What Have We Learned?

[auditor0007]

What have we learned in 2 millennia? Not much.

"The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance."
---- Cicero - 55 BC

I agree, I'm sure that will be too confusing to liberals and their economic ideology.

Its pretty basic stuff!

Instead people are racking up more debt then ever, the government is spending way too much money on needless social programs, unemployment is an epidemic, those who never worked ever are entitled to more then the bottom of the barrel working class and the politicians pander it all.

Left wing priorities will destroy this nation.

Let's remember one thing. Republicans have strayed far away from being conservative when it comes to spending. We've been no better than the Dems as of late. If we're going to talk about fiscal responsibility, than we best begin to support those who actually believe in fiscal responsibility and not those who talk the talk but then get elected and do the opposite.

On top of that, conservatives need to worry more about fiscal policy rather than bickering about all the social issues. The social issues turn many fiscal conservatives away from the party because not all fiscal conservatives support those social agendas. The Christian Right is a strong voice in the Republican Party, but they are not the only voice. It's time for fiscal conservatives to take back control of the Republican Party.

 

[DiveCon]

What have we learned in 2 millennia? Not much.

"The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance."
---- Cicero - 55 BC

I agree, I'm sure that will be too confusing to liberals and their economic ideology.

Its pretty basic stuff!

Instead people are racking up more debt then ever, the government is spending way too much money on needless social programs, unemployment is an epidemic, those who never worked ever are entitled to more then the bottom of the barrel working class and the politicians pander it all.

Left wing priorities will destroy this nation.

Let's remember one thing. Republicans have strayed far away from being conservative when it comes to spending. We've been no better than the Dems as of late. If we're going to talk about fiscal responsibility, than we best begin to support those who actually believe in fiscal responsibility and not those who talk the talk but then get elected and do the opposite.

On top of that, conservatives need to worry more about fiscal policy rather than bickering about all the social issues. The social issues turn many fiscal conservatives away from the party because not all fiscal conservatives support those social agendas. The Christian Right is a strong voice in the Republican Party, but they are not the only voice. It's time for fiscal conservatives to take back control of the Republican Party.

exactly
the GOP spending like dems, so people decide to elect dems to spend even more

 

[elvis]

I agree, I'm sure that will be too confusing to liberals and their economic ideology.

Its pretty basic stuff!

Instead people are racking up more debt then ever, the government is spending way too much money on needless social programs, unemployment is an epidemic, those who never worked ever are entitled to more then the bottom of the barrel working class and the politicians pander it all.

Left wing priorities will destroy this nation.

Let's remember one thing. Republicans have strayed far away from being conservative when it comes to spending. We've been no better than the Dems as of late. If we're going to talk about fiscal responsibility, than we best begin to support those who actually believe in fiscal responsibility and not those who talk the talk but then get elected and do the opposite.

On top of that, conservatives need to worry more about fiscal policy rather than bickering about all the social issues. The social issues turn many fiscal conservatives away from the party because not all fiscal conservatives support those social agendas. The Christian Right is a strong voice in the Republican Party, but they are not the only voice. It's time for fiscal conservatives to take back control of the Republican Party.

exactly
the GOP spending like dems, so people decide to elect dems to spend even more

who'd a thunk it?

 

[DiveCon]

Let's remember one thing. Republicans have strayed far away from being conservative when it comes to spending. We've been no better than the Dems as of late. If we're going to talk about fiscal responsibility, than we best begin to support those who actually believe in fiscal responsibility and not those who talk the talk but then get elected and do the opposite.

On top of that, conservatives need to worry more about fiscal policy rather than bickering about all the social issues. The social issues turn many fiscal conservatives away from the party because not all fiscal conservatives support those social agendas. The Christian Right is a strong voice in the Republican Party, but they are not the only voice. It's time for fiscal conservatives to take back control of the Republican Party.

exactly
the GOP spending like dems, so people decide to elect dems to spend even more

who'd a thunk it?

and people laughed at me when i said this would end up being in the trillions
when they passed that first bailout


never should have done that one, or any of the ones that followed
it sent a bad precedent

 

[elvis]

exactly
the GOP spending like dems, so people decide to elect dems to spend even more

who'd a thunk it?

and people laughed at me when i said this would end up being in the trillions
when they passed that first bailout


never should have done that one, or any of the ones that followed
it sent a bad precedent

how many generations are going to have to pay for this?

 

[DiveCon]

who'd a thunk it?

and people laughed at me when i said this would end up being in the trillions
when they passed that first bailout


never should have done that one, or any of the ones that followed
it sent a bad precedent

how many generations are going to have to pay for this?

likely several
and it isnt over yet
and watch, if it doesnt do what they say it will
in a few months they will be saying "this wasnt enough"

 

[elvis]

yeah, sompin confusing all right swope.

REagan.

Bush

apparently you suffered a massive head injury...if you don't know what those bastions of right wing spending did to the national debt.

fool.

Please everyone knows it takes a congress and a president to spend money.

Get over the blame game.

Everyone knows that Reagan and Bush cut taxes for the rich while pushing wasteful defense spending and created 90% of the National Debt.

Then deregulation pushed by Phil Gramm caused the current economic collapse. Meanwhile his buddies on Wall Street got rich and walked away with the hard earned savings of ordinary Americans.

They cut taxes for EVERYONE, you dipshit.

 

[Diuretic]

So, if this doesn't work. then what?

 

[elvis]

So, if this doesn't work. then what?

we're fucked.

 

[DiveCon]

So, if this doesn't work. then what?

we're fucked.

we are already fucked
because this stupidity passed

 

[DiveCon]

So, if this doesn't work. then what?

how about they cut taxes
and stop the pork spending that does nothing

 

[Diuretic]

But if they cut taxes doesn't that mean people will save? And what's needed is spending, not saving?

So, government still has to run and it has to stimulate the economy so cutting taxes, government income, seems to be not very productive.

The pork is interesting. I know we do it but the funny thing is that in our legislature (and I NOT holding ours up as exemplars) someone can't stuff a bill. A bill here is very specific and anything foreign to that bill will get the boot and quick smart. I don't know why that is, I just know it is. Of course plenty of local members and Ministers will funnel off grants and what have you to their local seats, if they can get away with it, but they do tend to get found out. But the ability of US legislators to put irrelevant stuff into a bill is interesting to me.

 

[DiveCon]

But if they cut taxes doesn't that mean people will save? And what's needed is spending, not saving?

So, government still has to run and it has to stimulate the economy so cutting taxes, government income, seems to be not very productive.

The pork is interesting. I know we do it but the funny thing is that in our legislature (and I NOT holding ours up as exemplars) someone can't stuff a bill. A bill here is very specific and anything foreign to that bill will get the boot and quick smart. I don't know why that is, I just know it is. Of course plenty of local members and Ministers will funnel off grants and what have you to their local seats, if they can get away with it, but they do tend to get found out. But the ability of US legislators to put irrelevant stuff into a bill is interesting to me.

i wish they couldnt do that here

and technically, they SHOULDNT be
anything worth doing should be its own bill

 

[mash107]

That government spending is the root cause of all problems. Keynesian economics doesn't work. We've should have learned this lesson in the 1970s with the recession peaking in the early 80s. It doesn't matter how little you tax people directly, if you're just printing or borrowing the difference. Bush had the largest increase in spending in the history of our country, and spending is -always- done at the expense of jobs; we only had a Federal Reserve created (with Alan Greenspan lowering interest rates below market value) bubble to conceal the true problems that lied within the economy.

This spending bill that Obama is forcing down our throats will do nothing more than what Bush has done over the last eight years with his reckless spending -- destroy the private markets and kill jobs. Just as an unemployed person doesn't spend thousands of dollars to remodel his kitchen, why are we spending money when we're absolutely broke? China has told us that if we're printing any more money, they will not continue to lend us any more money to foolishly spend as we've been doing. That means we will soon learn the hard way that we can -not- borrow ourselves to keep our behemoth sized government going. That means we will all lose most of the government's services, including social security and medicare, and we will have to work harder to rebuild our wealth, with a reduced living of standard, simply, all because of government spending. Some change we've elected!

 

[Diuretic]

What's your solution mash?

 

[mash107]

What's your solution mash?

Cut spending that is unconstitutional and that we don't need. We don't need military forces in Korea, Germany or Japan. We can pull completely out of Iraq. Afghanistan can wind down and slowly turn away from a nation building campaign into a counter-intelligence one. As said in our bill of rights, anything not explicitly written in the Constitution as a power for the federal government to have, is a power reserved to the States or its people. Education should be handled by the most local authority. The states should handle highways, energy, and nearly everything else the people desire the state to. The federal government should eliminate all welfare programs (even, as morally questionable as they are, they should be handled by the state), including and especially Social Security. Unemployment won't be an issue with spending drastically lowered, so unemployment welfare is simply unnecessary, but if not, it can be handled by the most local authority, or even the private market. Every type of insurance exists in the private market for unforeseeable disasters, I don't understand why a company like Geico can't provide unemployment insurance. Eliminate the Dept of Energy, Transportation, Commerce (and thereby, all 10000+ regulations that serve only Big Business), Health and Human Services, Education, etc as they perform functions that should not exist or exist only at the State level. Reduce the amount spent on our military drastically. $600B is insane, especially when we can't afford it. We only need a defensive force, as authorized by our Constitution. Eliminate the Federal Reserve, or make it abide by a gold standard, so as to eliminate printing. Inflation in the money supply is a multi-faceted evil.. not only will it cause higher prices for consumers, as their money is worth less, but it also creates bubbles. Eliminating bubbles will make it easier for a poor person to get by, as they won't have to deal with a recession-- as for every credit expansion, there's a credit contraction and job loss.

And then, cut taxes. Really, this time. Bush's smoke screen tax cuts of a ~$100B over 10 years hardly count, compared to the amount we're bailing out with now. We have 40% corporate tax rates, which push jobs overseas. We have 25-35% payroll tax rates, which amount to nothing more than slavery by every working person for a few months a year. Eliminate payroll taxes. Reduce corporate taxes to 10% until we can pay off our debts, and then eliminate it. Use ever so slight tariffs to collect money to keep government functioning, as dictated so by the Constitution. Most of what we'll have to pay is interest, sadly enough, but the benefit is a government more controlled and accountable to the people, as the power lies at the State level, and not the Federal. I call that change we can believe in!

 

[editec]

The New World Order internationalized cash while the people remain serfs of nations.

They're crashing nations, folks.

That was the plan and it worked beautifully since they convinced so many tools out there that the problem was government, instead of the problem was bad government.

Bankrupting American Government and putting tens of millions of American out of work was necessary to make that happen.

Enjoy your government free freedom, folks.

Many of you are about to witness what its like to live in their idea of Libertopia.

 

[mash107]

The New World Order internationalized cash while the people remain serfs of nations.

They're crashing nations, folks.

That was the plan and it worked beautifully since they convinced so many tools out there that the problem was government, instead of the problem was bad government.

Bankrupting American Government and putting tens of millions of American out of work was necessary to make that happen.

Enjoy your government free freedom, folks.

Many of you are about to witness what its like to live in their idea of Libertopia.

That's like saying there's a difference between a dictator and a good dictator. No one should as much power as to control the value of our currency, nor to determine whether one is employed, nor force them to work for the benefit of someone else, no matter how short.

 

[Old Rocks]

What have we learned in 2 millennia? Not much.

"The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance."
---- Cicero - 55 BC

I agree, I'm sure that will be too confusing to liberals and their economic ideology.

Its pretty basic stuff!

Instead people are racking up more debt then ever, the government is spending way too much money on needless social programs, unemployment is an epidemic, those who never worked ever are entitled to more then the bottom of the barrel working class and the politicians pander it all.

Left wing priorities will destroy this nation.

Hey dingbat, who doubled the National Debt in eight years? And who were the pork barrel prima donnas for that eight years? Who went to war on the basis of lies and spent over 4200 lives, and more money than this stimulas for those lies?

You fellows will spend any amount on ill advised military adventures, pork, tax breaks for the very wealthy, but the idea of something for the citizens of the nation is just more than you can bear.

But just sit back and watch. You are no longer in the drivers seat.

 

[Old Rocks]

But if they cut taxes doesn't that mean people will save? And what's needed is spending, not saving?

So, government still has to run and it has to stimulate the economy so cutting taxes, government income, seems to be not very productive.

The pork is interesting. I know we do it but the funny thing is that in our legislature (and I NOT holding ours up as exemplars) someone can't stuff a bill. A bill here is very specific and anything foreign to that bill will get the boot and quick smart. I don't know why that is, I just know it is. Of course plenty of local members and Ministers will funnel off grants and what have you to their local seats, if they can get away with it, but they do tend to get found out. But the ability of US legislators to put irrelevant stuff into a bill is interesting to me.

i wish they couldnt do that here

and technically, they SHOULDNT be
anything worth doing should be its own bill

No, they should not be doing it. However, it was brought to a high art by the Republicans under Bush. More earmarks than ever before in history by a bunch. 31,709 earmarks under Bush.

Now not all of this money was a waste. Often earmarks are a way to get money for special, needed projects in a district. Projects that often aid the whole nation. However, all too often they are just money thrown at something that aids a local business and does little for the rest of the citizens. Kind of like the bridge to nowhere in Alaska.