What Have Our Soldiers Won?

[Bonnie]

by Jack Wakeland
Oct 28, 2005

The good news about the war in Iraq is that it is Islamist militiamen, not American troops, who are taking losses approaching a debilitating rate.
How many of the enemy have we killed? American-led coalition forces have killed more than 15,000 enemy combatants, over 7,000 after the "End of Major Combat." (U.S. forces have accidentally killed about 8,000 Iraqi civilians.)

We have probably killed about 15% to 20% of all those who have taken up arms against us since the guerrilla war started. Another 15% or 20% have been captured, including many top leaders. Coalition forces have killed or captured at least 44 Baathists from the deck of 52, including Saddam Hussein and his two sons. About three quarters of the 10,000 Iraqis incarcerated in coalition-run prisons are insurgents. This includes more than 340 foreign terrorists who vowed to die in jihad, fighting.

The real question about the dead is: has the killing accomplished anything?

Over the past year, the coalition has created and trained Iraqi infantry forces that number more than 150,000. (They're organized and equipped no further than up to the battalion level.) The number is classified, but military observers estimate that slightly more than 100,000 of these soldiers are competent to operate in parallel with American combat forces. The U.S. has also trained and equipped nearly 100,000 security guards and police.

The new Iraqi infantry forces have been used to protect civil government and Iraqi police put in place in dozens of cities and towns throughout the Sunni triangle over the past 13 months. Re-opening cities and re-establishing civil government has brought forth thousands of citizens' reports on the whereabouts of foreign terrorists and local insurgents. A popular Iraqi T.V. show, "Terrorists in the Hands of Justice," profiles suspected terrorists and asks viewers to telephone their hot line with tips. They have received hundreds of calls.

In this process, the insurgency has lost all of its major safe havens. A loose knit coalition of Islamist militias used to control major cities like Fallujah, topple city governments from Ramadi to Mosul at will, and lay ambushes for American convoys throughout the country. We have force them to shrink their operations down to the level of urban terrorism. It has been an unprecedented wave of suicide bombings--at least twice the total number of all past Muslim suicide attacks. But it is a murderous, fighting retreat.

Over the past 13 months, the insurgency has been damaged from Baghdad to Mosul, up and down the Euphrates from Fallujah to the Syrian border, and across the deserts of Anbar Province. It has been damaged to the point that American and Iraqi forces are now beginning to pick up or pick off top terrorist leaders. In the past month the enemy has lost the head of Baghdad's al Qaeda operations, their top financier in Syria, and the head of the Mujahedeen of the Victorious Sect Brigades (one of the largest of the dozen and a half major Iraqi insurgent groups, a group that has been active since June 2003).

The successful invasion of Iraq in 2003 changed the balance of power in the region, emboldening Rafik Hariri and the Lebanese to resist and then (after Hariri's assassination) to push out the Syrian occupation. The failure of the Iraqi insurgency to dislodge the United States has removed the only hope for the survival of Assad's regime. By doing the hard, bloody work American soldiers and Marines are accomplishing our nation's long-term anti-terrorism policy of moving the Arab world towards being a string of peaceful republics.

Before the Army and the Marine Corps arrived in Baghdad, only one Arab country, Morocco, was on the path to representative government. Now Lebanon and Iraq are. And Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and the other oil emirates are taking preliminary steps towards living a more America-centric world.

Although the republic is becoming the accepted norm of Arab politics, the Arab culture is a long way away from accepting liberty. But the anti-American Arab monolith that we faced before September 11 has been broken. Our soldiers have shattered the pseudo-self-esteem of Arab Muslims who used to see themselves as courageous warriors for a grand old civilization that will rise again.

Like a criminal who has run out of easy victims to dominate, Arabs now see themselves as the failures at life that they really are. They're just another group of miserably poor people, limited by tribal tradition and religious superstition, oppressed by tyrants who have flattered them with false claims to greatness. The mirage of the conquering Arab horseman, saber raised gloriously over his head, has been swept away. The Arabs now see it is the people of India, Mexico, Brazil, and Korea who are rising, moving towards greatness, assuming the full stature of modern civilized man, enjoying the bounties of a productive life, becoming happy.

We know that there are policies that would damage Islamism that the Bush administration has not employed. We know that his policy of virtual neutrality towards Iran and the Palestinians contradicts the whole, undermining the powerful force of intimidation we are capable of--an intimidation Syria's dictatorship is feeling at the moment. But criticisms of half measures from the White House ultimately fail to answer the question: is there a cheaper way to fight the war against Islamism? Is there a way to do it that costs fewer lives?

Confronting Islamism and fighting it where it lives is inevitably going to cost more American lives. The only answer to date is that we're learning how to do it with less loss of life. With more successes, we will learn faster. With better policies, we would have a more rapid sequence of successes from which to learn. But quickly or slowly, America is learning how to fight this what is an international criminal conspiracy, a global religious pogrom, a totalitarian plan, a guerilla war, and a stand up conventional war against evil nations.

http://www.tiadaily.com/php-bin/news/showArticle.php?id=1058

 

[archangel]

by Jack Wakeland
Oct 28, 2005



http://www.tiadaily.com/php-bin/news/showArticle.php?id=1058

speaking from a Vietnam era vet's point of view...maybe more politicians on all sides should send their kids on this mission to bolster the espree de core sorta speak...just one mans opinion mind ya! :usa:

 

[Psychoblues]

Really, Bonnie, I have been severely ostrasized for posting an article without an accompaning opinion. In fact, I've been severely ostracized for posting entire articles period. But, I'm a limited one here.

This article speaks pretty much straight up, in my opinion. Jack Wakeland is not one that I typically read and accept as a truth that I might accept. But, he's going in an intelligent direction on this point, don't you agree?

by Jack Wakeland
Oct 28, 2005



http://www.tiadaily.com/php-bin/news/showArticle.php?id=1058

 

[Bonnie]

Really, Bonnie, I have been severely ostrasized for posting an article without an accompaning opinion. In fact, I've been severely ostracized for posting entire articles period. But, I'm a limited one here.

This article speaks pretty much straight up, in my opinion. Jack Wakeland is not one that I typically read and accept as a truth that I might accept. But, he's going in an intelligent direction on this point, don't you agree?

My opinion on wakefield is mixed but yes I think he makes some very good points..

 

[dilloduck]

Every single troop represents an American policy that says that we will no longer sit on our asses and watch evil be allowed to congregate and plan to harm innocent people or civilized life styles. They are gaining valuable experience to pass on to new recuits that will help us if any enemy thinks that this type of warfare will succeed against the US. Sure there is still evil out there and in other countries and why don't we attack them all? Simple--we're not ready but we learn fast. Political pressure or "diplomacy" is far more potent when you have something to back it up with. Our military is now stronger,smarter and more experienced than it was prior to 9/11. If we don't screw them out of a clear victory they will also have some of the highest morale of any military in the world.

 

[Psychoblues]

And your point is what, dilloduck?

Are you accusing vets like gunnyl and me of sitting on our asses and watching evil congregate and plan harm to the rest of us? GunnyL and I sealed our fate, or so we thought, by our enlistments. Are you saying that the US will succeed in this war on concept rather than it's now common nomenclature "War On Terror"? Do you intimate that US objectives, regardless how obscure and unintended or unforeseen, shall or should prevail?

We, The citizens of the United States Of America, have a right to know for what purpose we let blood and sacrifice our population and integrity.

But, maybe you just aren't into all that?

Psychoblues

Every single troop represents an American policy that says that we will no longer sit on our asses and watch evil be allowed to congregate and plan to harm innocent people or civilized life styles. They are gaining valuable experience to pass on to new recuits that will help us if any enemy thinks that this type of warfare will succeed against the US. Sure there is still evil out there and in other countries and why don't we attack them all? Simple--we're not ready but we learn fast. Political pressure or "diplomacy" is far more potent when you have something to back it up with. Our military is now stronger,smarter and more experienced than it was prior to 9/11. If we don't screw them out of a clear victory they will also have some of the highest morale of any military in the world.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

And your point is what, dilloduck?

Are you accusing vets like gunnyl and me of sitting on our asses and watching evil congregate and plan harm to the rest of us? GunnyL and I sealed our fate, or so we thought, by our enlistments. Are you saying that the US will succeed in this war on concept rather than it's now common nomenclature "War On Terror"? Do you intimate that US objectives, regardless how obscure and unintended or unforeseen, shall or should prevail?

We, The citizens of the United States Of America, have a right to know for what purpose we let blood and sacrifice our population and integrity.

But, maybe you just aren't into all that?

Psychoblues

Try reading Gunnies post again. He said "WE" wont sit on "OUR" asses. that doesnt mean you and gunny....

you might think the mission is obscure, but many of us know what it is. The Marines know what it is. The administration knows what it is.

And where in the Constitution does it proclaim "knowing" these things as a legal right?

 

[Psychoblues]

What part of "We" and "Our" do you have a particular problem with?

Psychoblues

Try reading Gunnies post again. He said "WE" wont sit on "OUR" asses. that doesnt mean you and gunny....

you might think the mission is obscure, but many of us know what it is. The Marines know what it is. The administration knows what it is.

And where in the Constitution does it proclaim "knowing" these things as a legal right?

 

[Gunny]

And your point is what, dilloduck?

Are you accusing vets like gunnyl and me of sitting on our asses and watching evil congregate and plan harm to the rest of us? GunnyL and I sealed our fate, or so we thought, by our enlistments. Are you saying that the US will succeed in this war on concept rather than it's now common nomenclature "War On Terror"? Do you intimate that US objectives, regardless how obscure and unintended or unforeseen, shall or should prevail?

We, The citizens of the United States Of America, have a right to know for what purpose we let blood and sacrifice our population and integrity.

But, maybe you just aren't into all that?

Psychoblues

I don't see where dillo said anything of the sort. "We" as a Nation are unwilling to accept a world controlled by terror. Our military is merely a projection of that "We the people."

So "We the people" DO know what our military is fighting for since they are the forward projection of our will.

The majority has voted on you ostriches twice, and twice you have lost. We aren't going to ignore global terrorism as long as the majority puts people in office who represent that sentiment.

However, there was no personal statement made, and I really don't see where you get that.

 

[Psychoblues]

I am unwilling to see a world controlled by terror. No, our military is not an extension or a projection of "We the People". WE, as military men, vow to protect our Constitution while obeying the orders of our Commander In Chief. In this case, our CIC is a freaking imbecile and not worthy or competent of directing military orders.

I fully recognise, whether you do or not, that our military is now trying to exert a force and power that their current CIC was unwilling to do when he was of age and requested to do the same. My will is not to do the will of the Halliburtons and ExxonMobiles (among others) of the world but to protect the values of freedom, justice and equality that I was raised to believe in.

You want World War? You have a lot of enemies on that list. Misunderstanding that calculation will be your fate, not your future.


Psychoblues

I don't see where dillo said anything of the sort. "We" as a Nation are unwilling to accept a world controlled by terror. Our military is merely a projection of that "We the people."

So "We the people" DO know what our military is fighting for since they are the forward projection of our will.

The majority has voted on you ostriches twice, and twice you have lost. We aren't going to ignore global terrorism as long as the majority puts people in office who represent that sentiment.

However, there was no personal statement made, and I really don't see where you get that.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

What part of "We" and "Our" do you have a particular problem with?

Psychoblues

I made a mistake. I meant to say DILLODUCK said "we" and "our",,,and you tried to widdle it down to you and gunny.

I dont have a problem with WE and OUR, you are the one who does.

You dont address my last question,

where does it state in the constitution that we have a right to know what you want to know?

You dont even stick to the debate, you simply use this forum as a method to spout off, even when you quote and supposedly "respond" to that post, you do so in a manner that does not simply, or at all, reply to the subject in the post, but instead you use it as a way of continuing to espouse your hatred for PRESIDENT BUSH, AND AMERICA.

Because you served, does not give you any more authority as to what our President or TROOPS do. That is how it was set up. The writers of the Constitution purposely set it up to put the military in CIVILIAN control.

Your decision to join, or your fate in being drafted gives you no more authority or power to dictate the ways of our military than an 18 year old disabled, blind and deaf person in Alaska's most remote outback. Your continuing to bring it up only waters down any importance it may have, perceived or actual. I doubt this matters to you as discourse and truth have no meaning in your life, but venting, anger, arrogance, self delusion are your fortay. (spelling?)

Responding to you is somewhat futile.

Again, answer the question, where in the CONSTITUTION, does it provide for a "right to know"?

 

[Gunny]

I am unwilling to see a world controlled by terror. No, our military is not an extension or a projection of "We the People". WE, as military men, vow to protect our Constitution while obeying the orders of our Commander In Chief. In this case, our CIC is a freaking imbecile and not worthy or competent of directing military orders.

I fully recognise, whether you do or not, that our military is now trying to exert a force and power that their current CIC was unwilling to do when he was of age and requested to do the same. My will is not to do the will of the Halliburtons and ExxonMobiles (among others) of the world but to protect the values of freedom, justice and equality that I was raised to believe in.

You want World War? You have a lot of enemies on that list. Misunderstanding that calculation will be your fate, not your future.


Psychoblues

You're pretty damned-dense. Supporting and defending the Constitution of the US while obey the orders of CinC, who has sworn to do the same and is the direct representative of the voting public -- "We the People" -- would make the US military just what I said it is. It is the force projection of the will of the majority of US voters.

Nowhere have I said I want world war. I'd be fine-n-dandy if militant Islamists would stick to blowing up each other and not OUR stuff on OUR soil.

I'm not going to take shit off anyone just to avoid inevitable confrontation. Clinton tried that. End result: 9/11. Obviously the "Ostrich Plan" was and is a failure.

 

[pegwinn]

I am unwilling to see a world controlled by terror. Outstanding. There is a common starting point after all then.

No, our military is not an extension or a projection of "We the People". WE, as military men, vow to protect our Constitution while obeying the orders of our Commander In Chief. In this case, our CIC is a freaking imbecile and not worthy or competent of directing military orders. So you advocate mutiny and sedition? Guess that starting point is more elusive than I thought. OBTW, you go to war with the leaders you have, not the ones you want. Glad we didn't have Carter or Clinton.

I fully recognise, whether you do or not, that our military is now trying to exert a force and power that their current CIC was unwilling to do when he was of age and requested to do the same. So, after we change the subject to accommodate this, would you be willing to provide proof of your assertions? The unit punishment book showing the results of a court martial would do. Perhaps a civil proceedings final judgement?


My will is not to do the will of the Halliburtons and ExxonMobiles (among others) of the world but to protect the values of freedom, justice and equality that I was raised to believe in. Outstanding. Your support for what is actually happening in more than one ME nation should be less nuanced if you will. There is lots of good things.

You want World War? You have a lot of enemies on that list. Misunderstanding that calculation will be your fate, not your future. Tis all a matter of will. If we have the will, we can hammer all comers.


Psychoblues

+

 

[Psychoblues]

So far, so good. Maybe we have common ground after all.

Even gunnyl, despite his incessant gunnery sergeant and veteran status, has made an intelligent point here.

Please discuss.

Psychoblues

 

[Hagbard Celine]

...a Brand..new..car!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Psychoblues]

I think you're getting it, but share it. Really,,,,,,Me,,,,,,A BRAND NEW CAR?????????

Psychoblues

...a Brand..new..car!!!!!!!!!!!