and how that is applied in scientific testing.
NO ONE can disprove my belief in God. NO ONE. Why? Because it IS A BELIEF.
NO ONE can prove my belief in God. NO ONE. Why? Because it IS A BELIEF.
The theory of evolution has been proven by the scientific method and is not a belief. It has passed ALL tests using the scientific method.
NO religous beliefs have EVER passed any tests using the scientific method.
Because they ARE BELIEFS.
I am a Christian, a follower of Jesus and my faith is so strong that the theory of evolution does not affect it all. If anything, it strenghtens it.
How can ANY religous beliefs pass any scientific tests? They vary like the wind changing and are as diverse and different as snow flakes.

 

[Gadawg73]

Just throwing this out there to see what you guys think.

What if evolution and creationism were one in the same. What if god really did create life on earth and his plan was for that life to evolve over time.

Is it an interesting idea or am I just treading water here?

I'll include a poll for fun

This is not a novel concept. It's the basis of Intelligent Design.

Whether Intelligent Design is true or not is beyond the scope of man to prove (or disprove).

It is beyond any real debate that Intelligent Design is not a scientific theory.

ID is creationism refurbished. Read the Cover case and the proof is there.
ID is BELIEF. Beliefs can not be tested.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

The Lord hasn't given me personal revelation concerning the creation of the world. Until He does, I'm more than willing to keep an open mind on how He did it.

I don't much care about the technical nuts and bolts of how He did it. My problem with the theory of evolution has nothing whatsoever to do with my religious beliefs, and everything to do with the fact that it appears to be a religious belief to its adherents. The very idea that they should be expected to prove it instead of giving us what amounts to a half-assed shell game bothers me quite a bit.

As has been said before, Christians don't need evolution to be wrong, but atheists DESPERATELY need it to be true.

Total BS. Your claim that ALL science and biology professors at every university, college and community college teach evolution as fact because "it appears to be a religous belief to its adherents" is absurd. You have no evidence or facts, only BELIEFS.
Beliefs are not science and can not be subjected to the scientific method, if you even know what that is and how that is applied in scientific testing.
NO ONE can disprove my belief in God. NO ONE. Why? Because it IS A BELIEF.
NO ONE can prove my belief in God. NO ONE. Why? Because it IS A BELIEF.
The theory of evolution has been proven by the scientific method and is not a belief. It has passed ALL tests using the scientific method.
NO religous beliefs have EVER passed any tests using the scientific method.
Because they ARE BELIEFS.
I am a Christian, a follower of Jesus and my faith is so strong that the theory of evolution does not affect it all. If anything, it strenghtens it.
How can ANY religous beliefs pass any scientific tests? They vary like the wind changing and are as diverse and different as snow flakes.

Faith and fact are different, but not mutually exclusive. You can search for facts in science and have faith in god.

I don't understand why people don't understand this. Not all scientists are atheists.

 

[geauxtohell]

Just throwing this out there to see what you guys think.

What if evolution and creationism were one in the same. What if god really did create life on earth and his plan was for that life to evolve over time.

Is it an interesting idea or am I just treading water here?

I'll include a poll for fun

This is not a novel concept. It's the basis of Intelligent Design.

Whether Intelligent Design is true or not is beyond the scope of man to prove (or disprove).

It is beyond any real debate that Intelligent Design is not a scientific theory.

ID is creationism refurbished. Read the Cover case and the proof is there.
ID is BELIEF. Beliefs can not be tested.

I agree. I am all too familiar with Dover.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Some the smartest people I've ever met in my life essentially believe exactly that idea - and believe that the study of evolution, and genetics, and every other science is, to some extent an act of worship itself.

i basically feel that way doctor which is what motivated me to make this thread back when i did.

Its also why I made my more recent one that you might like http://www.usmessageboard.com/scien...-question-for-those-who-hate-creationism.html check it out.