What History Says About Obama Policies.

[kwc57]

Gotta love the Conservatives of this country

What they have found is that if you don't like how history portrays you....rewrite History
If current science doesn't support your agenda.....rewrite Science

Pat Monahan once said "You are entitled to your own opinion, you are not entitled to your own facts"

The right wing conservatives scoff at the idea

Can you go through her points one by one and demonstrate where she is wrong?

And the worst mistake of the period was a mistake imposed by Democrats in 1917, admittedly fixed by them in 1933, IE, prohibition.

More than economics, Beer ruled the 1932 election. The worst period of decline was after Roosevelt got elected, and people found out what they had really voted for. Just as was the case in 2008-2009.

Actually, the 66th Congress had both houses held by Republicans who overrode Woodrow Wilson's (Democrat) veto to enact prohibition.

 

[Trajan]

Political Correctness is respect, thats funny.

Obama will be remembered as a Marxist.

What is funny about respecting what other people find offensive?

Do you understand what a Marxist is? Evidently not

because tolerance is one thing, 'respect' is another. you cannot force it, oh well yes you can as we have seen and hows that working out?

 

[mdn2000]

What is funny about respecting what other people find offensive?

Do you understand what a Marxist is? Evidently not

Political correctness, stay focused, now you want to speak of something different, Marxism.

I understand that Che is the Marxist greatest symbol, I also understand Che ordered I child murdered without a trial for stealing a little food to stop his hunger.

Being a student of history you understand that as well or am I to believe you post with no knowledge of Che.

So you go from Marxism to Che? What's next..touting the benefits of a dictator like Fulgencio Batista ?

Go from, the two are one in the same. Batista, hmm, wish to compare Batista to Che, that seems easy, Che murdered a child without a trial, a Cuban, Che is from Argentina, a doctor, seems like the only thing wrong here is Che's Marxism.

You asked about Marxism, I told you a tiny bit, you seem to indicate your not familiar with these facts so you must ask yourself, do you understand what a Marxist is, if you dont recognize Che as a Marxist that is extremely ignorant considering your posts on Marxism.

 

[mdn2000]

LOL. Another dimwit trying to sell everyone on the idea that Fascism, and it's virulent offspring, Nazism, were left wing movements. Righteous, you are a real stupid ass for even trying to rewrite history in that manner.

The Nazi's were not socialist, they were not left wing. Please explain Old Crock, would love to hear this tale.

 

[midcan5]

PoliticalChic has the unusual distinction of wining both the 'Troll Of The Year', and 'Revisionist Of The Last Century' awards this past year. It is hard to follow the bunkum money buys when it wants to control the minds of its citizens. Anyone who has read any history on the National Association of Manufacturers (NAM) realizes the power corporate propaganda has on the impressionable.

The most obvious observation one can gather from Garland Tucker's look back at history is why then did America crash after Coolidge and Hoover? The answer should be obvious to anyone, except an ideologue like Tucker, who works in the financial industry as a CEO and makes millions doing nothing productive. Is that a harsh judgment? Consider that 2008 was similar to 1930 and you wonder if the man has five brain cells. We crashed Garland because of the same hedged bet stupidity that brought us the great depression, only this time FDR and John Maynard Keynes' wise choices taught both Bush and Obama a great lesson and they stabilized the tragedy that could have been, and was after Coolidge/Hoover.

It is hard to counter the mass amount of stupidity put out by the corporate wingnuts, money talks, and when it wants more, it talks louder. But below are a few books for anyone interested in the real story. Oh and why do ideologues not look back at the Reagan/Bush crash and the Clinton/Bush crash? Both parallel the Coolidge/Hoover crash in obvious ways. Why? By the way progressivism as a movement ended in 1914 with the war, and only the great crash brought citizens back to the senses. We are on this ship together; time we learned that.

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Age-Reform-Richard-Hofstadter/dp/0394700953/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8]Amazon.com: The Age of Reform (9780394700953): Richard Hofstadter: Books[/ame]
[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Great-Depression-New-Deal-Introductions/dp/0195326342/ref=sr_1_12?s=books&ie=UTF8]Amazon.com: The Great Depression and the New Deal: A Very Short Introduction (Very Short Introductions) (9780195326345): Eric Rauchway: Books[/ame]
[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Peoples-History-United-States-P-S/dp/0061965588/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8]Amazon.com: A People's History of the United States (P.S.) (9780061965586): Howard Zinn: Books[/ame]


"Paints a vivid picture of how the supposedly rational capitalist system seemed to lose its collective mind, and it has spooky parallels with what we are witnessing now." Fortune [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Great-Crash-1929-Kenneth-Galbraith/dp/B004E3XD9Y/ref=pd_sim_b_2]Amazon.com: The Great Crash 1929: John Kenneth Galbraith: Books[/ame]


If interested in economic bubbles check this out: [ame=http://www.amazon.com/History-Financial-Euphoria-Penguin-business/dp/0140238565/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8]Amazon.com: A Short History of Financial Euphoria (Penguin business) (9780140238563): John Kenneth Galbraith: Books[/ame]


"Corporate propaganda directed outwards, that is, to the public at large, has two main objectives: to identify the free enterprise system in popular consciousness with every cherished value, and to identify interventionist governments and strong unions (the only agencies capable of checking a complete domination of society by corporations) with tyranny, oppression and even subversion. The techniques used to achieve these results are variously called 'public relations', 'corporate communications' and 'economic education'." Alex Carey [ame]http://www.amazon.com/Taking-Risk-Out-Democracy-Communication/dp/0252066162/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8[/ame]

LOL. Another dimwit trying to sell everyone on the idea that Fascism, and it's virulent offspring, Nazism, were left wing movements. Righteous, you are a real stupid ass for even trying to rewrite history in that manner.

The Nazi's were not socialist, they were not left wing. Please explain Old Crock, would love to hear this tail.

Answer is here: http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/84756-where-did-the-word-nazi-come-from-4.html#post1472898

 

[PoliticalChic]

PoliticalChic has the unusual distinction of wining both the 'Troll Of The Year', and 'Revisionist Of The Last Century' awards this past year. It is hard to follow the bunkum money buys when it wants to control the minds of its citizens. Anyone who has read any history on the National Association of Manufacturers (NAM) realizes the power corporate propaganda has on the impressionable.

The most obvious observation one can gather from Garland Tucker's look back at history is why then did America crash after Coolidge and Hoover? The answer should be obvious to anyone, except an ideologue like Tucker, who works in the financial industry as a CEO and makes millions doing nothing productive. Is that a harsh judgment? Consider that 2008 was similar to 1930 and you wonder if the man has five brain cells. We crashed Garland because of the same hedged bet stupidity that brought us the great depression, only this time FDR and John Maynard Keynes' wise choices taught both Bush and Obama a great lesson and they stabilized the tragedy that could have been, and was after Coolidge/Hoover.

It is hard to counter the mass amount of stupidity put out by the corporate wingnuts, money talks, and when it wants more, it talks louder. But below are a few books for anyone interested in the real story. Oh and why do ideologues not look back at the Reagan/Bush crash and the Clinton/Bush crash? Both parallel the Coolidge/Hoover crash in obvious ways. Why? By the way progressivism as a movement ended in 1914 with the war, and only the great crash brought citizens back to the senses. We are on this ship together; time we learned that.

Amazon.com: The Age of Reform (9780394700953): Richard Hofstadter: Books
Amazon.com: The Great Depression and the New Deal: A Very Short Introduction (Very Short Introductions) (9780195326345): Eric Rauchway: Books
Amazon.com: A People's History of the United States (P.S.) (9780061965586): Howard Zinn: Books


"Paints a vivid picture of how the supposedly rational capitalist system seemed to lose its collective mind, and it has spooky parallels with what we are witnessing now." Fortune Amazon.com: The Great Crash 1929: John Kenneth Galbraith: Books


If interested in economic bubbles check this out: Amazon.com: A Short History of Financial Euphoria (Penguin business) (9780140238563): John Kenneth Galbraith: Books


"Corporate propaganda directed outwards, that is, to the public at large, has two main objectives: to identify the free enterprise system in popular consciousness with every cherished value, and to identify interventionist governments and strong unions (the only agencies capable of checking a complete domination of society by corporations) with tyranny, oppression and even subversion. The techniques used to achieve these results are variously called 'public relations', 'corporate communications' and 'economic education'." Alex Carey Amazon.com: Taking the Risk Out of Democracy: Corporate Propaganda versus Freedom and Liberty (History of Communication) (9780252066160): Alex Carey: Books

LOL. Another dimwit trying to sell everyone on the idea that Fascism, and it's virulent offspring, Nazism, were left wing movements. Righteous, you are a real stupid ass for even trying to rewrite history in that manner.

The Nazi's were not socialist, they were not left wing. Please explain Old Crock, would love to hear this tail.

Answer is here: http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/84756-where-did-the-word-nazi-come-from-4.html#post1472898

Tsk, tsk,....what has happened to good friend Middy?

Where is the good natured guy, with the sense of humor...and the civility?

Now, all his posts are chock full of personal invective, and name calling. But, a higher level of name calling, at least.

1. Since Middy has awarded me various titles, I must first admit that I have never used the term 'troll,' at least not outside of reading to the children...so I'll just guess that it means one who has an opposite viewpoint.

Now, let me try my hand at title-awarding: let me give Middy the 'The Poster Most Eviserated by Events.'

I attribute the change in Middy's style, and attitude, to the crash-and-burn of his political hero, the President who turned out to be the empty suit we on the right predicted he would be....in fact, he is merely a chalk outline.

2. Like 80-90% of the Obama supporters, Middy has been unable to man-up and take responsibility for super bad judgement. And apologize.

3. Now it gets worse.
Middy reads history, but can't seem to incorporate its lessons. Instead he whines about revisionism, but is unable to refute the facts:

"Under the eight years of Harding-Coolidge, GNP grew at an average rate of 4½ % per year."

"the 20’s demonstrate the speed with which industrial productivity could transfer luxuries into necessities, and spread them down the class pyramid. The economic tide sweeping the country permeated the lower income sector of the economy. Prosperity was more widespread and more widely distributed than at any time in American history, right up until this point!"

"...Hoover as the start of the New Deal, which FDR continued." This statement was made by none other than the Demcratic Presidential candidate, John W. Davis.


"a. 1920 and 1980 resulted in conservative policies such as lower taxes and less government spending. These would be the polices of Harding, Coolidge, and Reagan. The years immediately following were of growth and prosperity.

b. 1932 saw the liberal policies of FDR, very different from the above. The result: deflation and economic stagnation, and a multi-year extension of the depression."

One can see immediately why Middy or any left winger wedded to the left-wing policies of FDR and President Obama would be chagrined....

I guess that what the old saying 'The hurt dog barks' means.

4. Now, to call me a 'revisionist' isn't so bad, if the meaning is still 'one who corrects and improves a doctrine,' as this is my raison d'etre, but there is the pejorative meaning, that I believe Middy is reaching for, i.e. straying from the truth.

If that is Middy's idea, then he should be able to rebut the above...
instead, he rebounds with the oh-so-porous "why then did America crash after Coolidge and Hoover?"

And so, we have a 'teachable moment'...get a pencil and paper, Middy:
a. Hoover instituted policies very different from those of Coolidge. In fact, Davis commented on them as I wrote in the post.

b. When has prosperity ever been permanent?
Is that the sound of crickets that I hear?
Left you slackjawed, eh?

5. Calling Tucker an ideologue, and "you wonder if the man has five brain cells" falls far short of reasoned debate, or fact-laden rebuttal. In fact, it smacks of a child whose feelings have been hurt....which is exactly the situation.

6. Now for Middy's central mantra: "FDR and John Maynard Keynes' wise choices..."
I'll counter that with fact, and from a left wing source, as well:

a. In 1935, the Brookings Institution (left-leaning) delivered a 900-page report on the New Deal and the National Recovery Administration, concluding that “ on the whole it retarded recovery.”

b. John Maynard Keynes, in a letter published in the NYTimes, December 31, 1933, warned “ even wise and necessary Reform may, in some respects, impede and complicate Recovery. For it will upset the confidence of the business world and weaken their existing motives to action.” Even Keynes saw the danger in treating the nation’s capitalists as an enemy, as “the unscrupulous money changers,” as FDR called them in his first Inaugural.
Betcha' Middy could have written FDR's words, there.

7. For some reason, I suppose Middy needed the support of Old Rocks...a puzzlement in itself, includes a denial that "Fascism, and it's virulent offspring, Nazism, were left wing movements."

Fascism, nazism, progressivism all share the stamp of 'government and the collective are preeminent, as in the following:

"The Germans have a history of embracing authoritarian rule. As the German philosopher Hegel said, “The state says … you must obey …. The state has rights against the individual; its members have obligations, among them that of obeying without protest” (Ralf Dahrendorf, Society and Democracy in Germany).

Wow, could have been written about the Democrats, eh?

Well, I'd best stop beating Midcan like a rented mule, or he may call me more mean name.

Now, write soon, hear?

 

[mdn2000]

Midcan5, thanks for the link, the Fourteen Defining Characteristics of Facism does not address the NAZI's and Socialism/Liberalism. They do show how today's Liberals can be described as Facist Liberals.

PoliticalChic has the unusual distinction of wining both the 'Troll Of The Year', and 'Revisionist Of The Last Century' awards this past year. It is hard to follow the bunkum money buys when it wants to control the minds of its citizens. Anyone who has read any history on the National Association of Manufacturers (NAM) realizes the power corporate propaganda has on the impressionable.

The most obvious observation one can gather from Garland Tucker's look back at history is why then did America crash after Coolidge and Hoover? The answer should be obvious to anyone, except an ideologue like Tucker, who works in the financial industry as a CEO and makes millions doing nothing productive. Is that a harsh judgment? Consider that 2008 was similar to 1930 and you wonder if the man has five brain cells. We crashed Garland because of the same hedged bet stupidity that brought us the great depression, only this time FDR and John Maynard Keynes' wise choices taught both Bush and Obama a great lesson and they stabilized the tragedy that could have been, and was after Coolidge/Hoover.

It is hard to counter the mass amount of stupidity put out by the corporate wingnuts, money talks, and when it wants more, it talks louder. But below are a few books for anyone interested in the real story. Oh and why do ideologues not look back at the Reagan/Bush crash and the Clinton/Bush crash? Both parallel the Coolidge/Hoover crash in obvious ways. Why? By the way progressivism as a movement ended in 1914 with the war, and only the great crash brought citizens back to the senses. We are on this ship together; time we learned that.

Amazon.com: The Age of Reform (9780394700953): Richard Hofstadter: Books
Amazon.com: The Great Depression and the New Deal: A Very Short Introduction (Very Short Introductions) (9780195326345): Eric Rauchway: Books
Amazon.com: A People's History of the United States (P.S.) (9780061965586): Howard Zinn: Books


"Paints a vivid picture of how the supposedly rational capitalist system seemed to lose its collective mind, and it has spooky parallels with what we are witnessing now." Fortune Amazon.com: The Great Crash 1929: John Kenneth Galbraith: Books


If interested in economic bubbles check this out: Amazon.com: A Short History of Financial Euphoria (Penguin business) (9780140238563): John Kenneth Galbraith: Books


"Corporate propaganda directed outwards, that is, to the public at large, has two main objectives: to identify the free enterprise system in popular consciousness with every cherished value, and to identify interventionist governments and strong unions (the only agencies capable of checking a complete domination of society by corporations) with tyranny, oppression and even subversion. The techniques used to achieve these results are variously called 'public relations', 'corporate communications' and 'economic education'." Alex Carey Amazon.com: Taking the Risk Out of Democracy: Corporate Propaganda versus Freedom and Liberty (History of Communication) (9780252066160): Alex Carey: Books

LOL. Another dimwit trying to sell everyone on the idea that Fascism, and it's virulent offspring, Nazism, were left wing movements. Righteous, you are a real stupid ass for even trying to rewrite history in that manner.

The Nazi's were not socialist, they were not left wing. Please explain Old Crock, would love to hear this tail.

Answer is here: http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/84756-where-did-the-word-nazi-come-from-4.html#post1472898

The answer your giving explains that today's Liberal is a Nazi.

*Fourteen Defining Characteristics Of Fascism

Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14 defining characteristics common to each:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs,

I see the Liberals screaming patiroism, the 1st defining characteristic of Facism.

Hillary Rodham Clinton Quotes

Hillary Clinton; • I'm sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and disagree with this administration, somehow you're not patriotic

How about Nancy Pelosi, the leader of the Liberal's until Barack Obama was elected.

http://www.scottspiegel.com/tag/patriotism/

Most importantly, she reminded listeners of the strengths of our uniquely American system of representative democracy, and advised them that there is no higher patriotic calling than standing up for what you believe in: “So I thank all of you who have spoken out for your courage, your point of view, all of it—your advocacy is very American and very important… So let’s not question each other’s patriotism when we have this very honest debate that our country expects and deserves.”

I can go on, I am sure others can retort with similiar quotes to denigrate the point made, still, the point is made, Liberal's are screaming patriotism.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need."

I can think of no bigger example than the Liberals all against removing Saddam from power. Ignoring the human rights of the Iraqi people, that is pure disdain. Of course domestically there are examples as well, Pelosi voting against 95% of her constiuents wil is a good example (of course they forget and re-elect Pelosi).

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

Liberals identify the Conservatives as the enemy all the time, "Vast right wing conspiracy", "Tea baggers", "the Religous right", does anyone need links, just read the threads.

4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread
domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

All in due time, even the Nazis took a few years to get this part going, Obama has only been in power 2 years, so give Liberal-Facism a chance, what was it that the Liberals said about AmeriCorp, they need be as well armed as the Military, sounds like Facism and Hitler, first it was the Brown Shirts I believe. I could link but I have ten more points that are easily made.

5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.

The new Liberal-Facism turns this upside down and persecutes the white caucasion male. We killed during a divorce, homosexuality is shoved down our throat and up our ....., the family is being destroyed, and gender roles are completly reversed, of course this man is attempting to narrowly define facism to exclude any possibility of making the comparison with Liberals such as Obama, the Clintons, and so many Democrats. Facists nations are dominated by tranny that surpresses the rights of a paticular group of people, replace the Jews with the Conservatives or just call the Neo-Conservatives and attack them as Germany and Europe attacked the Jews prior to the rise of Nazi Germany.
Again, links can come, its so easy for somebody to cut and paste someone elses ideology and revisionist perception of history, it takes hours to respond accurately to this.

A tactic of Liberals.

6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

The Liberals easily are demonstrated to have large control over the mass media, even on USMB, you see they will not allow any form of Media to have the last word on Liberalism and how Liberals need the people to percieve history, politics and current events. Again, many links, but seriously, this point is recognized. The Liberal's have endless resources when it comes to getting the Liberal propaganda heard.

7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

Body Scanners and Body Pat downs, not ending the Patriot act but expanding its power and scope. Ever hear the Liberal scream the far right wing Republicans are more dangerous to national security than Saddam ever was. Ever hear critism of Republicans and national security, what do they say about Palin, yes, fear everyone but the Liberal when it comes to our national security. No time now for links, I have spent a couple hours on this, not constant, I have kids I must entertain and coffee to drink so I am taking breaks, I can come back to any point though.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

This is more difficult because of a hundred points that must be made to show this is not as simple as the author makes it seem. Like I said, I see these fourteen points confining Facism into a narrow view so that we cannot associate the Liberals with Facism, its clever and takes time to show this authors error, I am not a scholar or journalist thus I as well as everyone is at a disadvantage, this guy makes a living do this, he got paid and spent hours coming up with the fourteen points, that is the advantage the author has. We must recognize this, the author counts on us not being educated and not having the time to read the history, this is how people come to accept articles such as this, they just dont have the time or are to lazy to address the point.

So, how many of the points and to what degree should the comparison be made and how much proof need be provided that this author is being a propagandist in denying liberals can be associated with facism

9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

Like General Electric, campaingn contributions, MSNBC (GE), and the creation of the Green energy industry. No better example of Liberals and business.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

Labor is suppressed, or in Obama's case, Labor is becoming the Facist side of his government, its already happened in Michigan, for years unless you are union you cannot win government contracts, this suppresses free labor. The dynamics of todays workforce is much different and can be used by a facist leader. Again another point that requires hours of research, that is the beauty of the point. Of course I am not home so I do not have my books behind me, suffice to say, we can draw tie Liberals to this point as well

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.

Again the author is wrong here, Facsist nations tend to control and disdain Intellectuals and Art they disagree with. Facist use Art as well, they use intllectuals, Liberals have much disdain and no tolerance for any other than their ideology. Point 11 has been met by the Liberals, again the time already spent and the time needed to adequately address each point is exactly what works in favor of the Author. If I had a better memory I could address this but again, I am away from home, without books and have spent much time on each point.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

Obama's AmeirCorp and Serve America comes to mind. How Hillary used the FBI against the travel office is an example of civil liberties being abused. Again I can get back to this but at this point to much time has been spent. Liberals meet point 12.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

No time to address in detail, that said, Liberals meet point 13

14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

Florida and John Kerry is a great example.

Kind of scarry how close we really are to losing our Republic, at the hands of Republicans and Democrats alike. Untied we stand, divided we fall. Its that simple.

 

[mdn2000]

Midcan5, How about Howard Zinn. Along with Zinn you must now admit you admire and follow Chomsky, they are one in the same, correct. Chomsky, Zinn, and Marxism, can anyone seperate the three? Howard Zinn you recomeend as reading. Are you aware of the critism that shows Howard Zinn's work to be extremely flawed?

Howard Zinn's Revisionist History Text

We first became aware of Howard Zinn when my eldest son was a junior in high school taking American history. Who is Howard Zinn? He is the author of A People's History of the United States, 1492-Present. This book is the #2 bestseller on the Social History list of Amazon's American History section. First published in 1980, the book has sold over 1.5 million copies, which ironically has made Zinn, one of American capitalism's most vicious critics, quite wealthy.

It is not a bestseller because it has blazed new trails in historical research. In fact, Zinn gives no primary sources in this book. The book intersperses secondary sources, without individual citation, with Zinn's own stream-of-consciousness commentary. It is not a bestseller because it covers history in breadth and/or depth. In fact, it only covers 25 historical events and movements in finite time-spans. Often, in spite of its 680+ pages, we are left to wonder how the story ended.

It is not a bestseller because it best supports one of the traditional approaches to America's story, such as the "Great Man" or "Great Idea" theories. In fact, the book's overarching thesis could best be summarized in this way: "America is not a republic but an empire controlled by white men, but only certain white men, and its heroes are anti-establishment protestors and those in the trenches of class warfare."

This book is a bestseller because it is required reading in most colleges and an increasing number of high schools. Because this is the only book on American history that many students will read, Howard Zinn has become one of the most dangerous men in America. Most insidiously, the power of this man's thinking will only expand, because new versions of his book have come out in comic-book form (which is great for teens who have limited critical reading skills or limited attention spans), as well as a multi-volume set rewritten for upper-elementary and middle-school students.

 

[Foxfyre]

Gotta love the Conservatives of this country

What they have found is that if you don't like how history portrays you....rewrite History
If current science doesn't support your agenda.....rewrite Science

Pat Monahan once said "You are entitled to your own opinion, you are not entitled to your own facts"

The right wing conservatives scoff at the idea

Plus we invented Political Correctness and perfected the Politics of Personal Destruction.

Oh wait, that was you Lefties.

Political correctness is respect for other people, can't be more American than that

Politics of personal destruction????

Sorry, but if political correctness was respect for other people, then it wouldn't be used as a weapon to attack people who hold un-PC opinions. Respect is only allowed for those who are left of center, support the right things, and share the 'correct' point of view.

And the politics of personal destruction is using tactics unrelated to a person's track record or stated concepts or qualifications to destroy that person and make them unelectable or unappointable in the public sector. Like being unable to dispute Sarah Palin's point of view re governance so accuse her choice to have a mentally challenged child or focus on her parenting choices or attack her intellect.

The reverse psychology tactics of that would include diverting the attention from the actual legacy of Obama policies and what history will say about them by accusing the critic of racism or wanting to starve children or throw old people out in the street or doom millions to die because they are denied healthcare.

 

[mdn2000]

Midcan5, Until I hear a response, I will entertain myself by further showing your sources are nothing less than the "Characteristic # 6" Dr. Lawrence Britt is part of controlled mass media, an ex-excutive being used by the Liberal-Fascist to gain power using a sympathetic "Doctor/Executive" to offer supposed unbiased critisim of Bush and Conservatives in general.

6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives.

Yet if I look further I discover this man is not a Doctor at all and the fourteen characteristics of facism are pure politics, I recognized this article as propaganda as I addressed the points. A narrow definition of facsim defined by a Liberal-Facist portrayed as an intellect.

One Nation, Underrated

Fascism and Rumors of Fascism

During the 2004 election cycle, an email chain letter began circulating, attributed to one "Dr. Lawrence Britt, a political scientist," who had apparently written a 14-point article listing the defining characteristics of fascist regimes. There was something to the email, and we'll get to it in a minute, but first let's address a few misconceptions. First of all, there is no "Dr. Lawrence Britt." The author of the 14-point fascism inventory, Laurence Britt, is a former corporate executive who wrote and published a dystopian novel about right-wing extremism, titled June 2004, during the height of the Lewinsky scandal. That is, to the best of my knowledge, his only published volume.

In the real June 2004, he achieved some level of fame with an op-ed published in the humanist magazine Free Inquiry. This op-ed was forwarded around from inbox to inbox, and readers eventually began putting a "Dr." in front of his name and referring to him as a political scientist who had compiled the fascism inventory independently of the Bush administration. He had not done so, and had never claimed to do so. The article was, and had always been intended to be, an argument against the Bush administration.

 

[mdn2000]

The fake Dr. Britt and the Fourteen Chareritics of Facism is the work of a complete idiot. Take this quote of Britt's;

Fascism in America? | International | AltWeeklies.com

World War II went on for six years. On an average day in World War II, 35,000 people died. To equate the War on Terror with the magnitude of that kind of conflict and the amount of hysteria that's generated for political purposes is incredible. Yes, it was a spectacular event. Part of the reason was it was covered by cameras and repeated over and over

What does Britt mean when he states its incredible to compare WW II, I have to ask, who is or was making the comparison. Why would you equate or define or tragic loss of 3,000 people in about 15 minutes as Hysteria. Hell, there should be Hysteria if you want to talk about human nature and our reaction. Of course the police and firemen did not act hysterically, the people who survived, sure some were hysteric but on the whole I would say no hysteria.

Part of the reason it was spectacular was the television coverage. What an asshole. I would not call the death of 3,000 people a spectacular event, it was a tragic attack, it was mass murder, it was an act of war.

Britt is a politcal propagandist who read to much Howard Zinn and Chomsky.

 

[Old Rocks]

LOL. Another dimwit trying to sell everyone on the idea that Fascism, and it's virulent offspring, Nazism, were left wing movements. Righteous, you are a real stupid ass for even trying to rewrite history in that manner.

I'd advise you to back down now sheep.

Your lies, and sad attempts @ revisionism will get you pwned here, just I like destroyed KerryWonOhio, the last brainwashed moonbat who claimed what you did.

Proud to be in such retarded company?

LOL What a ignoramous you truly are.

 

[Foxfyre]

Gotta love the Conservatives of this country

What they have found is that if you don't like how history portrays you....rewrite History
If current science doesn't support your agenda.....rewrite Science

Pat Monahan once said "You are entitled to your own opinion, you are not entitled to your own facts"

The right wing conservatives scoff at the idea

That would be Patrick Moynihan.

The following is the essence of the OP...what, exactly do you find as having been an example of 're-written history.'

"4. Often a national change of political course is justified by an economic emergency. The most recent such emergencies have been in 1920, 1932, 1980 and the current one. It is instructive to review the policies that emerged from each, and the results of those policies.

a. 1920 and 1980 resulted in conservative policies such as lower taxes and less government spending. These would be the polices of Harding, Coolidge, and Reagan. The years immediately following were of growth and prosperity.

b. 1932 saw the liberal policies of FDR, very different from the above. The result: deflation and economic stagnation, and a multi-year extension of the depression."

It seems our leftwing friends cannot distinguish between definitions of 'left' and 'right' as they differ in Europe and in the USA.

It seems our leftwing friends are incapable of discussing the topic or concepts presented in the excellent OP but are practicing their love for the 'politics of personal destruction' by trashing you.

I hope some intelligent and thoughtful members will show up on the thread to discuss the topic as it should be an interesting and important one to all Americans. It should instruct their vote in 2012 as well.

But in response to the basic question posed in the OP, I would say that Pres. Obama has been religiously practicing the policies of Hoover and FDR plus has added his own soft Marxism to the mix while thumbing his nose at any history of policies that produced better results.

And, unless the Left gains control of the entire historical record, the dismal record of liberalism will be reported in honest history books re Obama's policies.

 

[(R)IGHTeous 1]

LOL. Another dimwit trying to sell everyone on the idea that Fascism, and it's virulent offspring, Nazism, were left wing movements. Righteous, you are a real stupid ass for even trying to rewrite history in that manner.

I'd advise you to back down now sheep.

Your lies, and sad attempts @ revisionism will get you pwned here, just I like destroyed KerryWonOhio, the last brainwashed moonbat who claimed what you did.

Proud to be in such retarded company?

LOL What a ignoramous you truly are.

^^^^^^

 

[Foxfyre]

Gotta love the Conservatives of this country

What they have found is that if you don't like how history portrays you....rewrite History
If current science doesn't support your agenda.....rewrite Science

Pat Monahan once said "You are entitled to your own opinion, you are not entitled to your own facts"

The right wing conservatives scoff at the idea

Can you go through her points one by one and demonstrate where she is wrong?

And the worst mistake of the period was a mistake imposed by Democrats in 1917, admittedly fixed by them in 1933, IE, prohibition.

More than economics, Beer ruled the 1932 election. The worst period of decline was after Roosevelt got elected, and people found out what they had really voted for. Just as was the case in 2008-2009.

Actually, the 66th Congress had both houses held by Republicans who overrode Woodrow Wilson's (Democrat) veto to enact prohibition.

Sorry but the 66th Congress, which did have a GOP majority though only barely in the Senate, did NOT enact prohibition. A substantial number of both houses of Congress passed a Constitutional Amendment which was ratified by every state except Rhode Island before it went into effect. The 18th Amendment was not only ratified but was followed by much more substantial GOP representation in Congress for the next several elections, so the people must have pretty much approved what the GOP was doing.

Prohibition was repealed 14 years later with 38 states ratifying, with the 78th Congress having a Democrat majority but again passing in a bipartisan fashion, 1 state (SC) rejecting ratification, and 8 states taking no action one way or the other. And then there are those who say those Southern Democrats of that era became the terrible Republicans of today which muddies the water even more if this is evaluated along party lines.

And this is the problem we have using partisan ideology to evaluate history. Dishonest history will continue to blame Bush and the Republicans for all of Obama's woes. Honest history will judge the legacy of all policy and actions of government that enacted laws and regulation that we live by as well as global economies to arrive at a conclusion for what happens in any given year. And the true results of any legislation passed will be given an open and honest hearing and evaluated on real results, not ideological propaganda.

The circumstances by which we live today were not set into motion in 2000 or 2004 or 2008. The present Congress and Administration can only serve to make things better or worse.

I think Obama and the Democrats will not be judged kindly for their efforts in 2009 and 2010 by honest history.